The Empire Strikes Back - Empire Victory

[Isgrimnur]

It reminds me of the live action WW game where we elected the Village Idiot to Mayor. Mayor is overt, decided on by the village, and gets the second vote, where the VI has to vote to lynch, regardless of target.

We held a vote of no confidence and stripped him of his office, but it was still pretty funny.

[LordMortis]

Wierd that I have the overvote, and they're confident that they don't kill me at night. Betcha I'm greedo's target for their endgame.

Because you are no threat. They'd rather take a blind chance at hitting someone with a troublesome power than bother taking out the one confirmed rebel we have.

I can't see that. Though I can see them taunting us up until they don't feel they have the game in hand.

So the first question for me is what to do with RMC. His claim is pretty close to mine. It's not something you're likely to come out and say because it's a damming role.

If RMC was going to be converted, it would have been last night. There's no point in not converting. So pretty much we should make a choice to let him live for the rest of the game and concede him as imperial victory or decide to kill him now. And honestly the same sort of consideration should happen for me.

I'm stuck on RMC and I'm inclined to say "fuck it" and let him live (which is contrary to chaosraven's claim and Remus's... whatever it was he went off on for me saying I don't think RMC has to die) but my instincts are crappy.

Barring that, I don't know. Absent players that are still alive? The killing of the first present player? My gut says Theo or Remus but I still can't tell if Theo is Theo or if he's playing the Theo character.

And funny enough I dreamt about dogs last night and about the alpha role in packs and how people train dogs based on this. I didn't dream about frisbees though.

[Remus West]

Some times I wonder why that Frisbee looks like it is getting bigger. Then it hits me.

[Newcastle]

el guapo? seriously? strange. W/ Q & Elg gone there went two of my big suspects (along w/ unagi who am sure is el ringoleader...).

The only definte thing i can say I'd vote Unagi in a heartbeat. Everything else, I need time to digest this hulking piece of thread.

[Lassr]

So the first question for me is what to do with RMC. His claim is pretty close to mine. It's not something you're likely to come out and say because it's a damming role.

If RMC was going to be converted, it would have been last night. There's no point in not converting. So pretty much we should make a choice to let him live for the rest of the game and concede him as imperial victory or decide to kill him now. And honestly the same sort of consideration should happen for me.

These are legitimate questions. Do we want to possibly kill rebels/citizens because they could be Empire? Do we want to believe RMC and you and worry with the others? I'm inclined to try and find an imperial in the other group right now. But I can't help but to come back to the last Star Wars game and the Mara Jade incident.

[Mr Bubbles]

Wierd that I have the overvote, and they're confident that they don't kill me at night. Betcha I'm greedo's target for their endgame.

Because you are no threat. They'd rather take a blind chance at hitting someone with a troublesome power than bother taking out the one confirmed rebel we have.

Probably hoping Purge partakes in a bit of Remuscide.

[Remus West]

So the first question for me is what to do with RMC. His claim is pretty close to mine. It's not something you're likely to come out and say because it's a damming role.

If RMC was going to be converted, it would have been last night. There's no point in not converting. So pretty much we should make a choice to let him live for the rest of the game and concede him as imperial victory or decide to kill him now. And honestly the same sort of consideration should happen for me.

These are legitimate questions. Do we want to possibly kill rebels/citizens because they could be Empire? Do we want to believe RMC and you and worry with the others? I'm inclined to try and find an imperial in the other group right now. But I can't help but to come back to the last Star Wars game and the Mara Jade incident.

