NATO

[Isgrimnur]

Welcome, Montenegro!

NATO member states formally invited Montenegro to join the alliance, drawing a prompt response from Russia that it plans to suspend cooperation with the tiny Adriatic nation. U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry insisted that NATO is "not a threat to anybody."

Alliance Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said the invitation to Montenegro reaffirmed NATO's "open door" policy toward potential member states including Georgia, and promised a statement later with "renewed commitments to our strong support of Georgia's aspiration for NATO membership" — another move that could rankle Moscow.
...
The announcement sets in motion an accession process that will continue over months before Montenegroformally joins. Until all NATO states ratify the decision, Stoltenberg said Montenegro will be a non-voting participant in meetings.

The last members to join NATO were fellow Balkan countries Albania and Croatia in 2009.

[El Guapo]

Your move, ISIS.

[Holman]

Your move, ISIS.

ISIS counters in a press conference that they have recruited Armagan Berkay of Diyarbakir, Turkey.

[Isgrimnur]

Have a safe trip home!

German troops were forced to leave a NATO military exercise only 12 days into the month-long event in Norway after exhausting all of their allotted overtime.

Under German military organization, personnel are only allowed to work 41 hours a week, with no monetary compensation for overtime- only the reward of time off.

According to the Independent, Soldiers often are spending entire days doing nothing due to the country’s stringent working restrictions.

Budget cuts have hit the German military particularly hard- last year, less than half of Germany’s 66 Panavia Tornado aircraft were classified as “airworthy”. Ground troops were forced to use broomsticks in place of machine guns during exercises and the military is severely short of night-vision devices.

With budget shortages affecting readiness capabilities, German Parliamentary Armed Forces Commissioner Hans-Peter Bertels has called for the German government to increase flexibility through conversion of weekly overtime limits to yearly limits.

Expressing his disdain for the current restrictions, Bertels said that “It can’t be (tolerated) that we can’t fulfill our Nato obligations because of overtime.”

The German Bundeswehr has a budget of about 3.4 billion Euros, about 1.2% of Germany’s GDP.

[Zarathud]

It's like they're trying to give Trump material for his stump speech.

[Kraken]

Aren't NATO members bound to spend 2% of GDP on military...or are they only "encouraged" to do so?

[Max Peck]

Aren't NATO members bound to spend 2% of GDP on military...or are they only "encouraged" to do so?

As I understand it, the the 2% GDP defense spending guideline was a promise. Made by politicians. Hence...

[Rip]

Aren't NATO members bound to spend 2% of GDP on military...or are they only "encouraged" to do so?

As I understand it, the the 2% GDP defense spending guideline was a promise. Made by politicians. Hence...

Is anyone else amused by the fact that Greece is tops after the USA and UK?

[Max Peck]

Is anyone else amused by the fact that Greece is tops after the USA and UK?

Yup. I suspect it says more about their GDP than it does their commitment to NATO per se.

[Rip]

Is anyone else amused by the fact that Greece is tops after the USA and UK?

Yup. I suspect it says more about their GDP than it does their commitment to NATO per se.

I'm sure it is but at least they have an excuse.

I would be all for legislation that would limit our commitment to 2% unless at least half of the other members committed at least 2%. Promises aren't worth a shit unless there are consequences for failing to honor them.

[Isgrimnur]

We should invade.

[Kraken]

Why even bother, Luxembourg?

[Max Peck]

Is anyone else amused by the fact that Greece is tops after the USA and UK?

Yup. I suspect it says more about their GDP than it does their commitment to NATO per se.

I'm sure it is but at least they have an excuse.

I would be all for legislation that would limit our commitment to 2% unless at least half of the other members committed at least 2%. Promises aren't worth a shit unless there are consequences for failing to honor them.

As I understand it, the 2% guideline doesn't reflect money spent on NATO, but rather money spent on defense in general (excluding pensions), so you're actually advocating cutting your national defense budget by almost half. Good luck with that.

[GreenGoo]

Is anyone else amused by the fact that Greece is tops after the USA and UK?

Yup. I suspect it says more about their GDP than it does their commitment to NATO per se.

Heh. I was thinking "how much could uniforms for the 4 guys cost, anyway?"

Buy one APC and you're over budget, considering this is 2013 Greece.

That said, I doubt we're spending that 1% on "useful" military spending, so I'm not exactly going to attack other countries on how they deal with it.

[GreenGoo]

Is anyone else amused by the fact that Greece is tops after the USA and UK?

Yup. I suspect it says more about their GDP than it does their commitment to NATO per se.

I'm sure it is but at least they have an excuse.

