Shutdown
Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus
- Sepiche
- Posts: 8112
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:00 pm
- Location: Olathe, KS
Re: Shutdown
Dems got a 6 year extension on Chip and a promise for a vote on DACA. McConnell might well go back on his promise, but they at least got the Chip extension and a decent cudgel to hit Republicans with if they go back on the DACA vote.
- Blackhawk
- Posts: 43845
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
- Location: Southwest Indiana
Re: Shutdown
And with the extension already in place, the Rs have one less bargaining chip they can hold over Democrats' heads.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
- Pyperkub
- Posts: 23659
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
- Location: NC- that's Northern California
Re: Shutdown
I see what you did there
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- Blackhawk
- Posts: 43845
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
- Location: Southwest Indiana
Re: Shutdown
Yes, because I'm clever and clearly had that in mind when I wrote it. Clearly.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
- em2nought
- Posts: 5369
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:48 am
Re: Shutdown
With the "dead men tell no tales", I was implying that "dead" voters aren't going to complain that somebody voted democrat in their place. I can see how you could become so easily confused though.
two months
- gbasden
- Posts: 7670
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:57 am
- Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: Shutdown
Yes, with the plethora of right wing fantasies it's easy to mistake one for another.
- Zarathud
- Posts: 16515
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
- Location: Chicago, Illinois
Re: Shutdown
It's also easy to overlook evidence of real live Republican vote tampering -- by Republican voters, poll watchers discouraging black voters, robocalls suppressing turnout, voter statutes with the express purpose of reducing voting, districting, fraudulent votes by campaign operatives, fake commissions that never bother to look at facts, sustained foreign election interference, etc.
But, you know, it's the zombie voters who are the real problem.
It's like a bad schlock horror film set to repeat.
But, you know, it's the zombie voters who are the real problem.
It's like a bad schlock horror film set to repeat.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
- pr0ner
- Posts: 17429
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia, VA
- Contact:
- El Guapo
- Posts: 41314
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
- Location: Boston
Re: Shutdown
Indeed. Though one question is whether, when it comes down to it, Democrats would trade full DACA legalization for the wall. I don't doubt that they would trade a lot of border security stuff for it, including wall-related stuff (like border monitoring technology that could be called a quasi-wall, or a portion of a wall covering some amount of the border (like exists now). And if democrats ultimately decide that they can live with a wall-for-DACA trade, would Trump / Stephen Miller then actually accept that deal?
Black Lives Matter.
- Chaz
- Posts: 7381
- Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:37 am
- Location: Southern NH
Re: Shutdown
I wonder if you could make the deal "you get funding for the wall, but the funding is doled out in increments, and each increment has to be approved by Congress according to a set of success criteria." Then you just wait for the administration to trip all over themselves in actually implementing, because of course they will.
Hell, you could make the criteria that the wall adhere to the President's own claims about it, and then it'll never happen.
Hell, you could make the criteria that the wall adhere to the President's own claims about it, and then it'll never happen.
I can't imagine, even at my most inebriated, hearing a bouncer offering me an hour with a stripper for only $1,400 and thinking That sounds like a reasonable idea.-Two Sheds
- Jaymann
- Posts: 19475
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
- Location: California
Re: Shutdown
The Wall is like Reagan's "star wars" - a money pit that won't work. I think it is more about the TIC wanting a monument to his dick that can be seen from space.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
- msteelers
- Posts: 7173
- Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:30 pm
- Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida
- Contact:
Re: Shutdown
Wasn't that already on the table? Schumer told Trump he would fund the wall, but Trump and his cronies suddenly wanted more money.El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:43 am Indeed. Though one question is whether, when it comes down to it, Democrats would trade full DACA legalization for the wall. I don't doubt that they would trade a lot of border security stuff for it, including wall-related stuff (like border monitoring technology that could be called a quasi-wall, or a portion of a wall covering some amount of the border (like exists now). And if democrats ultimately decide that they can live with a wall-for-DACA trade, would Trump / Stephen Miller then actually accept that deal?
I know Schumer pulled that deal after the shutdown ended, but I have to imagine that he would put it back on the table if it led to full DACA legalization. I also think the vast majority of the country would be ok with it. The wall is a monumentally stupid idea, and will be extremely expensive... but if it's what Trump and the Republicans need to do the right thing on DACA, so be it.
- Smoove_B
- Posts: 54702
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
- Location: Kaer Morhen
Re: Shutdown
I don't understand why the cost of the wall keeps coming up as I thought Mexico was paying for it. Why is that even a negotiation point? Oh, because it was total nonsense? Mark my words, as we get closer to 2/8, the funding discussions will ramp up again and it will all fall apart.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- El Guapo
- Posts: 41314
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
- Location: Boston
Re: Shutdown
Black Lives Matter.
- Kraken
- Posts: 43779
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
- Location: The Hub of the Universe
- Contact:
Re: Shutdown
The trick for approving any boondoggle like Trump's wall is to make people other than Trump benefit by spreading money around. The wall itself is pointless, and nobody cares about it except Trump and his stooges. Getting one's hooks into those billions, however, stirs the shriveled black heart of any congressperson. They need to find a way to spread the bucks beyond a few border states, because what's one more graft & corruption appropriation?
