Amazon has whacked our affiliate account. Hosting Donations/Commitments $2063 of $1920 (Sept 13/18). In Hand $1466 (Lump sum payments minus paypal graft). Paypal Donation Link Here

Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 20831
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Holman » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:02 pm

Kraken wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:49 am
Telling voters that you're going to take away their insurance is a risky proposition. Most who have employer-subsidized insurance like their plans. If you're going to nuke that, you have to be able to tell them what will replace it and how much it will cost. Democrats were treading on shaky ground until Trump said "I'm going to take away your insurance and replace it with something great. I have no idea what. Hey Congress, I command you to write something great now, mkay?"

The dilemma for Republicans is that Obamacare WAS their best plan. I don't think it's possible to design a better market-based model, given that the profit motive drives most of our system's excessive cost. If forced to invent another system based on private insurance, it's likely to look a lot like the ACA.
Expect them to do to the ACA what they did (but haven't yet, actually) to NAFTA: slight tweak + new name = MAGAcare!
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 60160
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:17 pm

WaPo
A federal judge in Washington threw a significant roadblock into the Trump administration’s efforts to compel poor people on Medicaid to work in exchange for health benefits, rejecting a Kentucky program for a second time while saying that rules in effect in Arkansas “cannot stand.”

The twinned opinions Wednesday afternoon, in a pair of states that have been national leaders in the move toward Medicaid work requirements, cast doubt on the Trump administration’s approvals of efforts to re-envision the public insurance program. The opinions undo the permissions that the U.S. Health and Human Services Department gave those two states, telling the agency it must reconsider the applications with an eye on the effect on poor people who depend on the coverage.

Judge James E. Boasberg of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia concluded that in letting Kentucky go forward with its requirements, HHS had been “arbitrary and capricious” — the same criticism he leveled once before. He wrote that he “cannot concur” that Medicaid law leaves the HHS secretary “so unconstrained, nor that the states are so armed to refashion the program Congress designed in any way they choose.”

The 48-page Kentucky opinion is the more emphatic of the two rulings. The judge walks through the reasons he remains unpersuaded by even a second set of arguments by the administration as to why the program should be allowed to go forward.

But the 35-page Arkansas decision has more immediate impact. It strips away the federal basis on which that state added work requirements last June that apply to more than 115,000 poor and working-class Arkansans under a part of Medicaid, known as Arkansas Works, that was expanded under the Affordable Care Act. So far, about 18,000 people have lost coverage for failing to meet the rules or failing to report to the state that they complied.
Silver - 1k

User avatar
gbasden
Posts: 5721
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:57 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by gbasden » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:19 am

Holman wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:02 pm
Kraken wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:49 am
Telling voters that you're going to take away their insurance is a risky proposition. Most who have employer-subsidized insurance like their plans. If you're going to nuke that, you have to be able to tell them what will replace it and how much it will cost. Democrats were treading on shaky ground until Trump said "I'm going to take away your insurance and replace it with something great. I have no idea what. Hey Congress, I command you to write something great now, mkay?"

The dilemma for Republicans is that Obamacare WAS their best plan. I don't think it's possible to design a better market-based model, given that the profit motive drives most of our system's excessive cost. If forced to invent another system based on private insurance, it's likely to look a lot like the ACA.
Expect them to do to the ACA what they did (but haven't yet, actually) to NAFTA: slight tweak + new name = MAGAcare!
I would swallow my pride and accept that in a heartbeat if it meant both parties cooperating to make the ACA actually work. And not try to actively sabotage it.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 60160
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:43 am

WaPo
President Trump signaled Monday night that he will not press for a vote on a bill to replace the Affordable Care Act until after next year’s elections, apparently heeding warnings from fellow Republicans about the perils of such a fight during campaign season.

In a series of late-night tweets, Trump continued to bash President Barack Obama’s signature health-care law but said a vote on a replacement would not occur until after the elections — suggesting that he believes he would still be in the White House and that Republicans would control both chambers of Congress at that point.

