Net Worth

[Jeff V]

My concern is everyone seems to think I'm a walking pile of cash and one reason we chose the location we're considering is because it is far from friends and family for this very reason.

I'm pretty sure if I'm looking for an Asian wife, I'm looking for one who was also an orphan. Extended Asian family equals money pit from what I've seen or heard.

Might not be a bad idea, but beware of excess baggage in the form of an unhappy childhood. I got both -- a wife with a huge family who also had an unhappy childhood. At the moment, the money pit has required no feeding -- several months ago my wife got enraged at her parents for not repaying a loan when promised, and then cut off the brother she was putting through college when pictures of him smoking cropped on FB. At least for now, she seems to have some around as one of her friends told me she would -- shortly after meeting this friend, she told me eventually her family here will become the most important thing and the sense of obligation back home will subside (but then shortly after that conversation, she brought her mom here and she's been living with them ever since).

It could be worse -- my wife's family has modest needs on account of them being largely uneducated peasants. In spite of a terrible childhood, my wife still managed to rise above her roots and become educated. I can't imagine how difficult it would be for us financially if her parents and siblings all had ambition and refined needs like she has.

[Kraken]

How is 66.75 different from 66?

It's .75 more, isn't it? My full SS retirement age is 66 years and 9 months.

Bad news. I am older than you and my full SS age is 67 years and 2 months. The government keeps pushing those dates back.

Actually, we were both wrong. If you were born in 1957, Your full retirement age is 66 and 6 months.

(edit) Naturally, Isg beat me to it. This changes everything!

I haven't checked yet, but I'm probably going to do better taking the spousal benefit than my own.

[Isgrimnur]

BAM!

[Scuzz]

How is 66.75 different from 66?

It's .75 more, isn't it? My full SS retirement age is 66 years and 9 months.

Bad news. I am older than you and my full SS age is 67 years and 2 months. The government keeps pushing those dates back.

Actually, we were both wrong. If you were born in 1957, Your full retirement age is 66 and 6 months.

(edit) Naturally, Isg beat me to it. This changes everything!

I haven't checked yet, but I'm probably going to do better taking the spousal benefit than my own.

I was born in 1955.

My financial consultant had a small group of us to dinner and a SS seminar. This was about a year ago. I had no idea there were so many angles to collecting SS. My wife is about 1 and 1/2 years older than me so her taking the spousal benefit may not work out to well for us. She was a stay at home mom for too long and it really hurt her SS payout.

[Kraken]

How is 66.75 different from 66?

It's .75 more, isn't it? My full SS retirement age is 66 years and 9 months.

Bad news. I am older than you and my full SS age is 67 years and 2 months. The government keeps pushing those dates back.

Actually, we were both wrong. If you were born in 1957, Your full retirement age is 66 and 6 months.

(edit) Naturally, Isg beat me to it. This changes everything!

I haven't checked yet, but I'm probably going to do better taking the spousal benefit than my own.

I was born in 1955.

My financial consultant had a small group of us to dinner and a SS seminar. This was about a year ago. I had no idea there were so many angles to collecting SS. My wife is about 1 and 1/2 years older than me so her taking the spousal benefit may not work out to well for us. She was a stay at home mom for too long and it really hurt her SS payout.

I know they recently closed off some of the weird loopholes that people were advised to exploit, such as filing and suspending or "deeming", whatever that is/was. I figure there's no point in learning all the ins and outs until the time comes since the rules will surely change in the meantime.

[gbasden]

I have never worked for a company that contributed so much as a nickle. And I've worked for a lot of companies.

Man, my current employer matches 50% for 401k up to the max you can put in each year. Needless to say, I am maxing out my contribution.

[RunningMn9]

What's the max %? I know the limit is $18k if you aren't in catch up, but don't remember the %.

[Jeff V]

I have never worked for a company that contributed so much as a nickle. And I've worked for a lot of companies.

Man, my current employer matches 50% for 401k up to the max you can put in each year. Needless to say, I am maxing out my contribution.