[bb2112]

Day 6 Vote

1. Isgrimnur ---------------> bb2112, Theohall
2. RMC --------------------->
3. Lassr -------------------->
4. Mr. Bubbles ------------->
5. Coopasonic ------------->
6. Chaosraven ------------->
7. Remus West ------------>
8. Scoop20906 ------------>
9. Theohall ----------------> Remus West
10. Tru1cy ----------------->
11. Purge ------------------>
12. Lord Mortis ----------->
13. Unagi ------------------>
14. Newcastle ------------->
15. Warpig ---------------->
16. Lagom Lite ----------->

1 Remus West <------------------- Theohall
1 Theohall <------------------------ Isgrimnur

No Votes:

Everyone Else

Majority is 9

Dead
Day 1 <------------ Stessier - Syringed
Night 1 <---------- Redrun - Garroted
Night 2 <---------- Jow - Injected
Day 3 <------------ Grundbegriff - Blasted
Night 3 <---------- Triggercut - Nailed
Night 4 <---------- Qantaga - Knifed
Day 5 <------------- Austin - Needled
Night 5 <----------- El Guapo - Strangled

Deadline is June 11th 9PM Eastern

Day: All day actions happen first come first served
Count Dooku: Who will receive your secret vote for a lynch today?
Yoda: Who will receive your secret vote for a lynch today?
Darth Maul: Who will you take with you to the afterlife?
Boba Fett: Who will you protect from the lynch?
Admiral Ackbar: Will you public declare?
Rukh: Who will you assassinate?
Boba Fett: If your scan reveals a Rebel, will you kill the Rebel?
Greedo: Who will you shoot?
Leia Organa: Who will you stun?
Vader: Who will you choke to death?
R2D2: Who will receive your 3 secret votes for a lynch?
C3PO: Will you ask the Mod through PM what role started in the game?
Chewbacca: Who's arms will you tear off?
Han Solo: Will you initiate a block? If so on who?
Grand Admiral Thrawn: Get’s Rebel or Citizen if there is a successful lynch of a Rebel or Citizen.

Anytime:
Rukh: If you have identified Thrawn, you may interrupt any kill on Thrawn and sacrifice yourself instead.
Cad Bane: Name the player you want to disable.
Admiral Ackbar: Did you meet your secret agenda? If so PM the Mod.

[LordMortis]

Five days to coordinate a that is largely controlled by one group and the following haven't checked in:

8. Scoop20906 ------------>
10. Tru1cy ----------------->
15. Warpig ---------------->
16. Lagom Lite ----------->

I hate to jump on a vote because I fear the pile on is just waiting to happen but

 Tru1cy 
 


I'm still trying to figure how the killing of Qantaga affects my belief that I really should vote Lagom first.

[Unagi]

Absofuckinglutely

 tru1cy 
 


I'd also be into a Newcastle or Scoop lynch.

[Lassr]

1. Isgrimnur --------------->
2. RMC --------------------->
3. Lassr -------------------->
4. Mr. Bubbles ------------->
5. Coopasonic ------------->
6. Chaosraven ------------->
7. Remus West ------------>
8. Scoop20906 ------------>
9. Theohall ---------------->
10. Tru1cy ----------------->
11. Purge ------------------>
12. Lord Mortis ----------->
13. Unagi ------------------>
14. Newcastle ------------->
15. Warpig ---------------->
16. Lagom Lite ----------->

(Theohall, Remus West, Unagi) - 1 or more vocal Imperials leading the assault here?

Lagom-Where is that smooth tongued devil? Not use to the quiet Lagom. Important Imperial role hiding?

Scoop -started out Chaotic and weird then went silent



Newcastle - No real read due to travel. Unagi says evil. Has not seemed as combative as other games.

Coopasonic, Chaosraven -gotten no evil vibes from these yet Chaosraven scares me.

Isgrimnur, Bubbles, tru1cy, Warpig- Lurking in the shadows. Most likely 1 or 2 quiet Imperials here. Pick'em.

LordMortis, RMC - what to do? Trust'em or kill'em?

[Unagi]

LordMortis, RMC - what to do? Trust'em or kill'em?

After we kill like 5 or so imperials, I'll cross that bridge.

[RMC]

I can get behind Tru1cy, as he is one of the quiet ones I think need to be checked out.

 tru1cy 
 

[Lassr]

LordMortis, RMC - what to do? Trust'em or kill'em?

After we kill like 5 or so imperials, I'll cross that bridge.

Anyone else have an opinion on this?

[Mr Bubbles]

well lets put him one vote closer  tru1cy 
 

[Lassr]

Going back to Chaosraven's question about a mass reveal today; If what RMC says is true then the Emperor is not in the game meaning they do not know who they are killing before hand at least. then a reveal gives them a target rich environment.

