Elite: Dangerous

soup · Post by **soup** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:22 am

I see no love for this here...? Kinda shocked.
The $75.00 beta is out and it is really really fucking engrossing/immersive/good.

Yes, its $75 for a beta and you really cant fly this without a proper HOTAS stick and throttle($120) Using trackir($125) is probably for the best also. So, you're looking at a couple hundred bucks to really drop yourself into a cockpit of a sidewinder.
Totally worth it.

The flight model feels right.
The sound design feels way right.
Dogfighting is actually fun and not a chore.
Entire GALAXY to explore eventually.

So why arent you flying in Elite? Or if you are, what do you think so far?

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:50 am

soup wrote:So why arent you flying in Elite?

I played the original to death on my Apple ][e and loved it. Very interested in Elite: Dangerous and I've been following it very closely. It sure does look like it will be great. All that said, I'm not going to pay $75 for a beta. Doubly so since they haven't finished implementing the mouse and keyboard controls for this. I understand that is coming later. Personally, I'm never buying another joystick. They take up space, are awkward to use and break far too easily. Not to mention the cost for a good one. Just nope. Games like Freelancer and the X series proved that mouse/keyboard can be completely viable for this genre so I'm waiting to see how that's implemented in this game.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:06 am

soup wrote:So why arent you flying in Elite?

Because I'm saving it for when I get my Oculus Rift DK2, which should hopefully be tomorrow.

ColdSteel wrote:Personally, I'm never buying another joystick.

That's fine, but buy a proper HOTAS instead. They don't tend to break, and they last for years, both physically and as an up-to-date controller. I mean, the Saitek X52 which the Elite: Dangerous beta has been optimized for was released in 2004 and is still considered best of the bunch for its price.

Joysticks are far more hit and miss and they don't have the control options required for this kind of game anyway, requiring that you use the keyboard in addition to them.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:31 am

soup wrote:So why arent you flying in Elite? Or if you are, what do you think so far?

I'm not keen on paying $25 for early access... but hot damn if beta impressions aren't getting me tempted. I need to buy a HOTAS though, which puts my price of entry at $200+.

We'll see how long my willpower holds out. The game does look right up my alley. I never played the original Elite, but Privateer is one of my favorite games of all time and I love the genre.

Varity · Post by **Varity** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:12 pm

TiLT wrote:
soup wrote:So why arent you flying in Elite?
Because I'm saving it for when I get my Oculus Rift DK2, which should hopefully be tomorrow.

No need to rush. The current E:D Version 1.01 doesn't have compiled in support for the DK2, yet. You can get it to work with some tricks, but then you'll likely run into other issues like extreme juddering when turning your head, caused by a bug in the current Oculus runtime. See this thread: http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=29444

So far, I've used my Rift to take a peek around the cockpit which does look very impressive, but not for actual flying.

TiLT wrote:
ColdSteel wrote:Personally, I'm never buying another joystick.
That's fine, but buy a proper HOTAS instead. They don't tend to break, and they last for years, both physically and as an up-to-date controller. I mean, the Saitek X52 which the Elite: Dangerous beta has been optimized for was released in 2004 and is still considered best of the bunch for its price.

Joysticks are far more hit and miss and they don't have the control options required for this kind of game anyway, requiring that you use the keyboard in addition to them.

I've had good success using the cheap but extremely precise Thrustmaster T.16000M and VoiceAttack for everything else.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:19 pm

Varity wrote:
TiLT wrote:
soup wrote:So why arent you flying in Elite?
Because I'm saving it for when I get my Oculus Rift DK2, which should hopefully be tomorrow.
No need to rush. The current E:D Version 1.01 doesn't have compiled in support for the DK2, yet. You can get it to work with some tricks, but then you'll likely run into other issues like extreme juddering when turning your head, caused by a bug in the current Oculus runtime. See this thread: http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=29444

I'm well aware of the current issues, and have everything read to deal with them. Elite: Dangerous is still supposed to be one of the most impressive Rift experiences at the moment, even in this currently glitchy state.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:25 pm

Here's a recent Scott Manley (of Kerbal Space Program fame) video peek at the new beta.

