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Total War: Warhammer

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Max Peck
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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Max Peck » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:32 pm

True dat. I'm so used to thinking of them as a single game that I forgot there's a separate thread for WH2. :lol:
Time and tide melt the snowman.

There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
-- The Doctor

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GreenGoo
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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:24 pm

So I consolidated Sylvanvia and hired another vampire. My necromancer hero is running around trying to gain exp (can these guys die?) and another vampire hero just joined of her own volition. I got a quest to go to war with Stirland so I'm sieging Moot's cousin (whatever it's called) while a lack of vampire corruption chews away at my army. I have 1 giant battlefield where I can raise pretty much any vampire unit in the game, so now my army(ies) are eating into my income while I don't have anything to fight just yet.

I can't seem to find a way for both armies to attack the same target at once. Is that intended or am I missing something?

I want to start conquering everything but people say that's a sure way to lose, but I don't know what to do. I'm confused and scared. Games where I can't see a clear path (or at least a goal to drive towards with clear steps) make me extremely uncomfortable. I despise hitting next turn when I don't know what I'm doing, or trying to do. So much so that I feel like abandoning the game and finding something else to play.

"Let's click on this and see what happens" is basically an anathema to me, especially in a 4x or strategy game where everything is built on what came before it. Most games of these types snowball based on earlier turns and doing random things on early turns makes me want to find something else to play.

I don't know what public order does, although I guess we'll see rebellion maybe? I don't know what rebellion does so...it's just one big wtf does this do? Most guides are about combat, and that's the one thing I *don't* need help with. What buildings should I build? I have that battleground, so now production buildings seem less valuable? Should I build public order or corruption? So unsure of everything.

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Max Peck
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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Max Peck » Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:01 pm

There's a good wiki article on public order here. If you're not sure what is causing public order to break down, you can mouse over the stat in the province view to see a list of the factors affecting it.
Time and tide melt the snowman.

There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
-- The Doctor

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GreenGoo
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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:10 pm

Max Peck wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:01 pm
There's a good wiki article on public order here. If you're not sure what is causing public order to break down, you can mouse over the stat in the province view to see a list of the factors affecting it.
Thanks. I don't know what public order does, although like you said, the game tells you what is causing it to go up or down. I'll read the wiki. I see it mentions Skaven. The wiki does not contain a "2" in the title. Can I be confident public order works identically between the first and second games?

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Max Peck » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:03 pm

If public order drops to negative 100, then a rebel faction will spawn in that province. If left unchecked, the rebels will pillage the province, grow in strength and eventually attempt to conquer the province.
Time and tide melt the snowman.

There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
-- The Doctor

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Zenn7 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:12 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:10 pm
Max Peck wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:01 pm
There's a good wiki article on public order here. If you're not sure what is causing public order to break down, you can mouse over the stat in the province view to see a list of the factors affecting it.
Thanks. I don't know what public order does, although like you said, the game tells you what is causing it to go up or down. I'll read the wiki. I see it mentions Skaven. The wiki does not contain a "2" in the title. Can I be confident public order works identically between the first and second games?
1 and 2 can be used to play a grand campaign. Pretty sure any global rules work the same, just have to watch what your faction's special features are.

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Blackhawk » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:39 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:24 pm

I can't seem to find a way for both armies to attack the same target at once. Is that intended or am I missing something?
If one army is near another when another attacks, the second will show up as reinforcements during the battle, effectively giving you a double army. If you select 'Control Large Army' during the pre-battle screen, you'll control both. If not, the AI controls the second army.

Having never played them, I don't know about conquering with the VC. What I know from fighting them is that their buildings and heroes that spread corruption to non-VC provinces are an absolute nightmare. You end up with your border provinces with so much Vampiric Corruption that your own armies suffer attrition when in the field, public order tanks, and AI controlled vampire armies start cropping up from rebellions. I'd guess that it would be somewhat like trying for a cultural victory in Civ. Corrupt your neighbors so much that they can't oppose you.
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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:38 pm

Assignment: VC army composition and tactics for taking a walled dwarven city. Let me know.

Also, I can't for the life of me get my Necromancer with building income increasing skills to actually increase income. Anything you suggest I've already tried. Tell me anyway, as I'm clearly missing something. I've started a text file to track what I've tried and the income changes (so far there haven't been any).

