Fundraising for 2019/2020: 12 Months Renewed - We are good until October 2020. Paypal Donation Link Here

Census 2020

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 62911
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:46 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:00 pm
CNN
The Supreme Court said Friday that it would take up a case this term to decide whether the Trump administration can add a citizenship question to the 2020 census.

A lower court had blocked the administration from adding the question, holding that Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross's decision to add the question was unlawful for a "multitude of independent reasons and must be set aside."
NPR
A second federal judge has issued a court order to block the Trump administration's plans to include a citizenship question on the 2020 census.

U.S. District Judge Richard Seeborg of California found that the administration's decision to add the question violated administrative law.

The judge also ruled that it was unconstitutional because it prevents the government from carrying out its mandate to count every person living in the U.S. every 10 years.

"In short, the inclusion of the citizenship question on the 2020 Census threatens the very foundation of our democratic system — and does so based on a self-defeating rationale," Seeborg wrote in a 126-page opinion released Wednesday.

Plans to add the question have already been halted by an earlier ruling in New York by U.S. District Judge Jesse Furman.

The Supreme Court is scheduled to hold a hearing about the New York ruling on April 23. This latest ruling will likely be appealed to the high court.

User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 9274
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: Census 2020

Post by Jaymann » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:59 pm

Are you a citizen of the United States?

___ Yes

___ No (Please report to the nearest INS Office)
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 62911
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:12 pm


User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 62911
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu May 30, 2019 1:34 pm

Skinypupy wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 1:23 pm
And for today's "No Shit, Sherlock" news, we have this: Files on deceased GOP strategist's drive confirm that adding a Census citizenship question was intended purely to give Republicans a political advantage. (Originally reported by the NY Times, but since that's paywalled, we'll go with this one instead.)
Thomas Hofeller, who died last August, concluded in a 2015 report that adding the question would produce the data needed to redraw political maps that would be "advantageous to Republicans and Non-Hispanic Whites," according to a court filing released Thursday.

Plaintiffs in one of the New York-based lawsuits over the question say that Hofeller later ghostwrote an early draft of the administration's request for the question and helped form a reason for adding the question to forms for the national head count.

The Trump administration has maintained it wants census responses to the question — "Is this person a citizen of the United States? — to better enforce Voting Rights Act protections for racial and language minorities.

But Hofeller's documents uncovered through a separate lawsuit suggest that administration officials were aware that including the question "would not benefit Latino voters, but rather would facilitate significantly reducing their political power," argue attorneys with the law firm Arnold & Porter, the ACLU and the New York Civil Liberties Union in a letter to U.S. District Judge Jesse Furman.
:ninja:

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 33206
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Census 2020

Post by El Guapo » Thu May 30, 2019 2:27 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 1:34 pm
Skinypupy wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 1:23 pm
And for today's "No Shit, Sherlock" news, we have this: Files on deceased GOP strategist's drive confirm that adding a Census citizenship question was intended purely to give Republicans a political advantage. (Originally reported by the NY Times, but since that's paywalled, we'll go with this one instead.)
Thomas Hofeller, who died last August, concluded in a 2015 report that adding the question would produce the data needed to redraw political maps that would be "advantageous to Republicans and Non-Hispanic Whites," according to a court filing released Thursday.

Plaintiffs in one of the New York-based lawsuits over the question say that Hofeller later ghostwrote an early draft of the administration's request for the question and helped form a reason for adding the question to forms for the national head count.

The Trump administration has maintained it wants census responses to the question — "Is this person a citizen of the United States? — to better enforce Voting Rights Act protections for racial and language minorities.

But Hofeller's documents uncovered through a separate lawsuit suggest that administration officials were aware that including the question "would not benefit Latino voters, but rather would facilitate significantly reducing their political power," argue attorneys with the law firm Arnold & Porter, the ACLU and the New York Civil Liberties Union in a letter to U.S. District Judge Jesse Furman.
:ninja:
What a great find, Isgrimnur!

User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 9274
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: Census 2020

Post by Jaymann » Thu May 30, 2019 2:51 pm

Some day historians are going to look back and use these cunts as an example of how a minority party stays in power.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>

malchior
Posts: 9355
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by malchior » Thu May 30, 2019 3:31 pm

Jaymann wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 2:51 pm
Some day historians are going to look back and use these cunts as an example of how a minority party stays in power.
They'd then figure out why they say, "Time to take a yuge Trump" after a big day watching soccer on the tri-vid.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 62911
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:20 pm

WaPo
President Trump asserted executive privilege Wednesday to shield documents about the administration’s decision to add a citizenship question to the 2020 Census, a move meant to try to undercut an expected vote by a House panel to hold his attorney general and commerce secretary in contempt for failing to turn over the materials to lawmakers.