- El Guapo
- Posts: 41314
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
- Location: Boston
Re: Shutdown
If Manchin threatened to not run for re-election if the shutdown continued, that would explain a lot. Manchin not running for reelection would change that seat to a likely democratic hold to a virtual lock Republican pickup, which would in turn virtually kill the democrats hopes of taking the Senate in 2018. 6 years of CHIP + a McConnell promise of a DACA vote + Manchin running for reelection is an easy decision for Schumer.
Black Lives Matter.
- Sepiche
- Posts: 8112
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:00 pm
- Location: Olathe, KS
Re: Shutdown
It's also unlikely to be completed under this president, and will likely be scuttled by whomever follows 45.
-
- Posts: 24795
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm
Re: Shutdown
True enough. That fucking moron is going to throw a hand grenade into the converstaion and frack everyone. Guaranteed. In fact, they should have picked 2/9. If they shutdown again at least they can lock him in a room again since he hates working on the weekend.Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:14 pm I don't understand why the cost of the wall keeps coming up as I thought Mexico was paying for it. Why is that even a negotiation point? Oh, because it was total nonsense? Mark my words, as we get closer to 2/8, the funding discussions will ramp up again and it will all fall apart.
- Isgrimnur
- Posts: 82284
- Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
- Location: Chookity pok
- Contact:
- El Guapo
- Posts: 41314
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
- Location: Boston
Re: Shutdown
The only plausible route to building the wall and having Mexico "pay for it" is:
(1) Get Congress to pay for the wall somehow (like, say, part of this DACA deal).
(2) Fuck with Mexico (say over NAFTA), and work out some settlement (even if it's mostly in Mexico's favor) that involves Mexico making some type of payment to the U.S.
(3) Say "the wall is being built and Mexico is paying for it", pointing to the wall construction and money coming in from Mexico. Does not matter if this accurately describes the payments from Mexico (since the target is not people smart enough to notice the details here).
(1) Get Congress to pay for the wall somehow (like, say, part of this DACA deal).
(2) Fuck with Mexico (say over NAFTA), and work out some settlement (even if it's mostly in Mexico's favor) that involves Mexico making some type of payment to the U.S.
(3) Say "the wall is being built and Mexico is paying for it", pointing to the wall construction and money coming in from Mexico. Does not matter if this accurately describes the payments from Mexico (since the target is not people smart enough to notice the details here).
Black Lives Matter.
-
- Posts: 5440
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:21 pm
- Location: San Gabriel, CA
Re: Shutdown
They should have voted to fund through the 16th instead. I love the thought of him sitting inside the White House during Presidents Day weekend.malchior wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:30 pmTrue enough. That fucking moron is going to throw a hand grenade into the converstaion and frack everyone. Guaranteed. In fact, they should have picked 2/9. If they shutdown again at least they can lock him in a room again since he hates working on the weekend.Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:14 pm I don't understand why the cost of the wall keeps coming up as I thought Mexico was paying for it. Why is that even a negotiation point? Oh, because it was total nonsense? Mark my words, as we get closer to 2/8, the funding discussions will ramp up again and it will all fall apart.
Black Lives Matter
- Remus West
- Posts: 33592
- Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 5:39 pm
- Location: Not in Westland
Re: Shutdown
I hate the thought of him sitting in the White House.Biyobi wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:34 pmThey should have voted to fund through the 16th instead. I love the thought of him sitting inside the White House during Presidents Day weekend.malchior wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:30 pmTrue enough. That fucking moron is going to throw a hand grenade into the converstaion and frack everyone. Guaranteed. In fact, they should have picked 2/9. If they shutdown again at least they can lock him in a room again since he hates working on the weekend.Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:14 pm I don't understand why the cost of the wall keeps coming up as I thought Mexico was paying for it. Why is that even a negotiation point? Oh, because it was total nonsense? Mark my words, as we get closer to 2/8, the funding discussions will ramp up again and it will all fall apart.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
- YellowKing
- Posts: 30194
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Re: Shutdown
I love how the master of the "Art of the Deal" thinks the best way to negotiate is to call the guy you're trying to broker a deal with childish nicknames.
I think part of the shutdown deal should have been to shut down Trump's Twitter account for a week. Just a goddamn week. That's all I ask.
I think part of the shutdown deal should have been to shut down Trump's Twitter account for a week. Just a goddamn week. That's all I ask.
- $iljanus
- Forum Moderator
- Posts: 13689
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 pm
- Location: New England...or under your bed
Re: Shutdown
Did you mean shitting on the White House?Remus West wrote:I hate the thought of him sitting in the White House.Biyobi wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:34 pmThey should have voted to fund through the 16th instead. I love the thought of him sitting inside the White House during Presidents Day weekend.malchior wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:30 pmTrue enough. That fucking moron is going to throw a hand grenade into the converstaion and frack everyone. Guaranteed. In fact, they should have picked 2/9. If they shutdown again at least they can lock him in a room again since he hates working on the weekend.Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:14 pm I don't understand why the cost of the wall keeps coming up as I thought Mexico was paying for it. Why is that even a negotiation point? Oh, because it was total nonsense? Mark my words, as we get closer to 2/8, the funding discussions will ramp up again and it will all fall apart.