“Vote will be taken right after the Election when Republicans hold the Senate & win back the House,” Trump wrote. “It will be truly great HealthCare that will work for America.”
Silver - 1k

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 39405
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Smoove_B » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:53 am

I hope that anyone voting for the GOP thinking that they're going to reveal an awesome healthcare plan for American after repealing the ACA gets what they deserve.

User avatar
Kurth
Posts: 3233
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:19 am
Location: Portland

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Kurth » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:57 am

Smoove_B wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:53 am
I hope that anyone voting for the GOP thinking that they're going to reveal an awesome healthcare plan for American after repealing the ACA gets what they deserve.
What? You don't think Trump has something really great he's about to roll out after 2020? You don't think he's been burning the midnight oil with the top people coming up with an innovative plan to address one of our most challenging and intractable problems? :roll:
The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it -- John Gilmore

User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 21673
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Zaxxon » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:01 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:53 am
I hope that anyone voting for the GOP thinking that they're going to reveal an awesome healthcare plan for American after repealing the ACA gets what they deserve.
I think we're a little beyond hoping that the folks voting for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party will ever overcome the cognitive dissonance involved in order to see whose faces are being consumed, aren't we? It's pretty clear that's never, ever going to happen.

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 39405
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Smoove_B » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:42 pm

Most days all I have left is schadenfreude. It's not healthy, but it's been carrying me since 2016.
What? You don't think Trump has something really great he's about to roll out after 2020? You don't think he's been burning the midnight oil with the top people coming up with an innovative plan to address one of our most challenging and intractable problems?
It really cements my thought that he's a political carnival barker. Want to see what we have in store? Vote for us and I'll show you after we win - and not a moment sooner. But it's good - so good.

User avatar
The Meal
Posts: 26459
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:33 pm
Location: 2005 Stanley Cup Champion
the_meal’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by The Meal » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:40 pm

Reality TV President.
Not a pathological narcissist.

User avatar
gbasden
Posts: 5721
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:57 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by gbasden » Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:18 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:42 pm

It really cements my thought that he's a political carnival barker. Want to see what we have in store? Vote for us and I'll show you after we win - and not a moment sooner. But it's good - so good.
Again, one would think that after he made this promise before and then had nothing to propose for the first two years of his administration that people would learn. But it's been proven over and over that people are stupid.

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 39405
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Smoove_B » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:48 pm

gbasden wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:18 pm
Again, one would think that after he made this promise before and then had nothing to propose for the first two years of his administration that people would learn. But it's been proven over and over that people are stupid.
No, no. You're not remembering things correctly:


I was never planning a vote prior to the 2020 Election on the wonderful HealthCare package that some very talented people are now developing for me & the Republican Party. It will be on full display during the Election as a much better & less expensive alternative to ObamaCare...

User avatar
$iljanus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 10655
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 pm
Location: Under the bed...your bed...

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by $iljanus » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:57 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
gbasden wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:18 pm
Again, one would think that after he made this promise before and then had nothing to propose for the first two years of his administration that people would learn. But it's been proven over and over that people are stupid.
No, no. You're not remembering things correctly:


I was never planning a vote prior to the 2020 Election on the wonderful HealthCare package that some very talented people are now developing for me & the Republican Party. It will be on full display during the Election as a much better & less expensive alternative to ObamaCare...
Damn, the fluidity of Trumpspeak is something out of 1984. Except the rulers in the book have a malevolent intelligence about them. The Donald is just, well, a dimwit.
tl;dr

Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 39405
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Smoove_B » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:02 pm

$iljanus wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:57 pm
Damn, the fluidity of Trumpspeak is something out of 1984. Except the rulers in the book have a malevolent intelligence about them. The Donald is just, well, a dimwit.
Weird, right?
"On 10/25/16 Trump" wrote:"My first day in office, I am going to ask Congress to put a bill on my desk getting rid of this disastrous law and replacing it with reforms that expand choice, freedom, affordability," said Trump on Oct. 25, a day after he St. Augustine speech, in Sanford, Florida. "You're going to have such great health care at a tiny fraction of the cost. And it's going to be so easy."
and then right before the election:
“When we win on November 8th and elect a Republican Congress, we will be able to immediately repeal and replace Obamacare -- have to do it," said Trump, who also added, "Obamacare has to be replaced and we will do it and we will do it very, very quickly."