A day earlier, the Justice Department had warned the House Oversight Committee that if it moved toward holding Attorney General William P. Barr in contempt, he would ask Trump to assert privilege to protect the materials. The committee, though, rejected his offer, and was preparing to vote Wednesday on a contempt finding when Trump followed through on Barr’s threat.
...
With the new development, House Oversight Committee Chairman Elijah E. Cummings (D-Md.) announced that he would delay the contempt vote scheduled for Wednesday morning until later in the day so that members could read the Justice Department letter.
...
He also questioned why Trump had waited to assert executive privilege on the brink of a contempt vote, given that the subpoenas in question were issued two months ago.
...
If the Oversight Committee contempt resolution is approved by the full House, Cummings would be empowered to ask a federal court to order Barr and Ross to comply with subpoenas that sought documents related to the 2020 Census decision and testimony from a senior Justice Department official.

User avatar
Jaymon
Posts: 1684
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:51 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by Jaymon » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:31 pm

I am curious about the penalty of declining to answer, as a protest against the citizenship question.
Bunnies like beer because its made from hops.

Jeff V
Posts: 32008
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: Nowhere you want to be.

Re: Census 2020

Post by Jeff V » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:44 pm

Google wrote:According to United States Code, Title 13 (Census), Chapter 7 (Offenses and Penalties), SubChapter II, if you're over 18 and refuse to answer all or part of the Census, you can be fined up to $100. If you give false answers, you're subject to a fine of up to $500.
So the way I read this is have your under-18 child fill out the form.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 62911
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:45 pm

That's conspiracy.

malchior
Posts: 9355
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by malchior » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:59 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:20 pm
WaPo
President Trump asserted executive privilege Wednesday to shield documents about the administration’s decision to add a citizenship question to the 2020 Census, a move meant to try to undercut an expected vote by a House panel to hold his attorney general and commerce secretary in contempt for failing to turn over the materials to lawmakers.

A day earlier, the Justice Department had warned the House Oversight Committee that if it moved toward holding Attorney General William P. Barr in contempt, he would ask Trump to assert privilege to protect the materials. The committee, though, rejected his offer, and was preparing to vote Wednesday on a contempt finding when Trump followed through on Barr’s threat.
...
With the new development, House Oversight Committee Chairman Elijah E. Cummings (D-Md.) announced that he would delay the contempt vote scheduled for Wednesday morning until later in the day so that members could read the Justice Department letter.
...
He also questioned why Trump had waited to assert executive privilege on the brink of a contempt vote, given that the subpoenas in question were issued two months ago.
...
If the Oversight Committee contempt resolution is approved by the full House, Cummings would be empowered to ask a federal court to order Barr and Ross to comply with subpoenas that sought documents related to the 2020 Census decision and testimony from a senior Justice Department official.
I wonder if the recent revelations that the census question was specifically cooked up to tilt the vote in the Republican direction played into this decision. They had been reluctant to invoke executive privilege before now.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 62911
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:54 pm

WaPo
A federal district judge in Maryland on Wednesday ruled that new evidence in the case of a census citizenship question merits additional consideration, opening the door for plaintiffs’ lawyers to request that an appeals court return the case to him.

Civil rights groups who had sued the government over its addition of a citizenship question to the 2020 Census had asked U.S. District Court Judge George J. Hazel to reconsider his ruling on whether the government was guilty of conspiracy and intent to discriminate after new evidence in the case emerged last month. Files discovered on hard drives of a deceased Republican redistricting strategist suggested he had communicated with the Trump administration about how to get the citizenship question onto the survey and that the strategist had determined that adding the question would create an electoral advantage for Republicans and non-Hispanic whites.

Hazel had ruled in April against the question, joining two other federal judges in finding that the government had violated administrative law when it added it last year. But in that ruling he did not find enough evidence to support plaintiffs’ claims that the government intended to discriminate against immigrants, Latinos and Asian Americans by adding the question, or that adding it was part of a conspiracy within the Trump administration to violate the constitutional rights of non-citizens and people of color.
...
At a hearing in Greenbelt, Md. on Tuesday, plaintiffs’ lawyers argued the new evidence was enough to prove a clear connection between the strategist, Thomas Hofeller, and Trump administration officials who pushed for the question to be added. Department of Justice lawyers at the hearing sought to discredit the new evidence, calling into question its authenticity.

