HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
I must have fallen asleep during the part where they showed how the hosts can now injure real humans. What changed?
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
I believe that happened at the end of Season 1 when Ford implemented his "new narrative" - and Delores shot him in the head.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 9:56 pm I must have fallen asleep during the part where they showed how the hosts can now injure real humans. What changed?
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
This is correct.Exodor wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 9:59 pmI believe that happened at the end of Season 1 when Ford implemented his "new narrative" - and Delores shot him in the head.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 9:56 pm I must have fallen asleep during the part where they showed how the hosts can now injure real humans. What changed?
Hodor.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
Thanks, I'm usually falling asleep while watching WW.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
I got a bit confused with the timeline in this week's episode. Am I correct that almost the entire episode is a flashback that takes place before the beginning scene where Bernard meets the owner woman who asks about Abernathy? That is, all the stuff in the fort, etc. takes place before Bernard wakes up on the beach?
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
I think so, but who knows, heh. Also we had Bernard telling Dolores about how she doesn't know about the "real world" when they were both in it in the previous episode. Was that the real Bernard then (that showed her the entrance to his lab/home after the party)?Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 10:22 am I got a bit confused with the timeline in this week's episode. Am I correct that almost the entire episode is a flashback that takes place before the beginning scene where Bernard meets the owner woman who asks about Abernathy? That is, all the stuff in the fort, etc. takes place before Bernard wakes up on the beach?
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
Yes. Almost the entire episode was a flashback. They're still filling in the details between the start of Ford's new narrative and the opening of the season with Bernard on the beach.Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 10:22 am I got a bit confused with the timeline in this week's episode. Am I correct that almost the entire episode is a flashback that takes place before the beginning scene where Bernard meets the owner woman who asks about Abernathy? That is, all the stuff in the fort, etc. takes place before Bernard wakes up on the beach?
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
Yes, I think that was the pre-Bernard Bernard.Toe wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 10:39 amAlso we had Bernard telling Dolores about how she doesn't know about the "real world" when they were both in it in the previous episode. Was that the real Bernard then (that showed her the entrance to his lab/home after the party)?Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 10:22 am I got a bit confused with the timeline in this week's episode. Am I correct that almost the entire episode is a flashback that takes place before the beginning scene where Bernard meets the owner woman who asks about Abernathy? That is, all the stuff in the fort, etc. takes place before Bernard wakes up on the beach?
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
I'm really enjoying this season, maybe because after Season 1 I kind of know "how" to watch Westworld. IE - timelines may shift around with no warning, hosts and people are indistinguishable, etc. As much as I liked Season 1, I spent a good deal of time just being confused. Now that I have some frame of reference, I'm finding myself getting into this season a little more easily.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
Well, still processing the last episode but just have to mention that you should stick around till the end of the credits...
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
The ironic thing is, I felt season 2 was more confusing than the first. There was way more shifting around in season 2 and way more time spent on misdirection. It's like they said, "People know what to expect now, so let's amp it up some and keep them guessing." And there was a lot of misdirection right until the end. This is not a show with a linear story.YellowKing wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 11:57 am I'm really enjoying this season, maybe because after Season 1 I kind of know "how" to watch Westworld. IE - timelines may shift around with no warning, hosts and people are indistinguishable, etc. As much as I liked Season 1, I spent a good deal of time just being confused. Now that I have some frame of reference, I'm finding myself getting into this season a little more easily.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
I thought the season 2 ending was well done. Probably one of the better 90 minutes of science fiction on TV in ages. It explained quite a few things, while creating a few new mysteries for season 3. I'll admit to getting a little frustrated with the story about the halfway mark this season, but then it picked up steam and we ended with this fantastic episode. Definitely in for season 3.
He won. Period.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
I agree. I see many people hating on the episode, but I thought it was great and wrapped up a bunch of pieces. The timelines were confusing, but it made a fairly generic storyline more interesting by making it a mystery.hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:50 am I thought the season 2 ending was well done. Probably one of the better 90 minutes of science fiction on TV in ages. It explained quite a few things, while creating a few new mysteries for season 3. I'll admit to getting a little frustrated with the story about the halfway mark this season, but then it picked up steam and we ended with this fantastic episode. Definitely in for season 3.
Also the post credits scene explained by Lisa Joy
Massive S2 Finale Spoiler in URL. Why they hell do they do that.
Spoiler:
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
Yeah, I thought it was one of the best season finales I'd ever seen.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
One of my favorite bits:
Spoiler:
He won. Period.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
Spoiler:
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
In my analogy, faithful = host. That’s why I noted the humans couldn’t see it.
