Italians Yelling At Each Other

[Kraken]

What I still can't wrap my head around is the pride some people take in not having given what is widely considered the greatest American movie of all time a chance. Just blows my mind.

+1. I step outside of my genre preferences all the time to see movies that are reputed to be exceptional. Just last night I watched The Fighter despite a strong dislike for boxing movies. (Despite a well-acted and realistic depiction of Lowell lowlifes, it was a typical boxing movie...5/8 tentacles.)

I've seen The Godfather and appreciate it for what it is, although I don't like mob movies and feel no urge to see it again.

Somewhat o.t., but please tell me you've at least seen Raging Bull.

Yes, and Rocky too.

[tgb]

Rocky is hardly in the same league, but that's a discussion for a different thread.

[ImLawBoy]

Goodfellas is a great film, though I don't feel particularly uplifted when it's over.

I don't think you're supposed to feel uplifted at the end of these movies.

Importance of family? What ruins it for me is that they have such a deep and structured code of honor, yet they're typically portrayed as being unrepentant misogynists. Everything from spousal infidelity to outright abuse. I can understand cutting up some guy up because he spoke to the police but when you stomp a pregnant stripper to death, I'm not really engaged in your story any more.

With the Godfather movies, I don't think they wanted you to empathize withe characters. These were some pretty horrible people with a few (not fully) redeeming qualities. You're supposed to dislike them when they do something particularly wicked.

With Goodfellas, on the other hand, I think the movie did want you to empathize/sympathize with Henry Hill. Since he's the narrator, it's hard to avoid that. He's also a scumbag, though, and this is why Goodfellas is a significant step below the (first two) Godfather movies for me. (Plus, Ray Liotta has always bugged me for some reason.) It's a very well made movie with some great performances, but I can't praise it like others do because I refuse to have any pity for Henry Hill.

[MindToyGames]

Goodfellas is a great film, though I don't feel particularly uplifted when it's over.

I don't think you're supposed to feel uplifted at the end of these movies.

Importance of family? What ruins it for me is that they have such a deep and structured code of honor, yet they're typically portrayed as being unrepentant misogynists. Everything from spousal infidelity to outright abuse. I can understand cutting up some guy up because he spoke to the police but when you stomp a pregnant stripper to death, I'm not really engaged in your story any more.

With the Godfather movies, I don't think they wanted you to empathize withe characters. These were some pretty horrible people with a few (not fully) redeeming qualities. You're supposed to dislike them when they do something particularly wicked.

That's why I liked Scarface really, despite the fact Pacino's character is a violent, greedy, nasty, emotionally damaged cokehead by the end, we feel a tiny bit of sympathy for him (or at least I did). Little is empathetic about Tony Montana, and that makes it more challenging to watch (and perform, I assume).

[Kraken]

Rocky is hardly in the same league, but that's a discussion for a different thread.

Yup, enough deraileur. My point was simply that I often watch movies in genres that I don't like if they have enough hype or critical acclaim, or if they appear to have qualities that raise them above the pack.

[Isgrimnur]

Gotti was a punk, and the other heads of the families hated him, not just because of the way he generated publicity (bad for business), but also because the hit on Paul Castellano wasn't authorized.

Note to Trent - Did I ever tell you about my father's connections to Henry Hill?

USA Today

New York City police on Thursday were investigating the bold, fatal shooting of alleged Gambino crime boss Francesco “Franky Boy” Cali outside his Staten Island home.

Officers responding to a 911 call Wednesday night found Cali, 53, who was shot multiple times, police said in a statement. Emergency medical team rushed him to Staten Island University Hospital North, where Cali was pronounced dead.
...
Federal prosecutors have described Cali as a top leader of New York’s notorious Gambino crime family. His murder marked the most notable killing of a Gambino boss since 1985, when Paul Castellano was shot dead in front of the Sparks Steak House in Manhattan. Cali lived less than a half-mile away from Castellano’s Staten Island mansion.
...
Cali was a native of Sicily, and his wife is the niece of Gambino capo John Gambino.
...
Iconic Gambino leader John Gotti died in federal prison in 2002. Gotti's brother, Gene, 71, was released from prison last year after serving almost 30 years for dealing heroin.