The case is technically closed in Hazel’s court. It now resides with the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals, which can either return the case to Hazel or decide to rule regardless of his recommendation.

Hazel could have reversed his earlier decision; his ruling Wednesday does not definitively indicate how he would rule if the case is returned to him. But plaintiffs’ lawyers hailed it as a win.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 62911
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:49 am

NPR
The Trump administration appears to have missed its own deadline Monday to start the printing of paper forms and other mailings that will play a key role in next year's constitutionally mandated head count of every person living in the U.S.

As of Monday evening, the 2020 census materials did not appear to have been officially approved by the White House's Office of Management and Budget for printing, according to a website tracking OMB's review process.

In another sign that production has not begun, Justice Department attorneys told a federal judge in Maryland on Monday that the administration has not reached a final decision on whether it will try to make another case in court for adding a hotly contested citizenship question to census forms.
...
On Monday, President Trump said that his administration is continuing to look "very strongly" at delaying the census. Hours after the Supreme Court announced its decision last week to keep the citizenship question temporarily blocked, Trump tweeted that he wants to wait until the court has more time and information to "make a final and decisive decision.

User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 9274
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: Census 2020

Post by Jaymann » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:59 am

As opposed to an indecisive decision.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 62911
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:32 am

Pennsylvania
Pennsylvania's budget for the upcoming fiscal year won't include any state funds to help ensure a complete count in the 2020 Census next year, despite a recommendation from a state-appointed panel that about $1 per person — more than $12 million — should be allocated.

An undercount would impact billions the state receives in federal funds for dozens of programs.
...
Research estimates that in 2015, Pennsylvania lost $1,746 for every uncounted person in the 2010 Census, when examining the impact on five health and human services related programs, according to an analysis by George Washington University.
...
Spokespeople for Republican legislative leaders said they didn't see the issue as the state's.

malchior
Posts: 9355
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by malchior » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:06 pm

It doesn't hurt that the under count will mostly be poor, brown people.

User avatar
Defiant
Posts: 18090
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Tongue in cheek

Re: Census 2020

Post by Defiant » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:25 pm


User avatar
NickAragua
Posts: 4594
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:20 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Census 2020

Post by NickAragua » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:41 pm

Sometimes, even the sun shines on a dog's ass.

Although let's be honest, it's probably just because grampa twittenfuhrer fell asleep on his throne.

User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 19379
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California
Contact:

Re: Census 2020

Post by Pyperkub » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:35 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:49 am
NPR
The Trump administration appears to have missed its own deadline Monday to start the printing of paper forms and other mailings that will play a key role in next year's constitutionally mandated head count of every person living in the U.S.

As of Monday evening, the 2020 census materials did not appear to have been officially approved by the White House's Office of Management and Budget for printing, according to a website tracking OMB's review process.

In another sign that production has not begun, Justice Department attorneys told a federal judge in Maryland on Monday that the administration has not reached a final decision on whether it will try to make another case in court for adding a hotly contested citizenship question to census forms.
...
On Monday, President Trump said that his administration is continuing to look "very strongly" at delaying the census. Hours after the Supreme Court announced its decision last week to keep the citizenship question temporarily blocked, Trump tweeted that he wants to wait until the court has more time and information to "make a final and decisive decision.
My guess is that Trump is trying to figure out if he can release the Census with the Citizenship Question, and then issue Presidential Pardons to anyone who gets in legal trouble for doing so. It strikes me as something he would do.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 62911
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:41 pm

CNN
Contradicting both his Department of Justice and his secretary of Commerce, President Donald Trump vowed on Wednesday to keep fighting to have a citizenship question added to the 2020 census.

"We are absolutely moving forward, as we must," Trump said in a tweet.

The President's message suggested that he was either reacting to criticism from the right that the government had unnecessarily caved on the issue, or perhaps speaking past the parties involved in two lawsuits in an effort to energize his base on the issue. One example of the criticism Trump faced Tuesday: conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt sent out a tweet that he was "very surprised" that the President had "surrendered without a battle on this issue."

Trump disputed that characterization in his tweet Wednesday.

"The News Reports about the Department of Commerce dropping its quest to put the Citizenship Question on the Census is incorrect, or, to state it differently, FAKE!" the President wrote.
...
In addition, during a hearing Tuesday evening, a federal judge asked the Department whether the decision was "final" and the Department of Justice said that it was, according to plaintiff's lawyers participating in the call.
...
After the President sent his tweet Wednesday, Hazel called for a previously unscheduled telephonic hearing in the ongoing case.