Black lives matter!
Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
- hitbyambulance
- Posts: 10260
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:51 am
- Location: Map Ref 47.6°N 122.35°W
- Contact:
Re: Shutdown
would any wall-supporters here explain why they believe the wall is necessary? they don't even have to cite anything, just speak their opinion.
- em2nought
- Posts: 5369
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:48 am
Re: Shutdown
Because a border minefield is frowned upon.hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:52 pm would any wall-supporters here explain why they believe the wall is necessary? they don't even have to cite anything, just speak their opinion.
two months
- Holman
- Posts: 28977
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
- Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon
Re: Shutdown
Ah. Now "MAGA" means posting pics of immigrants being killed.
I think you've posted that one before. You must be real proud of it.
I think you've posted that one before. You must be real proud of it.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- em2nought
- Posts: 5369
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:48 am
- hepcat
- Posts: 51483
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
- Remus West
- Posts: 33592
- Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 5:39 pm
- Location: Not in Westland
Re: Shutdown
Because thinking of him as an innocent child would bring you to close to admitting your prejudice?
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
- LawBeefaroni
- Forum Moderator
- Posts: 55361
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
- Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything
Re: Shutdown
em2nought, you're not really adding anything to the discussion with that photo.
It's not funny and not even shocking. It's just dumb (a minefield would be ineffective for anything but killing random individuals) and regurgitation of a racist "meme", regardless of your intent.
The most telling thing is that that's your response to an earnest question about a proposed wall.
It's not funny and not even shocking. It's just dumb (a minefield would be ineffective for anything but killing random individuals) and regurgitation of a racist "meme", regardless of your intent.
The most telling thing is that that's your response to an earnest question about a proposed wall.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
- em2nought
- Posts: 5369
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:48 am
Re: Shutdown
Personally, I'd rather just give Israel a strip of our land along our entire southern border with Mexico, giving them a plan "B" for when Iran nukes their current location.
Looks like 1.8 million future democrat indoctrinated voters is being offered on the table, winning not!
Looks like 1.8 million future democrat indoctrinated voters is being offered on the table, winning not!
two months
- Pyperkub
- Posts: 23659
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
- Location: NC- that's Northern California
Re: Shutdown
I don't really give a crap about the wall, except for the cost. If the GOP and the people who voted them into the monopoly want to waste a ton of money on the wall, it's what we as a nation voted for (even if it's a colossally stupid waste of money, and won't actually do much). However, I want a funding source. The GOP doesn't get to put everything they want on the credit card and say that tax cuts will pay for it, or bypass paygo and rip the funds out of social security/medicare.
Why isn't there a gofundme for it?
Why isn't there a gofundme for it?
Last edited by Pyperkub on Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- Pyperkub
- Posts: 23659
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
- Location: NC- that's Northern California
Re: Shutdown
so your solution is to have the jews pay for it instead of Mexico?...em2nought wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:01 pm Personally, I'd rather just give Israel a strip of our land along our entire southern border with Mexico, giving them a plan "B" for when Iran nukes their current location.
Looks like 1.8 million future democrat indoctrinated voters is being offered on the table, winning not!
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- Alefroth
- Posts: 8556
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
- Location: Bellingham WA
Re: Shutdown
I don't really care about the cost. What's another $25B. I care about the impact the construction will have on the environment and those who live in the way.Pyperkub wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:21 pm I don't really give a crap about the wall, except for the cost. If the GOP and the people who voted them into the monopoly want to waste a ton of money on the wall, it's what we as a nation voted for (even if it's a colossally stupid waste of money, and won't actually do much). However, I want a funding source. The GOP doesn't get to put everything they want on the credit card and say that tax cuts will pay for it, or bypass paygo and rip the funds out of social security/medicare.
Why isn't there a gofundme for it?
- Chaz
- Posts: 7381
- Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:37 am
- Location: Southern NH
Re: Shutdown
I do care about the cost, because we know damn well that the GOP will find the money by cutting assistance programs for poor folks and urban areas.
I can't imagine, even at my most inebriated, hearing a bouncer offering me an hour with a stripper for only $1,400 and thinking That sounds like a reasonable idea.-Two Sheds
- Skinypupy
- Posts: 20392
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
- Location: Utah
Re: Shutdown
This. So damn much this.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
- Smoove_B
- Posts: 54702
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
- Location: Kaer Morhen
Re: Shutdown
Go ahead, guess who said, "I'd love to see a shutdown", as the deadline approaches. Additionally:
If lawmakers do not agree to an immigration deal before Thursday's government funding deadline, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has said he would hold an open debate on the issue.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- pr0ner
- Posts: 17429
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia, VA
- Contact:
Re: Shutdown
It's pretty bad when a member of Trump's own party, Barbara Comstock, tells him a shutdown is a bad idea and he just shot her down.
Hodor.
- El Guapo
- Posts: 41314
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
- Location: Boston