A campaign press release on the speech doubled down on the promise in its title: "Donald J. Trump pledges to immediately repeal and replace Obamacare."
So based on what he's saying now, I guess we can only assume then that he fully planned on repealing it the first day he was in the Oval Office, and then replacing it at some point in 2020?

User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 60578
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by LordMortis » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:13 pm

I don't understand how he can use the same medium to flat out contradict himself and a single reasonable person can accept anything he says. Ever. I can't. It makes no. I.





User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 45972
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:20 pm

the wonderful HealthCare package that some very talented people are now developing for me & the Republican Party.
They're developing a health care package for the Ameican people.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
$iljanus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 10655
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 pm
Location: Under the bed...your bed...

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by $iljanus » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:04 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
the wonderful HealthCare package that some very talented people are now developing for me & the Republican Party.
They're developing a health care package for the Ameican people.
I suppose health care would be quite affordable if it only needed to cover the Leader and those in good standing with the party.
tl;dr

Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?

User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 26393
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana
Contact:
Blackhawk’s avatar
Online

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Blackhawk » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:12 pm

Any health care plan is going to save a fortune if you can delay it long enough for the poor and those with preexisting conditions to die off.
[This space left intentionally blank.]

User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 17205
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Unagi » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:31 pm

I'd think his proclamation that 'he isn't going to, and never even planned to implement or even discuss his solution to Healthcare until 2020, would be a great point for Dems to drive home to anyone that is currently struggling with healthcare.

It's an example (yet again) of Trumps seriously inferior negotiating/political skills (to declare his position like this, if nothing else) , and yet the Dems are very unlikely to make any political use of this tactical blunder.

User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 60578
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by LordMortis » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:43 pm

Unagi wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:31 pm
It's an example (yet again) of Trumps seriously inferior negotiating/political skills (to declare his position like this, if nothing else) , and yet the Dems are very unlikely to make any political use of this tactical blunder.
You'd think George Soros would create a superpac that does nothing but broadcast his tweets on TV and Radio and Internet ads. Just a barrage that nothing but quote him.

User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 13129
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Pac-12 Country

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Skinypupy » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:05 am

'Conscience Rights' for health care workers.
Moral and religious objections to providing health care sometimes arise in medicine: A medical assistant might not agree with blood transfusions. A nurse might not want to assist in sex reassignment surgery.

Last month, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services put out a new rule that "implements full and robust enforcement" of existing laws that protect what the administration calls "conscience rights" for health care workers. The rule is set to go into effect on July 22.

As NPR has previously reported, the new rule expands the kinds of workers who are covered by those laws — to include, for example, reception and billing staff. Even though relatively few of these complaints get submitted to HHS each year, this emphasis on religious freedom has been a hallmark of the department under the Trump administration.
So what's the harm of a rule designed to affirm health workers' right to exclude themselves from providing medical care that they say violates their religious or moral beliefs?

"If the rule goes through as it's written, patients will die," says Santa Clara's county executive, Jeff Smith, who is a physician as well as an attorney by training.

"We will have a guaranteed situation where a woman has had a complication of an abortion, where she's bleeding out and needs to have the services of some employee who has moral objections," Smith predicts. "That patient will die because the employee is not providing the services that are needed."
So, do no harm...unless I believe that you're a filthy sinner according to my specific interpretation of my holy book of choice. In which case, fuck you, you're on your own.
“Don’t tickle the wall clown.” - MST3K

Jeff V
Posts: 31245
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: Nowhere you want to be.