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46980
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: Census 2020

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:43 pm

We need Russian bots to promote the idea that if there is no citizenship question, real MAGAs would boycott and not complete it.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 62911
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:51 pm

NBC News
President Donald Trump on Friday said he is looking at issuing an executive order to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census.

"We're thinking about doing that, we have four or five ways we can do it, it's one of the ways we're thinking about doing it very seriously," Trump said when asked about using an executive order to add the question.

"We can start the printing (of the census forms) now and maybe do an addendum after we get a positive decision, so we're working on a lot of things, including an executive order," he added.
...
Trump's comments came as Justice Department lawyers are scrambling to meet a Friday afternoon court deadline to come up with a legal pathway for including the question — a reversal that was spurred by an irate tweet from the president earlier this week urging officials to press forward despite a Supreme Court ruling and public statements from the Justice and Commerce departments that the question would not be included.
...
U.S. District Court Judge George Hazel of Maryland ordered Justice Department lawyers to state by 2 p.m. Friday whether the government is ending its quest or whether it intends to keep seeking a way to add the question. If they are still pushing to add the question, the judge said, the lawyers must submit a proposed schedule for further legal proceedings.
Image

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 62911
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:49 pm

WaPo
BREAKING: Government lawyers affirm administration will pursue adding citizenship question to 2020 Census, according to statement to Maryland judge. This is a developing story that will be updated.
:pop:

User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 13838
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Pac-12 Country

Re: Census 2020

Post by Skinypupy » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:20 pm

Read elsewhere that Trump basically said “I’ll just issue an executive order to get around the SCOTUS”

I’d love to say it doesn’t work that way, but who will hold him accountable at this point?
“Don’t tickle the wall clown.” - MST3K

malchior
Posts: 9355
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by malchior » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:02 pm

Skinypupy wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:20 pm
Read elsewhere that Trump basically said “I’ll just issue an executive order to get around the SCOTUS”

I’d love to say it doesn’t work that way, but who will hold him accountable at this point?
Skinypupy wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:20 pm
Read elsewhere that Trump basically said “I’ll just issue an executive order to get around the SCOTUS”

I’d love to say it doesn’t work that way, but who will hold him accountable at this point?
Exactly. We are watching the rule of law slowly slipping away and no one gives a damn. Sad!

malchior
Posts: 9355
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by malchior » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:02 pm

Skinypupy wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:20 pm
Read elsewhere that Trump basically said “I’ll just issue an executive order to get around the SCOTUS”

I’d love to say it doesn’t work that way, but who will hold him accountable at this point?
Exactly. We are watching the rule of law slowly slipping away and no one gives a damn. Sad!

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 21829
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: Census 2020

Post by Holman » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:57 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:43 pm
We need Russian bots to promote the idea that if there is no citizenship question, real MAGAs would boycott and not complete it.
There's already talk of blue-state MAGAs strategically boycotting the census.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 62911
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:09 pm

NBC News
A federal judge on Friday ordered that a case go forward on whether a citizenship question can be added to the 2020 census and said it will focus on whether the Trump administration was "steeped in discriminatory motive."

U.S. District Court Judge George Hazel's order could allow evidence from recently deceased Republican consultant Thomas Hoeffler to be introduced. Files discovered by his daughter showed that he played a key role in the Trump administration's decision to try to add the citizenship question and that it would aid GOP efforts to radically gerrymander legislative districts to disadvantage Democrats.
...
If the Commerce Department does come up with a new rationale, the groups that have opposed the question and who have prevailed in court so far "will be fully entitled to challenge the decision at that time," the government's court filing said.
...
For now, the Justice Department assured the Maryland judge, "the Department of Commerce and Census Bureau currently are enjoining from printing a census questionnaire that includes a citizenship question."

User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 19379
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California
Contact:

Re: Census 2020

Post by Pyperkub » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:20 pm

Given that Trump gave the game away, I'm not seeing that happen without pursuing a pardon strategy:
Speaking to reporters at the White House, Trump said you need the census citizenship question “for many reasons.”

“Number one, you need it for Congress — you need it for Congress for districting,”
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 34842
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:
Kraken’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Census 2020

Post by Kraken » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:54 pm

They need to cement their dominance while they have it, because if we do manage against all odds to oust them, they'll never get it back.

GungHo
Posts: 3782
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:15 am
Location: Second star to the right

Re: Census 2020

Post by GungHo » Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:04 am

Pyperkub wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:20 pm
Given that Trump gave the game away, I'm not seeing that happen without pursuing a pardon strategy:
Speaking to reporters at the White House, Trump said you need the census citizenship question “for many reasons.”

