Oxygen Not Included!
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- GreenGoo
- Posts: 42349
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
- Location: Ottawa, ON
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
Decided to dig out the chlorine geyser and hopefully use the gas produced to kill millions of germs.
- LordMortis
- Posts: 70231
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Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
I just started playing again and decided to be very picky with my dupes. Limiting myself in dups had made the game much easier. Especially when I make learning their primary trait and toss pretty much every truly negative disad. Also I think the game has gotten easier since I played last.
- Lorini
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- Location: Santa Clarita, California
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
The current implementation of Morale makes stress much easier (I suspect it's going to be balanced before 1.0 though). The additions that have happened since you stopped playing all have to do with getting into space, which you won't be able to do til after 100 cycles or so.LordMortis wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:18 amI just started playing again and decided to be very picky with my dupes. Limiting myself in dups had made the game much easier. Especially when I make learning their primary trait and toss pretty much every truly negative disad. Also I think the game has gotten easier since I played last.
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- GreenGoo
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Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
Not all my dupes have great skills and interests, but none of them have any of the seriously detrimental traits. I don't think I even have one that takes too long in the bathroom, let alone real problems.
- LordMortis
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- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
I found that by being very picky with my dups I am forced to make less decisions with plotting my needs for food and oxygen early, which requires less dups to upkeep, etc... In this iteration, I went 37 cycles and fed myself with muckroot for my three, then four, then five total dups who had enough oxygen supplied by one oxidizer in two central areas (research and bed). My expansion was only slightly slower than where I'd be if I had 10 dups running around constantly tending farms, and algea farms, and cooking and my resource waste minimal, specifically with toxic water and poorer air quality getting to the tidying chores, even when set at priority nine.
And after this weekend and looking at sepiches setup and thinking about "shoulda's" I have resetitus taking hold. I now have a much better plan for digging a toxic water pit, that can later become toxic water recycling center with ease as well as the desire to build early game resiviors to drain all my water to a central lower pump set, allowing for easier CO2 based gardening.
... And then learning there are different shields for heat for Lorini has me thinking I bee-line straight for heat shielded tile and build early borders surrounding my staring biome...
I also game to the conclusion (after forgetting it) that gardening for small amounts of dups can be premature if you preserve natural habitats until you need to run to them over, so I want to try and see if I can take a more lothlorien approach to my design.
And after this weekend and looking at sepiches setup and thinking about "shoulda's" I have resetitus taking hold. I now have a much better plan for digging a toxic water pit, that can later become toxic water recycling center with ease as well as the desire to build early game resiviors to drain all my water to a central lower pump set, allowing for easier CO2 based gardening.
... And then learning there are different shields for heat for Lorini has me thinking I bee-line straight for heat shielded tile and build early borders surrounding my staring biome...
I also game to the conclusion (after forgetting it) that gardening for small amounts of dups can be premature if you preserve natural habitats until you need to run to them over, so I want to try and see if I can take a more lothlorien approach to my design.
- GreenGoo
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Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
The main thing slowing me down is too many construction jobs at the same time, and travel time. I can turn off some jobs by removing key dig squares so the job is unreachable until I want it done, but travel time requires some design considerations early on (not too difficult) and then efficient design of newly discovered territory (more difficult).
I have 10 dupes because I can afford to have them, I have the infrastructure for them and everyone is happy without me doing anything. Early on adding a dupe when you can first get one is a bit dangerous as you've just expanded your resource requirements by 33%, at a time when you should have more resources than you need, but are *producing* none. So you can live like that for a bit but until you get a pile of algae (and power!) and mealwood, you're playing with oxygen/food fire.
I'm at the point now where excavating the entire swamp biome might be the only way for me to get the slimelung under control. Strip mining isn't in my dna, so I don't like that option. Still, I've done some serious excavation anyway.
I also expanded a polluted water puddle, then dug out the bottom of a polluted water pond 20+ tiles above it and watched the water pour down into the hole I expanded. It also had a pacu in it, which survived just fine, although he did have to flop a bit to follow the water down. That was funny/fun.
There are heat transfer plates, and there are insulated tiles. As Lorini pointed out, different materials have different heat properties.
I have 10 dupes because I can afford to have them, I have the infrastructure for them and everyone is happy without me doing anything. Early on adding a dupe when you can first get one is a bit dangerous as you've just expanded your resource requirements by 33%, at a time when you should have more resources than you need, but are *producing* none. So you can live like that for a bit but until you get a pile of algae (and power!) and mealwood, you're playing with oxygen/food fire.
I'm at the point now where excavating the entire swamp biome might be the only way for me to get the slimelung under control. Strip mining isn't in my dna, so I don't like that option. Still, I've done some serious excavation anyway.
I also expanded a polluted water puddle, then dug out the bottom of a polluted water pond 20+ tiles above it and watched the water pour down into the hole I expanded. It also had a pacu in it, which survived just fine, although he did have to flop a bit to follow the water down. That was funny/fun.
There are heat transfer plates, and there are insulated tiles. As Lorini pointed out, different materials have different heat properties.
- GreenGoo
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Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
In my current game slimelung is so prevalent and rampant in the swamp biome that I am literally strip mining it as a way to counter all the slimelung generation. I don't enjoy doing that and I'm already starting to eye a new start, although I still don't have an answer to slimelung so unless I find someone dealing with it at the same point in the game that I'm at, I'm not sure what I'll do next.
