The Former Trump Presidency Thread

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Holman
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Holman »

Kind of wondering whether top ZTE execs are buying Trump/Kushner properties...
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Fitzy »

The ZTE thing is weird. I don’t recall Trump ever mentioning foreign jobs. Except as stealing American ones of course.

Maybe the pee tape migrated to China?
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Holman »

Trump of course declines to condemn Putin, but he is always constantly effusive in his praise of his "friend" Xi.

Trump family members have a *lot* of economic interests in China and China's clients.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GreenGoo »

This is the first time that the Presidency has been for sale to foreign powers (that I'm aware of).

But, you know. #MAGA and drain the swamp and emails. Oh, and the most important one right now, stigginit.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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What is comical is that he has you guys so confused you are complaining he is starting a cold/trade war with China one day, and accusing him of sucking up to them the next.

:clap:
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Biyobi »

Rip wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 5:27 pm What is comical is that he has you guys so confused you are complaining he is starting a cold/trade war with China one day, and accusing him of sucking up to them the next.

:clap:
The check obviously cleared.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LordMortis »

GreenGoo wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 5:18 pm This is the first time that the Presidency has been for sale to foreign powers (that I'm aware of).

But, you know. #MAGA and drain the swamp and emails. Oh, and the most important one right now, stigginit.
Clinton walked a fine line. President Honey Badger don't care bout no lines. Of course, why should he? He knows he can literally do no wrong.
What is comical is that he has you guys so confused you are complaining he is starting a cold/trade war with China one day, and accusing him of sucking up to them the next.

:clap:

That said, Rip is right until evidence proves otherwise.
That said, the Rip, the GOP, the administration, the extended first family, and those within his "divested" orbit have earned exactly zero benefit of the doubt. And it is my natural assumption that Trump is trying to leverage his rubles only investments structure by trying to diversify in to yuan. After all we need to tank the dollar, as or our lord and savior has commanded.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GreenGoo »

Rip wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 5:27 pm What is comical is that he has you guys so confused you are complaining he is starting a cold/trade war with China one day, and accusing him of sucking up to them the next.

:clap:
Are you fucking serious?

*We're* not the ones confused.

He IS doing both those things, and somehow that's *our* failing? Geezus Rip, you don't give a shit as long as you find things to stigginit about. You might as well be a bot at this point.

Ok, let me ask you this. What do you think Drumpf is trying to accomplish if he does in fact work with the Chinese government to help a Chinese telecom? What's the end game on that? Is this one of those times that Drumpf is stupid like a fox, or some other magical explanation?

Xi has been giving him a handjob, and this is Xi's reward. American presidencies come cheap. So do Americans, apparently.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GreenGoo »

LordMortis wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 6:03 pm That said, Rip is right until evidence proves otherwise.
Right. We're confused. Got it.

Not knowing what random MchowdoIfeeltoday is going to do next is not the same as being confused.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Third term for Obama? OK.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Rip »

Pyperkub wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 10:33 pm Third term for Obama? OK.

Who?
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by hepcat »

I can relate, I’ve almost forgotten what a real president is too.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Alefroth »

Rip wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 5:27 pm What is comical is that he has you guys so confused you are complaining he is starting a cold/trade war with China one day, and accusing him of sucking up to them the next.

:clap:
As long as you get to sit back and clap, right?
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Skinypupy »

White dudes shooting up the place? Not even worth mentioning. Black dude stops a mass shooting? Not a peep. Attacker in Paris was Muslim? OMG...MUST RAGE TWEET!


So sad to see the Terror Attack in Paris. At some point countries will have to open their eyes & see what is really going on. This kind of sickness & hatred is not compatible with a loving, peaceful, & successful country! Changes to our thought process on terror must be made.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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See? Guns don't kill people, Muslims with knives do.

Hopefully homeland security gets the budget increase they need to deal with this existential threat. And if everyone trying to get on a plane could strip to their underwear, that would be great. Thanks.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Skinypupy wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 12:08 am White dudes shooting up the place? Not even worth mentioning. Black dude stops a mass shooting? Not a peep. Attacker in Paris was Muslim? OMG...MUST RAGE TWEET!
So sad to see the Terror Attack in Paris. At some point countries will have to open their eyes & see what is really going on. This kind of sickness & hatred is not compatible with a loving, peaceful, & successful country! Changes to our thought process on terror must be made.
I really don't think it's fair of you to blame Trump for what Fox decides to report.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Octavious »

Good to see one of Trumps bullshit moves getting a bunch of a people killed. Nobody saw this coming... :doh:
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Rip »