A few weeks ago, I went for a bike ride with a former colleague. I mentioned to him that I had an opening on my team that he'd be perfect for. It would have paid somewhat more than he is making at his current job. But his current employer adds 15% of his salary into a retirement account. There is absolutely no way I could spin the craptacular benefits package my company offers into anything that can match this.

[em2nought]

I know they recently closed off some of the weird loopholes that people were advised to exploit, such as filing and suspending

File and suspend wasn't a loophole, it was just a way to get more of the money back that you paid in quicker in case of some catastrophic event such as an illness. If you file and suspended and then ended up sick you could undo it and get a payment for all those years since age 66 at one time(your money that you paid in), but now you can only get 6 months worth. So please die, and leave your money for someone else. Tough luck Mr. working man!

[stessier]

What's the max %? I know the limit is $18k if you aren't in catch up, but don't remember the %.

15% is the max.

I know they recently closed off some of the weird loopholes that people were advised to exploit, such as filing and suspending

File and suspend wasn't a loophole, it was just a way to get more of the money back that you paid in quicker in case of some catastrophic event such as an illness. If you file and suspended and then ended up sick you could undo it and get a payment for all those years since age 66 at one time(your money that you paid in), but now you can only get 6 months worth. So please die, and leave your money for someone else. Tough luck Mr. working man!

SS is not a pot of money. Current workers pay for retired workers - no one ever guaranteed you'd get out what you paid in.

[Rip]

Otherwise known as a ponzi scheme.

The key is getting out early.......

[RunningMn9]

15% is the max.

Ok, that's less good than I thought. Contributing 15% of my income to get 7.5% out of my employer is still very good, but it would require a substantial commitment on my part (15% of my income). To get 6% of my income from my employer, I only have to commit 6% of my salary, which is more palatable.

SS is not a pot of money. Current workers pay for retired workers - no one ever guaranteed you'd get out what you paid in.

This. SS is not a savings account.

[RunningMn9]

Otherwise known as a ponzi scheme.

It's a pyramid scheme, that would have worked fine if we hadn't raided it to pay for other things, and we didn't have to deal with the unexpected bulge of the Baby Boomers.

[Jeff V]

Otherwise known as a ponzi scheme.

It's a pyramid scheme, that would have worked fine if we hadn't raided it to pay for other things, and we didn't have to deal with the unexpected bulge of the Baby Boomers.

Theoretically the bulge in baby boomers should have resulted in a large surplus for decades leading up to their retirements. While raiding funds is certainly a problem, another would be inadequate adjustment in both tax rate and retirement age to account for people living longer. Since raising taxes and cutting benefits are unpopular, in recent decades the government seems to be trying to curtail the "living longer" part by encouraging things ranging from over-processed foods and unhealthy diets to unchecked gunplay among those not contributing $$$ to the SS system in the first place.

[Kraken]

Otherwise known as a ponzi scheme.

It's a pyramid scheme, that would have worked fine if we hadn't raided it to pay for other things, and we didn't have to deal with the unexpected bulge of the Baby Boomers.

The boom went from 1946-64. You'd think someone in the next 50 years would have expected us to retire.

After much wailing and gnashing of teeth and rending of garments, they will raise the income cap and we'll be good to go.

[em2nought]

Otherwise known as a ponzi scheme.

It's a pyramid scheme, that would have worked fine if we hadn't raided it to pay for other things, and we didn't have to deal with the unexpected bulge of the Baby Boomers.

The boom went from 1946-64. You'd think someone in the next 50 years would have expected us to retire.

After much wailing and gnashing of teeth and rending of garments, they will raise the income cap and we'll be good to go.

Maybe they knew all along that they were going to create a ruined generation of people living on momma's couch, and the last of the boomers would have to continue to work til they dropped dead as everyone else was made to be unemployable by nurture and nature.

[Smutly]

What's the max %? I know the limit is $18k if you aren't in catch up, but don't remember the %.