Another former leader of the group, Carmine John "The Snake" Persico Jr., died last week while serving a 139-year prison sentence. He was 85.

[LawBeefaroni]

Witnesses told the New York Post and other local media the gunman fled the scene in a blue pickup.

Would not want to be driving a blue pickup in NY/NJ right now.

[McNutt]

Witnesses told the New York Post and other local media the gunman fled the scene in a blue pickup.

Would not want to be driving a blue pickup in NY/NJ right now.

Looking all Italiany.

[Isgrimnur]

Has the Air Force changed from the old blue pickups that they used to drive?

[Rumpy]

So on the topic of the Godfather movies, I did finally see them about 3 years ago. I honestly felt they were not that great. Interesting, yes, but I felt I had seen better movies about the mob. And I have to say, Pacino was much better the older he got. Here though, and maybe it was the intention, he was blank and stony faced and I felt rather underwhelmed by it.

[Jaymann]

Ya, Pacino went from stone faced to dynamic to caricature.

[McNutt]

So on the topic of the Godfather movies, I did finally see them about 3 years ago. I honestly felt they were not that great. Interesting, yes, but I felt I had seen better movies about the mob.

<spit take> What? <takes another sip>

And I have to say, Pacino was much better the older he got. Here though, and maybe it was the intention, he was blank and stony faced and I felt rather underwhelmed by it.

<second spit take> What???

Let's break this down:
Better mob movies - I will give you a pass if you are talking about Goodfellas. This is the only mob movie that is anywhere near as good as The Godfather I & II. Which ones are you ranking above them?

Pacino getting better as he got older - Al Pacino (whom I love as an actor) played himself more often than not. With older Pacino I wasn't looking at some creative take on a character. Instead I was seeing Al Pacino giving the same performance in most of his movies. But in the Godfather, that's not Pacino. That's Michael Corleone and his transformation from likeable good guy to terrifying evil guy was slow and deliberate. It's one of the best characters and best performances I can think of. Pacino was at his best when he was young and came out of nowhere to blow everyone away with that performance.

[ImLawBoy]

Better mob movies - I will give you a pass if you are talking about Goodfellas. This is the only mob movie that is anywhere near as good as The Godfather I & II. Which ones are you ranking above them

[hepcat]

I gotta agree. Godfather I and II are fantastic (III was never made, I tell folks). And Pacino became a walking caricature of an actor as he got older. Give me Godfather and Dog Day Afternoon Pacino over anything else.

[McNutt]

Godfather III wasn't a bad movie, it was just an okay movie capping off what should have stopped at II. The ending of II was perfect and showed what had become of this man.

Two decades later we get Ricky Roma instead of someone who resembles Michael Corleone in any way. That was not the same character. Not at all.

[Rumpy]

Let's break this down:
Better mob movies - I will give you a pass if you are talking about Goodfellas. This is the only mob movie that is anywhere near as good as The Godfather I & II. Which ones are you ranking above them?

Yeah, Goodfellas is certainly one of them. I'll also add The Untouchables in there. There are a few others that are escaping me.

I'll grant that they were very well put together, but it almost caught me offguard at how languid they are in contrast to their subject material, and was rather disappointed at how little Brando was in it for all the fuss there is about it.

Pacino getting better as he got older - Al Pacino (whom I love as an actor) played himself more often than not. With older Pacino I wasn't looking at some creative take on a character. Instead I was seeing Al Pacino giving the same performance in most of his movies. But in the Godfather, that's not Pacino. That's Michael Corleone and his transformation from likeable good guy to terrifying evil guy was slow and deliberate. It's one of the best characters and best performances I can think of. Pacino was at his best when he was young and came out of nowhere to blow everyone away with that performance.

See, and this may be purely subjective, but I felt that he got more dynamic as he got older. That said, when he returned for the 3rd movie, I felt his performance there was more dynamic (from collected experience) than earlier on where to me he didn't look all that expressive. Then again, in a way, I feel time hasn't been too kind of these movies, and I fully respect that they were accomplishments for their time.

[McNutt]

I wouldn't say he was more expressive in Godfather III. He just wasn't subtle.

In The Godfather II there is a scene at his mother's funeral where Fredo (speaking of great performances) hugs Michael because he believes Michael has forgiven him. An expressionless Michael looks at Al Neri and his hitman understands what he is signaling. It's one of the most cold blooded scenes in movie history and Pacino does it without saying a damn word.