On the plus side, slimelung is almost completely absent from the inside of my base. There is a small pool of waste water that received the germs somehow, so they are there to stay as far as I can tell, and many of my dupes are host carriers, but it's not floating around in my air space, or on my surfaces. So that's a step up from the last game.
On the plus side, slimelung is almost completely absent from the inside of my base. There is a small pool of waste water that received the germs somehow, so they are there to stay as far as I can tell, and many of my dupes are host carriers, but it's not floating around in my air space, or on my surfaces. So that's a step up from the last game.
- Paingod
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Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
Someone in this thread said something about using Chlorine gas to kill germs. Is that really a thing?
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- GreenGoo
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Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
Yes, and I'm sorta doing that now, but on a small scale around my chlorine geyser surrounded by containers of slime. It's not ideal for this situation though, as the space is too big, there is too much polluted oxygen (a prime breeding ground for the germ) and there is too much slime (producing fresh slimelung even if the entire area is completely disinfected). You can't just pump in chlorine because the polluted oxygen takes up space, so you'd end up with compressed PO2 (polluted O2) and compressed Chlorine (CL2?). To fix this you'd need to pump out the PO2 until the area approached vacuum, then pump in CL2. The problem with that is that the PO2 would take significant slimelung germs wherever it went.
You can actually kill off slimelung by cleaning the air (it doesn't do well in clean O2), and removing all new sources of germs and PO2 (meaning remove slime and pools of dirty water). This can pretty easily be done on a small scale, but at this point we're looking at doing it on an industrial scale. It's practically an entire biome the size of your base. One of the cool things about ONI is doing things on an industrial scale, but I'm just not sure it's worth the time and effort. While working on this major project many cycles would go by with little development of my base in other areas.
It might be worth it just for the learning experience. However, I'm not enthused about the idea. Although it's starting to tickle my "this might be interesting" gaming funny bone.
- GreenGoo
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Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
So I've undertaken a major transition of gas. I'm going to pump all the polluted oxygen out of my cavern into an insulated chamber in my main base, filled with deodorizers. That should clean the gas and kill off most of the germs. I've included a gas filter to keep any chlorine in the cavern.
I'm then pumping the now mostly vacuous chamber with chlorine from the chlorine geyser in order to kill as many germs as possible in the swamp biome.
After that? I have no idea. Start over probably. I'm just experimenting with gas pumps and pipes like I did with plumbing last game. It'll be a learning experience that I hopefully can use next game to better effect.
It feels like a big job, and I don't have any refined metals or plastics, so I'm limited in tech. I can't build high pressure vents, and I'm not sure I can fit all the PO2 into the large chamber I built for it without compression. We'll see.
On the plus side, deodorizers are cheap, and I have over a hundred tons of sand, so there is no reason not to build a million of them. I'm still stuck with coal and leg power, mostly because I haven't been willing to try any of the other generators yet. I don't have access to fossil fuels sources yet. Or hydrogen outside of splitting up my water, something I don't want to do yet. No refined metals means no automation, so I'm wasting power all the time.
Now that I have some experience with slimelung (although I'm a long way from having mastered it) I'm starting to think about expanding into the hotter biomes to see what's there. I don't have a plan for the extra heat though, and everything I read weezewort heavy and I don't have those yet.
I feel like I wasted a lot of time with half-assed projects that never really had any payoff. This large cavern in the swamp biome for instance. I've spent 10's of cycles in there, just moving stuff around, building ladders, excavating, but I have nothing to show for it. At least nothing productive. The original idea was a mushroom farm, but that never materialized, and now I'm about to flood it with chlorine. Perhaps I'll empty the cave again afterward and fill it with CO2 (although I don't have a large source of it, outside of dupe breath and my coal furnace) and then start farming mushrooms. The cave is WAY too big for just that though, so I guess I'll just build a set of row house apartments. Or something. I should probably start looking at some of the more complex systems that people have built, and build some of them.
Kinda aimless at the moment, and have been for quite awhile, which has lead me to not playing as much. Mostly I'm just stuck at the next learning curve, rather than a lack of interest.
I'm then pumping the now mostly vacuous chamber with chlorine from the chlorine geyser in order to kill as many germs as possible in the swamp biome.
After that? I have no idea. Start over probably. I'm just experimenting with gas pumps and pipes like I did with plumbing last game. It'll be a learning experience that I hopefully can use next game to better effect.
It feels like a big job, and I don't have any refined metals or plastics, so I'm limited in tech. I can't build high pressure vents, and I'm not sure I can fit all the PO2 into the large chamber I built for it without compression. We'll see.
On the plus side, deodorizers are cheap, and I have over a hundred tons of sand, so there is no reason not to build a million of them. I'm still stuck with coal and leg power, mostly because I haven't been willing to try any of the other generators yet. I don't have access to fossil fuels sources yet. Or hydrogen outside of splitting up my water, something I don't want to do yet. No refined metals means no automation, so I'm wasting power all the time.
Now that I have some experience with slimelung (although I'm a long way from having mastered it) I'm starting to think about expanding into the hotter biomes to see what's there. I don't have a plan for the extra heat though, and everything I read weezewort heavy and I don't have those yet.
