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All Things Saudi

For discussion of religion and politics

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malchior
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by malchior » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:44 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:26 pm
Interesting line in an unrelated article about declining numbers at Trump hotels:

At Trump's hotel in Chicago, a document investors saw last week showed a similar drop-off [as New York]. Bookings fell 8 percent from 2015 to 2016, and this year's figures are still lower than the pace in 2016.

At both hotels, the Trump Organization told investors that it did have some good news: In recent months, their losses had been cushioned, partly by new customers from overseas. Both hotels noted an influx of visitors from Saudi Arabia.
I'm sure it is just a coincidence.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:18 pm

WaPo
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced Tuesday that the United States is revoking visas for the Saudi men accused of killing journalist Jamal Khashoggi at the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul.

The U.S. measures represent the Trump administration’s first concrete step to punish Saudi Arabia for what the Turkish government called the “planned” and “brutal” murder of a Washington Post contributing columnist.

Pompeo said he is also working with the Treasury Department on whether to impose other sanctions against those responsible for the journalist’s death.

“These penalties will not be the last word on this matter from the United States,” Pompeo said during a briefing at the State Department. “We will continue to explore additional measures to hold those responsible accountable.”

Earlier in the day, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan called on Saudi Arabia to extradite 18 suspects to Turkey to face justice for the crime.
...
The Turkish leader did not directly accuse the Saudi leadership of involvement in the killing but strongly indicated that the Saudi investigation, which has resulted in the arrests of 18 people so far, had not reached high enough into the kingdom’s ruling circles.

“It will not satisfy the public by just pinning this kind of matter on a few security and intelligence officers,” he said. “Covering up this kind of savagery will hurt the conscience of all humanity.”
When Erdogan has stronger condemnation of this than we do, it's a sad day.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by malchior » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:18 pm


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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Kraken » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:24 pm

Inigo meets the 6-fingered man.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by em2nought » Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:53 pm

Looks like there's finally a job opening for Hillary, the Saudis need a consultant who knows how to leave a trail of bodies behind without anyone ever suspecting. :wink:
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by hepcat » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:03 pm

There you go. I was wondering why it was taking you so long to bring the dumb.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Enough » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:04 pm

My blog (mostly photos): Fort Ephemera - My Flickr Photostream

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Alefroth » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:40 pm

em2nought wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:53 pm
how to leave a trail of bodies behind without anyone ever suspecting. :wink:
Not possible. As you know, idiots will suspect anything.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by LawBeefaroni » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:32 pm

You don't say...

Saudis now admit Jamal Khashoggi’s killing was planned

The killing of Jamal Khashoggi was planned ahead of time, Saudi Arabian officials said Thursday in the latest flip-flop on the journalist’s mysterious death.

The statement from Saudi prosecutors reverses their previous explanation that the 59-year-old writer died accidentally during a fistfight in the kingdom’s consulate in Istanbul.

Saudi Attorney General Saud al-Mojeb said investigators reached their conclusion that Khashoggi’s slaying was premeditated after examining evidence from Turkish officials as part of their joint investigation, a statement on the state-run Saudi Press Agency said.

...
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GreenGoo
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:34 pm

*big middle finger to the world, including the drumpf*

Oh wait, it wasn't premeditated by mbs. Just rogue elements. Gotcha.

I am shocked at this discovery. What a twist!

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by hepcat » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:45 am

At this point it feels like Erdogan (I'm such a nerd, I keep wanting to write Etrigan) is just releasing a small amount of info at a time, then when the Saudis make a proclamation he immediately releases something that contradicts them. He's probably enemy number one of the Saudi royals right now.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by coopasonic » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:47 am

hepcat wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:45 am
He's probably enemy number one of the Saudi royals right now.
Which doesn't seem like a great spot to be in, but it couldn't happen to a better target person.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:02 pm

hepcat wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:45 am
At this point it feels like Erdogan (I'm such a nerd, I keep wanting to write Etrigan) is just releasing a small amount of info at a time, then when the Saudis make a proclamation he immediately releases something that contradicts them. He's probably enemy number one of the Saudi royals right now.
It not only feels like that, it is that. His intent has always been to undermine and embarrass the Saudis and mbs in particular. They are in a power struggle in the region and up until now the Saudis have had the upper hand.