I swear, just the docking sequence alone is getting me salivating about the game. Stuff like the docking and the fantastic HUD are the kind of immersive flairs that really get me into Privateer/Elite type games.

Varity · Post by **Varity** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:25 pm

soup wrote:I see no love for this here...? Kinda shocked.
The $75.00 beta is out and it is really really fucking engrossing/immersive/good.

Yes, its $75 for a beta and you really cant fly this without a proper HOTAS stick and throttle($120) Using trackir($125) is probably for the best also. So, you're looking at a couple hundred bucks to really drop yourself into a cockpit of a sidewinder.
Totally worth it.

The flight model feels right.
The sound design feels way right.
Dogfighting is actually fun and not a chore.
Entire GALAXY to explore eventually.

So why arent you flying in Elite? Or if you are, what do you think so far?

I love it, both the vision of freeform gameplay in an open universe and the technical and artistic execution so far.

Standard beta is another giant leap forward in terms of features, but has definitely regressed in terms of bugs and stability. Trying to repair the systems on my Lakon Type 6 causes a reproducible client crash for me, so right now I have to watch my paint job a bit.

However, the situation was similar after the bigger updates in Alpha and Premium Beta and Frontier did a good job fixing bugs and improving stability then, so I'm confident I'll get better quickly.

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:25 am

So how's this coming along? Any more stable with another couple months of development?

Out of nowhere late last night I got bit by the space sim bug and found myself on the Elite: Dangerous site with my mouse poised above the buy button trying to resist the urge to click.

I also haven't owned a flight stick of any sort since I played Wing Commander 2, so if anyone has any advice/opinions there I'd be in curious to hear them. I've read up on the current state of flight sticks, and based on what I've seen I'm leaning toward the Saitek X-55 Rhino, but the Thrustmaster Warthog looks pretty impressive. Anyone here tried the Warthog first hand? Is it truly $300 better than the Rhino?

Thanks!

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:16 pm

It's been stable all along, but there's a major update coming the 30th, adding a whole bunch of new stuff. This includes actual exploration, tons of ship upgrades, a huge amount of new systems, outposts, a new space station, a new ship type, and so on. I'm really looking forward to it.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:20 pm

There's a new "Beta 2" update coming in a week that has a lot of exciting stuff in store. The universe size is going from 55 star systems to 500 to give people more to explore, and there's a new ship being added that's particularly geared toward exploration.

They are adding a bunch of new ship systems and new weapons, and now ships and systems have some kind of wear & tear depending on how rough you are on them. There's a fun new pirate weapon that makes an enemy ship's cargo hatch malfunction and spill its contents.

There are two new starport types being added, one that's meant to be "like a run-down roadside cafe" that are so small they can't accomodate large ships. Your ship is also left exposed while docked at these outposts, so you're still vulnerable while refueling or trading. The other new starport is large but mobile, and it sounds like they will be the ones you're most likely to see first appear in newly explored systems.

The fast travel supercruise mode still seems like a work in progress, but they're adding a way for you to track the wakes left by other ships so you can now follow other people or AI ships that are in hyperspace. They're also adding a reputation system for tracking your favor with the three factions.

I was already enjoying the game a ton as-is in Beta 1, so I'm really looking forward to seeing all these additions. My main quibble holding me back from playing more right now is that it takes a bit too much effort to get equipped to be profitable as a pirate or bounty hunter; space trucking is the most reliable and fast moneymaker and it can get a little monotonous. If Beta 2 helps give some other good income options, I'll be playing a lot again.

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:31 am

I'm so weak I didn't even make it through the night without picking up Elite and an X-55.

I played around with the game a little last night... just solo'd enough to figure out how to get around, dock, etc. Took me a bit to figure out jumping and how to get landing clearance, but by the end of the night I was able to land pretty competently and move around in system with only minimal problems. Looking forward to trying the new beta once it's out and my joystick should be here in time for me to use it.

So one question: is there any sort of mining in the game yet or is it just blasting asteroids with lasers and collecting the debris with a scoop?

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:13 am

No mining in the current beta. It's supposed to be a big part of the final game, so I'm sure it'll be implemented for one of the upcoming versions.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:20 am

Here's a dev post on what they have in mind for mining down the road

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:23 pm

Thanks for the link.. that sounds pretty awesome. Looking forward to it.

