The Presidential Pardon thread
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
Umm, I just read it as not going to appoint a special prosecutor. I don't think it is an indication that FBI/DOJ or congressional investigation would be tossed to the side nor that he desired them to be.
That said I have no problem with people thinking that and deciding Trump isn't so bad after all.
That said I have no problem with people thinking that and deciding Trump isn't so bad after all.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
Max Peck wrote:" He predicted his supporters would not be disappointed because the Trump administration would "save our country" in other ways.
As the news spread, Trump supporters took to Twitter to calmly share their displeasure, voicing polite disagreement with Trump's decision to back away from one of his biggest campaign promises just two weeks after the election.
linkEven Breitbart, the alt-right, pro-Trump website that gave the president-elect favorable coverage and his new lead advisor, Steve Bannon, wasn't happy with the decision.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
Now that she lost she is no longer an imminent threat to the security of our country.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
How so? If anything, he's being consistent with the 85/15 lies-to-truth ratio Politifact tracked throughout the campaign. Who besides knucklehead Kool-aide drinkers think a president who lies 85% of the time isn't so bad?Rip wrote:Umm, I just read it as not going to appoint a special prosecutor. I don't think it is an indication that FBI/DOJ or congressional investigation would be tossed to the side nor that he desired them to be.
That said I have no problem with people thinking that and deciding Trump isn't so bad after all.
Black Lives Matter
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
Priorities.Jeff V wrote:How so? If anything, he's being consistent with the 85/15 lies-to-truth ratio Politifact tracked throughout the campaign. Who besides knucklehead Kool-aide drinkers think a president who lies 85% of the time isn't so bad?Rip wrote:Umm, I just read it as not going to appoint a special prosecutor. I don't think it is an indication that FBI/DOJ or congressional investigation would be tossed to the side nor that he desired them to be.
That said I have no problem with people thinking that and deciding Trump isn't so bad after all.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
It's funny if you imagine Alec Baldwin saying it.Rip wrote:Priorities.Jeff V wrote:How so? If anything, he's being consistent with the 85/15 lies-to-truth ratio Politifact tracked throughout the campaign. Who besides knucklehead Kool-aide drinkers think a president who lies 85% of the time isn't so bad?Rip wrote:Umm, I just read it as not going to appoint a special prosecutor. I don't think it is an indication that FBI/DOJ or congressional investigation would be tossed to the side nor that he desired them to be.
That said I have no problem with people thinking that and deciding Trump isn't so bad after all.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
President Obama Grants 153 Commutations and 78 Pardons to Individuals Deserving of a Second Chance
Today, President Obama granted clemency to 231 deserving individuals — the most individual acts of clemency granted in a single day by any president in this nation’s history. With today’s 153 commutations, the President has now commuted the sentences of 1,176 individuals, including 395 life sentences. The President also granted pardons to 78 individuals, bringing his total number of pardons to 148. Today’s acts of clemency — and the mercy the President has shown his 1,324 clemency recipients — exemplify his belief that America is a nation of second chances.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
Obama Surpasses Wilson's Commutation Record
Obama's commutation total is less impressive as a share of federal prisoners (less than 1 percent) or as a share of the petitions he has received (4.3 percent, which makes him much more merciful than his four most recent predecessors, substantially more merciful than Jimmy Carter, about as merciful as Gerald Ford, and less merciful than Richard Nixon). But it is remarkable that Obama managed as many commutations as he did, given his very slow start. He shortened just one sentence during his first term and just 21 during his first six years. More than 98 percent of his commutations were granted in the last two years of his administration, 87 percent of them since last March.
While presidents do tend to concentrate acts of clemency toward the end of their terms, nothing like Obama's wait-and-hurry-up pattern has ever been seen before. Clemency expert P.S. Ruckman Jr. calculates that Obama's fourth-year clemency surge in his current term is about 18 times as big as the presidential average. Another way of putting it: Obama has tried hard to make up for lost time.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
Well, rip, you should be happy.
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I wonder what changed since June:The White House says President Donald Trump has pardoned a Navy sailor who took photos of classified areas inside a submarine and served a year in federal prison.
White House spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders says Kristian Saucier was pardoned by Trump and said the president was "appreciative" of his service to the country.
Sanders says Saucier had been recognized by service members "for his dedication, skill and patriotic spirit."
The sailor pleaded guilty in 2016 to unauthorized detention of defense information for taking photos inside the USS Alexandria while it was stationed in Groton, Connecticut, in 2009.
Trump's election brought hope to Saucier's family that the new president would pardon the sailor, but the administration denied a pardon request in June.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
It would be hilarious for Trump to create an official pardon for Hillary's email scandal. All in the name of moving on, of course.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
Best take I've seen is that this is meant to send a signal to Manafort and Cohen and anyone else that he will pardon them for whatever.