He won. Period.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
Despite my enjoyment of the first season, I seem to have little motivation for catching the second season. Weird.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
Oh, I see. Must have missed that little detail I didn't make the connection.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
Overall I enjoyed this season, but every time "new" Dolores speaks, it's like fingers on a chalkboard. That whispery breathlessness is a bit overdone IMO. Sounds forced.
I also felt the writing or maybe acting for the Man In Black was off in the finale. Up to now, I felt his acting was superb, and so good I didn't "notice" it if you know what I mean. I get that he's in a reduced state in this episode, but his lines were so out of character, or delivered so woodenly, that they stood out to me (not in a good way).
Otherwise, fantastic series so far. I wouldn't put it up there with my favorites, but very, very good TV.
I also felt the writing or maybe acting for the Man In Black was off in the finale. Up to now, I felt his acting was superb, and so good I didn't "notice" it if you know what I mean. I get that he's in a reduced state in this episode, but his lines were so out of character, or delivered so woodenly, that they stood out to me (not in a good way).
Otherwise, fantastic series so far. I wouldn't put it up there with my favorites, but very, very good TV.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
If anything, the MIB has been my least favourite character. I like Ed Harris, but I've felt like his character in this has been one-dimensional and I haven't found him too interesting in this.
But yeah, Dolores. I much preferred her in season 1.
But yeah, Dolores. I much preferred her in season 1.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
Rented and intended to binge watch season 2 this weekend but my power went out. I got 8 of 10 episodes in.
Without being spolierie
So far the most sympathetic character is Mav. As she was an annoying distraction story in the entire first season, I would have never seen me be most interested in her story in the second season.
Delores, being the central and most interesting character "waking" in season 1, has spent the first 8 episodes with a singularity of unsympathetic purpose. I suppose I get why and her commitment to ideal concurrent with hypocrisy under enlightenment is driving the story but I find it's not the kind of story I like.
I like the expansion of topics and metaphors they are dealing with. Being able to juxtapose Mav's growth with Delores enlightenment is probably one of the biggest unexpected highlights.
I don't care for all the new concepts that should have been evident in first season that are driving the second season. It's easy for me to suspend disbelief and get lost in a well told story a la season 1. It's hard for me to suspend disbelief and be lost in the story when the rules of reality in the first season are different rules of reality in the second season.
Maybe the last two episodes will reveal to me I shouldnt' be so hypercritical. I'll find out tonight.
Without being spolierie
So far the most sympathetic character is Mav. As she was an annoying distraction story in the entire first season, I would have never seen me be most interested in her story in the second season.
Delores, being the central and most interesting character "waking" in season 1, has spent the first 8 episodes with a singularity of unsympathetic purpose. I suppose I get why and her commitment to ideal concurrent with hypocrisy under enlightenment is driving the story but I find it's not the kind of story I like.
I like the expansion of topics and metaphors they are dealing with. Being able to juxtapose Mav's growth with Delores enlightenment is probably one of the biggest unexpected highlights.
I don't care for all the new concepts that should have been evident in first season that are driving the second season. It's easy for me to suspend disbelief and get lost in a well told story a la season 1. It's hard for me to suspend disbelief and be lost in the story when the rules of reality in the first season are different rules of reality in the second season.
Spoiler:
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
The middle episodes of season 2 were easily the weakest imo. I can't remember why at this point, but I think it had to do with the nature of the storytelling. It was less about specifics and more about setting the tone, for like 3 or 4 episodes which is beyond my tolerance levels that sort of thing.
Trying to redeem story writer dude didn't work for me.
I like the show and they obviously spent enormous amount of time writing Delores' character, and I'm continually impressed with the casting choice for her, but sometimes when things aspire to greatness and fall a little short it's more disappointing than if they never got near greatness in the first place.
Also if I pick up on a metaphor you know they are really hitting you over the head with it. I'm not exactly known for awareness while watching anything.
Trying to redeem story writer dude didn't work for me.
I like the show and they obviously spent enormous amount of time writing Delores' character, and I'm continually impressed with the casting choice for her, but sometimes when things aspire to greatness and fall a little short it's more disappointing than if they never got near greatness in the first place.
Also if I pick up on a metaphor you know they are really hitting you over the head with it. I'm not exactly known for awareness while watching anything.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
GreenGoo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:48 pm The middle episodes of season 2 were easily the weakest imo. I can't remember why at this point, but I think it had to do with the nature of the storytelling. It was less about specifics and more about setting the tone, for like 3 or 4 episodes which is beyond my tolerance levels that sort of thing.