I'm sieging a dwarf city. I have a mission to assassinate the leader in the city. My level 7 banshee cannot interact with the city or the army in it in any way. What am I doing wrong?

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Freyland » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:07 pm

You can't have an Agent perform an Active Mission against a city being actively seiged.
I don't remember where I read this, Cort, maybe it was in the last patch notes, but they said the UAZ really handles the best when... the wheels are actually touching the ground.
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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Blackhawk » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:07 pm

Army comp - that's a tough one. I can give some general thoughts about VCs vs stunties, but nothing specific for sieges. The biggest strength of the VCs is their fear effects. Dwarves have some of the best leadership in the game. They have some of the toughest armor in the game, too, solid missile units, and the best artillery in the game.

Their weaknesses are that they're slow, their units are expensive, their units are small, and they lack cavalry.

Take advantage of the first and last by outflanking the crap out of them. If they leave their artillery alone in the back, swarm it with fliers and cavalry.

Since they're expensive and have small units, take advantage of huge, cheap, expendable units to swamp their troops and keep them locked down. Then bring up your real troops - anything with armor piercing. It is a must against the dwarves. Either encircle them with the AP units or cluster them on one flank while the massed cheap units hold down the other. Outnumbered and with their armor neutralized, the advantage shifts to you. Oh, and ethereal units are a bitch unless you're prepared for them, too.
GreenGoo wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:38 pm
My level 7 banshee cannot interact with the city or the army in it in any way. What am I doing wrong?
The answer is:
I'm sieging a dwarf city.
You can't interact with besieged cities.
[This space left intentionally blank.]

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:46 pm

Thanks. I kind of thought I'd have to stop the siege.

Annoying.

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Freyland » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:52 pm

To add to what Blackhawk said, using your cheap units to fight first will fatigue the enemy. Fatigued enemies have an armor penalty, among other things.

Goo, I know you like videos. Under the "Guide" section for the game on Steam, "PartyElite" has a fantastic, large set of 5-10 minute videos that cover everything you could want to know about game mechanics, or at least battle mechanics.
I don't remember where I read this, Cort, maybe it was in the last patch notes, but they said the UAZ really handles the best when... the wheels are actually touching the ground.
--RedF1ve

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GreenGoo
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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:56 pm

I've watched the series. Thanks for the suggestion though.

The armour reduction from fatigue I didn't know. That's huge.

I understand the combat to a middling skill level. The wall, choke points, armour and unroutability of the dwarfs are the major stumbling blocks for VC digging dwarfs out of their holes. They become significantly easier in an open field.

Actually the wall isn't a big deal, but it contributes to the choke point issue.
Last edited by GreenGoo on Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Blackhawk » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:02 pm

Then let me recommend this one.
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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:03 pm

Thanks, I'll check it out. I have seen other videos by that author.

Edit: Ok, I watched a bunch of those videos. Like most guides I've found while looking for details on the game, it covers the basics of rock/paper/scissors tactics, which are something I'm familiar with. I'm no expert on Total War by any means, but archers/infantry/cavalry/anti-cavalry is a theme that runs through most games of this nature as well as human history. It's hard to play a tactical combat game without picking this stuff up over time and I've had a lot more time on this earth than most kids these days.

I'd say I'm so locked into the basics that I have no imagination in how to create openings and exploit those openings, which is kind of sad but it is what it is. Luckily the AI is pretty basic as well so we're a good match. ;) My main weakness in a campaign battle is that I don't like sacrificing units, which causes me to make some bad decisions in attempting to save them at times. And yes, this even applies to zombies (although to a lesser extent). :?

I found a good guide that gave me what to do for the first 10-15 turns as the VC which was very helpful in getting my learning curve inertia moving forward. I've now taken control of 4 provinces, have corruption creeping, heroes heroing, missions being missioned, rebels being farmed for experience, etc, etc. I'm past that initial hurdle that was keeping me from enjoying myself and was causing me to look for something else to play.

I'm having a good time, which is great. You would think that would be the case any time you play a game, but that's not always the case for me, and if the forum is any indication, it's not always the case for others as well.

