Game of Thrones - Season 2 Discussion

[Toe]

Overall I thought it was a great episode to cap off a great season. There were a couple of things that bugged me a little though.

Sam's encounter with the enemy. Did I just not see it right or did the commander see sam (in his awesome hiding spot) or not? Either way, seems a tad stupid to have the commander see him and not attack or not see him when he is a few feet away looking at him.

No, this is consistent. Remember episode 1, season 1 where the scouting party of three came across the white walkers? Two of the three were brutally and efficiently murdered, yet even though they were in close proximity, they just ignored the 3rd guy (the one that Ned later executes for desertion) and let him run away.

I have a theory that the White Walkers seek warriors to turn into Wights (the re-animated dead warriors) In that party of 3 in S01E01, it was clear the 3rd man was not a warrior, proven as he then deserts rather than return to the Black Watch. And in Sams case, despite being there to help, he is also clearly not a warrior, and thus beneath notice. It's just my theory, but at least it explains how the deserter from the first episode "got away".

Not consistent if you consider they also killed and turned a child to a wight during that scenario.

[Isgrimnur]

That wight looks like a muppet.

You're wong. That's a walker, not a wight.

[dedewhale]

That wight looks like a muppet.

its not a wight but that pic is of a white walker....the correct response is that White Walker looks like a muppet

[Jag]

That wight looks like a muppet.

You're wong. That's a walker, not a wight.

Two wongs don't make a wight.

[Zaxxon]

I can never remember the Other name for White Walkers. Hmm.

[hepcat]

That wight looks like a muppet.

You're wong. That's a walker, not a wight.

Two wongs don't make a wight.

and with that, we here at the Oak City Improv Center and Lawn Care Service bid you a...GOOD NIGHT!

[Vorret]

Awesome

[Carpet_pissr]

Definitely should go in the "Top 20 Best OO Quips" Hall of Fame IMO, at least nominated in the "vewwwwy clever" and "Good eye!" categories.

[Exodor]

The GOT cast discusses which characters deserve spin-offs

Jon Snow (Kit Harington) I think Samwell should have a spin-off. He's such a wonderful character, and John Bradley plays him so well. John and I have always talked about doing a spin-off with Jon Snow and Samwell like a buddy comedy.

I would watch the hell out of that.

[Carpet_pissr]

The GOT cast discusses which characters deserve spin-offs

Jon Snow (Kit Harington) I think Samwell should have a spin-off. He's such a wonderful character, and John Bradley plays him so well. John and I have always talked about doing a spin-off with Jon Snow and Samwell like a buddy comedy.

I would watch the hell out of that.

Interesting. I love the book's Samwell character, but his is one of a very few on screen characters that rubs me the wrong way for some reason.

Now, Tyrion/Bronn? Bring it...I could listen to those two assholes snipe at each other all day!

[Sepiche]

Not characters from the book, but I always thought the Adventures of Duncan and Egg would make from some pretty good weekly television.

[Skinypupy]

Is it just me, or does Margarey Tyrell seem a lot more conniving in the show than she did in the books? She obviously knew how to play the game in the books, but it seemed more at the bidding of her family than of her own personal ambition. The show seems to want to make her into more of a major player...not that I'd mind seeing more of her.

[pr0ner]

I can never remember the Other name for White Walkers. Hmm.

[Zaxxon]

Is it just me, or does Margarey Tyrell seem a lot more conniving in the show than she did in the books? She obviously knew how to play the game in the books, but it seemed more at the bidding of her family than of her own personal ambition. The show seems to want to make her into more of a major player...not that I'd mind seeing more of her.

Non-spoilery: Yes.

Mild spoilery:

Spoiler:

In the books she largely did the same things--it just comes off a little more as her idea in the show. That said, I don't know that this is necessarily a change. The Tyrells in the books were just as conniving, led by the Queen of Thorns. Since the QoT is going to be introduced next season, it's entirely possible that what we've seen so far is consistent with the book, and that it just seems like Margaery is taking a greater role since she's the only Tyrell that we've seen so far other than dreamy Loras.

[Terrified]

I have a theory that the White Walkers seek warriors to turn into Wights (the re-animated dead warriors) In that party of 3 in S01E01, it was clear the 3rd man was not a warrior, proven as he then deserts rather than return to the Black Watch. And in Sams case, despite being there to help, he is also clearly not a warrior, and thus beneath notice. It's just my theory, but at least it explains how the deserter from the first episode "got away".

Not consistent if you consider they also killed and turned a child to a wight during that scenario.