I feel like I wasted a lot of time with half-assed projects that never really had any payoff. This large cavern in the swamp biome for instance. I've spent 10's of cycles in there, just moving stuff around, building ladders, excavating, but I have nothing to show for it. At least nothing productive. The original idea was a mushroom farm, but that never materialized, and now I'm about to flood it with chlorine. Perhaps I'll empty the cave again afterward and fill it with CO2 (although I don't have a large source of it, outside of dupe breath and my coal furnace) and then start farming mushrooms. The cave is WAY too big for just that though, so I guess I'll just build a set of row house apartments. Or something. I should probably start looking at some of the more complex systems that people have built, and build some of them.
Kinda aimless at the moment, and have been for quite awhile, which has lead me to not playing as much. Mostly I'm just stuck at the next learning curve, rather than a lack of interest.
- LordMortis
- Posts: 70231
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
I found that learning the basics for manipulating gases are much easier than that of water and I'm glad for it. I would have rage quit if trying to get chlorine displacement out of my farms turned out to be as fruitless as my only attempt at cleaning water has been. Setting up the gases give me hope that I can come back to liquid pumps.
I also reset after taking my lessons in gas separation. I keep doing that, probably because I'm still putting together a plan for a good way to break the barrier out of my starting biome and I think it's going to involve better planing for my dup specialization.
Also my last start seems to have been all extreme heat or slime surrounding me, and I don't think I'm prepared in the mechanics of the game to handle either. I was just making myself proud of my gas manipulation, considered myself accomplished but poorly designed enough (I had never used firemans pole, so I never accounted for them and my real goal was to master ranching and my base was constructed with too little space to expand in to ranching)
My new start has hot but not scorching expanding areas and both water and my natural preserves areas are heavily concentrated. This will allow more starting room, to do more proof of concept. So now to learn more...
Every layout I see tends to make "levels" four squares high. Monkey see monkey do, but I'm wondering if I should ignore the collective wisdom that I am following without question or understanding. Before seeing other layouts I made some floors only two tall and some only three. This allowed me to do a lot more in my starting biome.
I also reset after taking my lessons in gas separation. I keep doing that, probably because I'm still putting together a plan for a good way to break the barrier out of my starting biome and I think it's going to involve better planing for my dup specialization.
Also my last start seems to have been all extreme heat or slime surrounding me, and I don't think I'm prepared in the mechanics of the game to handle either. I was just making myself proud of my gas manipulation, considered myself accomplished but poorly designed enough (I had never used firemans pole, so I never accounted for them and my real goal was to master ranching and my base was constructed with too little space to expand in to ranching)
My new start has hot but not scorching expanding areas and both water and my natural preserves areas are heavily concentrated. This will allow more starting room, to do more proof of concept. So now to learn more...
Every layout I see tends to make "levels" four squares high. Monkey see monkey do, but I'm wondering if I should ignore the collective wisdom that I am following without question or understanding. Before seeing other layouts I made some floors only two tall and some only three. This allowed me to do a lot more in my starting biome.
- GreenGoo
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Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
I'm pretty sure you're guaranteed to be surrounded by slime and heat when you start. The other types of biomes seem to be on the other side of swamps/caustic/heat/whatever biomes, that typically frame the starting biome.
- Sepiche
- Posts: 8112
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- Location: Olathe, KS
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
The main reason I do 4 high is that generally gives enough room for objects in a room plus a painting above to raise the decor, and 4 is a good general height as almost everything will fit in that space. If I planned things out a little better in advance though I'd probably do some 2 and 3 height levels for some of the rooms that will be largely unoccupied and don't need the extra space.LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:30 pm Every layout I see tends to make "levels" four squares high. Monkey see monkey do, but I'm wondering if I should ignore the collective wisdom that I am following without question or understanding. Before seeing other layouts I made some floors only two tall and some only three. This allowed me to do a lot more in my starting biome.
Yup, right now you are always bordered by caustic or slime biomes, there's an oil biome somewhere beneath you with a lava biome under that, space way above, and then the other biomes will be randomly scattered outside the initial layer of biomes around you.
Biomes
- GreenGoo
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Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
Most of the predefined "rooms" that provide bonuses have space requirements that are divisible by 4. While it might make sense to make a mess hall 2 high to maximize mess table usage for the room, as Sepiche mentions you'd be giving up valuable decor space. Also, many "buildings" are taller than 2 tiles.
Another reason to make rooms "spacey" is ventilation. Especially at the start when all you have is gas pressure differentials and gravity moving your gases around for you. If you make an oxidizer in a narrow vertical shaft, you'll get flow up and down but not readily left and right. I often have a shaft 3 squares wide and then lips/platforms of 1 to 3 tiles wide before a door leading into a room. I just like the aesthetic better than having doors open directly onto the shaft. If I make the platforms out of normal tile, I have air flow problems up and down because the shaft is only 3 wide. If I make the platforms out of airflow tiles, the gas movement is much better because as far as the gas is concerned, the shaft is now 4+ tiles wide. Gas tends to get trapped in tight spaces.
So,
1) Decor
2) air flow
Also, 4 high means you need a single ladder tile to reach the ceiling. 5 high means you need 2.