Scooter Libby has no connection to Trump, and Trump is obviously no friend of the Bushes. There's no independent reason he would decide to pardon a Bush loyalist who had his sentence commuted years ago and who is now doing quite well as a lobbyist.
Scooter Libby has no connection to Trump, and Trump is obviously no friend of the Bushes. There's no independent reason he would decide to pardon a Bush loyalist who had his sentence commuted years ago and who is now doing quite well as a lobbyist.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
AP
[T]he Libby case has been criticized by conservatives, who argue he was the victim of an overly zealous and politically motivated prosecution by a special counsel. Another twist is that the special counsel, Patrick Fitzgerald, was appointed by James Comey, deputy attorney general at the time. Comey later became head of the FBI, but was fired by Trump, and has since written a book highly critical of the president.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
https://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-stand ... orego.htmlPresident Donald Trump on Tuesday commuted the sentences of two eastern Oregon ranchers serving time in federal prison for setting fire to public land in a case that inflamed their supporters and gave rise to the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
Can you imagine if a non-white person did the same things and got a commutation/pardon? Neither can I because it wouldn't happen. Trump is fucking *dangerous*. Are people going to wake up to that reality?
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
If he's on your team, he's not dangerous he's MAGA.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
He is literally building a coalition the way a mob boss would. This is blindingly obvious at this point.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
I don't know about this one. The judge gave them 5 years as it was the mandatory minimum. They argued to *someone* (article doesn't say) that it was unconstitutional and won and so they got 1 year. They served 1 year. After they got out, the prosecutors came back and said it wasn't unconstitutional and through appeals they had them return to jail for the rest of the term. They ended up serving about 3 years each. This was for burning 189 acres of federal grazing land.
Doesn't seem completely unreasonable to me.
Doesn't seem completely unreasonable to me.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
Edit: Removed confusing idiom. The bottom line is that the reasonableness of the commutation is part of the appeal. However, that isn't why he is doing it. He isn't a reasonable person but he'll find reasonable edge cases to make it appear so.stessier wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:00 pm I don't know about this one. The judge gave them 5 years as it was the mandatory minimum. They argued to *someone* (article doesn't say) that it was unconstitutional and won and so they got 1 year. They served 1 year. After they got out, the prosecutors came back and said it wasn't unconstitutional and through appeals they had them return to jail for the rest of the term. They ended up serving about 3 years each. This was for burning 189 acres of federal grazing land.
Doesn't seem completely unreasonable to me.
Last edited by malchior on Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
Didn't think you'd be a fan of mandatory minimums.malchior wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:03 pmOther than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?stessier wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:00 pm I don't know about this one. The judge gave them 5 years as it was the mandatory minimum. They argued to *someone* (article doesn't say) that it was unconstitutional and won and so they got 1 year. They served 1 year. After they got out, the prosecutors came back and said it wasn't unconstitutional and through appeals they had them return to jail for the rest of the term. They ended up serving about 3 years each. This was for burning 189 acres of federal grazing land.
Doesn't seem completely unreasonable to me.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
My feelings on mandatory minimums has nothing to do with it. Everyone latching onto the false narrative that he spins to build his power base - I care about that a whole lot.stessier wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:05 pmDidn't think you'd be a fan of mandatory minimums.malchior wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:03 pmOther than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?stessier wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:00 pm I don't know about this one. The judge gave them 5 years as it was the mandatory minimum. They argued to *someone* (article doesn't say) that it was unconstitutional and won and so they got 1 year. They served 1 year. After they got out, the prosecutors came back and said it wasn't unconstitutional and through appeals they had them return to jail for the rest of the term. They ended up serving about 3 years each. This was for burning 189 acres of federal grazing land.
Doesn't seem completely unreasonable to me.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
I think the reasonableness is exactly the point. Feel free to flip out when he does stupid stuff, but flipping out on the reasonable stuff makes the justified flip outs less noteworthy/effective.malchior wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:03 pmEdit: Removed confusing idiom. The bottom line is that the reasonableness of the commutation is part of the appeal. However, that isn't why he is doing it. He isn't a reasonable person but he'll find reasonable edge cases to make it appear so.stessier wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:00 pm I don't know about this one. The judge gave them 5 years as it was the mandatory minimum. They argued to *someone* (article doesn't say) that it was unconstitutional and won and so they got 1 year. They served 1 year. After they got out, the prosecutors came back and said it wasn't unconstitutional and through appeals they had them return to jail for the rest of the term. They ended up serving about 3 years each. This was for burning 189 acres of federal grazing land.