[Rumpy]

Yeah, admittedly that scene was very good. Perhaps even more striking now than it was when it was first released. And yeah, the 3rd movie on the whole was rather unnecessary and the tone between it and the first two was decidedly different. Felt like a third leg.

[LawBeefaroni]

The brazen killing was the first slaying in more than 30 years of a New York City crime boss.

While the motive for the killing remains unclear, preliminary information suggests it might not be related to organized crime, according to The New York Times. The report, however, noted that an official cautioned that determination, saying it was still early in the investigation.

...
Shea said there was “extensive video footage” recovered from the house where the shooting occurred.

According to The New York Times, at about 9:15 p.m. on Wednesday, Comello backed his pickup truck into Cali’s parked Cadillac Escalade, then walked up to the door of his home and rang the doorbell, showing himself on video cameras.

“We have an individual come up; there is an altercation with the vehicle in front. We still do not know whether that was a ploy or whether that was an accident,” Shea said.

Shortly after, Comello fired on Cali, hitting him 10 times.

Man, if he got killed in a parking-rage incident....

[Hipolito]

I just saw Green Book. Pretty high IYAEO quotient.

[xwraith]

Random comment:

I always saw the Godfather as a tragedy -- the man who could have left it all behind, but chose the life.

[A nonny mouse]

I gotta agree. Godfather I and II are fantastic (III was never made, I tell folks). And Pacino became a walking caricature of an actor as he got older. Give me Godfather and Dog Day Afternoon Pacino over anything else.

You forgot Serpico.

and agreed on all caracature fronts. A shame, really.

[hepcat]

Oh yeah, can't forget Serpico!

[Isgrimnur]

USA Today

New York City police on Thursday were investigating the bold, fatal shooting of alleged Gambino crime boss Francesco “Franky Boy” Cali outside his Staten Island home.

Vice

When Francesco “Frankie Boy” Cali, leader of the notorious Gambino crime family, was gunned down outside his home in Staten Island earlier this year, police assumed it was the work of a hitman.

But lawyers representing the alleged murderer, Anthony Comello, have a different explanation: the bizarre pro-Trump conspiracy known as “QAnon.”

Comello, 24, sought out Cali because he believed he was a member of the “Deep State,” according to his lawyers. He has pleaded not guilty to charges of second-degree murder and two counts of criminal possession of a weapon.
...
According to defense lawyers, Comello drove his pickup truck to Cali’s residence in Staten Island at around 9:15 p.m. on March 13. He hung around the area, and then backed his truck into Cali’s Cadillac, which was parked outside his home. Cali came outside, Comello introduced himself, and the two men shook hands. The two men inspected the damage on the vehicles, and then Comello informed him that he was there to make a citizen’s arrest, and had brought handcuffs with him, because he believed Cali was a member of the Deep State.
...
Comello had attempted three other citizen’s arrests in months prior. In February, he attempted a citizen’s arrest at New York Mayor Bill de Blasio’s Gracie Mansion in Brooklyn, but was rebuffed by his security detail. He also attempted to make citizen’s arrests of California Congress members Maxine Waters and Adam Schiff, both Democrats.

[Daehawk]

My wife even last year was still quoting the movie...."Leave the gun, take the cannoli" and also doing the "Monday, Tuesday..so on" in the accent. She got a kick years ago when I was playing The Godfather game and the leave the gun take the cannoli mission came up and I played it for her lol. She was a big fan. I dont think I ever watched them.

[Isgrimnur]

NY TImes

In the nine months since that conversation, Mr. Comello, 25, has claimed to his lawyer that he killed Francesco Cali because the mob boss was part of “the deep state,” a member of a liberal cabal working to undermine President Trump.

At one court appearance, Mr. Comello scrawled on his hand a symbol and phrases associated with the far-right conspiracy theory, “QAnon.”

Now, Mr. Comello’s paranoia is being litigated in a Staten Island court, where he is charged with the murder of Mr. Cali, known as Franky Boy. His lawyer has taken the first steps in a legal battle that hinges on a question made for the internet age: At what point does belief in a far-right conspiracy theory make you legally insane?