I would be all for legislation that would limit our commitment to 2% unless at least half of the other members committed at least 2%. Promises aren't worth a shit unless there are consequences for failing to honor them.

As I understand it, the 2% guideline doesn't reflect money spent on NATO, but rather money spent on defense in general (excluding pensions), so you're actually advocating cutting your national defense budget by almost half. Good luck with that.

I'm almost certain this is correct, but I'm not very knowledgeable in this area. It's not spending on NATO, it's defense spending (overall) as a ratio of GDP.

[Rip]

Is anyone else amused by the fact that Greece is tops after the USA and UK?

Yup. I suspect it says more about their GDP than it does their commitment to NATO per se.

I'm sure it is but at least they have an excuse.

I would be all for legislation that would limit our commitment to 2% unless at least half of the other members committed at least 2%. Promises aren't worth a shit unless there are consequences for failing to honor them.

As I understand it, the 2% guideline doesn't reflect money spent on NATO, but rather money spent on defense in general (excluding pensions), so you're actually advocating cutting your national defense budget by almost half. Good luck with that.

We could certainly cut it some by pulling resources out of Europe. If they won't spend to defend themselves why should we spend extra to do it for them?

[Holman]

Their underspending isn't the reason for our overspending.

Try cutting ours and you'll find that out.

[Jeff V]

We could certainly cut it some by pulling resources out of Europe. If they won't spend to defend themselves why should we spend extra to do it for them?

And when the Taliban are occupying Paris and painting a burqa on the Mona Lisa, you'll wonder how the fuck it ever got to that.

[GreenGoo]

We could certainly cut it some by pulling resources out of Europe. If they won't spend to defend themselves why should we spend extra to do it for them?

And when the Taliban are occupying Paris and painting a burqa on the Mona Lisa, you'll wonder how the fuck it ever got to that.

Lol. I was going to respond with something, but I'll just settle with: That's dumb.

[$iljanus]

We could certainly cut it some by pulling resources out of Europe. If they won't spend to defend themselves why should we spend extra to do it for them?

And when the Taliban are occupying Paris and painting a burqa on the Mona Lisa, you'll wonder how the fuck it ever got to that.

Allahu akbar mes amis!

[Rip]

We could certainly cut it some by pulling resources out of Europe. If they won't spend to defend themselves why should we spend extra to do it for them?

And when the Taliban are occupying Paris and painting a burqa on the Mona Lisa, you'll wonder how the fuck it ever got to that.

That will probably happen anyway once they adopt Sharia to avoid upsetting the Muslims. I'm sure the Pope will know what to do.

[hepcat]

That's my absolute favorite Muslim scare story. Whenever yet another Fox News viewer falls for it, I have to laugh...then I start to wonder if I can sell them a bridge. Gullible people are fun.

[El Guapo]

That's my absolute favorite Muslim scare story. Whenever yet another Fox News viewer falls for it, I have to laugh...then I start to wonder if I can sell them a bridge.

Shouldn't there be a way to bet against the adoption of Sharia law in a given state / at the federal level by X date? Like, if Sharia is adopted in Tennessee by Jan, 1, 2021 (say), then I pay someone $100, otherwise they pay me $100 on that date.

[hepcat]

It's hard to verify though. There are just so many No-Go zones in North America and Europe right now.

[GreenGoo]

That will probably happen anyway once they adopt Sharia to avoid upsetting the Muslims. I'm sure the Pope will know what to do.

Uh, you couldn't have picked a worse country as an example of people bending to Muslim pressure.

[Rip]

That will probably happen anyway once they adopt Sharia to avoid upsetting the Muslims. I'm sure the Pope will know what to do.

Uh, you couldn't have picked a worse country as an example of people bending to Muslim pressure.

According to the first ethnic-related surveys released in early 2010, fully a fifth of French citizens or residents under twenty-four were Muslims.

Proportions were even higher in some places: 50% of the youth were estimated to be Muslim in the département (county) of Seine-Saint-Denis in the northern suburbs of Paris, or in the Lille conurbation in Northern France. A more recent survey validates these numbers.

An investigation of the French youths' religious beliefs was conducted last spring by Ipsos. It surveyed nine thousand high school pupils in their teens on behalf of the French National Center for Scientific Research (CNRS) and Sciences Po Grenoble, and was released on February 4, 2016, by L’Obs, France’s leading liberal newsmagazine. Here are its findings:

38.8% of French youths do not identify with a religion.
33.2% describe themselves as Christian.
25.5% call themselves Muslim.
1.6% identify as Jewish.
Only 40% of the young non-Muslim believers (and 22% of the Catholics) describe religion as “something important or very important” ;
But 83% of young Muslims agreed with that statement.
Such figures should deal the death blow to demographic deniers. Except that once proven wrong, deniers do not make amends. Rather, they contend that since there is after all a demographic, ethnic, and religious revolution, it should be welcomed as a good and positive thing. Straight from fantasy to surrender.

https://pjmedia.com/blog/latest-survey- ... muslims/1/

Patience padawan.