Erdogan believes that the tables are turning, and articles have been written to that effect. Whether it's true or not...I'm not seeing a huge amount of fallout for kidnapping and murdering an international journalist critical of Saudi leadership, so I'm thinking Erdogan and some article writers are wrong. But they are the experts on middle east politics, not me.

In any case, Turkey's main goal here has always been to embarrass and expose the Saudis. He does not give two craps about Khashoggi or what happened to him outside of how he can use it to his advantage. I realize that's not news to you but it's a good reference point when thinking about his motives.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman » Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:22 pm

Well, looks like Mattis might be on the way out the door...

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Pyperkub » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:18 pm

I'm sensing a pattern...
Saudi journalist and writer Turki Bin Abdul Aziz Al-Jasser has died after being tortured while in detention, the New Khaleej reported yesterday.

Reporting human rights sources, the news site said that Al-Jasser was arrested and tortured to death after Saudi authorities claimed he administered the Twitter account Kashkool, which disclosed rights violations committed by the Saudi authorities and royal family.

The sources said that the authorities identified Al-Jasser as the admin using spies in Twitter’s regional office located in Dubai. He was arrested in March.
And these are only the ones we know about.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Isgrimnur » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:38 pm

WaPo
An audio recording tracking the dying moments of journalist Jamal Khashoggi inside the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul has been shared with Saudi Arabia, Britain, France and Germany in addition to the United States, the Turkish president said Saturday.

“We gave it to Saudi Arabia,” said Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan spoke at Ankara airport before departing for Paris for commemorations to mark the 100th anniversary of the end of World War I. “We gave it to America. To the Germans, French, English, we gave it to all of them.”

It was the first time that Erdogan has publicly acknowledged the existence of audio recording that Turkish officials say backs the assertion that Khashoggi, a contributor to The Washington Post World Opinions section, was killed by a 15-member Saudi hit team after he entered the consulate on Oct. 2.
...
Saudi Arabia now acknowledges that Khashoggi was intentionally killed in the building and says it has arrested 18 suspects. It also has fired two senior officials close to Saudi’s Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

The crown prince has not been directly implicated by Turkey, but Erdogan has said that the order to kill Khashoggi came from the “highest levels” in Saudi Arabia and that he doesn’t believe the country’s ruler King Salman is responsible.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Max Peck » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:07 am

Canada has heard Turkish recordings on Khashoggi's killing: Trudeau
Canadian intelligence officers have listened to Turkish recordings of what happened to Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said on Monday, adding that he was discussing with allies what next steps should be taken.

Khashoggi, a critic of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, was killed at the kingdom’s Istanbul consulate by a team sent from Riyadh. Saudi authorities have acknowledged that the killing was premeditated, but his body has not been found.

Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said over the weekend that audio recordings of the killing had been given to the U.S., French, German and British governments.

When asked on a visit to Paris whether Canadian intelligence had heard the Turkish recordings, Trudeau said: “Yes”, although he added that had not heard them personally.

“Canada’s intelligence agencies have been working very closely on this issue with Turkish intelligence and Canada has been fully briefed on what Turkey had to share,” Trudeau told a news conference.
Time and tide melt the snowman.

There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:12 pm

...!


NBC News wrote:NEW: Exclusive: Trump admin. officials asked federal law enforcement agencies to examine legal ways of removing exiled Turkish cleric Fethullah Gulen from US in attempt to persuade Turkish Pres. Erdogan to ease pressure on Saudi gov't, four sources say.
Thread

So... we're going to let Erdogan murder Gulen to get beyond MBS's murder of Khashoggi?