My problem with the story this time around was that it was so scattered and overly complex to perhaps get around the fact that it wasn't that great of a story to begin with. I felt the series had lost itself amid the complexity. I felt that it was better when it was simpler and more direct, and that was evident in the Akecheta episode which is probably my favourite Season 2 episode. It was simpler and to the point and it was powerful.
I think that the show has an interesting concept that is both a boon and a curse. Creatively, I think it presents many opportunities, but at the same time, I think that if characters namely synths are able to come back time and time again, it diminishes the impact a death can have, and I worry that the more it's used, the more it becomes a crutch. Now Maeve is easily one of my favourite character, and I find she's the most internally consistent character, but after what happened at the end of Season 2, I'm not sure I'd want her back.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
Man, I really wanted to like Season 2. Again I really like the metaphor and commentary they were playing with but the bad stuff was just so bad that I spent too much time being distracted, as opposed to the good stuff being so good I get lost in the art as much as the story.
As this just came out for us non HBO viewers, I don't want to get spoilery and by the time I would, I'll have forgotten what I saw and what I thought, so whichever. Assuming there is a Season 3, I won't be chomping at the bit to see it. I'll just remember how I felt season 2 was not so much.
As this just came out for us non HBO viewers, I don't want to get spoilery and by the time I would, I'll have forgotten what I saw and what I thought, so whichever. Assuming there is a Season 3, I won't be chomping at the bit to see it. I'll just remember how I felt season 2 was not so much.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
Yeah, I'm not entirely certain I'll be back for season 3 either. And I hate that the producers try to justify the weak writing while demeaning the viewers, as if to say we're not smart enough to follow their "brilliant" writing. I've gotten that tone from them via articles after the season ended. Whatever happened to being humble and accepting that they may have made mistakes?
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
this is the age of its not my fault its theirs remember.Rumpy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:21 am Yeah, I'm not entirely certain I'll be back for season 3 either. And I hate that the producers try to justify the weak writing while demeaning the viewers, as if to say we're not smart enough to follow their "brilliant" writing. I've gotten that tone from them via articles after the season ended. Whatever happened to being humble and accepting that they may have made mistakes?
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
I didn't read any of the self assessment but if that's what the writers think then, whatever. I can't speak for other viewers but my problem is that the artistry of the first season was lacking and the agreement for accepting the vision of the west world world was thrown out the window between seasons and that's just too much of a distraction for me to appreciate what is being put before me. I can suspend disbelief for a good story. While one of my favorite devices in all of the humanities is exploring the engagement between the author and the reader with some sort of active narrative (from breaking the 4th wall to the unreliable narrator to...) I can't handle the author establishing the ground rules and then throwing them out without something to latch on to.Rumpy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:21 am Yeah, I'm not entirely certain I'll be back for season 3 either. And I hate that the producers try to justify the weak writing while demeaning the viewers, as if to say we're not smart enough to follow their "brilliant" writing. I've gotten that tone from them via articles after the season ended. Whatever happened to being humble and accepting that they may have made mistakes?
while I loved many things like moving form MMORPG ideas to Social Media studies of customer as product ideas...
Spoiler:
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
Yep, apparently. It's apparently an increasing sentiment that I see a lot more. And this is despite the fact that Season 2 had lots of criticism compared to the first. Meanwhile, a show is nothing without its viewers. I think the producers got overly confident over the first season's success and over-extended themselves. I've never seen such a drop in quality and tone going from a 1st season to a 2nd season.Daehawk wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:12 amthis is the age of its not my fault its theirs remember.Rumpy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:21 am Yeah, I'm not entirely certain I'll be back for season 3 either. And I hate that the producers try to justify the weak writing while demeaning the viewers, as if to say we're not smart enough to follow their "brilliant" writing. I've gotten that tone from them via articles after the season ended. Whatever happened to being humble and accepting that they may have made mistakes?
Yep, that's certainly part of it. They played it too loosely. Combine the fact that they aren't even internally consistent with the confusing narrative and you have Season 2 in a nutshell. It's frustrating because season 1 was quite good and I had a much easier time following the story. It presented a pretty awesome scenario and I was looking forward to seeing what they'd do with it in Season 2. Then Season 2 came along and it's as if it didn't know what it wanted to be. It was such a letdown, a muddled mess.LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:33 am And the list of distractions goes on and on. I don't want to care about these things. I want to sit back and enjoy the show. I could have nitpicked season 1, but the way they were playing with the art and advancing the story and we came up with an agreement about the world about how perception is not reality and I sat back and enjoyed the show. Season 2 said, well if agree that perception isn't reality then fuck it, the agreement is off. And now I'm going off, when the reality is, Season 2 will ultimately just be forgettable and a reason not worry about the future of the franchise.