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:54 pm

Because it felt like I'm claiming to know everything, I feel the need to point out that I have no intention of playing multiplayer, so micro is not a factor. I will often play entire battles switching between paused and slow speeds. I play it like it's turn based. I also know that the VC have no ranged or artillery units, so ranged fire (both direct and indirect) are not applicable to my current game. The VC are a pretty straightforward melee grinding army at least up to mid-tier, with monsters filling in specialty roles. That their leader is nearly indestructible in combat and that undead tend to have better "morale" than most armies they face also helps.

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:09 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:38 pm
Also, I can't for the life of me get my Necromancer with building income increasing skills to actually increase income. Anything you suggest I've already tried. Tell me anyway, as I'm clearly missing something. I've started a text file to track what I've tried and the income changes (so far there haven't been any).
Ok, if I save and reload the UI updates with new/different numbers. I'm going to assume that the UI is broken somehow and isn't refreshing correctly. The numbers go up when they should go up. I'm also going to assume that the calculations are correct behind the scenes somehow. Doing the math on the before/after numbers shows the increase to be off somehow. A supposed 15% increase is resulting in a difference of 10% between the before/after numbers. This is before taxes are applied. Well, it *looks* like it should be, as the tax line item is below the line items for the individual settlements.

Whatever, it's completely broken from my perspective but a hero with a "increase building income" appears to actually be increasing income, and that's good enough for me at this point.

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:01 pm

Holy attrition batman.

Took a 20 stack army into combat with walled dwarfs. I had 7 units of skellies or lower, then 3 Vargheists/1 bats, Mannfred (a beast) and another vampire hero (no hunger at that point), 2+2 units of grave guards (2 great weapons, 2 normal), a Varghul, a crypt horrors and lastly...something. Oh right, cairn wraiths (as an experiment. I wanted to see how all the units did against dwarfs).

I fully expected to have to reload, and took it as a chance to see how the 2 armies matched up. Well while I was sieging, another full army sprung up (does siege impact the ability to hire lords and/or recruit? Seems like it should) in a single turn, and when I attacked the battle comparison strength bar was fully red. I.e. my armies forces didn't even show up on the comparison. I was a little outnumbered. They had grudge throwers, a cannon, thunderers, quarellers (some with great weapons), long beards (some with great weapons), basic dwarf warriors (some with great weapons), miners galore, just a very intimidating army of units, most of which weren't basic. Or so it felt. Going up against a new foe is intimidating until you get to see how things play out.

The beginning of the battle was just awful. Their leadership never moved (to be expected) and they were dying at an alarmingly slow rate. As I ground my way into oblivion, eventually something changed. Units started wavering. A quarreller routed. My own units were wavering/crumbling, but I had more of them then the enemy did. I ended up killing around 50-60% of them before winning the day. A routing dwarf is hard to finish off without cavalry. Knowing the fight at the gate and on the walls was going to be a slog, I didn't bring any.

In the end I lost 8 full units I think. Surprisingly, 1 of the 2 units of zombies survived. They were slow and late to the party, so I think they weren't targeted much. Amongst those lost were the bats, the Crypt Horrors, the vampire hero (she's back with 1 hp after the fight though. Weird. Good), zombies, 3 units of skeleton warriors and 1 unit of skeleton spearmen. The bats got stuck in one time too many and I couldn't get them out no matter what I did. Fliers are weird. They need room/a runway to get up into the air again. If they are surrounded, they never get off the ground. Makes sense I guess. Annoying. Particularly annoying when 3/4 of the unit is aloft, but that last 1/4 can't get off the ground. The unit will resist moving (it can be forced through multiple orders it seems) until that last 1/4 gets airborne, which it never does. The skeletons all served their purpose and did great, so while eventually crumbling into nothingness, they managed to seriously fatigue enemy units first. The Vampire hero disappeared near the end when everything was wavering. I just didn't have enough magic points to keep her alive. I didn't even notice she was gone. The Crypt Horrors did poorly right from the start. I wasn't babysitting them though so maybe I let them get surrounded without support. Not sure. Certainly not nearly as tough as the 2 vampires (both mannfred and hero are built for melee) or Varghul, none of which required babysitting but were in the same situation/area of the battlefield.