They chose to riot. Dying is a result of their choices not his.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Rip wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 10:43 am They chose to riot. Dying is a result of their choices not his.
Riots were a very predictable outcome of his asinine decision. His job precludes making unnecessary decisions that cost peoples lives. What do you think America gained through moving the Embassy versus what did we lose (or negatives that we gained due to greater antipathy directed at us due to this mess)?
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Remus West wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 10:58 am
Rip wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 10:43 am They chose to riot. Dying is a result of their choices not his.
Riots were a very predictable outcome of his asinine decision. His job precludes making unnecessary decisions that cost peoples lives. What do you think America gained through moving the Embassy versus what did we lose (or negatives that we gained due to greater antipathy directed at us due to this mess)?
It's interesting. I think there's a strong case that having the embassy in West Jerusalem is the correct thing to do. However, even taking that as the correct decision, there are always going to be downsides and risks, and execution issues. And even where I kind of agree with the basic decision, I have zero faith that those downsides and tradeoffs are adequately planned for, and negative faith in this administration's execution.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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I agree with Trump's decision, even if I thought it could have been carried out better (it could have been done in a more diplomatic manner, doing behind the scenes work to get other countries aboard at the start, although I will say I am somewhat impressed that 30 other countries are attending today's ceremony).

As to the protests and attempts to breach the border, this has been going on for months. And we would still have seen something similar had Trump not made the decision he made. From bombings to rockets to tunneling to this, the Palestinian terrorist groups have routinely changed their method of carrying out attacks in the hopes of finding something more effective. It was only a matter of time.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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El Guapo wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 11:03 am I think there's a strong case that having the embassy in West Jerusalem is the correct thing to do.
Why? I understand that a lot of people want it there but that doesn't mean it is the correct thing to do.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Remus West wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 11:36 am
El Guapo wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 11:03 am I think there's a strong case that having the embassy in West Jerusalem is the correct thing to do.
Why? I understand that a lot of people want it there but that doesn't mean it is the correct thing to do.
Because West Jerusalem isn't a part of any Palestinian claim*, and thus isn't disputed territory?


* Well, by those willing to negotiate. There's are also, of course, those who want every part of Israel and want to get rid of the Jews.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Rip wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 5:27 pm What is comical is that he has you guys so confused you are complaining he is starting a cold/trade war with China one day, and accusing him of sucking up to them the next.

:clap:
Confused or just very aware that he is using the office of President to fuck the average American and anyone else that may be collateral damage to the goal of lining his own pockets? Because I don't feel very confused at all. Just very angry.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Defiant wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 11:39 am
Remus West wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 11:36 am
El Guapo wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 11:03 am I think there's a strong case that having the embassy in West Jerusalem is the correct thing to do.
Why? I understand that a lot of people want it there but that doesn't mean it is the correct thing to do.
Because West Jerusalem isn't a part of any Palestinian claim, and thus isn't disputed territory?
Jerusalem is the issue. What is the gain versus what is the cost? What makes it the right thing to do?
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Remus West wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 11:47 am
Jerusalem is the issue. What is the gain versus what is the cost? What makes it the right thing to do?
Except West Jerusalem is the issue. if that land is not disputed, and the country considers it it's capital, why should we not host our embassy there, as we do in every other country? Why should a third party - in this case, Hamas in the Gaza strip carrying out these riots - dictate to us where our embassy should be?
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Defiant wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 11:39 am
Remus West wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 11:36 am
El Guapo wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 11:03 am I think there's a strong case that having the embassy in West Jerusalem is the correct thing to do.
Why? I understand that a lot of people want it there but that doesn't mean it is the correct thing to do.
Because West Jerusalem isn't a part of any Palestinian claim*, and thus isn't disputed territory?


* Well, by those willing to negotiate.
Basically. Jerusalem *is* the capital of Israel, and the capital city is where we put our embassies, even when we have significant disputes with the relevant country (as long as we have any embassy at all, of course). And West Jerusalem (according to U.S. policy, and basic logic) is going to remain part of Israel long-term under any conceivable long-term agreement other than the straight-up annihilation of Israel. If anything, keeping the embassy in Tel Aviv implicitly treats Israeli sovereignty over West Jerusalem as something subject to reasonable dispute, when it's really not.