This is defined by the employer 401k plan. They used to put limits on us, but we can contribute up to 100% of our pay -- but you just can't exceed the $18K annual figure.

[RunningMn9]

Ok, I knew the federal limit, but I thought it was both a % and a $ limit.

[Zaxxon]

Ok, I knew the federal limit, but I thought it was both a % and a $ limit.

The max is $18k employee contribution, $53k total employee and employer, and that cannot exceed 100% of the employee's salary. Maybe that's what you're thinking of.

[Smutly]

How is that possible (to be the VP of the US of A and have such a low net worth)?

In a nutshell, poor planning and decision-making.

I am genuinely curious how people are doing financially.

I'm in my early 40s and my net worth (assets - liabilities) is very high.

I grew up in a stable middle class family and went to public school and attended a state university. My family has no connections, political or otherwise, to give me any special advantage. From a very early age, I was keenly interested in how to accumulate wealth. In high school I learned about the power of compounding interest (thank you, Mr. Weldon). I got my first job as soon as I was legally able. My first pay check of $38.25 in cash was a fortune to me. You may think I'm joking, but the feeling I got when I earned my first pay check was extremely empowering. Knowing I wasn't reliant on my family for spending money and that I could earn this money by myself was an amazing feeling. I assume most people didn't have the same epiphany as I did, but it was real and finance was a priority for me from that point onward.

I worked throughout college. While I drove on the weekend from store to store working as a merchandiser, I would listen to Bob Brinker's "Money Talk" where he would talk about reaching the 'land of critical' mass. I didn't 'party' much. Never did drugs (still haven't). Didn't drink until I was 21. Didn't goof off much. I studied and I worked. I missed some life experiences, I'm sure. But I leveraged hard work and education into a profitable job, saving as much as I could as soon as I got my first job out of college.

It is sad that many people do not know what net worth means or what theirs is. The implication is that they don't know enough about their current situation to even begin to form a plan to retire -- nor is it a priority because it doesn't (or slightly) registers in their minds. They may think 'maybe I ought to do something about retirement' but some other financial problems are weighing them down or they are scared because they lack the financial education to be able to know what to do and so they get paralyzed.

Some people may think I am lucky. I am definitely fortunate and I am thankful that I am doing so well. However, I believe where I am financially is a result of educating myself in regards to finance and making excellent decisions so as to not overburden myself with debt early on. Living within your means, not taking on short-term debt, and maximizing cash flow has always kept my net worth growing. In other words, my "luck" has not been by chance. I have meticulously built it for almost 30 years. It allows me to donate significantly to organizations I believe are doing good work in communities. My kids have all the advantages financially that I never had (and as an aside, it is more difficult for me to educate them in financial matters because of it).

I have been ridiculed in other venues when speaking on this subject. People tend to think something magical happened for me and explain away my message. I'm here to tell you that nothing magical happened. So, if it's too late for you, show your children how compounding interest works. Teach them to 'pay themselves first'. Explain to them the evils of short-term debt. Discipline them to put aside enough cash to deal with an emergency. Be disciplined in your investing. It really is that simple -- and you don't have to have a high paying job to reach the land of critical mass. Thanks, Bob Brinker.

[Jaymann]

I re-voted to include the equity in my house, which probably puts me over $500k, most of it in a retirement account.

[Max Peck]

I re-voted to include the equity in my house, which probably puts me over $500k, most of it in a retirement account.

Congratulations, it looks like that puts you roughly on par with the typical Congresscritter.

Biden said people may look at him and say he has "a mildly expensive suit on" and that "he's vice president of the United States of America," but nevertheless, "this is the poorest man in Congress," Biden told the crowd. "He still makes a lot of money as vice president of the United States, and I do, by the way, I do." "I don't own a single stock or bond. … I have no savings accounts," he said. "But I got a great pension and I got a good salary." "I've been really, really fortunate," Biden said.