I had read that counterintuitively the basic Grave Guard is a better choice than the great weapon guards against the dwarfs, and with only 1 battle under my belt, I agree. The basic guard just held the line forEVER and seemed to attrite slower than anything the dwarfs had, including longbeards (the dwarf equivalent to grave guards, I guess?). Since all 4 Grave Guard units survived, it's impossible to tell how effective the more defensive basic guards would have been without the armor piercing great weapons to support them, but I think I'll try dropping the great weapons next time. It'll be cheaper and I can re-evaluate. The Cairn Wraiths seemed to be the least effective between the 3 units. Their unit died faster (unit size is also just 1/2 of the grave guards) and accrued less experience. I assume that means less kills (I don't recall what their post battle numbers were). They are almost 1/3 more expensive than basic grave guard (but the same as great weapon guards) to maintain, so they seem a poor choice for a grindfest. Their extra speed gives them some tactical options in an open field battle though.

In the end I kept the game instead of reloading. I didn't expect to win, and when I saw what I had lost (mostly skeletons, a zombie and a green bat) I decided to save it. I accepted the hero dying although like I said, she's back, and the Crypt Horrors were only a single chevron in experience anyway.

After the battle I was super happy to find that I can't occupy dwarf holds. Surprise! I also couldn't raze it after sacking it on the same turn with the same army. A quick search of the internet shows that outside of vampire or human settlements, I can't occupy anything else. So no dwarf holds, no orcs, no whatever else exists that isn't a vampire or vampire food. I did find out I can raze next turn though, or this turn with a different army. The settlement showed as owned by me though, so hopefully that means I won't have another full garrison to deal with next turn?

If taking every dwarf hold is going to be like that, good lord. According to the internet, every dwarf hold is going to be like that for the VC. Time to start looking West instead of South (or East). In my defense these dwarfs declared war first for no reason (except maybe I was eating their human friends. Also, corruption).

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:27 pm

The dwarfs are consolidating. They currently have 15 settlements and are ranked #4 in strength. There are 4 other dwarf factions with 13 more settlements to them. 1 of those I'll be at war shortly, as their opinion of me is plummeting due to corruption and earlier actions against another dwarf faction.

I'm ranked #3 with 2.5 armies, most of which are tier 1 or 2 but I do have enough higher tier to make a full army if I wanted to do so. No blood knights, terrorgeists or chariots yet, but if I wanted them I could have them within a few turns. I have 5 full provinces (both sylvanias, Stirland, Averland and the Eastern Border Princes) giving me 12 settlements and full control of those provinces. I'm playing on normal. My plan was to come down south and grab some more land as well as start hitting beastmen or anything else that drops corruption that isn't vampiric.

What should I do about the dwarfs? Opinions? Or should I do anything about them? Should I keep working on the border princes or head towards the Empire? I'm working on diplo with wissenland because they don't like the empire, they wanted an NA before it was cool, and I should at least try a little diplo in my first (well, second) game. Almost have them in the positive by giving them 600-900 gold each turn. Weird that I can pick exact payment amount if bribing for a treaty, but it's just small, medium, large gifts of predetermined amounts. My income wavers between 5,000 and 6,000. Should I consolidate and dig in? I have Hemmler and Manfred and a lacky vampire lord. I have 2 of each hero type except Wight King, because I'm just not fighting that much. I guess I could buy one and deploy him, but the Kings seem best in combat. My 2 banshees are field agents.

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:25 pm

When a stranger arrives and offers you candy in exchange for a little corruption, DON'T take it.

Didn't fully understand the corruption system. I understand it better after that fiasco. *shudder*

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:37 pm

I pity the dwarf who decided to set up shop beside Drakenhof. Over 22 (not %, the # that the percentage is based) vampire corruption from osmosis alone. I might not be able to live there, but somehow the rebels I'm causing are vampiric anyway. Hopefully I'm not just giving the dwarfs free experience.

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Blackhawk » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:05 pm

This thread is actually giving me the urge to reinstall the first one again. The last couple of games I played were Mortal Empires, so it would be fun to try the regular campaign some more.

Goo - vague spoilerish tip, if you haven't heard it already. When you about Chaos being on the move, build up your armies and be ready. More than one campaign has been brought down by the event.
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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:49 pm

Blackhawk wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:05 pm
This thread is actually giving me the urge to reinstall the first one again. The last couple of games I played were Mortal Empires, so it would be fun to try the regular campaign some more.

