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[Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

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Holman
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Holman » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:46 pm

GreenGoo wrote: The hayday was when my autistic son starting asking for games for game consoles we don't have and which are no longer being manufactured and several decades older than he is. As a gaming father I *want* to make my kids happy and give them the games they want. But when one of your stipulations is that the games have to be from this century, you know things have gone off the rails.

Did I mention I hate the internet? Does anyone remember the Sears Christmas catalogue that you used to look through before Christmas to make your Santa list from? Well the internet is like that. Except it's also a time machine, and will show my kids every toy or video game ever made, ever. From any place on earth. And any time on earth. Pre-war toys from the country formerly known as Siam? Here they are. And THAT'S what they use to make their Santa lists.

And that's why I hate the internet.
On a more limited scale, my kids have discovered the joys of browsing Steam. It turns out that just about every game looks awesome on its store page.

I'm still in the stage of patiently explaining why this one or that one isn't as good as another they already have.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:50 pm

Holman wrote: On a more limited scale, my kids have discovered the joys of browsing Steam. It turns out that just about every game looks awesome on its store page.

I'm still in the stage of patiently explaining why this one or that one isn't as good as another they already have.
Image that + every dipshit with a webcam orgasming over each game. Video game video blogs are like full time commercials.

I wish I had your patience.

And on that note, I've downloaded and "installed" dwarf fortress. Now am I feeling generous enough to install a tileset, or am I truly a full blown sadist?

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Holman » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:03 pm

FWIW, you might wait. The newest release has a frustrating crash bug in world generation, and a new one will probably be out this weekend.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:58 pm

Holman wrote:FWIW, you might wait. The newest release has a frustrating crash bug in world generation, and a new one will probably be out this weekend.
Pretty sure the latest version fixed it. Or maybe it was announced but not released. I'll double check.

Thanks.

edit: You're right, he hasn't released the fix yet.

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Madmarcus » Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:02 am

GreenGoo wrote: The hayday was when my autistic son starting asking for games for game consoles we don't have and which are no longer being manufactured and several decades older than he is. As a gaming father I *want* to make my kids happy and give them the games they want. But when one of your stipulations is that the games have to be from this century, you know things have gone off the rails.
A 4-5 years ago my oldest son (in high school at the time) wanted a Nintendo 64. I thought it was a little odd but Ebay worked and it was appreciated as a gift. This same son had seen me playing DF a few years before that (he was in middle school on thus a couple of years older than your son is now) and wanted to play. I was happy to get him set up with it. I did have an advantage because he had reached the stage where I could allow him to download a tileset and trust him to follow the directions well enough to install it. On the other hand he played for a while in the same ASCII mode I did. I've never run a DF game for longer than 8-10 years but I've had tons of fun with it going back to the 2D version. Why would I want to restrict my kids from entering such a crazy world of imagination.

On the other hand I'm completely with you on feelings about Steam. Luckily my kids seem to have the same attitude that I had with the Sears catalog; you can mark tons of things but you know you are only going to get one or two.

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Smoove_B » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:40 pm

Just saw that this game was released 10 years ago, today. In honor of the decade of Fortressing, PC Gamer (remember when they were an actual print magazine?) published a list of the most ridiculous patch notes:
2006

Added cat butchery
Fixed problem with undead passing out from strangling
Made the corpses of small animals that die out of water stop teleporting
Made dwarves care if you melt down their masterpieces
Stopped soldiers from going to parties
Added mouths
Added an aperture flag that stops mouths from being gouged out
I feel like I missed out on this game.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by paulbaxter » Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:44 am

I played for a few hours way back when, which was hardly enough to say I had even tried it. But that's some fine reading there! Thanks for posting it.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by LordMortis » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:33 pm

10 year? Sepiche was just giving me the low down on custom tile sets just yesterday, I swear to Pete. Pancake, I'm old.

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Mr Bismarck » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:51 pm

10 years and if I could only play one game for the rest of time, it'd still be this one.

I'm fairly sure I could fill a solid 90 minute lecture on "stuff that happened to/because of me in DF."
Imagine if I hadn't been drunk.