We don't know anything about the child that was turned. And I'm not sure you understand what I mean by warrior. Warrior doesn't mean adult male who can wield a sword. It means someone who is a fighter, who would never run, never desert their friends/comrades. In the opening scene of S01E01, the two men who are killed, one can assume if they had been left alive, they would've returned to the wall to report the return of the White Walkers and never deserted. They were warriors. Arya Stark is a child and a warrior. I'm sure the White Walkers would not consider her beneath notice and would turn her.

[Scuzz]

Is it just me, or does Margarey Tyrell seem a lot more conniving in the show than she did in the books? She obviously knew how to play the game in the books, but it seemed more at the bidding of her family than of her own personal ambition. The show seems to want to make her into more of a major player...not that I'd mind seeing more of her.

Non-spoilery: Yes.

Mild spoilery:

Spoiler:

In the books she largely did the same things--it just comes off a little more as her idea in the show. That said, I don't know that this is necessarily a change. The Tyrells in the books were just as conniving, led by the Queen of Thorns. Since the QoT is going to be introduced next season, it's entirely possible that what we've seen so far is consistent with the book, and that it just seems like Margaery is taking a greater role since she's the only Tyrell that we've seen so far other than dreamy Loras.

As I understand it (and you can google a picture of it) she has a nude scene with someone in the show. Who? Since in the books that is a serious question until very late.

[Zaxxon]

As I understand it (and you can google a picture of it) she has a nude scene with someone in the show. Who? Since in the books that is a serious question until very late.

Spoiler:

Renly. The scene's not described in the books, but it almost certainly happened. Renly may have been gay, but you can bet your ass he wanted an heir. I don't think it's a big question in the books--it's not spoon-fed to the reader, but it's clear that Renly and Loras had a thing, and that Renly and Margaery had a part to play which included producing an heir.

[Scuzz]

As I understand it (and you can google a picture of it) she has a nude scene with someone in the show. Who? Since in the books that is a serious question until very late.

Spoiler:

Loras. The scene's not described in the books, but it almost certainly happened. Renly may have been gay, but you can bet your ass he wanted an heir. I don't think it's a big question in the books--it's not spoon-fed to the reader, but it's clear that Renly and Loras had a thing, and that Renly and Margaery had a part to play which included producing an heir.

I didn't get that in the book at all, but I guess if it's on the show Martin must have approved it.
So the Lannisters aren't the only ones with their own dirty secret.

[Zaxxon]

I didn't get that in the book at all, but I guess if it's on the show Martin must have approved it.
So the Lannisters aren't the only ones with their own dirty secret.

I will sound like an asshole for saying it, but it's common that folks didn't get that from the book. But without a doubt, it's there. It helps if you're a giant nerd and have read the books 5 or 6 times...

[Scuzz]

I didn't get that in the book at all, but I guess if it's on the show Martin must have approved it.
So the Lannisters aren't the only ones with their own dirty secret.

I will sound like an asshole for saying it, but it's common that folks didn't get that from the book. But without a doubt, it's there. It helps if you're a giant nerd and have read the books 5 or 6 times...

I have seen guys argue this on QT3 but it seems to me if they have shown it on the TV show, and Martin has approved that stuff then it must be so.

[TiLT]

I didn't get that in the book at all, but I guess if it's on the show Martin must have approved it.
So the Lannisters aren't the only ones with their own dirty secret.

I will sound like an asshole for saying it, but it's common that folks didn't get that from the book. But without a doubt, it's there. It helps if you're a giant nerd and have read the books 5 or 6 times...

I have seen guys argue this on QT3 but it seems to me if they have shown it on the TV show, and Martin has approved that stuff then it must be so.

It's my understanding that they do not send the TV show scripts to George R. R. Martin for approval. He most likely gave away the right to approve stuff when he sold the license. They do value his input however, but it seems to be mostly limited to his one episode a year and that he gets a copy of all the audition tapes so that he can voice his opinion about them if he wishes.

[Odin]

Wait, wait, wait, are we saying...

Spoiler:

that Loras Tyrell screwing his sister Margaery is in the books? Wha?!? I didn't see that in the series, much less in the books. In fact, in the books Martin pretty strongly implies (or at least has lots of characters imply) that she's a virgin, primarily because her only husband was gay, and was having an affair with her brother. Why would we think that her equally-gay brother was messing around with her??

[TiLT]

Wait, wait, wait, are we saying...

Spoiler:

that Loras Tyrell screwing his sister Margaery is in the books? Wha?!? I didn't see that in the series, much less in the books. In fact, in the books Martin pretty strongly implies (or at least has lots of characters imply) that she's a virgin, primarily because her only husband was gay, and was having an affair with her brother. Why would we think that her equally-gay brother was messing around with her??