Biden's net worth is estimated to be between $39,000 and $800,000 according to the Center for Responsive Politics. President Obama is estimated to be worth between $3 million and $8 million. The median net worth for a member of Congress was $442,000 in 2012, according to Roll Call. The Capitol Hill newspaper also found that more than four dozen members of Congress are in debt, with liabilities exceeding $500,000.

Re Biden, are we really going to criticize a career politician for not going out of his way to engorge himself at the public trough? I think he'll be getting along just fine in his retirement years.

[Madmarcus]

Thanks, Bob Brinker.

Is he still on the radio? We used to listen to him almost every weekend in the early 90's.

[GreenGoo]

So, if it's too late for you, show your children how compounding interest works.

Early in my marriage I thought "Hey, I'll just show her how compound interest works and that will make my case for me".

Turns out, she's not so good at math.

Congrats Smutly, it's nice to see hard work, planning and intelligent money management pay off.

[GreenGoo]

Re Biden, are we really going to criticize a career politician for not going out of his way to engorge himself at the public trough? I think he'll be getting along just fine in his retirement years.

It has nothing to do with "engorging". At his salary, for his age, he's not worth nearly enough. Sure he could just be generous or not worried about money matters or just thinks he should spend it since he can't take it with him.

I find it odd that like 1/2 the responders here on OO are worth as much or more than the VP of the USA (for the record I'm using 1/2 a mil as was quoted in some article awhile ago). One of our primary hobbies is playing video games, for heaven's sake.

[RunningMn9]

Some people place greater value on enjoying the fruits of their labor while they are able. As long as they can survive in their later years, that's cool with me.

While I value the idea of securing my future to some degree, I also value the idea of enjoying the only life I have. That equation is different for each person.

And I don't mean to imply that Smutly has sacrificed anything for himself - that's up to him to decide for himself. I'm just saying that i could have been much farther ahead by living a life of austerity, but I value not living a life of austerity more than I value being much farther ahead (with respect to retirement planning).

[Max Peck]

Re Biden, are we really going to criticize a career politician for not going out of his way to engorge himself at the public trough? I think he'll be getting along just fine in his retirement years.

It has nothing to do with "engorging". At his salary, for his age, he's not worth nearly enough. Sure he could just be generous or not worried about money matters or just thinks he should spend it since he can't take it with him.

I find it odd that like 1/2 the responders here on OO are worth as much or more than the VP of the USA (for the record I'm using 1/2 a mil as was quoted in some article awhile ago). One of our primary hobbies is playing video games, for heaven's sake.

How much more than enough to retire and live comfortably does a person need to accumulate in one lifetime?

[LawBeefaroni]

Re Biden, are we really going to criticize a career politician for not going out of his way to engorge himself at the public trough? I think he'll be getting along just fine in his retirement years.

It has nothing to do with "engorging". At his salary, for his age, he's not worth nearly enough. Sure he could just be generous or not worried about money matters or just thinks he should spend it since he can't take it with him.

I find it odd that like 1/2 the responders here on OO are worth as much or more than the VP of the USA (for the record I'm using 1/2 a mil as was quoted in some article awhile ago). One of our primary hobbies is playing video games, for heaven's sake.

How much more than enough to retire and live comfortably does a person need to accumulate in one lifetime?

His pension and government health benefits mean that he doesn't really have to save a dime for retirement. He's covered and then some. But it is odd that his net worth is just slightly more than his household annual gross income of around $400K.

[Madmarcus]

How much more than enough to retire and live comfortably does a person need to accumulate in one lifetime?

How confident are you in you estimation of the cost of "retire and live comfortably?" Also the slightly connected question; is it possible to live a good life if you are consciously choosing not to be gainfully employed when you could be?

[Max Peck]

How much more than enough to retire and live comfortably does a person need to accumulate in one lifetime?

How confident are you in you estimation of the cost of "retire and live comfortably?" Also the slightly connected question; is it possible to live a good life if you are consciously choosing not to be gainfully employed when you could be?

