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Holman
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Holman »

Hillary Clinton was on Rachel Maddow's show this week. She seems impressively sane.

One of the takeaways is this clip, where she offers a speculative what-if about how wrong it is to accept campaign help from foreign espionage:



Need it be mentioned that right-wing media is snipping soundbites out of context to make it sound like HRC is actually asking for this?
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Trent Steel
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

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HRC is clearly asking for this and I think it's brilliant.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Holman »

His tie is barely past his belt here. Can we trust his MAGA?
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by AWS260 »



I would argue it's more of a testament to American ignorance, with a side serving of bigotry.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

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:o
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by noxiousdog »

His other one is just as interesting:
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by stessier »

noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 11:48 am His other one is just as interesting:
I agree that the people who know the name would likely vote that the theory should be taught, but it would be pretty easy to get a 53% No response to teaching the Big Bang in my neck of the woods.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by noxiousdog »

stessier wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 1:13 pm I agree that the people who know the name would likely vote that the theory should be taught, but it would be pretty easy to get a 53% No response to teaching the Big Bang in my neck of the woods.
Sorry, that's the wrong twitter post. There's one that breaks it down by ideology which is the important part. It's just showing bias and Dunning-Kreuger.

Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Alefroth »

You don't have to be prejudiced to think a creation theory shouldn't be taught in science. When is the Big Bang ever referred to as a creation theory?
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Unagi »

I totally agree. 'creation' means something in this context. The question is massively misleading.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

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That's your bias showing.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by hepcat »

Yeah, that's one of those questions designed to make a group feel even more smug than they believe they already are. It's the equivalent of talk show hosts going out on the street and asking dumb questions to see if they can get a dumb response.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by LordMortis »

noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 1:54 pm That's your bias showing.
It is misleading but then so is the Arabic numbers question. It's designed to expose ignorance. People who do assessment for a living do this all of the time if their goal is to find out if you really know something.

What's amusing to me is the person in the twitter link being critical is "Edu. assessment designer". She asks why the trick question and then suggests the whole poll to make people looked bigoted and leaves subtext the pollsters should be called in to question.

https://www.uwosh.edu/testing/faculty-i ... ectiveness

Really what's revealing to me is the amount of people not willing to say no opinion. Ignorance is what it is. Professing to be in the right from a position of ignorance is at issue. I can only make an weak assumption that "is what is being said about the pollsters" as far as what they are trying to get a feel for.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Alefroth »

noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 1:54 pm That's your bias showing.
How is it bias?
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by gilraen »

LordMortis wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:24 pm It is misleading but then so is the Arabic numbers question.
There's a difference in that the phrase itself ("creation theory") has been appropriated with a different meaning. "Creationism" is pretty much the exact opposite of Lemaitre's original hypothesis. There's no way to misread the "Arabic numerals" question - either you know what that means or you don't.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by LordMortis »

gilraen wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:35 pm
LordMortis wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:24 pm It is misleading but then so is the Arabic numbers question.
There's a difference in that the phrase itself ("creation theory") has been appropriated with a different meaning. "Creationism" is pretty much the exact opposite of Lemaitre's original hypothesis. There's no way to misread the "Arabic numerals" question - either you know what that means or you don't.
I don't buy that. The sameness is that the questions were designed to see if you would focus on a trigger word that would probably get you to answer the opposite of what you really believe the case.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by stessier »

Alefroth wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:28 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 1:54 pm That's your bias showing.
How is it bias?
I think it's because you are suggesting the Big Bang theory is not a description of creation.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by noxiousdog »

Alefroth wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:28 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 1:54 pm That's your bias showing.
How is it bias?
You assume it's Creationism because it's a priest/religion proposing a theory.

If someone asked you for your theory on creation, you'd (most likely.. I don't know your personal belief) tell them the Big Bang Theory without blinking an eye.
Last edited by noxiousdog on Wed May 15, 2019 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

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Is Twitter destroying productive public discourse? Yes, yes it is
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by hepcat »

noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:46 pm
Alefroth wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:28 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 1:54 pm That's your bias showing.
How is it bias?
You assume it's Creationism because it's a priest/religion proposing a theory.

If someone asked you for your theory on creation, you'd (most likely.. I don't know your personal belief) tell them the Big Bang Theory without blinking an eye.
That bias is propagated primarily by religious appropriation of any form of the word "creation" though. Google the term "creation theory" and you'll see nothing but results dealing with creationism.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by LordMortis »

hepcat wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 3:16 pm Google the term "creation theory" and you'll see nothing but results dealing with creationism.
I googled "big bang theory" and I saw nothing but results dealing with a TV show.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by gilraen »

LordMortis wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 3:20 pm I googled "big bang theory" and I saw nothing but results dealing with a TV show.
:lol:
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by noxiousdog »

hepcat wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 3:16 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:46 pm
Alefroth wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:28 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 1:54 pm That's your bias showing.
How is it bias?
You assume it's Creationism because it's a priest/religion proposing a theory.