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Captain Caveman
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Captain Caveman » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:15 pm

Wow, that is shockingly evil. Send a U.S. resident to his probable death to help the Saudi's skirt consequences for murdering a journalist.

What have we become?

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by LordMortis » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:43 pm

The article on NBC beyond the tweet has a lot more to say. I'd be afraid to run with that headline alone.
Erdogan has for years demanded the U.S. send Gulen back to Turkey. The Turkish leader accuses the elderly cleric of being a terrorist who was behind a failed coup against Erdogan's government in 2016. After the coup attempt, Ankara made a formal request to the U.S. for Gulen's extradition.

One option that Turkish and Trump administration officials recently discussed is forcing Gulen to relocate to South Africa rather than sending him directly to Turkey if extradition is not possible, said the U.S. officials and people briefed on the discussions. But the U.S. does not have any legal justification to send Gulen to South Africa, they said, so that wouldn't be a viable option unless he went willingly.

Trump and Erdogan also recently discussed another option to relieve tensions — the release of Turkish banker Mehmet Hakan Atilla, who was sentenced in May to 32 months in prison by a U.S. federal judge for his role in a scheme to evade U.S. sanctions against Iran, two people familiar with the discussion said. Erdogan has criticized the case against Atilla as a political attack aimed at undermining his government.

The U.S. and Turkey have been engaged in negotiations over a series of sensitive diplomatic issues over the past few months, including a deal for last month’s release of an American pastor, Andrew Brunson, who was imprisoned in Turkey and an agreement for joint U.S. and Turkish military patrols in Manbij, Syria.
The requests on Gulen in mid-October mark at least the second time the Trump administration has re-examined Turkey's extradition request since taking office. In the weeks after Trump's inauguration, the White House asked the Justice Department to review Gulen's case, NBC has reported.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:20 pm

Captain Caveman wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:15 pm
Wow, that is shockingly evil. Send a U.S. resident to his probable death to help the Saudi's skirt consequences for murdering a journalist.

What have we become?
Don't forget the torture! Everyone always forget about the torture first.

In any case, this is so shockingly terrible that I don't believe it.

Well, maybe I believe that Drumpf or his cronies have brought it up, but I'll be amazed if it goes anywhere. And Mr cleric will be dead, so maybe it's not *all* about how I feel.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Remus West » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:38 pm

Captain Caveman wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:15 pm
Wow, that is shockingly evil. Send a U.S. resident to his probable death to help the Saudi's skirt consequences for murdering an American journalist.

What have we become?
FTFY since it is even worse when accurate.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by malchior » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:48 pm

Are we the baddies?

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by hitbyambulance » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:38 pm

Holman wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:12 pm
...!


NBC News wrote:NEW: Exclusive: Trump admin. officials asked federal law enforcement agencies to examine legal ways of removing exiled Turkish cleric Fethullah Gulen from US in attempt to persuade Turkish Pres. Erdogan to ease pressure on Saudi gov't, four sources say.
Thread

So... we're going to let Erdogan murder Gulen to get beyond MBS's murder of Khashoggi?

Shining Fucking City on a Shining Fucking Hill.
this is incredibly fucked up.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Kraken » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:29 pm

Holman wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:12 pm


Maybe we could swap out this guy.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Bongo66 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:26 pm

malchior wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:48 pm
Are we the baddies?


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hepcat
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by hepcat » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:22 pm

A classic from the new guy! Welcome!
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Bongo66 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:50 pm

hepcat wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:22 pm
A classic from the new guy! Welcome!
Thank you for the welcome from one of my favorite posters. :)

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Alefroth
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Alefroth » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:15 am

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... 6aa587d2e1
The CIA has concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the assassination of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul last month, contradicting the Saudi government’s claims that he was not involved in the killing, according to people familiar with the matter.
:shock: There's no putting that cat back in the bag.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Unagi » Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:26 am

I just came here to share the same news.