But reveal would give us an idea where we stand and could provide a target for our lynch. But at this late in the game how trustworthy would the reveals be?

Right now I am very open minded about a reveal. Without knowing the roles and the number of roles in the game I can't know if it would be beneficial or not.

[LordMortis]

LordMortis, RMC - what to do? Trust'em or kill'em?

I really think this is the most important question to answer. I think it better kill me (and concede my rebel death) and/or kill rmc (and concede his possible rebel death) now rather than wait until the end to and then try to figure out our value or lack of value later. But that's me.

LordMortis, RMC - what to do? Trust'em or kill'em?

After we kill like 5 or so imperials, I'll cross that bridge.

I believe it's a better bridge to cross now but again that's me. With our doubts and leads gone/established, RMC and I are the next logical doubts/leads. Putting off making a decision and letting it haunt you is a mistake IMO. Right now I am going to proceed from the idea that I will refuse to lynch RMC and concede the loss if he's an imperial. If we accept this premise then if he's rebellion it puts the imperials in the position of having to kill him. The same can be said for me.

I don't intend to change my position unless something changes.

Do you have a trick up your sleeve? I'm a bit afriad of that line of thinking.

And where is chaosraven's we must lynch RMC opinion now? I'd like to hear more on it.

Going back to Chaosraven's question about a mass reveal today; If what RMC says is true then the Emperor is not in the game meaning they do not know who they are killing before hand at least. then a reveal gives them a target rich environment.

I've been trying to run that through my head and honestly it leads me to believe RMC is imperial (and should be lynched) as the kills don't seem random. OTOH, it looked like Imperials had a bunch of ways to scan people even without the Emperor.

I'm all for a mass reveal. What do we have to lose at this point?

Finally, while I wanted to see movement and votes I am a bit afraid of railroading the day. I'm actually debating pulling my vote, knowing that Doku is out there. I personally want to see discussion and voting but I'm also not excited about ending the day right now.

[tru1cy]

 remus west 
 
just a gut feeling

[Remus West]

I'm honored that I got the longest post from tru1cy in weeks.

[Unagi]

After we kill like 5 or so imperials, I'll cross that bridge.

I believe it's a better bridge to cross now but again that's me.

I guess I'm saying the same thing you are Lord Mortis, but for me 'crossing the bridge' IS 'considering RMC as Evil'

I'm not of that mind right now. If he is Evil - fine - they likely won.

If, on the other hand - we miraculously kill 7 Imperials In a Row, and we still have Game Left to play - then I will perhaps consider crossing that bridge.

(Regarding you: I already have stated that I totally feel you are indeed Wedge)


On that topic, I guess I will articulate this as well:
RMC was (at the time of his claim) most certainly an Unconverted Mara Jade... (I can't see any reason anyone else would say they were.)


The only question left is: Is he honest, or a converted liar...

If he was converted, it happened last night. And... well, frankly I think the game would be basically unrescueable if he was converted....

If he wasn't converted - then we have a chance to totally shoot ourselves in the (how many feet do we have?) foot again, and "test lynch" an unconverted Mara Jade.... If we fail that test (RMC = Good), then I feel like we are also basically unrescueable (numerically)

So, yeah - my inclination is to say, fuck it - and never lynch RMC the remainder of the game (with the only possible exception being what I noted before)


I do agree with this one point: It looks like their kills are because they have scanned Qantaga and El Guapo. (Meaning The Emperor is in the game, and he would have converted RMC) But that could be by design. In fact, Remus' whole "the Qantaga death is still a mystery" could indeed be him trying to get us to feel that the Emperor must be in the game (keep the Mara fear alive), when in fact (perhaps) Remus knows he isn't. ((I think there are other possible ways the Imperials could scan a player too))

[Remus West]

Mara Jade: Mara at the start of this game is a citizen. Both the Emperor and Luke are looking for Mara. If she is scanned by the Emperor first, then this will give her the confirmation she needs and she will become loyal to the Empire forever. If she is scanned by Luke first, then she will change sides and become a Rebel. Mara will receive a PM after she has been scanned by either the Emperor or Luke and simply told that either the Emperor has scanned her or that Luke has scanned her. She will not be told the true identity of either the Emperor or Luke. If she isn't found by either, then she will remain a conflicted citizen.