[GreenGoo]

Lol. They just bulldozed an immigrant shantytown with no plan in place as to where they would go or how they would live. France is about as racist and bigotted as they come with regard to it's muslim minority population. They have muslim riots because they are actively suppressing that part of their population, not because Sharia law is imminent.

By your logic, 1800's America was in danger of becoming another African nation.

[Rip]

Lol. They just bulldozed an immigrant shantytown with no plan in place as to where they would go or how they would live. France is about as racist and bigotted as they come with regard to it's muslim minority population. They have muslim riots because they are actively suppressing that part of their population, not because Sharia law is imminent.

By your logic, 1800's America was in danger of becoming another African nation.

Ahhh but it is growing at many times the rate of non-muslims in France. Once France nears 50% Muslim the game will change drastically.

[GreenGoo]

Lol. They just bulldozed an immigrant shantytown with no plan in place as to where they would go or how they would live. France is about as racist and bigotted as they come with regard to it's muslim minority population. They have muslim riots because they are actively suppressing that part of their population, not because Sharia law is imminent.

By your logic, 1800's America was in danger of becoming another African nation.

Ahhh but it is growing at many times the rate of non-muslims in France. Once France nears 50% Muslim the game will change drastically.

Presumably they will be forcibly relocated to "camps". Possibly "work" "camps". France should probably build a wall before their national language changes to Spanish.

[hepcat]

Lol. They just bulldozed an immigrant shantytown with no plan in place as to where they would go or how they would live. France is about as racist and bigotted as they come with regard to it's muslim minority population. They have muslim riots because they are actively suppressing that part of their population, not because Sharia law is imminent.

By your logic, 1800's America was in danger of becoming another African nation.

Ahhh but it is growing at many times the rate of non-muslims in France. Once France nears 50% Muslim the game will change drastically.

You forgot to mention that there are already No-Go zones in Dearborn, Michigan! Don't forget the No-Go zones!!!

[Rip]

Lol. They just bulldozed an immigrant shantytown with no plan in place as to where they would go or how they would live. France is about as racist and bigotted as they come with regard to it's muslim minority population. They have muslim riots because they are actively suppressing that part of their population, not because Sharia law is imminent.

By your logic, 1800's America was in danger of becoming another African nation.

Ahhh but it is growing at many times the rate of non-muslims in France. Once France nears 50% Muslim the game will change drastically.

Presumably they will be forcibly relocated to "camps". Possibly "work" "camps". France should probably build a wall before their national language changes to Spanish.

Ohh and I forgot to ask, since when is African a religion? This isn't a race issue it is one of religion and secularism. I have no problem with Islam or Christianity for that matter until they start attempting convert me or force me to live under the rule of that religion.

Religion is shit and anyone who opposes my right to feel that way and say so is the enemy. I would rather die than have my rights and freedoms dictated by an imaginary deity.

[hepcat]

I have no problem with Islam

Your posting history says otherwise. Otherwise you wouldn't be throwing up a bright red warning flag about Muslim population statistics every chance you get. The caveat that you only do so if they're trying to impose their views on you is rarely added to your missives.

[Rip]

I have no problem with Islam

Your posting history says otherwise. Otherwise you wouldn't be throwing up a bright red warning flag about Muslim population statistics every chance you get. The caveat that you only do so if they're trying to impose their views on you is rarely added to your missives.

I have no problem with the religion itself. I do have a problem with the numerous people of that religion that feel that I should be restricted in what I can do and say because of it. The problem isn't the religion but those who feel they have a right to impose on me to accommodate it.

I don't respect any religion but that doesn't mean I have a problem with it until they have a problem with my decision to not respect it. Their choice not mine.

[hepcat]

When was the last time a Muslim stopped you from doing something? Or even told you you couldn't do something?

In any case, if we go back over your posting history, you love to rail against Muslims in particular, while (as one example) defending Christian's rights to deny homosexuals the right to live their lives the way they want.

So much for that "I don't like anyone telling others what they can or can't do because of their religion!' defense.

[GreenGoo]

Lol. They just bulldozed an immigrant shantytown with no plan in place as to where they would go or how they would live. France is about as racist and bigotted as they come with regard to it's muslim minority population. They have muslim riots because they are actively suppressing that part of their population, not because Sharia law is imminent.