Another reason to make rooms "spacey" is ventilation. Especially at the start when all you have is gas pressure differentials and gravity moving your gases around for you. If you make an oxidizer in a narrow vertical shaft, you'll get flow up and down but not readily left and right. I often have a shaft 3 squares wide and then lips/platforms of 1 to 3 tiles wide before a door leading into a room. I just like the aesthetic better than having doors open directly onto the shaft. If I make the platforms out of normal tile, I have air flow problems up and down because the shaft is only 3 wide. If I make the platforms out of airflow tiles, the gas movement is much better because as far as the gas is concerned, the shaft is now 4+ tiles wide. Gas tends to get trapped in tight spaces.
So,
1) Decor
2) air flow
Also, 4 high means you need a single ladder tile to reach the ceiling. 5 high means you need 2.
- Sepiche
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Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
Yeah, one thing I forgot early on in the base I posted was making my main up/down shafts 3 wide instead of 1. It allows for better airflow, and later on it allows for easily adding a fireman's pole which can greatly speed up your duplicants getting around.
- LordMortis
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Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
Based on Biome names, the Swamp Biome is sometimes as hot as the caustic biome but not always. In my current game, I have two yellow to light orange exit points that are swamp and have relatively little slime. In most games my exit points all end up pretty dark orange or the Swamp biomes is filled with insurmontable walls of slime. So much so I assumed they were different than the ones I'm seeing now. I'm used yellow being all slime all the time, where as this version of Swamp is all polluted gas and water all the time.
I'm more concerned about my area efficiency the air flow. I had been limiting my air flow to just the ladders and doing just fine in my early game but now I'm going to expand to two so I can put fire poles in as they totally change the amount of work a dup can get done between oxygen gasps.
I'm glad I took a break and am playing with fresh eyes. I'll likely do this again... Probably when I get to the point where I have to manage fluid again or when I really have to start trying to understand management of heat beyond granite insulation at the borders of my temperate biome, which I assume marks the transition from early to "mid game"
I'm more concerned about my area efficiency the air flow. I had been limiting my air flow to just the ladders and doing just fine in my early game but now I'm going to expand to two so I can put fire poles in as they totally change the amount of work a dup can get done between oxygen gasps.
I'm glad I took a break and am playing with fresh eyes. I'll likely do this again... Probably when I get to the point where I have to manage fluid again or when I really have to start trying to understand management of heat beyond granite insulation at the borders of my temperate biome, which I assume marks the transition from early to "mid game"
- Unagi
- Posts: 26564
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- Location: Chicago
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
Oh no.... my frozen biome isn't gonna stay frozen ? That puts a damper on my current plan. Drat.
- Sepiche
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Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
I think that's one of the things about ONI that can be frustrating, but is ultimately the source of a lot of the fun: that almost every action has downsides you'll have to reckon with eventually...
Oh, my duplicants are getting tired trying to generate enough power, I'll build a coal furnace!
Oh, my coal furnace is raising the temperature of my base, I'll use weezleworts to cool it!
Oh, those weezleworts were keeping the cold biome frozen, and now it's melting into my base!
I noticed the next update is available in the beta branch if anyone wants a preview of it. It's out officially in a few more days, but the beta seems fine so far. Nothing too major for the early/mid game, but there are a few graphic tweaks, and a lot more end game content.
- GreenGoo
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Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
Ok, small problem with my "plan". After I am done, I'm going to have so much chlorine gas that I will need another asteroid to store it all.
I hear morbs will eat it, and void holes will get rid of it. Any other ideas?
On the plus side, heavy concentration of chlorine is absolutely vaporizing slimelung. Pumping out the dirty oxygen and pumping in the chlorine is a lengthy process, but the little bit that I've seen seems to be working as hoped.
I hear morbs will eat it, and void holes will get rid of it. Any other ideas?
On the plus side, heavy concentration of chlorine is absolutely vaporizing slimelung. Pumping out the dirty oxygen and pumping in the chlorine is a lengthy process, but the little bit that I've seen seems to be working as hoped.
- GreenGoo
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Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
I assume PO2 is the same weight as O2? I want to start "leaking" clean O2 out of my PO2 cleaning chamber, but I don't want to let any PO2 out, since that is a breeding ground for slimelung.
While I don't think the effort was worth it, pumping PO2 to the cleaning chamber, then replacing the PO2 with chlorine is working out quite well. Once PO2 becomes O2, slimelung starts dying off, and the chlorine is killing any slimelung that was left behind, especially surface slimelung. I'd say that slimelung is a non-entity.
And just to note, the slime and polluted water produced vast quantities of PO2. deodorizers are cheap, and that turns PO2 to O2 at a 1 for 1 rate (pretty sure) for the cost of some sandstone and a little sand. That's an amazing deal.
Both chambers (chlorine and PO2 cleaning) are over pressurized right now, so the pumps can only work sporadically, as I don't have high pressure vents yet. Assuming that's what they do...
While I don't think the effort was worth it, pumping PO2 to the cleaning chamber, then replacing the PO2 with chlorine is working out quite well. Once PO2 becomes O2, slimelung starts dying off, and the chlorine is killing any slimelung that was left behind, especially surface slimelung. I'd say that slimelung is a non-entity.
And just to note, the slime and polluted water produced vast quantities of PO2. deodorizers are cheap, and that turns PO2 to O2 at a 1 for 1 rate (pretty sure) for the cost of some sandstone and a little sand. That's an amazing deal.