Goo - vague spoilerish tip, if you haven't heard it already. When you about Chaos being on the move, build up your armies and be ready. More than one campaign has been brought down by the event.
Yes, every time I went looking for basic vampire management help most of the conversations were about chaos romping around. I'm fielding only 3 armies right now and the bulk is still zombies/skellies/spear skellies but I'm rolling out a chariot and a couple of blood knights, so I have the production if/when needed. I really have no idea what to expect, but that's fine. While the bulk of my armies are low level units, I have plenty of mid-tiers as well. I have 6-7 full provinces and about 6-7000 income. Border Princes are now food. A little guy down here is pissing me off, so he's next. Using transports for the first time. After that I'll probably eat the Empire assuming the dwarfs haven't declared by then.

When does Chaos usually make an appearance? Just give me an idea, I don't need/want details. If I get wiped out I'm eager to try a new game. Maybe greenskins. I am not a fan of humans in games like this. They just seem kinda boring, even though their armies/units look like fun.

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Freyland » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:35 pm

Turn 100, on average. It's also dependent on the strength of the empire faction but that *might* be from the overhaul mod I used.
I really enjoy the Empire, it's one of my favorite factions.
I don't remember where I read this, Cort, maybe it was in the last patch notes, but they said the UAZ really handles the best when... the wheels are actually touching the ground.
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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:39 pm

Freyland wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:35 pm
Turn 100, on average. It's also dependent on the strength of the empire faction but that *might* be from the overhaul mod I used.
I really enjoy the Empire, it's one of my favorite factions.
I'm around turn 75-80, so it should be soon. There is a faction I can't see yet that is ranked #1 in strength. I've been thinking it's Chaos but since is my first game I don't actually know.

Beastmen are giving me a run for my money in combat, and that's against mostly basic infantry. They seem to be tearing apart my zombies (but so. many. hp.) skeletons :( and spearskellies :doh: so that just leaves my specialty units to deal with the sheer numbers of beastmen plus their minotaurs and cygor and such. Even Krell + Wight King struggle against their commander, although it doesn't help he's embeded in a group of elite axe infantry. I've been leaving Mannfred out of fights so Hemmler can get some experience.

Like 90% of beastmen infantry are spearmen, so I need to turn them before charging with cavalry, which is no easy trick given just how many spearmen are watching each others' backs. I could build an army to defeat them but right now I'm just going with combined arms/generalist armies. The army I took against them had only a single bat unit for scouting. Normally I love my Vargheists for flank-disruption.

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:00 pm

Taking a human city behind a wall with 3 zombies, 2 skelliespears, 2 grave guards, 2 grave guards with big swords, 2 Varghuls (ok, these guys are tanks), 1 cairn wraiths (These guys are weird. Their mobility is great though), 4 Vargheists, a Wight King, a Vampire on a horse, and Mannfred (on foot) is a bit challenging. Making it more challenging was the 5 units of artillery in the city center that I couldn't touch because it was completely surrounded by handgunners, pistoleers and spears. I lost 50% of my Vargheists even attempting to disrupt them. With 2 full armies of 20 stacks each, it was an absolute grindfest. Artillery was constantly raining down on any unit that wasn't stuck in, if even for a moment. Game said I had something like 1200 units (The vargheists are only 12 per squad and the Varghul is a single unit) going in, and only 200 when it was over. Since it was the faction's last settlement, the enemy's routing units were killed when the battle ended, which provided a nice 4500 battlefield grave to raise dead from in the future. A legit battlefield too, not smashing 2 armies full of zombies together in the hopes of making a big field for later recruitment. This was a real siege and a real battle to the death for the faction.

I actually hit the esc key at one point, demoralized enough to quit and reload to siege them out or least wait until a reinforcement army could show up. I changed my mind and decided to finish it to see how it turned out. I didn't see the second army when I laid siege, but I did see it when I attacked anyway.

Amazingly, all I lost were the 3 zombies and 1 of the 2 spearmen. At one point a Vargheist was down to a single unit and the Great Weapon Grave Guards were down to 7 (from 120?) at another point. I wish I had screenshot the battle summary screen so I could check out the kill counts on a per unit basis.

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:12 pm

So Chaos made an appearance on turn 80. Not sure if it's always turn 80 or randomly +/- turn 80.