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:02 am

Got my X-55 on Friday and was able to get it hooked up, get all the keys map to my preferences, and I tool around a bit in the current beta to get used to it.

I will say that the mouse and keyboard controls for Elite are much better than I had been led to believe, but everything, especially things that take fine throttle adjustments like docking are about 10x easier with a good stick. I think the hardest part was probably figuring out which of the many buttons to map actions to. There are a few quirks, but overall I'm pretty happy with my setup.

I did a bunch of runs between Ag and Industrial worlds over the weekend and, once I built up enough money to buy full loads of crop harvesters on the return trip I was able to make a tidy profit and buy a Cobra Mk. 3. Of course on the heels of that I read they are thinking about doing a character wipe after all for beta 2, but that's the way of a beta I suppose.

Tonight is unfortunately the night I'm stuck playing Star Wars with my father in law, but once we're done with that I'm hoping to get in and play around with the new beta.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:18 am

Be sure to get buttons mapped in a way you like for lateral and up/down translation movement. It's more useful and important in this game than any other space sim I can think of.

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:48 am

wonderpug wrote:Be sure to get buttons mapped in a way you like for lateral and up/down translation movement. It's more useful and important in this game than any other space sim I can think of.

Yeah, there's an awesome little thumb stick on my throttle I mapped to the thrusters. My thumb naturally sits on it as I'm flying, so it's nice and easy to use. So far I tend to use it mostly for docking, but I can see how it would be useful for dog fighting as well.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:52 am

Sepiche wrote:
wonderpug wrote:Be sure to get buttons mapped in a way you like for lateral and up/down translation movement. It's more useful and important in this game than any other space sim I can think of.
Yeah, there's an awesome little thumb stick on my throttle I mapped to the thrusters. My thumb naturally sits on it as I'm flying, so it's nice and easy to use. So far I tend to use it mostly for docking, but I can see how it would be useful for dog fighting as well.

I'm still getting the hang of it myself, but you can basically use it to circle strafe when you're in head-on collision jousting matches with other ships.

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:29 pm

wonderpug wrote:I'm still getting the hang of it myself, but you can basically use it to circle strafe when you're in head-on collision jousting matches with other ships.

That makes sense... I'll have to give it a try. I haven't actually done any fighting in the main game, but I've run through a few of the combat scenarios.

Just read that they've decided to go ahead and do a full wipe when the patch in beta 2.

raydude · Post by **raydude** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:35 am

This sounds really cool. I am so close to dropping the money on the beta. I'm just feeling a dose of guilt for all the other unfinished games I have

. I do have a question about the multiplayer: when you play, are you always online? Is there just one server instance, a la EVE? How does PVP work? Is it like a "wild west" where the ones who've been playing awhile prey on the newbies? What's to keep one from being a dick and killing people?

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:19 am

Beta 2.0 is out today, btw. 2.01 is coming later today, fixing some issues that have cropped up (among them having the galaxy map, with UI and all, serve as the starfield in the game for some reason).

raydude wrote:This sounds really cool. I am so close to dropping the money on the beta. I'm just feeling a dose of guilt for all the other unfinished games I have . I do have a question about the multiplayer: when you play, are you always online? Is there just one server instance, a la EVE? How does PVP work? Is it like a "wild west" where the ones who've been playing awhile prey on the newbies? What's to keep one from being a dick and killing people?

You're always online in the current beta, but can choose to play solo. The final game should have an offline mode as well. It's a heavily instanced world however. Just because you and a friend are at the same startport doesn't mean you can automatically see each other (unless you're grouped or lucky/unlucky). Whenever two or more players are in each other's vicinity, such as in the same star system or near the same planet, there's a chance the server will place you in the same instance until it no longer has any reason to do so. This is my understanding of how it works, at least. I only play solo anyway.

There's PVP, but you get bounties placed on you if you kill lawful players. I'm not sure what has been implemented in the current version of the game, but players who try to hunt down innocents like that in civilized systems will be in a world of trouble, including having space stations open fire on them, send out patrol craft to take you down, issuing bounties for your dead corpse, and so on.