Both chambers (chlorine and PO2 cleaning) are over pressurized right now, so the pumps can only work sporadically, as I don't have high pressure vents yet. Assuming that's what they do...
- Sepiche
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Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
I was pretty out of practice starting that last base, so I loaded up the beta branch and started fresh, and my base is much more functional this time around.
Heat, water, food, and air are all stable at around 75 cycles, and I'm getting close to getting some crude pumped up to my base to let me get plastic, and start getting some oil power plants running.
![Enlarge Image](https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/938330377461189733/90C6625DC62CE2C512C3F4913BD3D6A7E8DB5F15/)
I have:
- Two entry points with enviro suits to allow for longer work outside the base
- Both entrances have some sort of hand cleaning when you come back in
- I looted some weezeworts from nearby cold biomes, but I made sure to leave enough on the ones above me that they don't completely melt and flood me
- Most of my power is still coal, but I have a hydrogen plant that holds it's own
- At the very bottom you can just see the oil processing facilities I have setup about ready to take the crude from below
- At the left hand airlock you can see I built a firepole to allow quicker access to the oil biome for my duplicants
- You can't see it, but above and to the right of my base I found a geyser that sprays molten iron that cools to become refined iron
- Pepper, mushroom, and reed crops are in the basement, bristle berries are up among my base
- I have a cool steam geyser up north I'm hoping to make into a steam power plant eventually
- This game I made sure to leave crops I found growing in the wild and harvest those, and it's been much easier to feed everyone with that to supplement my farming
- Only real mistake I made is I accidentally took a flatulent duplicant among my first 3, so around the mid game I had a buildup of natural gas in the base I had to deal with, but I used a natural gas power plant to burn it off, and I plan to gather natural gas from my oil extraction efforts to power it fully shortly
Heat, water, food, and air are all stable at around 75 cycles, and I'm getting close to getting some crude pumped up to my base to let me get plastic, and start getting some oil power plants running.
I have:
- Two entry points with enviro suits to allow for longer work outside the base
- Both entrances have some sort of hand cleaning when you come back in
- I looted some weezeworts from nearby cold biomes, but I made sure to leave enough on the ones above me that they don't completely melt and flood me
- Most of my power is still coal, but I have a hydrogen plant that holds it's own
- At the very bottom you can just see the oil processing facilities I have setup about ready to take the crude from below
- At the left hand airlock you can see I built a firepole to allow quicker access to the oil biome for my duplicants
- You can't see it, but above and to the right of my base I found a geyser that sprays molten iron that cools to become refined iron
- Pepper, mushroom, and reed crops are in the basement, bristle berries are up among my base
- I have a cool steam geyser up north I'm hoping to make into a steam power plant eventually
- This game I made sure to leave crops I found growing in the wild and harvest those, and it's been much easier to feed everyone with that to supplement my farming
- Only real mistake I made is I accidentally took a flatulent duplicant among my first 3, so around the mid game I had a buildup of natural gas in the base I had to deal with, but I used a natural gas power plant to burn it off, and I plan to gather natural gas from my oil extraction efforts to power it fully shortly
- GreenGoo
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- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
- Location: Ottawa, ON
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
Gonna throw up some screenshots not because I'm proud of it (I'm not) but just to show you what I've been doing. I had turned off my algae oxidizers for a few cycles, that's why my O2 is darker blue.
I've stagnated here and am unsure what to do next. I have a ton of stuff researched by I'm not using it for various reasons. No refined metal, for one. No fossil fuel source for plastics, for another. Afraid to dig out into the wild and see what's out there, for a 3rd.
![Enlarge Image](https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/963100177870246141/FE9D394D79D938E7C59FC7B5A482B927E2726969/)
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I've stagnated here and am unsure what to do next. I have a ton of stuff researched by I'm not using it for various reasons. No refined metal, for one. No fossil fuel source for plastics, for another. Afraid to dig out into the wild and see what's out there, for a 3rd.
- Lorini
- Posts: 8282
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
- Location: Santa Clarita, California
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
Why don't you have refined metals? Get a rock granulator and make some, that's a big gate.
Sepiche, if you sweep you'll never have to worry about stress again. You probably can even get rid of those ugly pictures.
Sepiche, if you sweep you'll never have to worry about stress again. You probably can even get rid of those ugly pictures.
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- GreenGoo
- Posts: 42349
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
- Location: Ottawa, ON
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
I'm not sure. I had them last game, but I think it's the 2:1 ratio that was putting me off, plus rock hatches doing it at 4:3 and I really didn't have an idea how far off rock hatches were. At one point I was getting seriously low on copper and hadn't ventured out of the starting biome so I didn't have all the gold amalgam I do now, but never realized I had so much metal ore. I have more gold amalgam than copper right now.
- Lorini
- Posts: 8282
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
- Location: Santa Clarita, California
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
The smelter is tough to run, so most people start with the Rock Granulator. I never have enough space for all the different critters so I prioritize the hatches that give coal. You should make sure you don't use your copper for anything except exosuits as soon as possible. You never know how many exosuits you'll want and if you run out of copper that'll be it.GreenGoo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:50 pm I'm not sure. I had them last game, but I think it's the 2:1 ratio that was putting me off, plus rock hatches doing it at 4:3 and I really didn't have an idea how far off rock hatches were. At one point I was getting seriously low on copper and hadn't ventured out of the starting biome so I didn't have all the gold amalgam I do now, but never realized I had so much metal ore. I have more gold amalgam than copper right now.