I think you may have misread what people are saying here. What you're describing definitely doesn't happen in either the books or the show.

Also: (spoiler for A Dance with Dragons)

Spoiler:

I seem to remember that they proved Margaery was indeed not a virgin in this book, despite supposedly not having had intercourse with any of her three husbands. Am I mistaken?

[Zaxxon]

No, what I was saying is...

Spoiler:

...that my reading of the book suggests that the 'tried to do it but couldn't' scene that's in the show probably happened to the book characters, too. That Renly hasn't deflowered Margaery, but that he sure as hell had tried. He had to--an heir isn't optional, just like taking a wife wasn't optional.

[Odin]

No, what I was saying is...

Spoiler:

...that my reading of the book suggests that the 'tried to do it but couldn't' scene that's in the show probably happened to the book characters, too. That Loras hasn't deflowered Margaery, but that he sure as hell had tried. He had to--an heir isn't optional, just like taking a wife wasn't optional.

Spoiler:

Is it possible you're writing "Loras" when you mean to write "Renly"? Because I never got any impression that Loras had tried to inseminate his sister.

[Zaxxon]

Wow. Yes. Edits forthcoming!

[Odin]

Wow. Yes. Edits forthcoming!

Consider my mind officially un-blown.

[Odin]

Wait, wait, wait, are we saying...

Spoiler:

that Loras Tyrell screwing his sister Margaery is in the books? Wha?!? I didn't see that in the series, much less in the books. In fact, in the books Martin pretty strongly implies (or at least has lots of characters imply) that she's a virgin, primarily because her only husband was gay, and was having an affair with her brother. Why would we think that her equally-gay brother was messing around with her??

I think you may have misread what people are saying here. What you're describing definitely doesn't happen in either the books or the show.

Also: (spoiler for A Dance with Dragons)

Spoiler:

I seem to remember that they proved Margaery was indeed not a virgin in this book, despite supposedly not having had intercourse with any of her three husbands. Am I mistaken?

Spoiler:

Well, yes and no. They presumably check for an intact hymen, which short of actual pregnancy (or, I suppose, a rape kit, but they hardly have that sort of thing in Westeros) is about the only way to prove that somebody's a virgin. However Martin makes it clear though other characters (I forget whether it was Cersei or Sansa) that young noble ladies who often rode horses nearly always ruptured that delicate tissue long before their first sexual experiences. So while there was no conclusive evidence that she WAS a virgin, they couldn't really prove that she wasn't without a smoking "gun" (pun intended, of course).

[Daveman]

Wait, wait, wait, are we saying...

Spoiler:

that Loras Tyrell screwing his sister Margaery is in the books? Wha?!? I didn't see that in the series, much less in the books. In fact, in the books Martin pretty strongly implies (or at least has lots of characters imply) that she's a virgin, primarily because her only husband was gay, and was having an affair with her brother. Why would we think that her equally-gay brother was messing around with her??

It's been awhile, but as I recall from A Feast for Crows...

Spoiler:

Cersei is looking for whatever dirt she can get on Margaery, and is using Lady... Taena? as a spy. At one point, she comments that Margaery is never alone, always with her cousins and friends, etc... except now and then she's with just Loras. I believe they kind of snicker at that and even say something along the lines of "oh no that couldn't possibly be true" but aren't above possibly using that as a nasty rumor.

Beyond that, I don't think the two of them doing that are "in the books". Not to say I couldn't be missing something, there are certainly several subtle and not-so-subtle things in the books. I'd completely missed any of the

**WARNING MASSIVE SPOILER... NO REALLY POTENTIALLY MASSIVE SPOILER**

Spoiler:

Jon Snow is the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar

tidbits until seeing the theory on a website and then it all seemed obvious.

[Scuzz]

Okay, as I haven't read Dance With Dragons I have avoided the last couple spoilers but are you now saying that Margery doesn't screw around with Loras in either the books or the TV show?

So who is she screwing with on the TV show? The books are pretty strong (at least through book 4) that nobody knows who she may/may not have been with.

As I said I never got that from the books and haven't seen the TV show.

[Scraper]

Wait, wait, wait, are we saying...

Spoiler:

that Loras Tyrell screwing his sister Margaery is in the books? Wha?!? I didn't see that in the series, much less in the books. In fact, in the books Martin pretty strongly implies (or at least has lots of characters imply) that she's a virgin, primarily because her only husband was gay, and was having an affair with her brother. Why would we think that her equally-gay brother was messing around with her??

I think you may have misread what people are saying here. What you're describing definitely doesn't happen in either the books or the show.