If you fly to an anarchy system, you're not quite as protected unless there are witnesses. Again, I don't know how much of that has been implemented yet. I don't think the witness system is in yet, for example, but the new beta is still very fresh.

UsulofDoom · Post by **UsulofDoom** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:06 pm

I'm on the ropes. Elite:Dangerous or Star Citizen. Any one playing both?
I played Elite on my Apple IIc. So I have fond memories of that game.
Star Citizen seems to be well funded. They have 50 million dollars and over 500K backers already ,that was in August.
Star Citizen Funding Shoots Past The $50 Million Mark
What to do?

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:06 pm

UsulofDoom wrote:What to do?

Well, Elite is pretty playable and fun now and will be officially released late this year or early next year... Star Citizen still feels like a (admittedly well done) proof of concept and won't officially be released until late 2016.

No idea how they'll compare once they are done, but certainly a shorter wait for Elite.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:38 pm

Elite: Dangerous is the safest bet at the time of writing, and will offer you a satisfying gameplay experience right now. Star Citizen is much more nebulous, with (almost) all we have to go on being design documents and concept art.

I can tell you right now that there's no way Elite: Dangerous ends up being anything but a stellar game experience, particularly with an Oculus Rift. I can't give the same assurances about Star Citizen.

Having said that, the two games are actually pretty different. Star Citizen appears to be a more arcadey, combat-oriented space experience, focusing on the gameplay first and foremost. Elite: Dangerous has the experience itself front and center, opting for a realistic and slower approach to its gameplay, with peaceful activities like trading being the backbone everything else revolves around.

Both games can comfortably have room in your game collection without necessarily stepping on each other's toes.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:46 am

UsulofDoom wrote: Star Citizen seems to be well funded. They have 50 million dollars and over 500K backers already ,that was in August.
Star Citizen Funding Shoots Past The $50 Million Mark
What to do?

$55 Million actually.

TiLT wrote:Elite: Dangerous is the safest bet at the time of writing, and will offer you a satisfying gameplay experience right now. Star Citizen is much more nebulous, with (almost) all we have to go on being design documents and concept art.

Star Citizen already has PvP dogfighting, Vanduul Swarm (waves of alien ships that get progressively more difficult), racing, free-flight, Capture the Core, etc all available via Arena Commander and all with multiple, flyable ship options such as the M50 racer, Hornet fighter, 300i, Aurora, etc with new ships becoming available quite often such as the Mustang which is due to drop very soon.

Star Citizen is planned to be two games with the solo Squadron 42 being the mission based story line (with over 50 missions planned so far) that introduces you the persistent universe concept which allows for players to choose their own path with many options to choose from such as freighter, explorer, bounty hunter, racer, pirate, scavenger, mining, etc. all of which is available for a single pledge that can be had for as low as $35. (Plus an additional $5 for the Arena Commander module now that all of the original backer pledge packages have sold out)

Also, multi-crewed ships play heavily into the game design with many ships needing four or more players to fully man them.

Elite started development earlier so has a bit more to show but to state that SC is nebulous with nothing to show for it is disingenuous.

The big caveat right now is you'd better be packing some serious hardware. The only thing I can do right now with my three year old machine is walk around my hanger and inspect my three ships (Stealth Hornet, 325A Fighter/Escort, and Freelancer) and fly around a bit in free-fly mode. Throwing any other ship into the mix drags my woefully underpowered PC to its knees.

Don't get me wrong, Elite looks and plays fantastic but SC is also playable right now and is being produced by Chris Roberts who brought us Wing Commander and Privateer which means it's an automatic buy in my opinion.

Suitably Ironic Moniker · Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:33 pm

Geez, Brian, if you love Chris Roberts so much, why don't ya marry him?

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:34 pm

Maybe if he hadn't made that dreadful Wing Commander movie.

SlapBone · Post by **SlapBone** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:20 pm

Brian wrote:Maybe if he hadn't made that dreadful Wing Commander movie.

I thought that was Freddy Prinze Jr.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:25 am

Jingles plays the beta

Suitably Ironic Moniker · Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:50 pm

SimCity in space?