Doesn't seem completely unreasonable to me.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
The reasonableness is the cover. It is *obvious*. You think they picked this commutation out of the pile to show that they are reasonable? For godsakes man.stessier wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:09 pmI think the reasonableness is exactly the point. Feel free to flip out when he does stupid stuff, but flipping out on the reasonable stuff makes the justified flip outs less noteworthy/effective.malchior wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:03 pmEdit: Removed confusing idiom. The bottom line is that the reasonableness of the commutation is part of the appeal. However, that isn't why he is doing it. He isn't a reasonable person but he'll find reasonable edge cases to make it appear so.stessier wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:00 pm I don't know about this one. The judge gave them 5 years as it was the mandatory minimum. They argued to *someone* (article doesn't say) that it was unconstitutional and won and so they got 1 year. They served 1 year. After they got out, the prosecutors came back and said it wasn't unconstitutional and through appeals they had them return to jail for the rest of the term. They ended up serving about 3 years each. This was for burning 189 acres of federal grazing land.
Doesn't seem completely unreasonable to me.
Edit: Blind "centrism" that ignored the narrative is literally what got us into this mess.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
I'm sorry, I'm lost. I don't know what you're arguing. I'm saying the commutation was reasonable. That's it. I'm not saying this makes him a good president or upstanding human or that it makes me want to vote for him. Of the things to get worked up over, this is not one.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
My argument is that if your test for things is pure reasonableness then you are missing the big picture. Small "reasonable" decisions that signaled aka dog whistled to voters where the politicians *really* stood got us to this moment in time.stessier wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:17 pm I'm sorry, I'm lost. I don't know what you're arguing. I'm saying the commutation was reasonable. That's it. I'm not saying this makes him a good president or upstanding human or that it makes me want to vote for him. Of the things to get worked up over, this is not one.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
You forgot the tease:Defiant wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:02 amhttps://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-stand ... orego.htmlPresident Donald Trump on Tuesday commuted the sentences of two eastern Oregon ranchers serving time in federal prison for setting fire to public land in a case that inflamed their supporters and gave rise to the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
This week, on celebrity pardons...!
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
Yea, you should totally freak out over everything he does. As planned.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
Was the sentence commuted, or were they pardoned? There's a difference between making a statement that the sentence was too harsh or that they did nothing wrong.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
Pot. Kettle. White.Rip wrote:Yea, you should totally freak out over everything he does. As planned.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
I should have said this too. That it was a pardon only makes the point stronger. This was a clear message to his base.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
Not when you are freaking out the people who would do anything to prevent you from governing. It causes them to make all kinds of crazy predictions and show just how looney they can be.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
These dumbfucks pardoned today started way more than one fire and many of them were started on Red Flag days and a number of them endangered fire fighters and other people using federal lands. Hammonds are also known child-abusers (they sandpapered off an initials tat on their son's chest to teach him a lesson). The 139 acre fire was from 2001 when they knowingly put a guide and his clients lives in danger all to cover up an illegal deer hunt on federal land; and we also know they aarsoned a bunch of fires on a Red Flag/fire ban day in 2006 that endangered fire fighters. What comes out is that we know specifically about these two main incidents, but it seems very likely from their own testimony that the Hammonds have been committing arson frequently for years on federal lands in the area in addition to taking down fencing and getting into regular threatening standoffs with wildlife refugee employees who feared for their lives.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
The changed from commuted sentenced to pardon, why?
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread
Well, the Congressman did say it was a "unique way of life in the high desert, rural West".Enough wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:24 pm These dumbfucks pardoned today started way more than one fire and many of them were started on Red Flag days and a number of them endangered fire fighters and other people using federal lands. Hammonds are also known child-abusers (they sandpapered off an initials tat on their son's chest to teach him a lesson). The 139 acre fire was from 2001 when they knowingly put a guide and his clients lives in danger all to cover up an illegal deer hunt on federal land; and we also know they aarsoned a bunch of fires on a Red Flag/fire ban day in 2006 that endangered fire fighters. What comes out is that we know specifically about these two main incidents, but it seems very likely from their own testimony that the Hammonds have been committing arson frequently for years on federal lands in the area in addition to taking down fencing and getting into regular threatening standoffs with wildlife refugee employees who feared for their lives.
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Re: The Governor Pardon thread
USA Today
More than 400 inmates in Oklahoma will be released Mondayafter a law signed this year retroactively reduced the sentences for individuals who committed low-level crimes.
The Oklahoma Pardon and Parole Board approved the commutation of 462 inmates unanimously, and on Friday, Gov. Kevin Stitt’s office has processed the recommendations for final approval. It is the largest mass commutation – or reduction of a sentencing – in U.S. history.
...
In 2016, referendums passed in Oklahoma made simple drug possession a misdemeanor instead of a felony and raised the threshold of felony property crimes – including theft, vandalism, shoplifting and robbery – up to $1,000. Earlier this year, Stitt, a Republican, signed a law that would apply these changes retroactively for current inmates.
...
The board considered 814 eligible cases, and 527 were recommended for a lesser penalty given the severity of those crimes. Sixty-five of those individuals are still held on detainers.
It's almost as if people are the problem.