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Jeff V » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:23 am

Skinypupy wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:05 am
So, do no harm...unless I believe that you're a filthy sinner according to my specific interpretation of my holy book of choice. In which case, fuck you, you're on your own.
You've nailed the essence of every religion that ever was. Intolerance is baked into every religion -- and something like this won't stop at workers refusing to treat abortion complications, but also homosexuals, other races, and above all other religions. People best not be outliers in their own community because if shit goes bad, they're on their own.

User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 13129
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Pac-12 Country

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Skinypupy » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:12 am

Jeff V wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:23 am
Skinypupy wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:05 am
So, do no harm...unless I believe that you're a filthy sinner according to my specific interpretation of my holy book of choice. In which case, fuck you, you're on your own.
You've nailed the essence of every religion that ever was. Intolerance is baked into every religion -- and something like this won't stop at workers refusing to treat abortion complications, but also homosexuals, other races, and above all other religions. People best not be outliers in their own community because if shit goes bad, they're on their own.
As a non-Mormon living in Utah, I’m keenly aware of this fact.

Thankfully, Mrs Skinypupy is still a member of the “tribe”, so we won’t get completely shunned if shit goes sideways.
“Don’t tickle the wall clown.” - MST3K

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 45972
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:06 pm

As NPR has previously reported, the new rule expands the kinds of workers who are covered by those laws — to include, for example, reception and billing staff.
That's insane. It's also unworkable.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 60160
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:10 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:06 pm
As NPR has previously reported, the new rule expands the kinds of workers who are covered by those laws — to include, for example, reception and billing staff.
That's insane. It's also unworkable.
I'm fine with them not billing me for a procedure that they disagree with.
Silver - 1k

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 39405
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Smoove_B » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:16 pm

Next up: protections for vegan and vegetarian butchers.

Jeff V
Posts: 31245
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: Nowhere you want to be.

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Jeff V » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:21 pm

I would hope that it will at least be legal to ask if you have any moral objections that might prevent you from performing essential job-related tasks. If they say yes, have a nice day, bub-bye. If they say no and then come up with something after the fact, fire them for lying on their application (you are not, to be clear, firing them for their religious views).

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 45972
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:28 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:10 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:06 pm
As NPR has previously reported, the new rule expands the kinds of workers who are covered by those laws — to include, for example, reception and billing staff.
That's insane. It's also unworkable.
I'm fine with them not billing me for a procedure that they disagree with.
Are you cool with them looking at your medical records to determine if a procedure code was for service related to a procedure they disagree with? Or just making blanket assumptions to be safe?

Example: an ob/gyn office visit could be routine or post abortion follow up. A D&C could he related to a miscarriage or an abortion. Do we want pearl-clutching, religious zealot office staff combing over dx codes to determine if they object to a 99213 or not?
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 60160
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:29 pm

That works fine in the big cities. Less so in one-doctor towns.
Silver - 1k

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 60160
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:31 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:28 pm
Isgrimnur wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:10 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:06 pm
As NPR has previously reported, the new rule expands the kinds of workers who are covered by those laws — to include, for example, reception and billing staff.
That's insane. It's also unworkable.
I'm fine with them not billing me for a procedure that they disagree with.
Are you cool with them looking at your medical records to determine if a procedure code was for service related to a procedure they disagree with? Or just making blanket assumptions to be safe?

Example: an ob/gyn office visit could be routine or post abortion follow up. A D&C could he related to a miscarriage or an abortion. Do we want pearl-clutching, religious zealot office staff combing over dx codes to determine if they object to a 99213 or not?
I was being flippant. If you refuse to do your job, you need to be given the opportunity to find a different one, post haste. The protections of public accommodations should be extended to all healthcare services.
Silver - 1k

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 45972
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:34 pm

Jeff V wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:21 pm
I would hope that it will at least be legal to ask if you have any moral objections that might prevent you from performing essential job-related tasks. If they say yes, have a nice day, bub-bye. If they say no and then come up with something after the fact, fire them for lying on their application (you are not, to be clear, firing them for their religious views).
It's not legal and this new rule is set to increase enforcement and make it more difficult to get around.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

Post Reply