By your logic, 1800's America was in danger of becoming another African nation.

Ahhh but it is growing at many times the rate of non-muslims in France. Once France nears 50% Muslim the game will change drastically.

Presumably they will be forcibly relocated to "camps". Possibly "work" "camps". France should probably build a wall before their national language changes to Spanish.

Ohh and I forgot to ask, since when is African a religion? This isn't a race issue it is one of religion and secularism. I have no problem with Islam or Christianity for that matter until they start attempting convert me or force me to live under the rule of that religion.

Religion is shit and anyone who opposes my right to feel that way and say so is the enemy. I would rather die than have my rights and freedoms dictated by an imaginary deity.

Why the issue with mexican immigrants then? They are more christian than most Americans. Don't give me "it's a religion thing". It's a "they are different from us and are taking our jerbs" thing. But mostly "they are different from us" thing.

[Holman]

I'm still fuzzy on how NATO budgets will constrain immigrant birthrates.

[Rip]

When was the last time a Muslim stopped you from doing something? Or even told you you couldn't do something?

In any case, if we go back over your posting history, you love to rail against Muslims in particular, while (as one example) defending Christian's rights to deny homosexuals the right to live their lives the way they want.

So much for that "I don't like anyone telling others what they can or can't do because of their religion!' defense.

I haven't been supporting denying homosexuals anything beyond the semantics of "marriage". I fully support them having the same rights, my only position has been to understand religious people wanting some control over what constitutes a "religious marriage".

I'm not really a big marriage person and wouldn't have ever gotten married myself would it not been necessary to enjoy the rights and benefits afforded them. If I could get that with a civil union or not being married I am good.

My rails against muslims have been against those that think they can tell me not to make prophet cartoons, or those that refer to jewish people as monkeys, deny the holocaust etc.

[Fitzy]

I'm still fuzzy on how NATO budgets will constrain immigrant birthrates.

Increased NATO budgets result in increased overseas spending. Increased spending in foreign countries results in a higher standard of living in that country. People with a better standard of living have fewer children which again increases the standard of living. With an increased lifestyle fewer people want to immigrate to the US and there are fewer people to do so.

Thus, NATO budget cuts are directly responsible for our current immigration problem.

(Assuming we actually have an immigration problem)

[Isgrimnur]

Georgian Wargames

On May 4, rail cars loaded with 70-ton M-1s and M-2 Bradley armored fighting vehicles rolled off a ferry at the port in the Georgian city of Batumi. The occasion is a three-week war game organized by the Georgian military and U.S. European Command.
...
Georgian tankers still drive the significantly smaller and lighter — 45 tons — Soviet-era T-72, though some have been upgraded to the new SIM-1 configuration. Among other improvements, the SIM-1 package includes a Polish night-vision sight with a laser rangefinder plus new radios.

While Georgia is not a member of NATO, the alliance nevertheless works closely with the country’s troops. One stated goal of the current war game is to get a company of around 200 Georgian soldiers ready for its upcoming participation in the NATO Response Force, or NRF.

With a total of around 40,000 troops from inside and outside of NATO, this unit is on call to respond, in a matter of weeks, to crises anywhere in the world. Individual countries contribute troops to the NRF on 12-month rotations.

Georgian troops have been fighting alongside NATO in Afghanistan since 2004. More than a decade later, the alliance accepted the mountainous country’s offer to join the NRF.
...
In April 2014, U.S. Army troops pulled Abrams tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles out of warehouses in Germany for a fresh round of exercises. After the last tank-equipped units left, the Army had set up the stockpile — called the European Activity Set, or EAS — for training and other purposes.

Four months later, the ground combat branch sent another set of vehicles all the way from Texas to the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, as well as to Poland. In April 2015, another contingent from the U.S. state of Georgia brought tanks back to the Baltic region for more mock battles.

In June 2015, U.S. Air Force C-17 cargo planes dropped off a small number of Abrams in Bulgaria. Two months after that, the Marines sent their own M-1s for training in Bulgaria.
...
For 2017, the Pentagon has asked for $3.4 billion for the [European Reassurance Initiative] — four times what it requested for the previous fiscal year. A significant portion of the funds would go toward storing more tanks, artillery and other gear in Europe. All told, there would be enough equipment available for a brigade-size unit of up to 5,000 troops.

[Defiant]

Kaliningrad: New Russian missile deployment angers Nato

Russia's Interfax news agency said on Monday that Bastion missile-launchers had been sent to Kaliningrad.

In a statement to the Associated Press, Nato said the move "does not help to lower tensions or restore predictability to our relations".