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Holman » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:02 pm

Mr Bismarck wrote:10 years and if I could only play one game for the rest of time, it'd still be this one.

I'm fairly sure I could fill a solid 90 minute lecture on "stuff that happened to/because of me in DF."
I visit the DF forum just to read the threads on what has happened in people's fortresses.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Suitably Ironic Moniker » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:51 pm

Smoove_B wrote:Just saw that this game was released 10 years ago, today. In honor of the decade of Fortressing, PC Gamer (remember when they were an actual print magazine?) published a list of the most ridiculous patch notes:
2006

Added cat butchery
Fixed problem with undead passing out from strangling
Made the corpses of small animals that die out of water stop teleporting
Made dwarves care if you melt down their masterpieces
Stopped soldiers from going to parties
Added mouths
Added an aperture flag that stops mouths from being gouged out
I feel like I missed out on this game.
ot - PC Gamer is still a print magazine, at least in the US. /ot.

This game has always tempted me, but the learning curve scares me off.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by LordMortis » Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:51 pm

Suitably Ironic Moniker wrote:This game has always tempted me, but the learning curve scares me off.
Short of learning to manipulate the different axiseseses, the learning curve is actually where the fun is at. Every time you learn something you feel like you've accomplished a goal. Once you feel like the learning has really slowed down the game loses some of its luster.

Oh, and learning to use the mods is a bit of a pain and they were really necessary when I played. I had Sepiche. :wub: He taught me how to use custom tile sets and to install the dwarf manager, whatever it's called. And they were really key to my enjoyment.

Failing in a glorious fashion after hours of play and then applying your lessons to the next fortress is kinda what the game is about.

Oh, and find a tutorial for the interface... The biggest frustration for me at the beginning if I can remember a decade ago was learning to navigate the Interface...

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/ ... tress_mode

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/v0.34:Controls

It looks a bit different since I played last.

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Holman » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:45 pm

Yeah, the interface is clumsy, but it becomes manageable.

The glory of the game is that all of the incredibly intricate relationships make sense in the world they create. Yes, you'll eventually be surprised by the fact that your dwarves are miserable because their clothes are ragged and tattered, and you'll be pissed to realize that this actually hinders you in your goals. But a few quick looks will show you that of course their clothes are falling apart: you've had them working for three or four years without ever importing or producing new socks, pants, and tunics, and the game has had screens telling you the whole time about the gradual deterioration of the clothing. With a little attention and effort you could easily have done something about it.

Then, just as you're setting up your first weaver's loom and clothier's shop to remedy the situation, a full-on goblin invasion will arrive and you'll realize that you never set up the levers to close the drawbridge and the gates, and also you used up all of your arrows hunting deer and frogs for meat without telling anyone to carve new arrows from the bones of last year's dead camels.

Eventually, other games will start to seem unrealistic because the units don't have individualized opinions about the gods, each other, music, and their favorite alcohol, and because they don't occasionally go insane and murder the town doctor.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:47 pm

It truly is a fun game to manage, especially after an adult beverage or three.

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by TheMix » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:17 pm

Holman wrote: and because they don't occasionally go insane and murder the town doctor everyone.
Fixed that for you. :D

I chased down the saga of Boatmurdered the other night and read some of it to my wife. I don't think she was very impressed. I also jumped to the end before things even started getting rough to read about the collapse.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:44 am

New version
This is the artifact release, featuring the ability to send your dwarves off to cause trouble in the world, improved kobold sites, cover identities, artifact questers, and a bit of artifact diplomacy.