How will Trump push ahead with his juicy arms deal.
Throw shade on the CiA, right?

It will be interesting to see how long it takes the administration to get on board.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Fitzy » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:00 am

Alefroth wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:15 am
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... 6aa587d2e1
The CIA has concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the assassination of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul last month, contradicting the Saudi government’s claims that he was not involved in the killing, according to people familiar with the matter.
:shock: There's no putting that cat back in the bag.
The intelligence community said Russia helped Trump in 2016 (no comment on if Trump paid them for it), that cat seems to have gone back in the bag. This won’t even be remembered in a year.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GungHo » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:50 am

I'm curious how the trumpinistas square the selling of the Turkish cleric back to Turkey for their silence, when we ourselves are now saying out loud what we hoped to keep Turkey from saying.

Short story, the trump administration is a clown show.

I'm sure they're frustrated though as it felt to me like the Khashoggi story was falling to the back pages and they were almost through this. Then our silly CIA has to go and start pointing out the shitty dictators for all the world to see.
OR
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Max Peck » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:45 pm

GungHo wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:50 am
I'm curious how the trumpinistas square the selling of the Turkish cleric back to Turkey for their silence, when we ourselves are now saying out loud what we hoped to keep Turkey from saying.
The Trumpists will be told that Gulen is an extremist, just as they were told that Khashoggi was an extremist. For the time being, the US government has not officially stated that they believe that MBS ordered the killing. That was leaked by someone connected to the Deep State® intelligence community. It may increase the political cost for Trump to provide cover for MBS, but I wouldn't count on the administration deciding to hold him responsible. Trump may well spin it as more Fake News®, even if other western governments explicitly blame MBS.
Time and tide melt the snowman.

There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:01 pm

The states, turkey and Saudi are not the only players paying attention.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo » Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:37 pm

Surprise! WH claims no conclusions reached as of yet.

Also, Drumpf is expecting a "very full" report on the subject.

Being the cynic I am, I'll wait for the super mega ultra street fighter II full report.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by RunningMn9 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:35 pm

I expect it to be a beautiful report. Very beautiful report.


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Well he's slowly drifting out of range

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Max Peck » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:48 pm

I expect the report will be submitted in connect-the-dots format, accompanied by a deluxe set of crayola crayons so that Trump can color it in as he sees fit.
Time and tide melt the snowman.

There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
-- The Doctor

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo » Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:20 pm

Max Peck wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:48 pm
I expect the report will be submitted in connect-the-dots format, accompanied by a deluxe set of crayola crayons so that Trump can color it in as he sees fit.
I'm sure everyone is reminding each other to compliment his creativity when he colors the sky green, the sea pink and the sun black as his soul.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Max Peck » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:29 am

He's never going to be a real strongman if he's too delicate to listen to a recording of the Saudis doing exactly what he wishes he could do to any number of Fake News® journalists. Sad.

Jamal Khashoggi: Trump won't listen to 'terrible' murder recording
US President Donald Trump says he has been briefed on a recording of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi's murder - but will not listen to it himself.

"It's a suffering tape, it's a terrible tape," he told Fox News Sunday.

The CIA has reportedly concluded the powerful Saudi Crown Prince ordered the killing but the White House is yet to endorse that assessment.

Saudi Arabia has called the claim false and denied Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman had any knowledge of the murder.

Khashoggi, a prominent critic of the Saudi government, was killed after entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul on 2 October to obtain a marriage document.
Why won't he listen to the tape?

The US president said he did not have to, given he had been fully briefed on its content.

"I know everything that went on in the tape without having to hear it," he told Fox. "It was very violent, very vicious and terrible."
Time and tide melt the snowman.

There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
-- The Doctor

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:25 pm

I wouldn't listen to it either.

To the best of my knowledge, Trudeau has yet to do so.

If we're just picking on drumpf because he's a doofus, then have at it. I don't think it's a valid criticism however.

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