First it is wrong. Second even if it was true how does it make it any better?
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Shutdown
Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus
- Holman
- Posts: 29102
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
- Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon
Re: Shutdown
Yeah, the figure of the crazy older relative buying conspiracy theories is older than social media. (Remember chain emails?)El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:06 pmYeah, I had the same reaction. Now I would think that the userbase of Facebook would skew slightly young, but other than that, who doesn't think that old people believe some crazy shit when they see it online?LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:04 pm Who were under the impression young people were the great disseminators of non sourced material and propaganda? Maybe youth not sourcing information is a myth held by old people? Young people will stop everything to look shit up on their phone. That would have been my mom's dream when I was a child when her answer to everything was "look it up".
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- gilraen
- Posts: 4352
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Re: Shutdown
E. coli, anyone?
[FDA] has suspended all routine inspections of domestic food-processing facilities, FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in an interview. He is working on a plan to bring inspectors back as early as next week to inspect facilities considered high-risk because they handle sensitive items such as seafood, soft cheese and vegetables, or have a history of problems.
Last edited by gilraen on Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Smoove_B
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- LordMortis
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Re: Shutdown
I would think the FDA not working just because they aren't being funded is an prime example of the left scoring political points at the expense of the people and example of how if we just let the free market work we wouldn't have all of these problems with the governments refusal to do their jobs.
- LordMortis
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- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm
Re: Shutdown
thought this interesting
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tr ... 16bcfc05bd
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tr ... 16bcfc05bd
The nine House members representing border districts from California to Texas voted in favor of reopening the government without additional money for the wall.
- pr0ner
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Re: Shutdown
Uhhhh, what?LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:30 pm I would think the FDA not working just because they aren't being funded is an prime example of the left scoring political points at the expense of the people and example of how if we just let the free market work we wouldn't have all of these problems with the governments refusal to do their jobs.
FYI, for a lot of federal employees, they couldn't do their jobs if they're furloughed due to lack of appropriations even if they wanted to, because such activities are illegal.
Hodor.
- YellowKing
- Posts: 30272
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Re: Shutdown
So the water cooler talk among my Trumpster Fire co-workers today was that "Democrats wanted the wall under Obama, and they're only against it because Trump is President."
As you might expect, this is blatantly false. The Democrats authorized fencing (not a wall) under the Obama administration. And they STILL support that same fencing - in fact, they openly support money for maintenance of the ~700 miles of fencing that exists. What they don't support is a stupid fucking concrete wall.
As you might expect, this is blatantly false. The Democrats authorized fencing (not a wall) under the Obama administration. And they STILL support that same fencing - in fact, they openly support money for maintenance of the ~700 miles of fencing that exists. What they don't support is a stupid fucking concrete wall.
- Chaz
- Posts: 7381
- Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:37 am
- Location: Southern NH
Re: Shutdown
Hey, Trump is perfectly happy to have it be a 30' steel slat barricade. See? He's willing to compromise, and the dems are being unreasonable.
I can't imagine, even at my most inebriated, hearing a bouncer offering me an hour with a stripper for only $1,400 and thinking That sounds like a reasonable idea.-Two Sheds
- $iljanus
- Forum Moderator
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- Location: New England...or under your bed
Re: Shutdown
Yup. As a former Federal employee who has been through a couple of shutdowns, if you weren't on the "essential" list then you were barred from coming into work and there were penalties which could be imposed if you came in. Many people in the labs would rather have come in to work so it isn't a "left vs right" thing, at least in my neck of the woods which was the NIH.pr0ner wrote:Uhhhh, what?LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:30 pm I would think the FDA not working just because they aren't being funded is an prime example of the left scoring political points at the expense of the people and example of how if we just let the free market work we wouldn't have all of these problems with the governments refusal to do their jobs.
FYI, for a lot of federal employees, they couldn't do their jobs if they're furloughed due to lack of appropriations even if they wanted to, because such activities are illegal.
Black lives matter!
Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
- LawBeefaroni
- Forum Moderator
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Re: Shutdown
What about steel slats (aka moving goalposts)?YellowKing wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:22 pm
As you might expect, this is blatantly false. The Democrats authorized fencing (not a wall) under the Obama administration. And they STILL support that same fencing - in fact, they openly support money for maintenance of the ~700 miles of fencing that exists. What they don't support is a stupid fucking concrete wall.
Btw, if the Dems wanted a wall under Obama, why was Trump's opposition rallying cry "Build that wall!!!"?
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
-
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Re: Shutdown
Trump said "it will pay for itself." So, it will be a toll wall? I still think most will go over/under/around or simply overstay their visa rather than pay the 100 pesos or whatever the toll might be.
