Amalur: Destiny and Fate(Kingdoms of Amalur:Reckoning now

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:04 am

Near as anyone can tell, all the employees are out of a job. Probably means no new patches or DLC for any platform.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:44 am

While it may not be related, the DLC for the game is on sale today at Amazon:

The Legend of Dead Kel

The Teeth of Naros

The second DLC didn't get much fanfare, but the one review I read made it sound like it wasn't as well done compared to Kel.

SlapBone · Post by **SlapBone** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:50 am

Even short of a balancing patch, this game needed one good bug patch. I've spent 80 hours in this game and there are some heinous game stoppers still in the game, not to mention the highly bugged inventory.

Oh well, I think I'm going to go get Dragon's Dogma today.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:59 am

I wonder if the core programming team could do a Kickstart for support purposes? I'd hope they could contract out their services, but I'm sure the publishers don't really care since they already have their money and would have no incentive to provide a patch for us.

tripcrow · Post by **tripcrow** » Fri May 25, 2012 11:14 am

Oh well, I think I'm going to go get Dragon's Dogma today.

I picked it up last night and played it for a couple hours. So far so good. With ratings going from 40% to 90% and a mid-70’s average Dragon’s Dogma looks like a love it or hate it. The combat style isn’t what I usually like. But after 60 hours of Diablo 3 Dragon’s Dogma’s combat doesn’t seem all that hectic.

SlapBone · Post by **SlapBone** » Fri May 25, 2012 2:03 pm

Buatha wrote:I wonder if the core programming team could do a Kickstart for support purposes? I'd hope they could contract out their services, but I'm sure the publishers don't really care since they already have their money and would have no incentive to provide a patch for us.

Kickstart? Too bad this game isn't published by a big name publisher or anything. I'll start tithing 10% of my income to Ubisoft before I Kickstart a project published by EA. It's a sad thing that a game as good as KoA can't get just the little support it needs to be completely stable.

I picked it up last night and played it for a couple hours. So far so good. With ratings going from 40% to 90% and a mid-70’s average Dragon’s Dogma looks like a love it or hate it. The combat style isn’t what I usually like. But after 60 hours of Diablo 3 Dragon’s Dogma’s combat doesn’t seem all that hectic.

I only include this game in the conversation because after I saw how great the KoA combat was on PC, I went and bought the game (full price) for my PS3. I've been skeptical about the existence of a KoA patch for weeks now so I was hoping that DD would take the place of KoA for braindead combat for me.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Tue May 29, 2012 11:29 am

http://money.cnn.com/2012/05/28/technol ... /index.htm" target="_blank

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Tue May 29, 2012 12:56 pm

The latest good product, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Electronic Arts spent $200 million to develop plus $80 million for post-launch content and support. Then they spent $50 million on marketing.

Is that true? That's a shockingly high number. With that sort of budget, what sales/subscription numbers would you need just to break even?

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue May 29, 2012 2:23 pm

Buatha wrote:So, should I get the DLC before they get into bankruptcy?

Additionally, they have another DLC available:
The Teeth of Naros

On the plus side, pirates probably aren't having any difficulty finding a copy of the game or DLC's, and as an added bonus, probably don't need to talk to EA for permission for the game to run.

I'm just saying....

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Tue May 29, 2012 2:27 pm

According to Wikipedia:

Although BioWare has not disclosed development costs, industry leaders and financial analysts have estimated it to be between $150 million and $200 million. If accurate, this would make it the most expensive video game ever developed. The game had 1 million subscribers within three days of its launch, making it the world's "Fastest-Growing MMO Ever", compared with rivals such as World of Warcraft.

I think they were charging $50 at release, so there's $50 million right there. I assume they are making at least $7-$10 million per month, so I'd think they are only at the halfway mark on recouping their costs.

I find it odd that 1.2 million units for KoA is not deemed successful.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Tue May 29, 2012 3:43 pm

Buatha wrote: I find it odd that 1.2 million units for KoA is not deemed successful.

Who's deeming that unsuccessful?

For the smaller marketing budget it got (compared to EA releases SWOTR and ME3 that flanked it on the release schedule), it did fantastic for them.

But, revealed today that 38 Studios got no money from EA for sales of the game; rather they got a $35m check from EA as an advance on the publishing deal.