In fort mode, the 'c' screen which used to list civilizations still does that as a suboption, but its main purpose now is to show the world map and allow you to interact with it. You can either raid a neighbor generally, or send off squads to recover specific artifacts or rescue particular people (in which case, the squads will still bring back other artifacts and prisoners, but focus on the goal.) A squad questing after an artifact will seek out information if the first site doesn't work out, and this might take several months, so be prepared. Squads can also be captured during raids, though typically someone will return to tell the tale. When squads return, a report will become available
Laundry list:
Spoiler:
New stuff
  • Ability to send out squads to raid sites, rescuing prisoners and recovering artifacts
  • Display cases and pedestals, museum zones, both in forts and other sites
  • Can view the world map w/ rumors from fort mode
  • Artifacts created during worldgen: dwarf moods, named heroic objects, holy relics, heirlooms
  • New artifact events in play and worldgen: questers seek artifacts and ask for or steal them, invaders demand artifacts
  • New historical events associated to the creation of artifacts (used in fort and worldgen)
  • Agents used by civilizations to gather information, can assume cover identities
  • Improved kobold site maps
  • Goblin site denizens demand an identity instead of immediately attacking every stranger
  • More modding control over pets and other animals
  • Adventurer can assume a cover identity at will
  • Adventurer can name their possessions
  • New adventurer reputations related to artifacts
  • New religious activity: monks, pilgrims and prophets
  • Museums and other room types can be added to fort locations like taverns and libraries
  • Various additional data in the XML export
Major bug fixes
  • Fixed weapon trap crash vs. item breakage
  • Fixed bug preventing monster slayers from visiting those forts with monsters to slay
  • Made animated skulls, hair and other bits easier to pulp
  • Made idle and vermin-hunting dwarves come down from trees more successfully
  • Made thirst/hunger and being pushed out of the way less likely to terminate dances
Other bug fixes/tweaks
  • Alphabetized broad stock screen categories
  • Fixed problem with historical bodies not respecting wounds/processing
  • Fixed bug causing religions to worship too many gods, with duplicates
  • Made simple burrow beasts start in caves as possible
  • Fixed broken historical collection linkage with beast attacks during festivals
  • Fixed one instance of broken animal person greetings
  • Stopped natural animals from w.g. rampaging through sites owned by entities at peace with wildlife
  • Took age into account for w.g. fights vs. body size (e.g. proper dragon size)
  • Stopped people from being enough to satisfy a need to see great beasts
  • Made visitors less nervous about going to neutral locations

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Fitzy » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:54 am

I've never managed a secure enough fortress to handle what comes at me, I can't even imagine reaching the point where I have enough trained soldiers to send them out in search of stuff.

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Smoove_B » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:23 am

Coming to STEAM

When? Time is Subjective. :D
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Paingod » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:49 am

Well, there goes the neighborhood.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by jztemple2 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:17 pm

Paingod wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:49 am
Well, there goes the neighborhood.
Don't worry, the Steam reviews will force them to add an Easy Mode :D
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Holman » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:35 pm

Looks like the Steam version will come with a graphics overhaul easier on the eyes.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:18 pm

Hopefully the added mod support will make things easier there as well.

I can guarantee this is going to generate negative feedback. The reviews are going to be a combination of wtf is this, it's too complicated, and sell out.

But the free version is still free and hopefully it generates some money for the developer, who has been working hard on this for years.

My son loves it as a rogue-like and plays it constantly. He's intimidated by the fortress part but he's finally dipping his toe in.
Last edited by GreenGoo on Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Holman » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:41 pm

I've dabbled with the free version for more than a decade, and I'll buy the Steam game at any price they ask. They've earned it.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Paingod » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:22 am

Holman wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:41 pm
I've dabbled with the free version for more than a decade, and I'll buy the Steam game at any price they ask. They've earned it.
As someone who's played this once or twice but found the level of detail and control mind-blowingly complex, I agree. I'll be buying it at a non-sale price simply to support the progenitor of so many games I've loved. I'm currently chewing my way to 300 hours with RimWorld.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by LordMortis » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:07 am

Holman wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:41 pm
I've dabbled with the free version for more than a decade, and I'll buy the Steam game at any price they ask. They've earned it.
So much this. Even if I didn't enjoy it as much as I did, the likes of Tarn(?) deserve my money, if for nothing else, so others have some incentive to bring as much evolution to the video gaming industry as he has.

I've never given Bay12 a dime because it wasn't exceedingly easy to do so, but they deserve it and I will buy it at full price, so long as full price isn't $50. :oops:

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:10 am

The new graphics look like they will improve things dramatically.

Image

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Sepiche » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:34 am

It's almost hard to believe Tarn actually agreed to add graphics, AND add DF to Steam, AND add Steam mod support, but I think it's a very smart move.