Taking their explanation at face value, I can understand their reasons, but this is a pretty major feature to cut, especially a few weeks before the official release. I'm strongly considering putting in for a refund, as I didn't pay a premium price in order to play a quasi-MMO.

Cortilian · Post by **Cortilian** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:01 pm

I threw a hissy fit when I found out Diablo 3 would require an always on connection because my internet at home is/was unreliable. I guess I'm just getting numb to it now. I'm meh on the issue. I'm more concerned with what 'game' will be there.

Varity · Post by **Varity** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:22 pm

Suitably Ironic Moniker wrote:SimCity 4 in space?

Taking their explanation at face value, I can understand their reasons, but this is a pretty major feature to cut, especially a few weeks before the official release. I'm strongly considering putting in for a refund, as I didn't pay a premium price in order to play a quasi-MMO.

Yeah, that's a pretty scandalous thing to do. I don't believe any of their explanation, I'm afraid, and have put in my request on Friday.

At the very least, they must have seen the alleged necessity to cut offline mode months ago and should have made that public right away. Instead Frontier kept quiet until one week before gamma release and in the meantime solicited more buyers with a sales pitch they knew was inaccurate. Open and honest communication this is not.

If you do decide to ask for a refund, it might be a good idea to put in your request without delay. Michael Brookes (the producer) said on the official forum that they would evaluate refunds on a case by case basis, so continuing to play might be detrimental to your chances.

Suitably Ironic Moniker · Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:28 pm

I actually prepurchased a release copy, so I'm not in the Beta. Still, I almost never buy full priced AAA games, so even the $50 is above what I like to spend on games. Saying that, I know that I still want to play it, so I will most likely keep my pre-order. I'm just kicking it around in my head tonight.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:36 pm

I was pretty disappointed to hear about this since it means that the game will now last only as long as they can keep the on-line servers up. Most games don't have a very good track record with that over any length of time. This was going to be a day one purchase but now I just don't know what I'm going to do.

Stefan Stirzaker · Post by **Stefan Stirzaker** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:17 am

Hmm, sounds like a way to get further money in future for fee for play

"A fully offline experience would be unacceptably limited and static compared to the dynamic, ever unfolding experience we are delivering." Strange, I never found Elite or Frontier limited or static, in fact we all found it so good we wanted to kickstart for another modern one didn't we??

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:38 am

I just want to nip one thing in the bud right away: There is still a single player mode, and there has been throughout the entire beta. Other players will only have an impact on the grand simulation going on in the background, but it's not something you're going to notice beyond being able to participate in discussions about good trade routes and market fluctuations with other people.

Stefan Stirzaker wrote:Hmm, sounds like a way to get further money in future for fee for play

Why would it be? It's not now.

Strange, I never found Elite or Frontier limited or static, in fact we all found it so good we wanted to kickstart for another modern one didn't we??

The words "limited" and "static" have no relation to the word "good" in this relation. The old games were indeed limited and static in the galaxy simulation. They were static in that nothing ever really changed, and limited in how little of the galaxy was actually simulated (almost nothing, in fact).

Elite: Dangerous actually simulates the galaxy. Solar systems are created through actual physical models from what I understand, through a simulation of the birth of that system and its developments since. Planets and their looks are generated not randomly, but through another layer of physics and chemistry. The final, generated texture map reflects the actual nature of the planet and will end up being unique to it. Planets and stars move in orbits where appropriate. Wars break out, involve players, and are resolved (hopefully). As new sources of income are found, a gold rush can have the galaxy involve players and create actual competition, even if you won't ever meet any of them directly in single player.

There are a LOT of things going on behind the scenes, which becomes apparent if you read the design documents. Even missions are handed out based on results from the galactic simulation, with the mission giver actually having a motivation (that might change) and a goal.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:16 am

Playing it on 3D screens with touch panels , voice recognition, and head tracking

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:19 pm

Ive decided I want to be a part of this but I have no idea what Id buy. Theres a beta then theres a Mercenary Edition thing....then theres something else. And it worries me they are already charging $5 - $20 for paint. Not to mention they say that this pre release stuff is like $15 more than the retail release itself will be.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:58 pm

No account wipe at launch. Game on!