EA owns the publishing rights to the game in the US and will continue to publish it. 38 Studios had a side deal to self-publish to Steam, and that may be their only revenue stream. When the loans to the state officially default, Rhode Island may take over that deal and have it to auction off....or EA may have an option to kill it through Steam, depending on how the contract reads.

silverjon · Post by **silverjon** » Tue May 29, 2012 4:21 pm

One of Arthur Bruno's interviews about Grim Dawn touched on Iron Lore folding for similar reasons. He said small studios see little of the profits from the games they release, and rely on securing funding for their next project to keep going. If they can't get the next advance in time, they have no way to pay their operating costs.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue May 29, 2012 5:02 pm

Chaz wrote:Near as anyone can tell, all the employees are out of a job. Probably means no new patches or DLC for any platform.

What I find odd are statements by the company that they're still holding out hopes for saving the company. If you no longer have any employees, what plausible path is there for saving it? Indeed, is there any company left to save at that point?

I guess some type of financing deal, then trying to hire people back, but seems pretty far fetched.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue May 29, 2012 5:36 pm

triggercut wrote:
Buatha wrote: I find it odd that 1.2 million units for KoA is not deemed successful.
Who's deeming that unsuccessful?

One of the many Globe stories I read mentioned that it needed 2.5 million to break even.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Tue May 29, 2012 5:48 pm

Kraken wrote:
triggercut wrote:
Buatha wrote: I find it odd that 1.2 million units for KoA is not deemed successful.
Who's deeming that unsuccessful?
One of the many Globe stories I read mentioned that it needed 2.5 million to break even.

The MMO needed 2.5m in sales to break even.

Reckoning is not the MMO.

As noted previously: Reckoning did not need any particular sales threshold for 38 Studios; 38 got no money except from Steam sales of the game and did not plan on revenues from the game to pay for Project Copernicus. When 38 signed their publishing deal with EA the publisher cut them a check for $35m in exchange for all sales revenue from Reckoning, which seems to have been a pretty fair deal for both sides on 1.2m in sales.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Tue May 29, 2012 5:53 pm

Also: the MMO "breaks even" on initial sell-through of 2.5m copies....

...but it also "breaks even" on initial sell-through of 1.2m copies (more realistic) and retaining 500,000 subscribers for 10-14months.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Wed May 30, 2012 12:56 am

Some comments from Salvatore:
http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/7 ... -comments/" target="_blank

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Wed May 30, 2012 9:07 am

Buatha wrote:Some comments from Salvatore:
http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/7 ... -comments/" target="_blank

I've worked with them since 2006 on a consulting basis and believed in the project (and still do) - so much so that all of my compensation is on the back end.

Yikes.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:46 am

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/1694 ... Report.php" target="_blank

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:53 pm

Hey all, if some self-pimping is allowed, Tom Chick graciously asked to run a story I'd written on the demise of 38 Studios on the front page at Quarter To Three. Love to have y'all give it a read and share thoughts or questions.

http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2012/0 ... 8-studios/" target="_blank

SlapBone · Post by **SlapBone** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:00 pm

triggercut wrote:Hey all, if some self-pimping is allowed, Tom Chick graciously asked to run a story I'd written on the demise of 38 Studios on the front page at Quarter To Three. Love to have y'all give it a read and share thoughts or questions.

http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2012/0 ... 8-studios/" target="_blank

Great writeup Trig.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:39 pm

Very astute. I've read most of the business coverage in the Globe, but none of those stories had the overall market perspective that you added.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:33 am

Thank you for the article, sir. As you may have noticed, I've been following all of the news items I can find about the situation.

This has been an odd year. Two companies that had gained my respect, Stardock and Kerberos Productions, delivered half-baked games, yet they are still around to work on said incomplete games where 38 Studios/BHG are gone after what most people would call a successful launch of a new IP after four months.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:44 pm

Might need to update the article to include FBI involvement:

Meanwhile, Col. Steven G. O'Donnell, superintendent of the Rhode Island State Police, says that his agency, the FBI, the U.S. Attorney's office and the Rhode Island attorney general "are working together to investigate activities that have recently come to light at 38 Studios."

O'Donnell was referring to a $75-million state-backed loan in 2010 that brought the company to Rhode Island, as well as The Journal's recent disclosure of $8.5 million in loans from Bank RI earlier this year based on state film tax credits that had not yet been issued.

SlapBone · Post by **SlapBone** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:33 pm

Smoove_B wrote:Might need to update the article to include FBI involvement:

Meanwhile, Col. Steven G. O'Donnell, superintendent of the Rhode Island State Police, says that his agency, the FBI, the U.S. Attorney's office and the Rhode Island attorney general "are working together to investigate activities that have recently come to light at 38 Studios."

O'Donnell was referring to a $75-million state-backed loan in 2010 that brought the company to Rhode Island, as well as The Journal's recent disclosure of $8.5 million in loans from Bank RI earlier this year based on state film tax credits that had not yet been issued.