Also: (spoiler for A Dance with Dragons)

Spoiler:

I seem to remember that they proved Margaery was indeed not a virgin in this book, despite supposedly not having had intercourse with any of her three husbands. Am I mistaken?

Spoiler:

Well, yes and no. They presumably check for an intact hymen, which short of actual pregnancy (or, I suppose, a rape kit, but they hardly have that sort of thing in Westeros) is about the only way to prove that somebody's a virgin. However Martin makes it clear though other characters (I forget whether it was Cersei or Sansa) that young noble ladies who often rode horses nearly always ruptured that delicate tissue long before their first sexual experiences. So while there was no conclusive evidence that she WAS a virgin, they couldn't really prove that she wasn't without a smoking "gun" (pun intended, of course).

Spoiler:

The singer (The green one, I forget his name) does say that Margaery fucked Loras while he was being tortured by Cersei, of course almost everything he said was a lie to get them to stop torturing him.

[Bob]

Spoiler:

Jon Snow is the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar

If that turns out not to be true, or is so unimportant to the story that GRRM never revisits the topic, I will hate him forever.

[Odin]

Okay, as I haven't read Dance With Dragons I have avoided the last couple spoilers but are you now saying that Margery doesn't screw around with Loras in either the books or the TV show?

So who is she screwing with on the TV show? The books are pretty strong (at least through book 4) that nobody knows who she may/may not have been with.

As I said I never got that from the books and haven't seen the TV show.

This thread was the first place where I ever saw/heard anyone suggest that Margaery had screwed her brother, Loras. Furthermore, it seems to be that where the name "Loras" was used above, the writer actually meant to say "Renly," who was, briefly, Margaery's husband.

Of course, there's actually no evidence to date that Margaery has had sex with anyone at all.

[gameoverman]

Maybe people misunderstood her suggestion of a threesome. I thought what she had in mind was her brother cranks Renly's....crank, then Renly turns to her to get with the child making. At no time does this require her to so much as touch her brother. I did not get the impression she wanted any incestuous contact at all.

[Carpet_pissr]

I thought what she had in mind was her brother cranks Renly's....crank, then Renly turns to her to get with the child making.

In the HBO series, she directly suggested that to Renly, but I don't remember anything that specific in the books.

[TiLT]

I thought what she had in mind was her brother cranks Renly's....crank, then Renly turns to her to get with the child making.

In the HBO series, she directly suggested that to Renly, but I don't remember anything that specific in the books.

How would that have been presented in the book? By having Catelyn sneaking a peek through the tent flaps? Neither Renly, Loras or Margaery were POV characters in A Clash of Kings. Anything that happened in private between them would just have to be guessed at by the reader. The stuff that happened in the show could have happened in the books, but there's no way for us to confirm or deny.

[Scuzz]

Okay, as I haven't read Dance With Dragons I have avoided the last couple spoilers but are you now saying that Margery doesn't screw around with Loras in either the books or the TV show?

So who is she screwing with on the TV show? The books are pretty strong (at least through book 4) that nobody knows who she may/may not have been with.

As I said I never got that from the books and haven't seen the TV show.

This thread was the first place where I ever saw/heard anyone suggest that Margaery had screwed her brother, Loras. Furthermore, it seems to be that where the name "Loras" was used above, the writer actually meant to say "Renly," who was, briefly, Margaery's husband.

Of course, there's actually no evidence to date that Margaery has had sex with anyone at all.

Okay....I accept where this discussion has now gone.

[Exodor]

Cracked Presents: Game of Thrones: the Board Game (video)

The King can't just be killed by a boar in between turns!

[Scuzz]

Last weekend was a free HBO weekend for Uverse customers so I watched an the episode they were showing...the Valor Morghulis (sp) episode. It was interesting that for the most part I could figure out who everyone was.

The acting seemed pretty good but I do have to say that the 5 minutes per scene...switch to new characters.....5 minutes again...switch again....seemed a little to severe to me. I know there are a million characters with a million things going on but I just didn't care for that.

Also this scene made me think....

Spoiler:

The scene where Brianne kills the three Stark men who run across her and Jaime Lannister. I have trouble combining that scene with the action in book 4 where she actually worries about her ability to kill the men who attack her

[Ralph-Wiggum]

The acting seemed pretty good but I do have to say that the 5 minutes per scene...switch to new characters.....5 minutes again...switch again....seemed a little to severe to me. I know there are a million characters with a million things going on but I just didn't care for that.

This was especially present in that episode since it was the season finale and they needed to provide at least some season closure for all the characters. While such switching around occurs in most episodes, it usually is decently subdued.