The biggest reason to get to the metal is to save on power, the smart batteries are much much better and more efficient than regular batteries.
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- LordMortis
- Posts: 70231
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
After gaining a clearer idea on how to work with slimelung, I reset again. This time searching for a start with mild heat both above and below me, knowing that in my current settings I can monitor and handle slimelung, while reaping the benefits deodorizers making breathable oxygen without energy, heat, or water waste.
I also am finally breaking down and dedicating dups to career paths instead of working them all up in every class one by one. We'll see how that works out. I'm building much slower but my research is flying by and directed goals seem easier to accomplish.
I fear lorinis message about copper. I suppose one day I'll get to the point where that warning is meaningful. But so far the longest I've made it before lessons learned ask me to go again is around cycle 100 and copper conservation has'l player a role yet. Note: I still haven't even gotten to functional plumbing or plastics or ranching. I'm still getting my handle on basic infrastructure best practices and have just really started to learn to use biome features outside of my starting biome (minus geysers and such. I haven't tapped a geyser yet either)
Also with regard to dedicating dups, I'm becoming a fan of strip mining, even with regard to initial setup. I'm finding with this last game I build beds and bathroom and then climb to the top and start digging down. Strip mine about to one space below where you are going to put your floors and then set up the room with nothing to sweep. Go down a level repeat. This required me to dig out the first level with no rooms for gases to be able seep up in to.
It's been pretty efficient so far and its forcing me to better learn to plan for draining water basins, which is a better long term plan for my build anyway. The one weird thing I've been doing is leaving meal lice and brisle blossoms where they are naturally and building my fort around them. It may be slow food but it's free food, with the exception for providing light (and therefore heat) to bristle blossoms. I came to start doing this because I started doing it for flora outside of my staring biome that I could not easily cultivate without a more advance environmental planning and commitment from my Doozers.
/wonders if Fraggles will eventually come by and start eating my asteroid....
I also am finally breaking down and dedicating dups to career paths instead of working them all up in every class one by one. We'll see how that works out. I'm building much slower but my research is flying by and directed goals seem easier to accomplish.
I fear lorinis message about copper. I suppose one day I'll get to the point where that warning is meaningful. But so far the longest I've made it before lessons learned ask me to go again is around cycle 100 and copper conservation has'l player a role yet. Note: I still haven't even gotten to functional plumbing or plastics or ranching. I'm still getting my handle on basic infrastructure best practices and have just really started to learn to use biome features outside of my starting biome (minus geysers and such. I haven't tapped a geyser yet either)
Also with regard to dedicating dups, I'm becoming a fan of strip mining, even with regard to initial setup. I'm finding with this last game I build beds and bathroom and then climb to the top and start digging down. Strip mine about to one space below where you are going to put your floors and then set up the room with nothing to sweep. Go down a level repeat. This required me to dig out the first level with no rooms for gases to be able seep up in to.
It's been pretty efficient so far and its forcing me to better learn to plan for draining water basins, which is a better long term plan for my build anyway. The one weird thing I've been doing is leaving meal lice and brisle blossoms where they are naturally and building my fort around them. It may be slow food but it's free food, with the exception for providing light (and therefore heat) to bristle blossoms. I came to start doing this because I started doing it for flora outside of my staring biome that I could not easily cultivate without a more advance environmental planning and commitment from my Doozers.
/wonders if Fraggles will eventually come by and start eating my asteroid....
- LordMortis
- Posts: 70231
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
Was doing an excellent job keeping the heat out of what is easily my largest settlement. I uncover in iron volcano, spewing refined iron. So I start pulling it in my base. Probably 20 cycles later, I do a general survey of heat and the iron has the surrounding area to 100c. Now I have a huge heat pocket seaping in from the volcano and a storage container emitting heat that can't escape. /forehead slap.
- Lorini
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- Location: Santa Clarita, California
- LordMortis
- Posts: 70231
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
I was in the process of slowly building heat deflection around the volcano, which already far away and slowly turning the outskirts of my base yellow. I just hadn't realized that even after the volcano cooled the iron it produced would hold so much heat and release it way it did, inside my heavily insulated fortress of solitude, which went from extremely well heat shielded to extremely well heat retaining.
I could have played around with it and moved all the iron back out to cool and moved a weeze wort to my storage site but I was pretty unhappy with my surrounding area, so I figured that was my new lesson learned and restarted. That's what I do.
I'm playing seed 15 right now and it's looking very promising, though it's a pretty rough start to reconfigure the temperate biome out of the gate while trying to preserve the natural flora for an more easily sustained harvest. There is a ton of flora, which should be excellent for a non farming colony for a good long time but a ton flora is a PITA to work around.
I also said 'screw it' and loaded the debug mode, so I could get a quick survey of the geysers. The last round I played had basically had none. Wiki states that is because geysers don't get placed sometimes due to conflicting features. So... I start the game in debug mode and count geysers and then kill the game before digesting the actual map. If I am getting screwed I don't want to put in 20 hours before getting annoyed.
spoiler? based on Wiki information.