I'm confident enough that I chose to retire before my 51st birthday. I have no debts, my post-retirement income exceeds my expenses by about 50%, and I have substantial liquid assets to tide me over when unexpected expenses arise (Oh, wait, if I planned for them, are they really unexpected?). I worked hard for about 3 decades to pull it off, and yeah, a life where I can use my time to do what I want, instead of what I have to do to pay the bills, is good by me. YMMV.

But we were talking about Joe Biden, not me. At 74 years of age, after some 44 years of serving his country in the Senate and as VP, I do think he's entitled to stand down next year and take it easy if that's what he chooses to do. Given that his congressional pension should pay him north of $185k per year (indexed), I think he'll be able to handle his bills even if he doesn't choose to go on the speaker circuit, or write a book or three, or whatever else politicians do when they're out of office. Uncle Joe's going to be just fine.

[GreenGoo]

How much more than enough to retire and live comfortably does a person need to accumulate in one lifetime?

Depends on how much they want to leave for their children, I guess.

[GreenGoo]

While I value the idea of securing my future to some degree, I also value the idea of enjoying the only life I have. That equation is different for each person.

You can do both. Listen, if the guy wants to spend every dime he makes because he's got retirement covered, have at it. Maybe it brings him happiness, I don't know. A little financial discipline goes a long way, and it doesn't have to mean having a joyless work-aholic life to do it.

[Fireball]

My net worth is a matter of public record, given my job, but, sadly, most of it is locked away in very illiquid assets, some of which I'd need unanimous consent from various family members to sell off. Given that I'm planning to buy a house in the next couple of months, my actual net worth will basically average out to around $0 until I start building equity.

At least I don't have any student loans!

[Kraken]

Re Biden, are we really going to criticize a career politician for not going out of his way to engorge himself at the public trough? I think he'll be getting along just fine in his retirement years.

It has nothing to do with "engorging". At his salary, for his age, he's not worth nearly enough. Sure he could just be generous or not worried about money matters or just thinks he should spend it since he can't take it with him.

I find it odd that like 1/2 the responders here on OO are worth as much or more than the VP of the USA (for the record I'm using 1/2 a mil as was quoted in some article awhile ago). One of our primary hobbies is playing video games, for heaven's sake.

How much more than enough to retire and live comfortably does a person need to accumulate in one lifetime?

His pension and government health benefits mean that he doesn't really have to save a dime for retirement. He's covered and then some. But it is odd that his net worth is just slightly more than his household annual gross income of around $400K.

I was going to say: If I knew I had a comfortable income guaranteed for life, I wouldn't bother saving anything either.

I have a doctor friend who makes doctor money, but he also gave his three children a free ride through college. Thanks to that, he has no retirement savings and lots of debt. And since two of those three children are now living in his basement playing games all day, it's not like they're ever going to pay him back. What's more, he was diagnosed with cancer 10 years ago so he considers retirement unlikely anyway. He and his wife go to Jamaica a few times a year instead of saving for an iffy future.

My friend earns approximately 25x more than I do...yet on paper I'm worth more than he is. Maybe Biden has a similar story.

[Smutly]

Thanks, Bob Brinker.

Is he still on the radio? We used to listen to him almost every weekend in the early 90's.

No clue, but I can still hear his voice in my head announcing the program. "...and this is Money Talk..."

[Smutly]

So, if it's too late for you, show your children how compounding interest works.

Early in my marriage I thought "Hey, I'll just show her how compound interest works and that will make my case for me".

Turns out, she's not so good at math.

Congrats Smutly, it's nice to see hard work, planning and intelligent money management pay off.

Thanks. My wife was not always 'with the plan' -- in fact disagreement on finances caused a lot of friction at times. When we married we had a joint account. Shortly after the friction, we had separate accounts. We agreed to disagree until she saw that I was rarely stressed about money issues and she was constantly stressed. The spousal issue is a difficult one.