Black Lives Matter
- Skinypupy
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Re: Shutdown
Exactly this.$iljanus wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:32 pmYup. As a former Federal employee who has been through a couple of shutdowns, if you weren't on the "essential" list then you were barred from coming into work and there were penalties which could be imposed if you came in. Many people in the labs would rather have come in to work so it isn't a "left vs right" thing, at least in my neck of the woods which was the NIH.pr0ner wrote:Uhhhh, what?LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:30 pm I would think the FDA not working just because they aren't being funded is an prime example of the left scoring political points at the expense of the people and example of how if we just let the free market work we wouldn't have all of these problems with the governments refusal to do their jobs.
FYI, for a lot of federal employees, they couldn't do their jobs if they're furloughed due to lack of appropriations even if they wanted to, because such activities are illegal.
I had two clients call me today (one from Park Service and one FDA) from their personal cell phones to make sure that I had canceled their upcoming training programs so they wouldn’t get hit with a cancellation fee. Both of them were very explicit that “I’m NOT calling you in my government capacity, just as concerned citizen”. They can get in big trouble if it was discovered they were “working” in any capacity during a shutdown.
This whole debacle is proving how much better the GOP is at messaging though. I have also heard the same “Obama wanted a wall” talking point multiple times. When Trump stormed out today, the immediate talking point should have been, “We are in full support of border security, but $5B for a stupid-ass wall is a non-starter. We are happy to explore options which will intelligently bolster our nation’s security...blah, blah, blah.” Instead, all we heard was “Pelosi refuses to talk about border security”.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
- Smoove_B
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Re: Shutdown
To be fair, Nancy Pelosi has been using Obama's time machine to block the border wall since 2016 - when the GOP took full control of Congress.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: Shutdown
You think it's just the Dems? When Trump castigated them for going home for the holidays, the elephants could have stayed, had a quorum, and pass whatever the hell they wanted. As mentioned in Ann internet meme, "they could have approved $100 trillion for a plutonium wall and nothing could have stopped them." More then you think consider this a folly and are content to let it founder.
Black Lives Matter
- LordMortis
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Re: Shutdown
I can't speak to the friends and talking points but Obama did vote to build " a secure fence" under Bush and then enforced Bush's Law, as rule of law meant something under is administration most of the time. Reading about it, the whole thing has been a debacle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006
Read the link to the history I left on the last page if you have time (it's very long by today's reading). (And much of it did occur under Obama's watch) This was for half the cost for 1/3rd of the land to build fences.
I don't object to eminent domain but... and you'd think people objectiing to federal over reach would raise an eyebrow...
Spoiler because even taking selected quotes is a lot.
In short, I can accept the Obama "wanted a wall" and "started a wall" and I can use that as evidence against Trump's wall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006
Read the link to the history I left on the last page if you have time (it's very long by today's reading). (And much of it did occur under Obama's watch) This was for half the cost for 1/3rd of the land to build fences.
I don't object to eminent domain but... and you'd think people objectiing to federal over reach would raise an eyebrow...
Spoiler because even taking selected quotes is a lot.
In short, I can accept the Obama "wanted a wall" and "started a wall" and I can use that as evidence against Trump's wall.
Spoiler:
- Isgrimnur
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Re: Shutdown
WaPo
Employees of the U.S. Coast Guard who are facing a long U.S. government shutdown just received a suggestion: To get by without pay, consider holding a garage sale, babysitting, dog-walking or serving as a “mystery shopper.”
The suggestions were part of a five-page tip sheet published by the Coast Guard Support Program, an employee-assistance arm of the service often known as CG SUPRT. It is designated to offer Coast Guard members help with mental-health issues or other concerns about their lives, including financial wellness.
“Bankruptcy is a last option,” the document said.
...
The tip sheet, titled “Managing your finances during a furlough,” applies to the Coast Guard’s 8,500-person civilian workforce. About 6,400 of them are on indefinite furlough, while 2,100 are working without pay after being identified as essential workers, said Lt. Cmdr. Scott McBride, a service spokesman. They were last paid for the two-week period ended Dec. 22.
“While it may be uncomfortable to deal with the hard facts, it’s best to avoid the 'hide your head in the sand’ reaction,” the tip sheet said. “Stay in charge of the situation by getting a clear understanding of what’s happening.”
The Coast Guard removed the tip sheet from the support program’s website late Wednesday morning after The Washington Post inquired about it.
The suggestions do not “reflect the Coast Guard’s current efforts to support our workforce during this lapse in appropriations,” McBride said. “As such, this guidance has been removed.”
...
