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The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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El Guapo
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo » Thu May 02, 2019 11:56 am

Barr's likely to start affirmative investigations of Trump's opponents.

Incredibly chilling. In particular they're focused on ginning up a criminal investigation of Joe Biden, given that he's the current Democratic frontrunner.

Unless something is done to stop Barr, and it seems incredibly difficult to do much to stop Barr, I think there's a high chance that the next Democratic nominee will also be under a criminal investigation during a campaign, with the investigation TBD.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Unagi » Thu May 02, 2019 11:58 am

malchior wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 9:49 am
I see what you did there. Not cool.
I do not think he did what you think he did.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LordMortis » Thu May 02, 2019 11:58 am

Smoove_B wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:45 am
Keep watching to see how it's the fault of the Democrats that Barr didn't come to the hearing. Unbelievable.

It's absolutely time to start ratcheting up the process and start holding elected officials responsible for voting/approving whatever needs to be done. Get them all on official record.
Heh, I got that far Doug Collins made me turn it off. I actually got several minutes in, waiting to hear why it was the Democrats fault. I killed it around "He spoke for six hours to the Senate". The closest he ever came was "Democrats want impeachment hearing without actually impeaching". That may or may not be the case. It still never gave me a proximate cause. Motive is just that. Motive.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Trent Steel » Thu May 02, 2019 12:18 pm

It’s worth it to watch to the end. Nadler wrapped things up LIKE A BOSS.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by pr0ner » Thu May 02, 2019 12:35 pm

Trent Steel wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:18 pm
It’s worth it to watch to the end. Nadler wrapped things up LIKE A BOSS.
Did he eat fried chicken, too?
Hodor.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Smoove_B » Thu May 02, 2019 12:35 pm

So we're all in agreement then? What's next?


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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior » Thu May 02, 2019 12:37 pm

Trent Steel wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:18 pm
It’s worth it to watch to the end. Nadler wrapped things up LIKE A BOSS.
Seriously. Doug Collins defense of Barr was at the level of complaining about minor details that I'd expect from a junior project manager. Complete with ridiculous volume of voice and distortion of facts.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo » Thu May 02, 2019 12:38 pm

Well, that would point towards impeachment of Barr, though that's also super unlikely to be confirmed in the Senate.

The other option (that the House could pursue without the Senate) are intrusive subpoenas of Barr backed by contempt threats, which seems like the way to go.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Unagi » Thu May 02, 2019 12:41 pm

pr0ner wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:35 pm
Trent Steel wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:18 pm
It’s worth it to watch to the end. Nadler wrapped things up LIKE A BOSS.
Did he eat fried chicken, too?
That was from Rep. Steve Cohen (D-TN), who brought chicken props to mock Barr.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... spartanntp

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Unagi » Thu May 02, 2019 12:42 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:38 pm
Well, that would point towards impeachment of Barr, though that's also super unlikely to be confirmed in the Senate.

The other option (that the House could pursue without the Senate) are intrusive subpoenas of Barr backed by contempt threats, which seems like the way to go.
what would that result in. Honest question, needing education.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior » Thu May 02, 2019 12:47 pm

FWIW the Republican strategy is starting to become apparent. Get them to appear in front of the Senate with some measure of Republican protection and then pretend the Democrats in the House only want a circus.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior » Thu May 02, 2019 12:48 pm

Unagi wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:42 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:38 pm
Well, that would point towards impeachment of Barr, though that's also super unlikely to be confirmed in the Senate.

The other option (that the House could pursue without the Senate) are intrusive subpoenas of Barr backed by contempt threats, which seems like the way to go.
what would that result in. Honest question, needing education.
Spoiler:
Nothing happens

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo » Thu May 02, 2019 12:48 pm

Unagi wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:42 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:38 pm
Well, that would point towards impeachment of Barr, though that's also super unlikely to be confirmed in the Senate.

The other option (that the House could pursue without the Senate) are intrusive subpoenas of Barr backed by contempt threats, which seems like the way to go.
what would that result in. Honest question, needing education.
Well, under 'inherent contempt' power (which evidently hasn't been used since 1934) the House could basically arrest Barr (assuming he refuses to comply with subpoenas) and unilaterally detain him.

I'm not sure whether they could hold him in contempt for past lies to Congress. They could refer that to, uh, DOJ.

Contempt of Congress.
Inherent contempt
Edit

Under this process, the procedure for holding a person in contempt involves only the chamber concerned. Following a contempt citation, the person cited is arrested by the Sergeant-at-Arms for the House or Senate, brought to the floor of the chamber, held to answer charges by the presiding officer, and then subjected to punishment as the chamber may dictate (usually imprisonment for punishment reasons, imprisonment for coercive effect, or release from the contempt citation). [10]

Concerned with the time-consuming nature of a contempt proceeding and the inability to extend punishment further than the session of the Congress concerned (under Supreme Court rulings), Congress created a statutory process in 1857. While Congress retains its "inherent contempt" authority and may exercise it at any time, this inherent contempt process was last used by the Senate in 1934, in a Senate investigation of airlines and the U.S. Postmaster. After a one-week trial on the Senate floor (presided over by Vice President John Nance Garner, in his capacity as Senate President), William P. MacCracken, Jr., a lawyer and former Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Aeronautics who was charged with allowing clients to remove or rip up subpoenaed documents, was found guilty and sentenced to 10 days imprisonment.[11]

MacCracken filed a petition of habeas corpus in federal courts to overturn his arrest, but after litigation, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Congress had acted constitutionally, and denied the petition in the case Jurney v. MacCracken.[12][13]

Presidential pardons appear not to apply to a civil contempt procedure such as the above, since it is not an "offense against the United States" or against "the dignity of public authority."[14]

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo » Thu May 02, 2019 12:49 pm

I think it's pretty clear that we're headed for a crisis of one type or another before the 2020 election.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Unagi » Thu May 02, 2019 12:51 pm

Is that what The Mace is for?

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior » Thu May 02, 2019 12:53 pm

We're already in the crisis. We are only a few months into Dem control of the House and the WH has basically given them the finger over and over. The Senate will provide no help and only protection for Trump. Nadler wasn't overstating the case. We are looking at the end of our form of government. It'll be in many small cuts to come but 2020 is going to be a shit show of an election. As pointed out, the Dem candidate will be under investigation by some Federal investigatory body. No matter who it is. They will use investigations to affect the primary process too.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Thu May 02, 2019 12:54 pm

malchior wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:48 pm
Unagi wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:42 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:38 pm
Well, that would point towards impeachment of Barr, though that's also super unlikely to be confirmed in the Senate.

The other option (that the House could pursue without the Senate) are intrusive subpoenas of Barr backed by contempt threats, which seems like the way to go.
what would that result in. Honest question, needing education.
Spoiler:
Nothing happens
Not exactly. They'd be a Twitter temper tantrum from the toddler in the nation's highest office.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by pr0ner » Thu May 02, 2019 12:56 pm

Unagi wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:41 pm
pr0ner wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:35 pm
Trent Steel wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:18 pm
It’s worth it to watch to the end. Nadler wrapped things up LIKE A BOSS.
Did he eat fried chicken, too?
That was from Rep. Steve Cohen (D-TN), who brought chicken props to mock Barr.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... spartanntp
I know, hence the word "too" in my post!
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Unagi » Thu May 02, 2019 1:01 pm

Yeah, I thought you may have mean it like that. but then I also thought you could have just jumped to the end of the video and seen the Bucket o' KFC and wondered "On top of wrapping it up like a boss, did he eat chicken as well?"

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LordMortis » Thu May 02, 2019 1:57 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:49 pm
I think it's pretty clear that we're headed for a crisis of one type or another before the 2020 election.
I wanted to believe it was avoidable but the GOP is demanding it at every turn. Every time they are given a path to "not GOP power brokers will eat this much shit to save the Republic" "That much shit? Oh no no no." The Replublic is at stake, I don't accept the amount of shit you are willing to eat. You are my hostage. You will eat how much shit I tell you. And then going to shoot you anyway.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Sepiche » Thu May 02, 2019 3:40 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:56 am
Unless something is done to stop Barr, and it seems incredibly difficult to do much to stop Barr, I think there's a high chance that the next Democratic nominee will also be under a criminal investigation during a campaign, with the investigation TBD.
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about that a whole lot. I'm sure we can rely on the press to accurately... oh shit, we're fucked aren't we?

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Blackhawk » Thu May 02, 2019 4:10 pm

I think the hardest part, for me, is just not saying, "fuck it" and giving up on our society.
[This space left intentionally blank.]

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Sepiche » Thu May 02, 2019 4:16 pm

Jokes aside, I remain optimistic despite the fact that the entire GOP seems to be happy to give this whole authoritarian thing a try for a while.

The fact that a majority of voters in many key states are strongly against voting for Drumpf is encouraging, but I for one won't sleep well until the next President is sworn in.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LordMortis » Thu May 02, 2019 4:32 pm

Sepiche wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:16 pm
The fact that a majority of voters in many key states are strongly against voting for Drumpf is encouraging,
You have more faith than I do. I feel like America has failed her people and the people have failed America. I see too many strongly and too many silently supporting President with all of the active mindedness of a Derby Horse during the race.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/02/politics ... index.html
CNN)President Donald Trump hits a new high on his economic approval ratings in a new CNN Poll conducted by SSRS, reaching 56% of Americans saying he's doing a good job on the economy.
The result comes on the heels of the announcement that the US economy grew at a much better rate than expected in the first quarter, and Trump's performance on the economy becomes one of his prime selling points for next year's general election.
but I for one won't sleep well until the next President is sworn in.
Or maybe not.
Last edited by LordMortis on Thu May 02, 2019 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Thu May 02, 2019 4:39 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:32 pm

CNN)President Donald Trump hits a new high on his economic approval ratings in a new CNN Poll conducted by SSRS, reaching 56% of Americans saying he's doing a good job on the economy.
The result comes on the heels of the announcement that the US economy grew at a much better rate than expected in the first quarter, and Trump's performance on the economy becomes one of his prime selling points for next year's general election.
The worst part is that when the "Trump economy" tanks he can just blame brown immigrants or the deep state or Dems or whoever to rile up the base. And they'll bite.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LordMortis » Thu May 02, 2019 4:46 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:39 pm
The worst part is that when the "Trump economy" tanks he can just blame brown immigrants or the deep state or Dems or whoever to rile up the base. And they'll bite.
Isn't all economic failure due to partisan Democrat obstruction?

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Sepiche » Thu May 02, 2019 4:48 pm

Drumpf's base is lost to reason until Fox News stops whispering sweet racial slurs in their ears. That is the sad truth.

Hope lies in the fact that they are heavily outnumbered by non-radicalized citizens:
Enlarge Image

On paper, it's not possible for Drumpf to make up the difference that poll indicates exists. That said, until the non-radicals among us turn out and vote him out of office, it's all only theoretical.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo » Thu May 02, 2019 4:55 pm

Sepiche wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:48 pm
Drumpf's base is lost to reason until Fox News stops whispering sweet racial slurs in their ears. That is the sad truth.

Hope lies in the fact that they are heavily outnumbered by non-radicalized citizens:
Enlarge Image

On paper, it's not possible for Drumpf to make up the difference that poll indicates exists. That said, until the non-radicals among us turn out and vote him out of office, it's all only theoretical.
Trump's path to reelection lies less in becoming more popular and more in making the Democratic nominee at least roughly as unpopular as he is. Which unfortunately is a fairly doable proposition, especially with the benefit of Fox News, Senate investigations, and the Department of Justice.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Holman » Thu May 02, 2019 4:58 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:55 pm
Sepiche wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:48 pm
Drumpf's base is lost to reason until Fox News stops whispering sweet racial slurs in their ears. That is the sad truth.

Hope lies in the fact that they are heavily outnumbered by non-radicalized citizens:
Enlarge Image

On paper, it's not possible for Drumpf to make up the difference that poll indicates exists. That said, until the non-radicals among us turn out and vote him out of office, it's all only theoretical.
Trump's path to reelection lies less in becoming more popular and more in making the Democratic nominee at least roughly as unpopular as he is. Which unfortunately is a fairly doable proposition, especially with the benefit of Fox News, Senate investigations, and the Department of Justice.
Or they can invite someone special to hack the voting machines in a few key locations.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior » Thu May 02, 2019 6:06 pm

Holman wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:58 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:55 pm
Sepiche wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:48 pm
Drumpf's base is lost to reason until Fox News stops whispering sweet racial slurs in their ears. That is the sad truth.

Hope lies in the fact that they are heavily outnumbered by non-radicalized citizens:
Enlarge Image

On paper, it's not possible for Drumpf to make up the difference that poll indicates exists. That said, until the non-radicals among us turn out and vote him out of office, it's all only theoretical.
Trump's path to reelection lies less in becoming more popular and more in making the Democratic nominee at least roughly as unpopular as he is. Which unfortunately is a fairly doable proposition, especially with the benefit of Fox News, Senate investigations, and the Department of Justice.
Or they can invite someone special to hack the voting machines in a few key locations.
They don't even need to invite. They just will do what they are doing now which is just passively allow it to happen.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Z-Corn » Thu May 02, 2019 6:07 pm

Unagi wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 1:01 pm
Yeah, I thought you may have mean it like that. but then I also thought you could have just jumped to the end of the video and seen the Bucket o' KFC and wondered "On top of wrapping it up like a boss, did he eat chicken as well?"
Image

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LordMortis » Thu May 02, 2019 7:06 pm

malchior wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 6:06 pm
They don't even need to invite. They just will do what they are doing now which is just passively allow it to happen.
NO COLLUSION

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LordMortis » Thu May 02, 2019 7:14 pm

So I go to look up KFC. I assummed it was to call Barr chicken but I misunderstand and assume incorrectly... a lot... So I look it up and the first think I come across is this

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/polit ... 59304.html
“What this really boils down to is theater, some of it almost to the level of comedy. Let me give you an example of what I mean. There was a House hearing today. I’m about to put up a picture that actually was on CSPAN, that actually occurred in a house hearing,” Tillis said as part of his floor speech.