Should bring them a lot more exposure and bring in a ton of money to continue development. Everyone knows the legend that is Dwarf Fortress, and this should get a lot of people that wouldn't otherwise seek it out to play it.

Now the only thing we have to worry about is Epic getting to him and making it an Epic Store exclusive. :P

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by LordMortis » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:36 am

I imagine just about any tile overlay would be fine for me. Mostly ASCII was just a bit too roguelike for me. I'd want the dwarf organizer mod. Can't remember the name. That was a huge improvement. I don't know if it was ever incorporated. I haven't touched the game in years. I think vampires had just become a thing and I fortunately never saw one. Dying may have been half the fun but not that way, I don't think... Or maybe it would have been. Dunno.

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Sepiche » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:43 am

Dwarf Therapist. Yeah, it's not impossible to play without it, but it certainly saves a lot of time over trying to assign things using the in game interface.

Vampires aren't too bad generally. They'll kill dwarves every once in a while, but if you figure out who the vampire is you can put them in your military where they make excellent soldiers.

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Holman » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:45 am

I'd imagine that Dwarf Therapist and other tools will be easily available through the Steam Workshop, so all of that just got easier too.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Smoove_B » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:44 pm

So, why exactly is it finally coming to STEAM?
If you want to know why Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam, its co-creator Tarn Adams has one answer: health insurance.

“Healthcare costs generally are pretty much the whole reason,” Adams told Kotaku over email. “We’ve been doing fine with crowdfunding, but we’re getting older now, and one health problem that lands us in the wrong deductible or co-pay situation would be the end of full-time work on the game.”

...

“To afford healthcare, we have to make money, and it has to be enough money,” he wrote. “Crowdfunding has been great. I’ve survived for 12 years on it. But ultimately it’s not survivable in the current environment.”
I did not see that coming.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:02 pm

Fascinating. Going to be difficult for diehard fans to take exception to that.

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Holman » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:36 am

Given how solidly they've proved their ability to create and support an astonishing game, I hope they go Full Steam and get what they've earned. I wouldn't complain at paid DLC and then a full-price "sequel" every few years.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Rumpy » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 pm

I hope it includes an in-game tutorial. The learning curve in this game is pretty steep and it's very easy to get lost and overwhelmed in even starting.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Baroquen » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:43 pm

Rumpy wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 pm
I hope it includes an in-game tutorial. The learning curve in this game is pretty steep and it's very easy to get lost and overwhelmed in even starting.
That is cool, but I bet it doesn't happen. I think I've used internet walk-throughs for the few attempts when I played. Even though I haven't sunk huge amounts of time into it, I think I'd buy it on Steam too. This may the classic example of buying to supporting the developers. And the graphics look nice. :)

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Rumpy » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:36 pm

Yeah, walk-throughs are one thing though. As useful as they may be, I think it can still be really confusing and overwhelming because the circumstances can be different. They could totally make it an option. Like, what if you could turn the tutorial on which would guide you into starting a base including where best to put it? It would ease it a bit being on Steam.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by GreenGoo » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:40 pm

I'll definitely be buying it.

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by killbot737 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:46 pm

I have found that Gnomoria is a good starter sim, for people who are afraid to set foot into the lava pit of Dwarf Fortress. It is equally bewildering up front, but it has graphics, and less "stuff" going on.

Someday I'll outdo the elephant massacre/uprising of Boatmurdered.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Baroquen » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:20 pm

Rumpy wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:36 pm
Yeah, walk-throughs are one thing though. As useful as they may be, I think it can still be really confusing and overwhelming because the circumstances can be different. They could totally make it an option. Like, what if you could turn the tutorial on which would guide you into starting a base including where best to put it? It would ease it a bit being on Steam.
Oh I agree that a tutorial would be helpful/awesome, but I just seems like ease of use doesn't seem to be at the top of the feature list for DF.

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Paingod » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:25 am

Hopefully he'll follow an Electronics Arts sales model. Layers -2 through +2 will be included with the base game. Each additional layer is unlocked for $2.99.
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