But again, even accepting that West Jerusalem is the right place to have the U.S. embassy, that leaves up for debate the when and how of moving the embassy, which are certainly big issues. And I wouldn't trust the Trump administration to oversee helping an old lady to cross the street, let alone complicated and sensitive international diplomatic issues.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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El Guapo wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 11:54 am And I wouldn't trust the Trump administration to oversee helping an old lady to cross the street,
Depends on the lady. I'd have no probably with Trump overseeing this one across the street. ;)

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Remus West wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 10:58 am
Rip wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 10:43 am They chose to riot. Dying is a result of their choices not his.
Riots were a very predictable outcome of his asinine decision. His job precludes making unnecessary decisions that cost peoples lives. What do you think America gained through moving the Embassy versus what did we lose (or negatives that we gained due to greater antipathy directed at us due to this mess)?
A bunch of terrorists rioting is no reason to not do something that is the right thing, this was the right thing to do.

Israel is and will always be a state and Jerusalem is the capital. It is where the embassy belongs.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Rip wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 12:16 pm
Remus West wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 10:58 am
Rip wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 10:43 am They chose to riot. Dying is a result of their choices not his.
Riots were a very predictable outcome of his asinine decision. His job precludes making unnecessary decisions that cost peoples lives. What do you think America gained through moving the Embassy versus what did we lose (or negatives that we gained due to greater antipathy directed at us due to this mess)?
A bunch of terrorists rioting is no reason to not do something that is the right thing, this was the right thing to do.

Israel is and will always be a state and Jerusalem is the capital. It is where the embassy belongs.
Not everyone protesting is a terrorist. Although the numbers of them will certainly grow due to today's events. So I ask again. Given the cost why is it the right thing? If you can not come back to me with something better than "we traditionally have our embassy in the nation's capital" then you're losing. What have we gained through this move? What have we lost?
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Remus West wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 12:45 pm
Not everyone protesting is a terrorist. Although the numbers of them will certainly grow due to today's events. So I ask again. Given the cost why is it the right thing? If you can not come back to me with something better than "we traditionally have our embassy in the nation's capital" then you're losing. What have we gained through this move? What have we lost?
We've certainly lost any sort of status as a neutral arbiter or facilitator in the peace process. I can't see what we've gained, though.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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gbasden wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 12:47 pm
Remus West wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 12:45 pm
Not everyone protesting is a terrorist. Although the numbers of them will certainly grow due to today's events. So I ask again. Given the cost why is it the right thing? If you can not come back to me with something better than "we traditionally have our embassy in the nation's capital" then you're losing. What have we gained through this move? What have we lost?
We've certainly lost any sort of status as a neutral arbiter or facilitator in the peace process. I can't see what we've gained, though.
Favor with evangelical zealots/idiots who couldn't care less about Israel, except inasmuch as it's a step along to road to their end times prophecy. The Jeffress crowd is over the moon today.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Rip »

Well one thing you are doing is following through on legislation from over 20 years ago that we were too cowardly to actually follow through on.

If you want people to take you seriously then you follow through on legislation you have enacted.

Instead of entering into moronic deals that the Congress never had a chance to weigh in on.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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geezer wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 2:17 pm
gbasden wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 12:47 pm
Remus West wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 12:45 pm
Not everyone protesting is a terrorist. Although the numbers of them will certainly grow due to today's events. So I ask again. Given the cost why is it the right thing? If you can not come back to me with something better than "we traditionally have our embassy in the nation's capital" then you're losing. What have we gained through this move? What have we lost?
We've certainly lost any sort of status as a neutral arbiter or facilitator in the peace process. I can't see what we've gained, though.
Favor with evangelical zealots/idiots who couldn't care less about Israel, except inasmuch as it's a step along to road to their end times prophecy. The Jeffress crowd is over the moon today.
Presumably this will peel some American Jews away from the D Party, too. That's what I thought was the motive, anyway.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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In a rare moment of agreement with President Trump, Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) on Monday praised the president for moving the U.S. Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

“In a long overdue move, we have moved our embassy to Jerusalem. Every nation should have the right to choose its capital,” Schumer said in a statement. “I sponsored legislation to do this two decades ago, and I applaud President Trump for doing it.”

The statement echoed a sentiment Trump expressed in a video message presented at the embassy opening, in which the president said the move had “been a long time coming.”
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3875 ... -jerusalem

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Remus West wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 12:45 pm
Not everyone protesting is a terrorist.
Sure, they're just trying to breach the border. But even if they were all completely peaceful is no reason to agree to their demands. Whether or not moving the embassy is the right thing, the opinion of a third party is irrelevant.