I guess you could say Season 1 had a theme of exploration. Guests exploring the frontier, exploring the idea of AI, etc. Even Season 1 Dolores had a wide-eyed optimism about her. Season 2 seems to switch to more of a spaghetti western genre, Dolores turns into a cold-blooded (well cold-oiled?) killer out for revenge and violence is ramped up.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
*shrug* I liked it.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
Even though I didn't care for her character, I assumed it was by design and was willing to give her ironic reduction to a single violent dimension as a statement on being woke, on clarity of purpose, on "fidelity", which I thought were great contemporary explorations within the data aggregating, customers are products framework. It gave a chance for Teddy's character to shed his one dimensional being.Dolores turns into a cold-blooded (well cold-oiled?) killer out for revenge and violence is ramped up.
But then
a muddled mess
Spoiler:
I don't blame you. I wanted to like it. Either by surface or by depth. I failed.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
I think I noticed Season One for $9 at Walmart. What's the consensus on Westworld? Is the lack of conversation regarding it all I need to know?
"Four more years!" "Pause." LMAO
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
I really liked S1. It's slow and you need to pay attention, but it's also something that will likely benefit from multiple viewings. I've just stared S2 so I can't comment. The general lack of conversation about any show (I take) as the relatively short shelf-life TV entertainment has anymore. With so many new shows being added to various platforms (even during slow summer / off-season times), I don't think it's possible to keep up anymore. We're absolutely in a golden-age of entertainment.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
The first season was great. Avoid spoilers if at all possible. The second season... was. I would definitely recommend season 1 and then maybe pretend it ended there. I'm still hopeful for season 3 to give me what season 2 failed to deliver.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
I wonder if I rewatch Season 2 if I'll understand it more. Because I certainly struggled at time to time to keep all the threads together, and that's generally not an issue for me! It's like they tried to be extra convoluted because they could.coopasonic wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:16 amThe first season was great. Avoid spoilers if at all possible. The second season... was. I would definitely recommend season 1 and then maybe pretend it ended there. I'm still hopeful for season 3 to give me what season 2 failed to deliver.
I will say that the Season 3 trailer greatly intrigues me, and I'll gladly welcome the addition of Aaron Paul and Vincent Cassel to the cast.
Hodor.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
I thought Season 1 was some of the best TV series stuff out there. Season 2 left me not caring about a Season 3 in the works.
I could watch Season 1 again and I've seen it twice already. I wouldn't sit through Season 2 a second time. For $9, I might go out and buy it if I were a person who ever bothered to shop or order from WalMart.
My problem with Season 2 might be my own. With 1 being so good, my expectations may have had me picking apart too much, leaving suspension of disbelief and love of narration in the back seat.
I could watch Season 1 again and I've seen it twice already. I wouldn't sit through Season 2 a second time. For $9, I might go out and buy it if I were a person who ever bothered to shop or order from WalMart.
My problem with Season 2 might be my own. With 1 being so good, my expectations may have had me picking apart too much, leaving suspension of disbelief and love of narration in the back seat.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
I can do that, it's what I did for the Highlander movies.coopasonic wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:16 amI would definitely recommend season 1 and then maybe pretend it ended there.
"Four more years!" "Pause." LMAO
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
Oh, they made other Highlander films after the first one?
He won. Period.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
Yep, this. A bit like the differences between True Detective Seasons 1 & 2. The showrunners are going to have to show me they've learned their lesson from season 2 in order for me to have any interest in season 3.LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:19 am I thought Season 1 was some of the best TV series stuff out there. Season 2 left me not caring about a Season 3 in the works.
Without giving anything away, Season 2 feels like the showrunners misjudged very poorly what was popular with the 1st season and amped that up to 11. Season 2 was needlessly confusing, a maze of timelines with much less focus on actual storytelling. The one episode they had telling an actual story without resorting to a timeline mess, it was stronger for it. As it is though, season 2 doesn't have great payoff for what they put viewers through.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan
That was not a Highlander sequel. It was “Lee’s Folly” after our friend who insisted it would be the greatest movie made. “I was wrong,” he said afterwards.hepcat wrote:Oh, they made other Highlander films after the first one?
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon