2024 Fundraising - $1192 / $2000 CDN for the year, June/July Renewal. Paypal Donation Link US dollars
The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus
- pr0ner
- Posts: 17436
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia, VA
- Contact:
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
The Senate Intelligence Committee (chaired by a Republican!) has issued a subpoena for one Donald Trump Jr.
Last edited by pr0ner on Wed May 08, 2019 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hodor.
- Smoove_B
- Posts: 54867
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
- Location: Kaer Morhen
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
It's probably to give him an award.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- LawBeefaroni
- Forum Moderator
- Posts: 55440
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
- Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
It's for a hearing to be held on a savanna hunting safari. Tough questions will be asked like, "Can you hit that lion at 200 yards" and "want to catch a chopper to Jo-burg?"
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
-
- Posts: 3940
- Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:15 am
- Location: Second star to the right
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
I agree it's nice to see at least one R at least quasi taking Congress' oversight responsibility seriously. But I think it's well established at this point that nothing matters and nothing will happen. We just have to hope enough of the deplorables stay home in Nov of 2020 to make a difference the right way this time.
OR
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.
-Hiccup
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.
-Hiccup
- GreenGoo
- Posts: 42455
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
- Location: Ottawa, ON
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
I assume it's just cover to show how unbiased they are, because clearly there are real ramifications associated with this subpoena. *cough*
- Kraken
- Posts: 43950
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
- Location: The Hub of the Universe
- Contact:
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Every day, Trump demonstrates that he is above the law and the Constitution doesn't apply to his government. The only way Democrats can change that is to impeach him...which will most likely cost them the next election, and wouldn't work anyway with the Senate in his pocket. And so he goads them. One can only hope that enough voters are paying attention and still care, and that they'll be allowed to vote. I am not confident of either proposition.
-
- Posts: 24795
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Well worth the 3:30 view.
- Unagi
- Posts: 26668
- Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Oh fuck yeah
- LawBeefaroni
- Forum Moderator
- Posts: 55440
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
- Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
He's not very photogenic or funny or cool. Pass. Give me a meme with an Avenger or you'll lose me.
-America.
-America.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
- Unagi
- Posts: 26668
- Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
In 2 years, it will be a 7 minute video or more.
- Smoove_B
- Posts: 54867
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
- Location: Kaer Morhen
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Bill Kristol sharing some wisdom this afternoon from Marco - "I think an Attorney General held in contempt should resign."
Spoiler:
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- Enough
- Posts: 14688
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:05 pm
- Location: Serendipity
- Contact:
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
My blog (mostly photos): Fort Ephemera - My Flickr Photostream
“You only get one sunrise and one sunset a day, and you only get so many days on the planet. A good photographer does the math and doesn’t waste either.” ―Galen Rowell
“You only get one sunrise and one sunset a day, and you only get so many days on the planet. A good photographer does the math and doesn’t waste either.” ―Galen Rowell
- GreenGoo
- Posts: 42455
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
- Location: Ottawa, ON
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
If the entire scandal is that he hasn't paid income tax in 20 years, they (GOP, Drumpf administration) really haven't learned just how little the American people care about things. He's committing political "sins" on a near daily basis that are far, far worse than not paying taxes.
My point being, if they are fighting tooth and nail to keep his tax returns from becoming public solely because they show he hasn't paid taxes, then...wtf. They really, really have no idea what they are doing and are just trying things at random and hoping it works.
My point being, if they are fighting tooth and nail to keep his tax returns from becoming public solely because they show he hasn't paid taxes, then...wtf. They really, really have no idea what they are doing and are just trying things at random and hoping it works.
- Pyperkub
- Posts: 23763
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
- Location: NC- that's Northern California
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
You forget that he's a sexist egotistical lying hypocritical bigot. He will do anything to protect his ego. Plus, it won't be that he didn't pay taxes, it will be that he lied on then and to all his bankers, investors and insurers, which is also felony fraud, abs his house of debt will collapse on him.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
-
- Posts: 3940
- Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:15 am
- Location: Second star to the right
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
That's astonishing but yeah too bad it's 7 years old. At least it should be entertaining when he comes out to defend why he isn't following his own game plan now. More likely I suppose he'll just stay quiet and wait 30 seconds for the next shiny object to bounce into view and everyone will forget/stash under the rug his hypocrisy, along wth the rest of the party formerly known as the GOP.
OR
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.
-Hiccup
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.
-Hiccup
- Skinypupy
- Posts: 20453
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
- Location: Utah
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Came to post Rubio’s 2012 statement. Another not-so-shocking bit of hypocrisy to throw on top of the pile.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
- Smoove_B
- Posts: 54867
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
- Location: Kaer Morhen
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Well, if there's one thing where someone's position can certainly evolve, it's the rule of law. What a goddamn joke. Regarding attention spans, I think that's exactly the current administration's strategy. Stonewall everything with the hopes the next big thing (school shooter, natural disaster, global event) distracts the public to the point where no one cares anymore. Knowing your always 3 days away from a major news event, you just need to hide until then. That's why I think it's important that the investigations, hearings, etc... continue nonstop - it should never be out of the news cycle.
It's unreal. I'm looking forward to someone asking him about it. I'm sure that will totally happen.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- Kurth
- Posts: 5994
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:19 am
- Location: Portland
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
I think you are missing the point(s). This plays out in one of two ways as far as Insee it:GreenGoo wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 2:11 am If the entire scandal is that he hasn't paid income tax in 20 years, they (GOP, Drumpf administration) really haven't learned just how little the American people care about things. He's committing political "sins" on a near daily basis that are far, far worse than not paying taxes.
My point being, if they are fighting tooth and nail to keep his tax returns from becoming public solely because they show he hasn't paid taxes, then...wtf. They really, really have no idea what they are doing and are just trying things at random and hoping it works.
(1) If Trump’s returns are produced and it turns out he made a shit ton of money but found great loop holes or shelters to avoid having to pay any taxes, some will laud him for being an astute businessman, but many will be pissed. Like really pissed. Being Canadian, you may not fully have internalized how Americans feel about paying taxes (e.g., the whole “no taxation without representation” thing and our little revolution against the Crown). We generally do not like it. Not one bit. And even more than not liking paying our taxes, we do not like when others are seen to be getting away with not paying theirs.
(2) If Trump’s returns are produced and it turns out he never made much money in the first place but instead was a big loser and grifter, that will eviscerate his reason for being and cut out the heart of his brand.
I think (2) is more likely and also more of a significant threat to Trump. I also think that’s why he will burn things down before allowing those returns to see the light of day.
Just 'cause you feel it, doesn't mean it's there -- Radiohead
Do you believe me? Do you trust me? Do you like me? 😳
Do you believe me? Do you trust me? Do you like me? 😳
- Kraken
- Posts: 43950
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
- Location: The Hub of the Universe
- Contact:
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Those old returns that show him losing >$1 billion over 10 years? He didn't have a billion to lose (his net worth at the beginning of the decade was estimated at $600M). He lost a billion of other people's dollars and then claimed the tax benefits for himself.
- El Guapo
- Posts: 41491
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
- Location: Boston
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
I dunno. I'm skeptical that either of those would make that much of a difference in 2020. Trump's path to reelection is to hold onto his base (~40% or so of the country), and then rely on a strong economy (if it's still strong) and smearing the Democratic nominee until (s)he is about as unpopular as him. I don't think either of the above, filtered through the magic of Fox News, would impact his support among his base.Kurth wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 10:23 amI think you are missing the point(s). This plays out in one of two ways as far as Insee it:GreenGoo wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 2:11 am If the entire scandal is that he hasn't paid income tax in 20 years, they (GOP, Drumpf administration) really haven't learned just how little the American people care about things. He's committing political "sins" on a near daily basis that are far, far worse than not paying taxes.
My point being, if they are fighting tooth and nail to keep his tax returns from becoming public solely because they show he hasn't paid taxes, then...wtf. They really, really have no idea what they are doing and are just trying things at random and hoping it works.
(1) If Trump’s returns are produced and it turns out he made a shit ton of money but found great loop holes or shelters to avoid having to pay any taxes, some will laud him for being an astute businessman, but many will be pissed. Like really pissed. Being Canadian, you may not fully have internalized how Americans feel about paying taxes (e.g., the whole “no taxation without representation” thing and our little revolution against the Crown). We generally do not like it. Not one bit. And even more than not liking paying our taxes, we do not like when others are seen to be getting away with not paying theirs.
(2) If Trump’s returns are produced and it turns out he never made much money in the first place but instead was a big loser and grifter, that will eviscerate his reason for being and cut out the heart of his brand.
I think (2) is more likely and also more of a significant threat to Trump. I also think that’s why he will burn things down before allowing those returns to see the light of day.
Black Lives Matter.
- Smoove_B
- Posts: 54867
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
- Location: Kaer Morhen
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Yeah, at one point I would have thought it would mean something. But Trump was raw-dogging a porn star after his son was born and people collectively shrugged their shoulders. It feels like ~30% of the public would think it was now awesome that he didn't pay taxes (they don't want to pay taxes either) and they look up to him for gaming the system. Everything is topsy-turvey now.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- El Guapo
- Posts: 41491
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
- Location: Boston
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
I mean, ultimately this stuff is a matter of perspective. Like, there is no set of news which would cause Trump to resign or would "destroy" him clickbait-headline style. I would consider news to be pretty devastating for him if it dropped his approval rating by (say) 2 - 3 points over a long-term average. And going from ~ 40% approval to ~ 38% approval *would* have a pretty huge negative impact on his reelection chances.Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 10:36 am Yeah, at one point I would have thought it would mean something. But Trump was raw-dogging a porn star after his son was born and people collectively shrugged their shoulders. It feels like ~30% of the public would think it was now awesome that he didn't pay taxes (they don't want to pay taxes either) and they look up to him for gaming the system. Everything is topsy-turvey now.
So if this stuff dropped his support by ~ 0.5% (say), that would be a significant problem but not totally or uniquely devastating.
Black Lives Matter.
- Blackhawk
- Posts: 44348
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
- Location: Southwest Indiana
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
I've come to believe that the content of complaints against Trump is no longer relevant. It simply doesn't matter anymore. What his base reacts to isn't the content, it's the fact that the 'other side' is attacking again, and their response is almost like the defensive response you see with cognitive dissonance. When they hear a new complaint, they simply see the attack, and their automatic response is to double down on their positions. That's why every new complaint seems to result in an increase of popularity. He isn't becoming more popular, as such, but his base that was starting to weary just gets re-energized by their defensive response.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
- Holman
- Posts: 29122
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
- Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Dems on the Senate Intelligence Committee have sent a letter to Chairman Lindsey Graham requesting that Mueller testify. The letter includes loooong list if questions unanswered by the Mueller Report:
It's a start.
Spoiler:
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- Zarathud
- Posts: 16613
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
- Location: Chicago, Illinois
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
The Mueller Report was a referral to Congress to evaluate whether there were impeachable offenses as the political remedy to Presidential misconduct under the Constitution. Stonewalling Congress proves the charge of obstruction, and is impeachable by itself.
The Democrats need to be clear on this.
The Democrats need to be clear on this.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
- pr0ner
- Posts: 17436
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia, VA
- Contact:
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Judiciary Committee, not Intelligence Committee.
The Intelligence Committee is chaired by Richard Burr, with Mark Warner as the ranking member. They're the ones who just subpoenaed Don Jr. about Russia.
Hodor.
- GreenGoo
- Posts: 42455
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
- Location: Ottawa, ON
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
I thought the Don Jr. subpoena was about a safari thing?
- GreenGoo
- Posts: 42455
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
- Location: Ottawa, ON
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
I don't think I am, but here's some follow up.
My comment was specifically because Drumpf retweeted about how 50% of Americans don't pay taxes. I interpreted (there are other ways of interpreting it, sure) that as him (potentially) saying "see, it's totally normal", and assuming his tax returns show that he hasn't paid any in years. Complete speculation. But if I'm right, I think he thinks Americans will care. They don't. As you yourself point out, paying taxes is a hate/hate thing with Americans. They do *not* want to pay taxes, and lot of Americans would rather people starve, have no health care and drive on rutted dirt paths instead of paying taxes (I don't think this is rhetoric. Taxes seem to be the ultimate evil for many Americans).
As a Canadian, I can only pay attention and learn how Americans view things. I have been paying attention and I do believe I am learning. That said, that's how I learn how my fellow Canadians view things as well. It's probably how Americans learn how their fellow Americans view things. It's sort of the main tool we've got, whatever our nationality.
It has not been my experience that Americans give 2 s**ts about whether someone pays their taxes or not. We have had repeated talking points spewed by multiple talking heads (even before drumpf) discussing the smart business acumen of paying as little taxes as possible. We could quibble about whether that same attitude applies to illegal methods of avoiding taxes, but I think it's clear that most people view legally paying as little tax as possible is a good thing. Hell, I think paying as little tax as possible as both positive and smart. Why would anyone *want* to pay more tax than is legally necessary? That's not the same thing as opposing tax increases to pay for necessary services though, which is where Dems and GOP differ, it seems.
See, I think the last bit here is complete nonsense. Particularly that it is viewed as worse than the taxes themselves. I mean, maybe, but as an outsider looking in, that just does not stand out as even on the same order of magnitude as the taxes themselves.
I am on record from the beginning (like, at least the last 2 years) that this is the main area of concern for him. My comments regarding lack of tax paying were specific to the retweet of his on the subject, not as to what I personally think is the issue.Kurth wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 10:23 am (2) If Trump’s returns are produced and it turns out he never made much money in the first place but instead was a big loser and grifter, that will eviscerate his reason for being and cut out the heart of his brand.
I think (2) is more likely and also more of a significant threat to Trump. I also think that’s why he will burn things down before allowing those returns to see the light of day.
- Pyperkub
- Posts: 23763
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
- Location: NC- that's Northern California
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Oh, and I forgot to add that if he's using his Presidential powers to hide crimes in those tax returns, Obstruction of Justice also applies.Pyperkub wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 2:59 am You forget that he's a sexist egotistical lying hypocritical bigot. He will do anything to protect his ego. Plus, it won't be that he didn't pay taxes, it will be that he lied on then and to all his bankers, investors and insurers, which is also felony fraud, abs his house of debt will collapse on him.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- pr0ner
- Posts: 17436
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia, VA
- Contact:
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
You took those responses seriously and didn't do research for yourself into what it's really about?! Oy.
Hodor.
- Holman
- Posts: 29122
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
- Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Yeah, sorry. I meant to come in and correct that.
And of course Graham won't do anything. But these questions will be asked in the House.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- GreenGoo
- Posts: 42455
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
- Location: Ottawa, ON
- pr0ner
- Posts: 17436
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia, VA
- Contact:
- GreenGoo
- Posts: 42455
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
- Location: Ottawa, ON
-
- Posts: 3940
- Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:15 am
- Location: Second star to the right
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
The sad / funny part is 'who the hell knows what its about'. Could be something legitimate or it could be a (R) sponsored attempt at minimizing the gravitas of the whole thing and they do end up asking Donnie boy about a safari(and importantly noting if he wore a pith style hat while killing endangered animals).
OR
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.
-Hiccup
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.
-Hiccup
- msteelers
- Posts: 7180
- Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:30 pm
- Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida
- Contact:
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Considering 6 other Republican Senators have strongly come out against this, I doubt its some light hearted PR ploy.
I also don’t think that Jr is any serious trouble. He’s acting like he isn’t going to show up, which would be interesting.
I also don’t think that Jr is any serious trouble. He’s acting like he isn’t going to show up, which would be interesting.
- pr0ner
- Posts: 17436
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia, VA
- Contact:
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Or we've all forgotten that the Senate Intelligence Committee has been conducting its own, bipartisan Russia probe separate from Mueller since 2017, a probe which isn't over yet, and the Trump, Jr. subpoena is actually part of that? The simplest explanation is the most likely the truth.
Hodor.
- Smoove_B
- Posts: 54867
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
- Location: Kaer Morhen
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
That he's being subpoenaed to get an award? I agree.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- pr0ner
- Posts: 17436
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia, VA
- Contact:
- Smoove_B
- Posts: 54867
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
- Location: Kaer Morhen
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Trump sends Giuliani to Ukraine to push for investigations that will benefit Trump. Totally serious....this is happening, because nothing matters.
Mr. Giuliani said he plans to travel to Kiev, the Ukrainian capital, in the coming days and wants to meet with the nation’s president-elect to urge him to pursue inquiries that allies of the White House contend could yield new information about two matters of intense interest to Mr. Trump.
One is the origin of the special counsel’s investigation into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election. The other is the involvement of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s son in a gas company owned by a Ukrainian oligarch.
Mr. Giuliani’s plans create the remarkable scene of a lawyer for the president of the United States pressing a foreign government to pursue investigations that Mr. Trump’s allies hope could help him in his re-election campaign. And it comes after Mr. Trump spent more than half of his term facing questions about whether his 2016 campaign conspired with a foreign power.
Maybe next year, maybe no go