I could have played around with it and moved all the iron back out to cool and moved a weeze wort to my storage site but I was pretty unhappy with my surrounding area, so I figured that was my new lesson learned and restarted. That's what I do.
I'm playing seed 15 right now and it's looking very promising, though it's a pretty rough start to reconfigure the temperate biome out of the gate while trying to preserve the natural flora for an more easily sustained harvest. There is a ton of flora, which should be excellent for a non farming colony for a good long time but a ton flora is a PITA to work around.
I also said 'screw it' and loaded the debug mode, so I could get a quick survey of the geysers. The last round I played had basically had none. Wiki states that is because geysers don't get placed sometimes due to conflicting features. So... I start the game in debug mode and count geysers and then kill the game before digesting the actual map. If I am getting screwed I don't want to put in 20 hours before getting annoyed.
spoiler? based on Wiki information.
Spoiler:
- Formix
- Posts: 640
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:48 am
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
I haven't had much chance to use it, but thanks for the tip Lorini! It's obvious now that you pointed it out.
- Lorini
- Posts: 8282
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
- Location: Santa Clarita, California
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
Sandbox mode is so much easier than debug and still reveals the map.
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- LordMortis
- Posts: 70231
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
That wasn't the case for me or if it was I didn't know where the magic button was.
I thought I was doing pretty well in seed 15 but I made an early mistake that seriously began to cost me around cycle 60. I didn' find and set up a good spot to dump polluted water right away but I did set up a mopping station for my good water, as I was draining high level water reserves in to low level water reserves. The moment my hand washing station produced polluted water the option became available and defaulted for my water drain station to accept polluted water and dump it in to my good water. It happened exactly once. At first, it looked like the germs in my clean would slowly dilute and die. 30+ cycles later this was not the case and my dups were gettting sick of food poisoning en masse. Having one or two of less than 10 dups getting sick for a few cycles feels like is should be part of the game under the right (wrong) circumstance but my colony pretty much was fucked with a single source of clean water turned tainted and everyone slowly becoming more food poisoned than their immune systems could take.
So I really like seed 15 and started it again. I have a lot of slime biomes around me, so I'm carving my way out of the starting area slowly. I really should start thinking about the infrastructure required to build exosuits (a point in the game I've yet to learn and embrace).
Also, I'm really enjoying trying to maintain my natural resources. With no farms in my current surroundings I have to make about three muck bars or whatever their called once every five or six cycles to feed eight dups. Otherwise they survive off natural harvest cycles of the crops around me. Coal and copper are concerns on this seed though. Seed 15 is very light copper map. Based in this thread, I'm conserving my copper in anticipation of later learning exosuit efficiency.
So right now, I've got the basics in (minus a farm) and I'm carving out more space, wondering if I my next step is going to be exosuits, running water, a power source more advanced than coal burning, better ventilation to reduce germs (which I have actually done successfully in the past, yay me!), or ranching.
I am surprised that, at this moment, the game is really all about learning concepts of the game (much as all Dwarf Fortress colony/builder games are) and yet it seems to have me more than any other game since DF. Kinda makes me want to drop the money for Rimworld, because I'm dumb that way and I always want the toys the other kids are playing with.
Last edited by LordMortis on Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Lorini
- Posts: 8282
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
- Location: Santa Clarita, California
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
The reveal choice is at the end of the sandbox choices.
Glad you are enjoying it![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon/biggrin.gif)
Glad you are enjoying it
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon/biggrin.gif)
Black Lives Matter
- LordMortis
- Posts: 70231
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
Built my first basic ranch and then read the wiki on it. Ranches are going to be a huge critter to space ratio, work intensive, and provide little resources, especially if you "breed" your animals. Still I want to experience the dynamic and I am sure I'll find a good economic way to work with my critters and am hoping eggs will be more efficient on resources than farming. Finding the way that makes sense is part of the allure of these games.
Got my Hydrogen power up and running and then discovered how quickly it uses up hydrogen, so it's back to coal for now, and now I'm looking for coal veins to keep me afloat until the next thing is within reach.
I'm still a bit intimidated against creating a good running water scheme. I think I"m still turned off by my pipe problem from when I set the game down in July... Maybe this weekend... Though I need to carve out a much larger slime infested area to expand first and that is a slow initiative, as I swear to pancake immunities have compromised with the last update, so expansion in to slime seems to happen where it takes about to 10 day cycles of all of my dups to carve out another space. I'm debating going the flood areas with chlorine route and see what happens.
I'm hoping exosuits will reduce slimelung susceptibility, so they may be next goal...
Got my Hydrogen power up and running and then discovered how quickly it uses up hydrogen, so it's back to coal for now, and now I'm looking for coal veins to keep me afloat until the next thing is within reach.
I'm still a bit intimidated against creating a good running water scheme. I think I"m still turned off by my pipe problem from when I set the game down in July... Maybe this weekend... Though I need to carve out a much larger slime infested area to expand first and that is a slow initiative, as I swear to pancake immunities have compromised with the last update, so expansion in to slime seems to happen where it takes about to 10 day cycles of all of my dups to carve out another space. I'm debating going the flood areas with chlorine route and see what happens.