If someone asked you for your theory on creation, you'd (most likely.. I don't know your personal belief) tell them the Big Bang Theory without blinking an eye.
That bias is propagated primarily by religious appropriation of any form of the word "creation" though. Google the term "creation theory" and you'll see nothing but results dealing with creationism.
Of course it is. That's how bias works. It doesn't come out of nowhere.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by GreenGoo »

Sure, and some stereotypes are accurate and appropriate and some are inaccurate and filled with hate.

A poll showing hate filled stereotyping is not automatically equivalent with a poll showing appropriate stereotyping.

In this case one question shows inaccurate bias while the other shows well founded bias, even if it turns out this particular question is an exception to that bias.

Honestly bias is just ill-informed expectation. Well informed expectation has no negative connotation, so we don't call it bias. Having your well informed expectation turn out to be wrong in a single exception isn't and shouldn't be called bias.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by noxiousdog »

GreenGoo wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 3:51 pm Sure, and some stereotypes are accurate and appropriate and some are inaccurate and filled with hate.

A poll showing hate filled stereotyping is not automatically equivalent with a poll showing appropriate stereotyping.

In this case one question shows inaccurate bias while the other shows well founded bias, even if it turns out this particular question is an exception to that bias.

Honestly bias is just ill-informed expectation. Well informed expectation has no negative connotation, so we don't call it bias. Having your well informed expectation turn out to be wrong in a single exception isn't and shouldn't be called bias.
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Over 20 years ago, John Paul II said, "Today, almost half a century after publication of the encyclical, new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."
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"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by GreenGoo »

Great.

Let me know when American religious leaders catch up.

If you'd like, we can also travel back in time when religious organizations also housed some of the leading scientific minds of humanity and ask the question then too.
Last edited by GreenGoo on Wed May 15, 2019 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

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noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 3:26 pm
hepcat wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 3:16 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:46 pm
Alefroth wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:28 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 1:54 pm That's your bias showing.
How is it bias?
You assume it's Creationism because it's a priest/religion proposing a theory.

If someone asked you for your theory on creation, you'd (most likely.. I don't know your personal belief) tell them the Big Bang Theory without blinking an eye.
That bias is propagated primarily by religious appropriation of any form of the word "creation" though. Google the term "creation theory" and you'll see nothing but results dealing with creationism.
Of course it is. That's how bias works. It doesn't come out of nowhere.
Telling someone they're bias as you did in your reply without tempering it with an explanation that you don't mean it in a negative manner may, in fact, be taken that way. As I think Alefroth did.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by hepcat »

LordMortis wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 3:20 pm
hepcat wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 3:16 pm Google the term "creation theory" and you'll see nothing but results dealing with creationism.
I googled "big bang theory" and I saw nothing but results dealing with a TV show.
Ah, I forgot to translate "creation theory" from English into Mortisese.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

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That's how he meant it, hep.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Alefroth »

noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:46 pm
Alefroth wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:28 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 1:54 pm That's your bias showing.
How is it bias?
You assume it's Creationism because it's a priest/religion proposing a theory.

If someone asked you for your theory on creation, you'd (most likely.. I don't know your personal belief) tell them the Big Bang Theory without blinking an eye.
I assumed it was Creationism because it was called creation theory. If it had just mentioned the person by name I would have still thought it was Creationism. My belief in the beginning of the universe doesn't use the language of creation.

I was surprised to find the Big Bang theory was founded by a Catholic priest. I admit there is bias in that.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by noxiousdog »

hepcat wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 4:32 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 3:26 pm
hepcat wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 3:16 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:46 pm
Alefroth wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:28 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 1:54 pm That's your bias showing.
How is it bias?
You assume it's Creationism because it's a priest/religion proposing a theory.

If someone asked you for your theory on creation, you'd (most likely.. I don't know your personal belief) tell them the Big Bang Theory without blinking an eye.
That bias is propagated primarily by religious appropriation of any form of the word "creation" though. Google the term "creation theory" and you'll see nothing but results dealing with creationism.
Of course it is. That's how bias works. It doesn't come out of nowhere.
Telling someone they're bias as you did in your reply without tempering it with an explanation that you don't mean it in a negative manner may, in fact, be taken that way. As I think Alefroth did.
That's why I explained it without being snarky.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Alefroth »

hepcat wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 4:32 pm Telling someone they're bias as you did in your reply without tempering it with an explanation that you don't mean it in a negative manner may, in fact, be taken that way. As I think Alefroth did.
I almost replied that there is nothing wrong with that, but then I looked up bias just to make sure I was clear, and it's mostly defined as prejudice. That does seem wrong so I changed my reply.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

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My internet snark meter is about as precise as my ghost detection one.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by GreenGoo »

noxiousdog wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 4:39 pm
That's why I explained it without being snarky.
Snark is one of your best qualities.

Ok, you're never really very snarky, but you should be. Give it a try!
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by coopasonic »

hepcat wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 4:45 pm My internet snark meter is about as precise as my ghost detection one.
I am not sure a ghost detection snark meter is of much practical use.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

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Have you met the ghost of Mr. Fed?
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

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