[Moliere]

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Retirement Plans

[Max Peck]

Re Biden, are we really going to criticize a career politician for not going out of his way to engorge himself at the public trough? I think he'll be getting along just fine in his retirement years.

It has nothing to do with "engorging". At his salary, for his age, he's not worth nearly enough. Sure he could just be generous or not worried about money matters or just thinks he should spend it since he can't take it with him.

I find it odd that like 1/2 the responders here on OO are worth as much or more than the VP of the USA (for the record I'm using 1/2 a mil as was quoted in some article awhile ago). One of our primary hobbies is playing video games, for heaven's sake.

How much more than enough to retire and live comfortably does a person need to accumulate in one lifetime?

His pension and government health benefits mean that he doesn't really have to save a dime for retirement. He's covered and then some. But it is odd that his net worth is just slightly more than his household annual gross income of around $400K.

It depends on whether the estimates of his net worth are based on anything other than his public financial disclosure. Note that it does not list the value of his principal residence (as I understand it, that information is not required) but does show that he owns a rental property and has a mortgage liability against his principal residence on the order of $500k-$1M. My guess would be that, like many people, rather than having a mysteriously low net worth, he simply has the bulk of his net worth tied up in real estate, primarily his home.

[LawBeefaroni]

Re Biden, are we really going to criticize a career politician for not going out of his way to engorge himself at the public trough? I think he'll be getting along just fine in his retirement years.

It has nothing to do with "engorging". At his salary, for his age, he's not worth nearly enough. Sure he could just be generous or not worried about money matters or just thinks he should spend it since he can't take it with him.

I find it odd that like 1/2 the responders here on OO are worth as much or more than the VP of the USA (for the record I'm using 1/2 a mil as was quoted in some article awhile ago). One of our primary hobbies is playing video games, for heaven's sake.

How much more than enough to retire and live comfortably does a person need to accumulate in one lifetime?

His pension and government health benefits mean that he doesn't really have to save a dime for retirement. He's covered and then some. But it is odd that his net worth is just slightly more than his household annual gross income of around $400K.

It depends on whether the estimates of his net worth are based on anything other than his public financial disclosure. Note that it does not list the value of his principal residence (as I understand it, that information is not required) but does show that he owns a rental property and has a mortgage liability against his principal residence on the order of $500k-$1M. My guess would be that, like many people, rather than having a mysteriously low net worth, he simply has the bulk of his net worth tied up in real estate, primarily his home.

$1M in mortgage debt isn't counted towards net worth for good reason.

[Max Peck]

Re Biden, are we really going to criticize a career politician for not going out of his way to engorge himself at the public trough? I think he'll be getting along just fine in his retirement years.

It has nothing to do with "engorging". At his salary, for his age, he's not worth nearly enough. Sure he could just be generous or not worried about money matters or just thinks he should spend it since he can't take it with him.

I find it odd that like 1/2 the responders here on OO are worth as much or more than the VP of the USA (for the record I'm using 1/2 a mil as was quoted in some article awhile ago). One of our primary hobbies is playing video games, for heaven's sake.

How much more than enough to retire and live comfortably does a person need to accumulate in one lifetime?

His pension and government health benefits mean that he doesn't really have to save a dime for retirement. He's covered and then some. But it is odd that his net worth is just slightly more than his household annual gross income of around $400K.

It depends on whether the estimates of his net worth are based on anything other than his public financial disclosure. Note that it does not list the value of his principal residence (as I understand it, that information is not required) but does show that he owns a rental property and has a mortgage liability against his principal residence on the order of $500k-$1M. My guess would be that, like many people, rather than having a mysteriously low net worth, he simply has the bulk of his net worth tied up in real estate, primarily his home.

$1M in mortgage debt isn't counted towards net worth for good reason.

What reason would that be? Every net worth calculator I checked includes the value of a primary residence as an asset, and the balance owing on the mortgage as a liability. My poorly articulated point is that we know that he has a substantial mortgage on a principal residence, but we don't know the actual value of that principal residence.