I'm hoping exosuits will reduce slimelung susceptibility, so they may be next goal...
- Sepiche
- Posts: 8112
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:00 pm
- Location: Olathe, KS
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
Yeah, they are really the best way to deal with bad air of whatever sort. Keep in mind though you will need to both power the suit dock, and provide it with O2, so be ready to pipe some air into the suit racks.LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:05 am I'm hoping exosuits will reduce slimelung susceptibility, so they may be next goal...
- LordMortis
- Posts: 70231
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
I've not had a problem with gas piping and separation, so I should be able to make that work pretty easy when the time comes to learn (this weekend?). It's manipulating liquids that gives me conniptions... and maybe I'll dive back in to them this weekend too. We'll see. I'm likely to play throne breaker this weekend as well and when my mental state and physical health is something approaching human I should only give so much weekend time to the computer.Sepiche wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:06 amYeah, they are really the best way to deal with bad air of whatever sort. Keep in mind though you will need to both power the suit dock, and provide it with O2, so be ready to pipe some air into the suit racks.LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:05 am I'm hoping exosuits will reduce slimelung susceptibility, so they may be next goal...
- Lorini
- Posts: 8282
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- Location: Santa Clarita, California
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
Breeding hatches means you never have to worry about power again.
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- LordMortis
- Posts: 70231
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
That's where I'm at right now. I have 8 of them in farms and one just laid my first tame egg.
And I'm mostly stuck in my small habitat for fear of slimelung and I discovered I haven't researched exosuits yet so I'm putzing along until I do.
And I'm mostly stuck in my small habitat for fear of slimelung and I discovered I haven't researched exosuits yet so I'm putzing along until I do.
- LordMortis
- Posts: 70231
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
Got my exosuits up and running and limited my east exit to one point of entry. Slimelung babysitting has been completely eliminated as I concentrate on solely on my east exit for the moment, but my rig for exosuits is power intensive, forcing me to vent CO2 deep undergound, which is even more power intensive. Also the cost of not babysitting is a much much slower workforce. Productivity goes way down when you have suit up move slow and then suit down and dups aren't really smart about organizing their workload.
I'm also to the point where I'm wondering if I should rethink my main source of O2 generation. I have a network of deoderizers, culminating in an pump to keep my living area oxygenated but I'm beginning to the think slime to PO2 to deoderizer to O2 might not be the most efficient means of producing O2 and I'll be approaching screwed as I finish carving out the biome, so I'm trying to re-evalute my O2 production concurrently with working toward my next power source. I also am running out of algae which is still necessary even with all the slime to 02 production. I've uncovered a hydrogen vent but it's so slow to produce hydrogen that I'm a ways off from harnessing it's power. I'm digging down toward petrol and I've found a natural gas vent but it's way way way far away and I'm debating the logic and logistics of creating a pollution zone to create P02 to create oxygen.
I may need to expand my hatch farms before I can harness another medium and now I figure I want to learn how to do electrolizers and/or algae makers. So it looks like I'm still putting off plumbing an running water...
I have a pretty big hatch farm already but it's not nearly enough. I tried farming dreckos but failed and then had to look up why and decide they can wait, which doubled my hatch farm from 8 to 16 tended critters.
My farmless colony remains farmless, so there's that.
Also I'm up 13 dups that might be a mistake and the reason I'm going through oxygen so quickly. My problem is every time I see a dub five learning and a no showstopping drawback I add them to my workforce.
By far my best and best understood effort and I'm not getting the itch to reset, 140 or more cycles in.
![Enlarge Image](https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/939458259785868059/9A7FF5AEC85D90B516987BB8446F1C17753057D4/)
![Enlarge Image](https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/939458259785867448/4DA7F7DD9E45AF434C9FBEA2B22E83131AEE8DFD/)
I'm also to the point where I'm wondering if I should rethink my main source of O2 generation. I have a network of deoderizers, culminating in an pump to keep my living area oxygenated but I'm beginning to the think slime to PO2 to deoderizer to O2 might not be the most efficient means of producing O2 and I'll be approaching screwed as I finish carving out the biome, so I'm trying to re-evalute my O2 production concurrently with working toward my next power source. I also am running out of algae which is still necessary even with all the slime to 02 production. I've uncovered a hydrogen vent but it's so slow to produce hydrogen that I'm a ways off from harnessing it's power. I'm digging down toward petrol and I've found a natural gas vent but it's way way way far away and I'm debating the logic and logistics of creating a pollution zone to create P02 to create oxygen.
I may need to expand my hatch farms before I can harness another medium and now I figure I want to learn how to do electrolizers and/or algae makers. So it looks like I'm still putting off plumbing an running water...
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon/biggrin.gif)
My farmless colony remains farmless, so there's that.
Also I'm up 13 dups that might be a mistake and the reason I'm going through oxygen so quickly. My problem is every time I see a dub five learning and a no showstopping drawback I add them to my workforce.
By far my best and best understood effort and I'm not getting the itch to reset, 140 or more cycles in.
- Formix
- Posts: 640
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:48 am
Re: Oxygen Not Included! (Early Access)
So I'm a little confused. Are the geysers randomly generated within a given seed? I'm asking because I restarted after almost 200 cycles on a given seed, but not all of the geysers are where they were in my previous save using the same 666 seed.