The only scans that matter with regard to Mara are the Emperor and Luke. Scans provided by Jabba, Joruus, or Grevious are meaningless with regard to her conversion or loyalty.

[LordMortis]

My current thoughts of where we stand:

I trust purge implicitly
I trust me implicitly
I trust that unless something changes I will not ever vote for RMC. He either is another imperial pretending to be Mara (we've lost), a converted mara (we've lost), or should need to be assassinated by the imperials.
I trust that I will be the first person shot and I if the emperor is not in the game the odds of having a shooter or two or three go up, though that is mitigated by Austin's death and by banking on RMC telling the truth.

I think chaosraven has potentially played a very tricky game with regards to his relationship with Austin and with Austin's coming out and that scares me.

History suggests that chaosraven and remus west normally kill each other before six days have passed. Barring scans, finding 4 roled players (not counting redrun) finding more important targets, this suggests to me that they are probably on the same side, good or evil.

And yet the silence of others scares me more, even if that fear had already proven to be mostly unfounded (killing of Grund and seeing Jow and relatively quiet qantaga against the relatively quiet Austin).

I really fear RMC is converted but I also don't see much of a chance in winning by lynching him outright.

What say you chaosraven? I know you've been around.

[Unagi]

The only scans that matter with regard to Mara are the Emperor and Luke. Scans provided by Jabba, Joruus, or Grevious are meaningless with regard to her conversion or loyalty.

Those other scans aren't as meaningless for El Guapo or Qantaga.

[WarPig]

I seriously just feel overwhelmed and every time I go to post I realize that my point has already been stated and much better.

At this point, I'm probably going to vote with purge, whichever way he goes. The Austin Principle still makes some sense to me and I believe that purge is good. I just hope I'm not being duped. Still a Padawan at this game, I am. Hell of a baptism by fire. 89 pages, wow.

[Unagi]

What's the Austin Principle and how does it apply?

(ya lost me)

[Isgrimnur]

Yeah, the less populous games tend to be a lot quicker and easier to parse.

[WarPig]

What's the Austin Principle and how does it apply?

(ya lost me)

I'm just talking about how the math added up that Purge had to have had the secret vote, pinning him as Yoda.

[Lassr]

Hell of a baptism by fire. 89 pages, wow.

true, this is one of the more difficult games. Maybe we can do a simpler one after this. Just don't give up on them because of this game.

[Unagi]

What's the Austin Principle and how does it apply?

(ya lost me)

I'm just talking about how the math added up that Purge had to have had the secret vote, pinning him as Yoda.

So, now I'm forced to wonder a little here.

Your choice of words:
"the math added up that Purge had to have had the secret vote"
"pinning him as Yoda"

I hear ya. I'm on board. tis' true. He is indeed basically pinned as Yoda.

but you first worded it a little more 'well, I guess so'
"The Austin Principle still makes some sense to me and I believe that purge is good."
"I just hope I'm not being duped."


You clearly understand the triangulation that 'pins' purge as Yoda.

You get it.

So I'm forced to consider that your original post was 'laying it on a little thick' with the 'New Guy' thing and how you hope you aren't being duped.

[Mr Bubbles]

My current thoughts of where we stand:

I trust purge implicitly

What do you trust him with exactly?

[LordMortis]

My current thoughts of where we stand:

I trust purge implicitly

What do you trust him with exactly?

I trust that he will not intentionally lead me astray and with that trust I won't vote for him... or was that a joke?

[WarPig]

Well it's true I don't want to look like the new guy noob who can't follow what seems to be a fairly straightforward game, but I've been opting for silence rather than open my mouth and directly place my foot in it, as I apparently have done here. Add the fact that I don't have the time to dive back into the thread to find each little detail to debate with myself in my head and second guess every word I've ever typed and you see my reasons for my dubiousness.