“You tell me whether or not the chair of this committee is actually serious about this subject when you’ve got a guy eating fried chicken in place of where they wanted Attorney General Barr to be.

“This guy didn’t have even have good enough sense to have Bojangles’ chicken.

“They’ve got, the chair and others, letting him have that kind of theater in a House committee room. Really? Can you honestly say you’re serious about this or is this like a circus and a political tool because you lost? You wanted the president to be guilty. You wanted to prove he obstructed. I get that. A lot of it was a political exercise.”
He gets it but tries to make it sound like he doesn't get it. Is there any question that eating KFC during Barr's no show is theatre reaching comedy?

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by YellowKing » Thu May 02, 2019 8:21 pm

Snowflake.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by YellowKing » Thu May 02, 2019 8:25 pm

LordMortis wrote:CNN)President Donald Trump hits a new high on his economic approval ratings in a new CNN Poll conducted by SSRS, reaching 56% of Americans saying he's doing a good job on the economy.
And yet it's barely budged his overall approval rating. That's terrible news for him.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Thu May 02, 2019 9:45 pm

Sepiche wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:48 pm
Drumpf's base is lost to reason until Fox News stops whispering sweet racial slurs in their ears. That is the sad truth.

Hope lies in the fact that they are heavily outnumbered by non-radicalized citizens:
Enlarge Image

On paper, it's not possible for Drumpf to make up the difference that poll indicates exists. That said, until the non-radicals among us turn out and vote him out of office, it's all only theoretical.
Anyone who "would consider" has to be bordering on lost cause at this point. Anyone who "would consider" Trump at this point is just lacking the courage to say "definitely would."

Throw in voter suppression and Russian antics and you've got a recipe for another tossup.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by milo » Thu May 02, 2019 9:57 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:55 pm
Trump's path to reelection lies less in becoming more popular and more in making the Democratic nominee at least roughly as unpopular as he is. Which unfortunately is a fairly doable proposition, especially with the benefit of Fox News, Senate investigations, and the Department of Justice.
Trump's path to reelection lies in it being super hard for the Democratic nominee to campaign from Guantanamo.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Remus West » Fri May 03, 2019 7:57 am

El Guapo wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:55 pm
Sepiche wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:48 pm
Drumpf's base is lost to reason until Fox News stops whispering sweet racial slurs in their ears. That is the sad truth.

Hope lies in the fact that they are heavily outnumbered by non-radicalized citizens:
Enlarge Image

On paper, it's not possible for Drumpf to make up the difference that poll indicates exists. That said, until the non-radicals among us turn out and vote him out of office, it's all only theoretical.
Trump's path to reelection lies less in becoming more popular and more in making the Democratic nominee at least roughly as unpopular as he is. Which unfortunately is a fairly doable proposition, especially with the benefit of Fox News, Senate investigations, and the Department of Justice.
I was going to mention that not being willing to vote for tRump is not the same as being willing to vote for his Democratic opponent.

Also, anyone else wondering if we have already moved irrevocably down the path that ends in totalitarianism?
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LordMortis » Fri May 03, 2019 8:39 am

YellowKing wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 8:25 pm
LordMortis wrote:CNN)President Donald Trump hits a new high on his economic approval ratings in a new CNN Poll conducted by SSRS, reaching 56% of Americans saying he's doing a good job on the economy.
And yet it's barely budged his overall approval rating. That's terrible news for him.
I'd agree but I moreso agree with the sentiment that I won't sleep well until a new president is sworn in.

I'm not a Democrat and doubt I ever will be but I can't call myself independent anymore because there is not direct path to me voting GOP anymore. I'm not left leaning but the right has to go.

I also fear Lawbeef is right "consider" is in my experience is a cowardly way to say "will" at this point.
Remus West wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 7:57 am
Also, anyone else wondering if we have already moved irrevocably down the path that ends in totalitarianism?
Wondering and fearing, yes, but hoping and believing, get back to me in 2020.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by YellowKing » Fri May 03, 2019 10:14 am

LordMortis wrote:I'm not a Democrat and doubt I ever will be but I can't call myself independent anymore because there is not direct path to me voting GOP anymore. I'm not left leaning but the right has to go.
I'm in the same position re: not seeing myself ever voting Republican again. It has seriously made me think about switching to D and being done with it. "Independent" makes me feel like I still tacitly approve of some stuff the GOP does, and that's just not true right now.

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