The problem is that the dwarfs just confederated another of their brethren. We are about equal in size, and while I'm #1 in strength (Normal difficulty) they are #2. They have 18 settlements and I have 16, but they have 2 more dwarf factions with 12 more settlements between them. It's only a matter of time before it's us or them. I'd like to do it before they grab any more dwarfs, but I realize going to war with them probably means going to war with the other dwarf factions, confederated or not.

Meanwhile, Chaos is no where to be seen (up north I guess) but gathering steam. They've moved from #6 to #5 in strength. I saw a nearby Chaos hero and killed it in human territory, so I received a small boost in opinion for that.

I'm not at war with anyone, have 3 full armies (trying to find a decent new leader so I can build a 4th) and nothing to build in any of my settlements. I feel like I'm spinning my wheels while Chaos and Dwarfs continue to grow.

What should I do? Without an unknown but frequently warned about Chaos threat, I would just beeline for the dwarfs. Instead I fear being locked in a death battle with the dwarfs when the Chaos arrive in force.

Now what?

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Freyland » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:29 pm

You are correct that fighting the dwarves would be such a slow process that you likely would find yourself on a two-front war. I have no idea if in Vanilla WH if Chaos bee-lines for the player or not.

Do the dwarves hate you? If they do, temper the following suggestions with the need to ensure defending armies/finances remain available to you.

1) Sit around, donate gifts of money to the largest ork faction. Build them up so they start threatening the dwarves, whether as a distraction or to indirectly whittle them down whilst you are busy elsewhere.

2) Bribe humans to get passage (or just trespass with a diplo hit) and charge right into Chaos whilst its still up North and not threatening your territories. You don't have to be allies with any of the human factions to still surround chaos armies with enemies.

3) Do nothing militarily and focus on completing your Quest missions, if not already done, and use your agents to screw with the Agents and Armies of Chaos (or even the dwarves, if you wish).
I don't remember where I read this, Cort, maybe it was in the last patch notes, but they said the UAZ really handles the best when... the wheels are actually touching the ground.
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NickAragua
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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by NickAragua » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:06 pm

Every time the Dwarves confederate, their public order takes a nasty hit. So it'll take them a while to completely unite, and there's a faction in the western mountains that won't ever confederate with the eastern guys. If I was the undead, I would not bother with the dwarves. You can't take their cities, and they can't take yours. If you go into their territory, you take attrition. If they go into your territory, they take attrition. It's just not worth it.

As far as Chaos goes, they spawn really far up north, so what you want to do is let them plow through Kislev and all that other human crap to soften themselves up. It's been a while, but from what I recall, you have to kill Achaon the Everchosen three times, and then the Chaos armies stop spawning in. The wasteland he leaves behind can be reclaimed for the glory of the Vampire Counts once you defeat him.

At that point, you should have the power to crush the remaining human weaklings and complete whatever campaign objectives you have set out for yourself.

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Blackhawk » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:21 pm

Freyland wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:29 pm
I have no idea if in Vanilla WH if Chaos bee-lines for the player or not.
I don't recall, but that's one of the worst parts of WHII. No matter your rank, no matter who their enemies are, if you're the player you're going to be seeing five or six stacks of Chaos showing up right next to you once the invasion begins. And if you don't have something prepared? Good luck. Last time I played the Mortal Empires campaign as Dark Elves they did it when I was in the midst of conquering a nation that had few armored troops, so I didn't have any anti-armor troops in either of my forward armies when the two were suddenly facing a six-stack army of heavily armored Chaos troops they couldn't even touch. They razed half of my empire before I could even respond. I believe that was when I prematurely ended that campaign and went looking for a mod.
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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:13 pm

Good advice. Remember I'm playing on normal so keep that in mind when reading my comments.

Here's what I've done.

1) I have 2 Banshees up north. I'm not sure what Chaos looks like but I have not seen *anything* that looks like a "special" faction. There are some northmen and whatnot that seem sorta chaos-y, but that's not them. There are some settlements in Mountains of Hel that seem like it might be Chaos. The problem is I really haven't seen any armies worth worrying about. If that's them they haven't made any progress south yet. So I'm scouting north, but don't see anything.