Basically, every time I look at it, the math adds up that purge is Yoda. My hesitation comes from not knowing "for sure". I don't know if there is any way the Imps could have put another secret vote on Austin, is there? From what I've read, there isn't. However, that doesn't mean I've missed something or I'm being played.

I'm paranoid enough in real life, this is just feeding the beast. This being my longest post so far (in defense of my lack of game ability, no less) I'm sure people will be wary. I am not an Imp. I'm just an overly defensive newbie trying to make the best decision I can. Since it seems like you're right, Unagi, I'll just follow purge's vote wherever it goes. That should be safe. If I get called out, well, we should cross that bridge when we come to it.

[Mr Bubbles]

My current thoughts of where we stand:

I trust purge implicitly

What do you trust him with exactly?

I trust that he will not intentionally lead me astray and with that trust I won't vote for him... or was that a joke?

No it was an honest question. Regardless if he is trusted or not, he's been very hot or cold on suspicions. I know I was several times accused by him as being evil, when in fact was not. I see Purge as a very unreliable trusted. He's too hawkish for my tastes.

[Isgrimnur]

Well it's true I don't want to look like the new guy noob who can't follow what seems to be a fairly straightforward game, but I've been opting for silence rather than open my mouth and directly place my foot in it, as I apparently have done here. Add the fact that I don't have the time to dive back into the thread to find each little detail to debate with myself in my head and second guess every word I've ever typed and you see my reasons for my dubiousness.

Basically, every time I look at it, the math adds up that purge is Yoda. My hesitation comes from not knowing "for sure". I don't know if there is any way the Imps could have put another secret vote on Austin, is there? From what I've read, there isn't. However, that doesn't mean I've missed something or I'm being played.

I'm paranoid enough in real life, this is just feeding the beast. This being my longest post so far (in defense of my lack of game ability, no less) I'm sure people will be wary. I am not an Imp. I'm just an overly defensive newbie trying to make the best decision I can. Since it seems like you're right, Unagi, I'll just follow purge's vote wherever it goes. That should be safe. If I get called out, well, we should cross that bridge when we come to it.

Don't feel that you need to be as eloquent r in depth as others. Play the game you know. If you agree with someone ad were about to say it, cite them and do it.

If you trust purge as Yoda, that's fine. But bear in mind that he has no more solid information about players and roles than you do. Trusting him is fine. Following his vote blindly may not be. Being trusted doesn't mean that his information is any better than yours. And it still doesn't mean a trusted won't stab you in the back for what he thinks is good reason.

[LordMortis]

No it was an honest question. Regardless if he is trusted or not, he's been very hot or cold on suspicions. I know I was several times accused by him as being evil, when in fact was not. I see Purge as a very unreliable trusted. He's too hawkish for my tastes.

If it's of any consequence, I'd have had him lynched right until Austin essentially came out as an imperial and then he was backburnered until he proved himself by getting Austin killed.

[Unagi]

So, now I need to maybe go back and re-read - but I REALLY don't want to.

One thing I am recalling:

There was a time when I listed Newcastle and Scoop, tru1cy, Lagom (not sure on the specifics I listed, but some of those, certainly), and I also mentioned that RMC was a suspect.

Right out of the gate (IIRC) a bunch of people took that list and suggested we run with testing RMC (who, due to his recent announcement, I now believe was clearly not an Imperial at the time). At the time (and I think I commented to this effect), I didn't like those that jumped at the RMC choice.

I'd like to go back and see if I'm remembering that all correctly.

[Chaosraven]

I think we are in the position that anyne with any information needs to come forward with it, so we have something concrete to work with.

[Chaosraven]

My current thoughts of where we stand:

I trust purge implicitly

What do you trust him with exactly?

purge is Yoda. There are only two scenarios where he is not. One: yoda threw the vote (stupidly) and thereby proved a false yoda. Two: r2 used his one time (stupidly) and thereby proved a false yoda. I trust the recently demised to have avoided doing something that stupid.

[Chaosraven]

OTOH, if any of you were that stupid, please tell us now.

[Chaosraven]

As the game has not ended in a shot and flurry of wolfpile votes, we should have time to discuss what that means today.