(Ironically, the embassy isn't the motivation for why these protests started when they did, a couple of months ago - they started protesting because they want to "return" to what is now Israel, hence why their stated aim is to breach the border).
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Kraken wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 2:42 pm

Presumably this will peel some American Jews away from the D Party, too. That's what I thought was the motive, anyway.
Doubtful that would be a major motive. Even if you had seen an unheard of massive shift of, say, 15%, that would still be a tiny, tiny amount, since Jews aren't a very big constituency.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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geezer wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 2:17 pm
gbasden wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 12:47 pm
Remus West wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 12:45 pm
Not everyone protesting is a terrorist. Although the numbers of them will certainly grow due to today's events. So I ask again. Given the cost why is it the right thing? If you can not come back to me with something better than "we traditionally have our embassy in the nation's capital" then you're losing. What have we gained through this move? What have we lost?
We've certainly lost any sort of status as a neutral arbiter or facilitator in the peace process. I can't see what we've gained, though.
Favor with evangelical zealots/idiots who couldn't care less about Israel, except inasmuch as it's a step along to road to their end times prophecy. The Jeffress crowd is over the moon today.
What I would say is that we basically know the rough countours of what a negotiated two-state framework would look like. There would be a Palestinian state encompassing 95%+ of the West Bank and Gaza (with some negotiated land swaps), probably including East Jerusalem as its capital, and essentially no right of return for Palestinians to Israel proper, and the rest of Israel would remain as a Jewish state. Working from that as an end point, we should do what we can to shape events towards that ultimate destination, and push back on each sides' maximalist ambitions that contravene that ultimate reality. I'm fine with moving the embassy to West Jerusalem because that's 100% consistent with that ultimate two-state framework. On top of that, anything that makes it crystal clear to Palestinians that they are never getting West Jerusalem as part of a Palestinian state - that's just not on the table and never will be, and the sooner they come to terms with that the better.

Now, what the Trump administration should be doing more of is leaning on Israel to impede West Bank settlement expansion as much as possible, because that is contrary to the ultimate two-state resolution, and only makes a two-state agreement harder to negotiate.

Ideally the embassy move would be accompanied by some type of move to make clear to the Palestinians that the U.S. supports a Palestinian state including East Jerusalem as its capital.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Rip wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 2:39 pm
If you want people to take you seriously then you follow through on legislation you have enacted.

Instead of entering into moronic deals that the Congress never had a chance to weigh in on.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by geezer »

El Guapo wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 3:08 pm
geezer wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 2:17 pm
gbasden wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 12:47 pm
Remus West wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 12:45 pm
Not everyone protesting is a terrorist. Although the numbers of them will certainly grow due to today's events. So I ask again. Given the cost why is it the right thing? If you can not come back to me with something better than "we traditionally have our embassy in the nation's capital" then you're losing. What have we gained through this move? What have we lost?
We've certainly lost any sort of status as a neutral arbiter or facilitator in the peace process. I can't see what we've gained, though.
Favor with evangelical zealots/idiots who couldn't care less about Israel, except inasmuch as it's a step along to road to their end times prophecy. The Jeffress crowd is over the moon today.
What I would say is that we basically know the rough countours of what a negotiated two-state framework would look like. There would be a Palestinian state encompassing 95%+ of the West Bank and Gaza (with some negotiated land swaps), probably including East Jerusalem as its capital, and essentially no right of return for Palestinians to Israel proper, and the rest of Israel would remain as a Jewish state. Working from that as an end point, we should do what we can to shape events towards that ultimate destination, and push back on each sides' maximalist ambitions that contravene that ultimate reality. I'm fine with moving the embassy to West Jerusalem because that's 100% consistent with that ultimate two-state framework. On top of that, anything that makes it crystal clear to Palestinians that they are never getting West Jerusalem as part of a Palestinian state - that's just not on the table and never will be, and the sooner they come to terms with that the better.

Now, what the Trump administration should be doing more of is leaning on Israel to impede West Bank settlement expansion as much as possible, because that is contrary to the ultimate two-state resolution, and only makes a two-state agreement harder to negotiate.

Ideally the embassy move would be accompanied by some type of move to make clear to the Palestinians that the U.S. supports a Palestinian state including East Jerusalem as its capital.
That sounds rational, though I'm not sure that clarity is something we've "gained" rather than made more difficult. In either case, I wish I thought the Trump administration had given the whole thing 1/10 of that amount of forethought :/

Question though - I'm not particularly well-versed on the specifics of the Jerusalem issue, but what makes West Jerusalem and a right of return non-negotiable? Is it a security issue, or a cultural/religious issue?
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