Ouch, 38 was publicly treating those credits as if they hadn't already been leveraged. Like they were going to do something with them in the future. That would explain all of the short notice.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:09 pm

So I am wondering Did Curt blow ALL of his money on this?

If so even more

than ever.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:49 pm

I read that the other day, but didn't realize that was you. Nice. I like.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:34 am

Working on a followup right now. At first I thought it would be a brief update. Damn thing keeps getting bigger and bigger.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:36 am

triggercut wrote:Hey all, if some self-pimping is allowed, Tom Chick graciously asked to run a story I'd written on the demise of 38 Studios on the front page at Quarter To Three. Love to have y'all give it a read and share thoughts or questions.

http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2012/0 ... 8-studios/" target="_blank

Any chance we can get a copy of the article here, or is there some agreement between you and 1/4 2 3?

My work internet no go there.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:12 pm

I don't go there either, so a re-posting would be appreciated by me as well.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:34 pm

Can't do it. OO has specific rules about posting full articles from other sites, and Tom relies on page views for what ad revenue Qt3 generates anyway.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:48 pm

triggercut wrote:Can't do it. OO has specific rules about posting full articles from other sites, and Tom relies on page views for what ad revenue Qt3 generates anyway.

That's true, but I think the issue is copyright ownership. Unless you've given Quartertothree special publishing rights, you own the copyright, not them.

I'm not trying to influence you either way. I'm just explaining WHY OO has these rules. It would be a pretty sad day if we forgot what the purpose of rules are, and just followed them blindly.

That being said, I can understand if you want to maintain good relations with Q23 or whatever. It really is up to you. Legally, unless there is some agreement between you and the website, you can do whatever you want with it, including demanding they take it down.

Just so we're absolutely clear, do what you're comfortable with. I am behind whatever you decide 100%. I just wanted to throw that out there.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:55 pm

In the spirit of this thread, I emailed Curt and asked to borrow a million dollars to purchase QT3.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:59 pm

New article may be going up today.

Bombshells? Oh yeah. We got bombshells. (I don't think I'm going to be on Curt Schilling's Christmas Card list anymore...)

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:01 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
triggercut wrote:Can't do it. OO has specific rules about posting full articles from other sites, and Tom relies on page views for what ad revenue Qt3 generates anyway.
That's true, but I think the issue is copyright ownership. Unless you've given Quartertothree special publishing rights, you own the copyright, not them.

I'm not trying to influence you either way. I'm just explaining WHY OO has these rules. It would be a pretty sad day if we forgot what the purpose of rules are, and just followed them blindly.

That being said, I can understand if you want to maintain good relations with Q23 or whatever. It really is up to you. Legally, unless there is some agreement between you and the website, you can do whatever you want with it, including demanding they take it down.

Just so we're absolutely clear, do what you're comfortable with. I am behind whatever you decide 100%. I just wanted to throw that out there.

Understood. Much of the writing I get to do now is excruciatingly dull technical writing and editing. Tom gives me the opportunity to expand my portfolio a bit, get some eyes on my writing, and maybe allows me to get other more interesting work down the line from other sources. Not biting that hand.

silverjon · Post by **silverjon** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:04 pm

I understand being blocked by work, but I don't understand "I don't go there either" as a reason for requesting a re-post here.

Even if you avoid Qt3's forums, viewing an article on the domain doesn't take you anywhere near the forums. So unless you're boycotting the Qt3 domain to keep Tom from getting page-view ad money... ?

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:05 pm

silverjon wrote:So unless you're boycotting the Qt3 domain to keep Tom from getting page-view ad money... ?

I don't know for sure, but I believe that to be the case.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:10 pm

Sounds good.

silverjon · Post by **silverjon** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:16 pm

triggercut wrote:
silverjon wrote:So unless you're boycotting the Qt3 domain to keep Tom from getting page-view ad money... ?
I don't know for sure, but I believe that to be the case.

Ok, no need to go into the subject here then, except to say that if you take an ideological stand like that, then you have to accept the sacrifices that come with it.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:38 pm

silverjon wrote:I understand being blocked by work, but I don't understand "I don't go there either" as a reason for requesting a re-post here.

Even if you avoid Qt3's forums, viewing an article on the domain doesn't take you anywhere near the forums. So unless you're boycotting the Qt3 domain to keep Tom from getting page-view ad money... ?

Absolutely. No way am I giving him any page views. TC you are certainly free to do as you wish, but I don't recall any TOS that says that Tom owns anything you publish there.

Not a big deal, but I'm always interested in your point of view TC.