Late last month, the Coast Guard announced it had found enough money to pay its service members one last time through the end of the year. The Trump administration took credit afterward, releasing a statement that said the president and some of his staff members had worked “round the clock” to address the issue.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
- LordMortis
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Re: Shutdown
We should do something to increase border security if we aren't going to pay our Coast Guard.
We are so broken.
We are so broken.
- pr0ner
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Re: Shutdown
As with your FDA comment:LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:34 am We should do something to increase border security if we aren't going to pay our Coast Guard.
We are so broken.
Uhhh, what?
The uniformed officers and enlisteds of the US Coast Guard are still getting paid. The ones not working are part of their civilian support staff.
Hodor.
- Isgrimnur
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Re: Shutdown
NPR
The partial government shutdown affects one branch of the United States military. It's the Coast Guard, which normally operates under the Department of Homeland Security. Forty-two thousand members of the Coast Guard are considered essential personnel so they must work.
They got a pay check December 31, but it's not clear when they can be paid again. They once answered to Admiral Thad Allen, who is a former commandant of the Coast Guard. He directed the response to Hurricane Katrina years ago, and he's in our studios. Admiral, welcome to the program.
...
INSKEEP: Would you describe what duties they are fulfilling without pay right now? What are the ordinary daily operations of the Coast Guard?
ALLEN: Well, the Coast Guard is essentially the emergency services in the maritime environment for the country. There are people standing search-and-rescue watch over every inch of coastline in the United States right now. They are cutters patrolling off shore. There's drug interdiction operations going on. We have an icebreaker en route to Antarctica to break up McMurdo so they can resupply the South Pole. All that's continuing.
...
INSKEEP: So let me understand this. If you're concerned about the flow of illegal drugs from Latin America into the United States, what you want to worry about is the Coast Guard?
ALLEN: It's quizzical, isn't it?
INSKEEP: (Laughter). What do you mean by quizzical?
ALLEN: It doesn't make sense.
INSKEEP: That they would not be paid in this situation?
ALLEN: Well, there are other government agencies. We have the Department of Agriculture, the Forest Service, National Park Service. Everybody's in the same condition right now, and we ought to be concerned about it.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
- pr0ner
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Re: Shutdown
Huh. I thought they were more military than DHS and would be getting paid for the duration.
Hodor.
- Isgrimnur
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Re: Shutdown
NBC News
President Donald Trump has repeatedly advocated for a steel slat design for his border wall, which he described as "absolutely critical to border security" in his Oval Office address to the nation Tuesday. But Department of Homeland Security testing of a steel slat prototype proved it could be cut through with a saw, according to a report by DHS.
A photo exclusively obtained by NBC News shows the results of the test after military and Border Patrol personnel were instructed to attempt to destroy the barriers with common tools.
...
However, testing by DHS in late 2017 showed all eight prototypes, including the steel slats, were vulnerable to breaching, according to an internal February 2018 U.S. Customs and Border Protection report.
...
Responding to the picture from the South Lawn of the White House on Thursday morning, Trump claimed "that’s a wall designed by previous administrations."
While it is true that previous administrations used this design, the prototype was built during his administration.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
- LawBeefaroni
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Re: Shutdown
What's sad is that he actually thinks an impenetrable wall is realistically possible.
Of course steel and concrete can be cut. So easy to get him off balance.
Of course steel and concrete can be cut. So easy to get him off balance.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
- coopasonic
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Re: Shutdown
I am guessing they don't have ladders in Mexico?
Also, is C4 a common tool? When I was in the Army I saw it all the time, but I have seen it less in recent years.A photo exclusively obtained by NBC News shows the results of the test after military and Border Patrol personnel were instructed to attempt to destroy the barriers with common tools.
-Coop
Black Lives Matter
Black Lives Matter
- Pyperkub
- Posts: 23749
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Re: Shutdown
Implying even higher maintenance costs.LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:23 pm What's sad is that he actually thinks an impenetrable wall is realistically possible.
Of course steel and concrete can be cut. So easy to get him off balance.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- Holman
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Re: Shutdown
Trump denies that he ever said Mexico would "write out a check" for the Wall.
You will be shocked to learn that he's lying. Numerous reporters have been talking about the detailed, step-by-step, batshit insane Wall plan that was prominent on Trump's website throughout the entire 2016 campaign.
It involved holding the Mexican economy hostage until they pay up.
This is the most entertaining thread I've seen on it.
You will be shocked to learn that he's lying. Numerous reporters have been talking about the detailed, step-by-step, batshit insane Wall plan that was prominent on Trump's website throughout the entire 2016 campaign.