2) I've started bribing 3 factions. Wood Elves (because they seem to be alone in the world, like me), Wissenburg (because they reached out first. I actually have trade with them. Huzzah!) and Estalia (because I conquered south then west and Tilea is so isolated I don't want Estalia to get any ideas. They are getting ideas).

3) Instead of taking on the dwarfs directly, I've gone after one of the dwarf factions not confederated yet. They have the Black Mountains and the Vaults and then something farther south that I can't reach easily. I think there are 5 settlements in the Vaults/Black Mountains, and I've sacked and razed 3 of them with relative ease. The dwarfs faction did not get involved, so I'll seriously weaken a potential confederate target with little risk. I believe after I clear the Vaults/Black Mountains, they will have 3-4 settlements down south. I'll consider that a success.

The dwarfs faction aren't happy with me probably from creeping corruption (plus they're dwarfs) but the corruption is keeping them at bay and keeping them busy with rebels. I had to actually kill a vampire rebel army because it wouldn't let me past to get at the settlement I was after. They were surprisingly tough. I took a lot of damage even though I kicked the crap out of them. I can raid every province in contact with my provinces due to spreading corruption without attrition. So I can go to war with anything nearby without attrition issue.

If no Chaos shows up by the time I take out this dwarf faction I'm going to start taking more human provinces. I have been leaving the northern ones alone to eat the initial Chaos insurgence, but if things take too long I'm going to push north and conquer as I go. I only have 3 stacks but they are pretty tough, and I'll have a 4th the moment I like an available lord. Right now they all suck. Plus, I want Sigmar's throne. Apparently.

I have finished Mannfred's quests. Himmler is 1 level short before his start showing up. The normal quests are kind of garbage right now. One is to go to war with Wissenburg (not happening. Trade!) and the other is recruit cavalry, of which I have too much already because an earlier event made recruits super cheap and high ranking so I splurged.

Dwarfs are the only threat to me militarily right now, which is why I'm bothering with them at all. If they were wiped out, I would be undisputed ruler of the world, at least province/settlement/army strength-wise. I don't really know what winning means in this game. The short/long victory conditions I guess?

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:26 pm

All the DLC seems to be on sale, although not in the typical price range I like. Opinions? Should I just move on to #2? I'm enjoying the game and am already excited about starting a new one, but I don't want to spend 40 bucks on DLC for a game that I might not play extensively, particularly when my son owns #2 and I can just borrow it if I'm so inclined.

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Max Peck » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:19 pm

I would just buy TW2 while it's on sale. It has a free DLC (Mortal Empires) that allows you to use all of your unlocked TW1 and TW2 factions/lords in a campaign spanning the maps of both games.
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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:25 pm

Ok.

I have nothing unlocked.

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Blackhawk » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:34 pm

And Total War DLC doesn't go on deep sale very often. Possibly ever. And yet there are six free DLC for it, including faction leaders and a full faction. Blood for the Blood God sucks in principle, but makes a visual difference.
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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Max Peck » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:37 pm

The non-DLC TW1 lords/factions are included. Essentially, any faction or lord that you can play in TW1 can also be played in Mortal Empires.
Time and tide melt the snowman.

There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by NickAragua » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:41 pm

Blackhawk wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:34 pm
And Total War DLC doesn't go on deep sale very often. Possibly ever. And yet there are six free DLC for it, including faction leaders and a full faction. Blood for the Blood God sucks in principle, but makes a visual difference.
Yeah, a pretty major one, too. Blood stains on the battlefield aside, the amount of animations added is pretty significant.

I'm tempted to splurge and grab both II and the wood elves.

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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Blackhawk » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:24 pm

And I believe that buying the WH1 version gives you the WH2 version for free. I believe. :think:
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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by Max Peck » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:40 pm

Blackhawk wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:24 pm
And I believe that buying the WH1 version gives you the WH2 version for free. I believe. :think:
That is correct.
PLEASE NOTE: This Effects Pack is free for players who have purchased Blood for the Blood God for the original Total War: WARHAMMER.

It has been added to their Steam library and will be downloaded automatically for WARHAMMER II.
Time and tide melt the snowman.

There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
-- The Doctor

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GreenGoo
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Re: Total War: Warhammer

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:50 am

Thanks for the input guys.

Looks like the current price is the cheapest TW:WHII has ever been.

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