“Number one, you need it for Congress — you need it for Congress for districting,”
Interesting article at The Atlantic about this

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... on/593383/
OR
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.

-Hiccup

malchior
Posts: 9355
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by malchior » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:33 am

GungHo wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:04 am
Pyperkub wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:20 pm
Given that Trump gave the game away, I'm not seeing that happen without pursuing a pardon strategy:
Speaking to reporters at the White House, Trump said you need the census citizenship question “for many reasons.”

“Number one, you need it for Congress — you need it for Congress for districting,”
Interesting article at The Atlantic about this

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... on/593383/
I don't know if it was intentional but what I took away from this was how much damage Robert's has done covering for Trump. Now the precedent of the travel ban 'lying' redo has snowballed into the court giving them this redo that risks inflicting more damage on the system.
The Atlantic wrote:In today’s filing, the Justice Department cites the litigation over the president’s travel ban, in which the Supreme Court ultimately decided to consider only the final legal version of the ban and ignore Trump’s previous statements. Everyone living in the real world knew it was intended to fulfill the president’s campaign-trail promise to implement a Muslim ban, but the Supreme Court effectively said that as long as the government constructed a separate rationale that could pass legal muster, it was acceptable. Now, in the census case, the government wants the courts to once again ignore all of its previous statements and consider only some as-yet-unspecified rationale. In other words, the administration would like to be rewarded for lying.

malchior
Posts: 9355
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by malchior » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:21 am


User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 62911
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:42 am

Image

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 33206
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Census 2020

Post by El Guapo » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:35 am

malchior wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:02 pm
Skinypupy wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:20 pm
Read elsewhere that Trump basically said “I’ll just issue an executive order to get around the SCOTUS”

I’d love to say it doesn’t work that way, but who will hold him accountable at this point?
Skinypupy wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:20 pm
Read elsewhere that Trump basically said “I’ll just issue an executive order to get around the SCOTUS”

I’d love to say it doesn’t work that way, but who will hold him accountable at this point?
Exactly. We are watching the rule of law slowly slipping away and no one gives a damn. Sad!
While I hate to count on this SCOTUS for anything, I think the odds that such an executive order would stand would be low. There are pretty clear admin law rules around these changes, which were also at the core of the recent SCOTUS decision, which was basically, "This process rests on the approval process, and if we accept transparent lying about the reasons for a change, then these rules would mean nothing." An executive order would be an even more frontal assault.

Again, can't say for sure, but the odds of it holding up are low.

malchior
Posts: 9355
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by malchior » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:39 am

El Guapo wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:35 am
Again, can't say for sure, but the odds of it holding up are low.
The question isn't that the executive order holds up - it is that they are making noise that they should do it anyway no matter what.

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 33206
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Census 2020

Post by El Guapo » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:50 am

malchior wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:39 am
El Guapo wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:35 am
Again, can't say for sure, but the odds of it holding up are low.
The question isn't that the executive order holds up - it is that they are making noise that they should do it anyway no matter what.
Right, but we already know that Trump is lawless. And if Trump does something lawless and the courts react appropriately, and it doesn't happen, then there's no real crisis.

malchior
Posts: 9355
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by malchior » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:57 am

El Guapo wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:50 am
malchior wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:39 am
El Guapo wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:35 am
Again, can't say for sure, but the odds of it holding up are low.
The question isn't that the executive order holds up - it is that they are making noise that they should do it anyway no matter what.
Right, but we already know that Trump is lawless. And if Trump does something lawless and the courts react appropriately, and it doesn't happen, then there's no real crisis.
Yeah agreed - *if* it doesn't happen is the crux. My concern is based on the DOJ reaction to the ruling and Barr's supposed affinity for expansive Presidential power. Let's say they lose and go ahead - what stops them? We have a glimpse that the DOJ lawyers already ejected from the case and they're just replacing them. It sure looks like we are in uncharted territory here.

Jeff V
Posts: 32008
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: Nowhere you want to be.

Re: Census 2020

Post by Jeff V » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:02 pm

malchior wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:39 am
El Guapo wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:35 am
Again, can't say for sure, but the odds of it holding up are low.
The question isn't that the executive order holds up - it is that they are making noise that they should do it anyway no matter what.
The legal outcome probably matters little at this point -- as long as the noise and bluster continues, there will be people who believe the census will create immigration problems for themselves and avoid participating whether the question is on the form or not.

Post Reply