It involved holding the Mexican economy hostage until they pay up.
This is the most entertaining thread I've seen on it.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- hepcat
- Posts: 51882
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Re: Shutdown
It's great that Trump is flying down to McAllen Texas today to view the crisis up close...although it's going to be hard to do so when he's in one of the safest cities in America. Whoops.
Also, it's reported that Kushner is working with some GOP and Dem members on a way out of the crisis. Can we stop viewing him as some kind of great negotiator? The only reason this shithead is getting these meetings together is the Mangerine won't listen to anyone but relatives. And since he's hiring everyone but Barron to work for the government now, it's not like anyone else has a chance.
Also, it's reported that Kushner is working with some GOP and Dem members on a way out of the crisis. Can we stop viewing him as some kind of great negotiator? The only reason this shithead is getting these meetings together is the Mangerine won't listen to anyone but relatives. And since he's hiring everyone but Barron to work for the government now, it's not like anyone else has a chance.
He won. Period.
- Skinypupy
- Posts: 20445
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Re: Shutdown
And the hits just keep on comin'
Feature, not a bug.The FBI Agents Association claims that the shutdown could impact agents' ability to pay their debts, and that could jeopardize their security clearances.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
- Jaymann
- Posts: 19631
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Re: Shutdown
Can't they just raid the confiscated drug bust money?
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
- Paingod
- Posts: 13154
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Re: Shutdown
What makes you think they already haven't? An agent's gotta get his raise, yo.
Black Lives Matter
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
- Fireball
- Posts: 4762
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Re: Shutdown
Yes, that is what we are doing.
Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:17 am
Zarathud: The sad thing is that Barak Obama is a very intelligent and articulate person, even when you disagree with his views it's clear that he's very thoughtful. I would have loved to see Obama in a real debate.
Me: Wait 12 years, when he runs for president. :-)
Zarathud: The sad thing is that Barak Obama is a very intelligent and articulate person, even when you disagree with his views it's clear that he's very thoughtful. I would have loved to see Obama in a real debate.
Me: Wait 12 years, when he runs for president. :-)
- Unagi
- Posts: 26657
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Re: Shutdown
If you don't admit defeat, you can't have any funding.
How could you have any funding, if you don't admit defeat.
How could you have any funding, if you don't admit defeat.
- Kraken
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Re: Shutdown
Actually, the way around Trump is to make him think he won. The Chinese understand this and will pretend to deliver a trade agreement that Trump can pretend is a victory, so that the markets can pretend that crisis is over. In reality, China will concede the minimum that it can get away with in exchange for a return to business as usual (that's how negotiations work). For example, their federal government can repudiate technology transfer requirements...which actually take place as unwritten policies at the individual corporate level...without affecting anything.
Maybe Democrats can designate part of an existing fence "the MAGA-no Line" and Trump can crow about getting his wall.
Maybe Democrats can designate part of an existing fence "the MAGA-no Line" and Trump can crow about getting his wall.
- Isgrimnur
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Re: Shutdown
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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- Enough
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Re: Shutdown
Don't worry guys, Trump has figured out how to keep the shutdown impacts to a minimum. You can at least still go to the National Park site at Trump's DC hotel since for some odd reason it's in full operation (FOIA request filed to see what odd reason that might be). And while nearly all my colleagues that work in federal natural resource agencies are sitting on their butts at least the BLM employees tasked with opening the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil and gas have an exemption to keep working through the shutdown. Important stuff! Oh you would rather maybe the FDA still provide food safety? Silly lib!
OMG, this admin makes me head assplode on a daily basis, such motherfers. I personally have one BLM contract that we have been "awarded" that is in limbo land for who knows how long thanks to the shutdown. Even when it ends they will be massively behind leading to further delays. For natural resource workers if this thing goes much into Feb, or especially March, entire field seasons this summer could be canceled.
OMG, this admin makes me head assplode on a daily basis, such motherfers. I personally have one BLM contract that we have been "awarded" that is in limbo land for who knows how long thanks to the shutdown. Even when it ends they will be massively behind leading to further delays. For natural resource workers if this thing goes much into Feb, or especially March, entire field seasons this summer could be canceled.
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- hentzau
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Re: Shutdown
Brilliant.
“We can never allow Murania to become desecrated by the presence of surface people. Our lives are serene, our minds are superior, our accomplishments greater. Gene Autry must be captured!!!” - Queen Tika, The Phantom Empire
- Unagi
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Re: Shutdown
yeah, that was pretty damn clever.
-
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Re: Shutdown
Seems smart to get the hell out of dodge before hundreds of thousands of people don't get paid because their President and the entire GOP are garbage.