Fundraising for 2019/2020. 12 Month renewal is up Oct 21/2019. $382.44 USD of roughly $1700 USD (CDN conversion) as of Aug 13/2019. Paypal Donation Link Here

Immigration Policy

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 38420
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
hepcat’s avatar
Offline

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by hepcat » Mon May 20, 2019 10:26 am

em2nought wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 6:08 am
I kinda wish my friend's wife and her daughter had been forced to learn English before they arrived. It would be nice if they could do more than possibly work in a Thai restaurant.

Of course, from what I've seen I doubt they ever would have put forth the effort, and my buddy would be unhappily alone. I just hope they don't start watching Mrs. JeffV's shopping channel. :think:

I still think my idea for a dating site hooking up ugly Americans with adult foreign orphans who have no additional family to support has merit. :mrgreen:
The orange one buys most of his wives off something like that.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46345
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by LawBeefaroni » Mon May 20, 2019 12:42 pm

What are "adult foreign orphans"?

Do you mean "age of consent impoverished girls?" Or are "adult orphans" a thing now? I know someone who was orphaned at 62!
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 8752
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Jaymann » Mon May 20, 2019 4:34 pm

I'm wondering where Rip Jr. weighs in on pardoning war criminals.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>

User avatar
em2nought
Posts: 3471
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:48 am

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by em2nought » Mon May 20, 2019 7:16 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 12:42 pm
What are "adult foreign orphans"?

Do you mean "age of consent impoverished girls?" Or are "adult orphans" a thing now? I know someone who was orphaned at 62!
If she's available she qualifies. :mrgreen: I mean anyone who doesn't come with an extended family all requiring bling as in this photo from JeffV's thread of doom. LOL

Enlarge Image
Waiting for the tide to bring me a sail.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61067
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:43 pm

WaPo
The Trump administration is canceling English classes, recreational programs and legal aid for unaccompanied minors staying in federal migrant shelters nationwide, saying the immigration influx at the southern border has created critical budget pressures.

The Office of Refugee Resettlement has begun discontinuing the funding stream for activities — including soccer — that have been deemed “not directly necessary for the protection of life and safety, including education services, legal services, and recreation,” said U.S. Health and Human Services spokesman Mark Weber.

Federal officials have warned Congress that they are facing “a dramatic spike” in unaccompanied minors at the southern border and have asked Congress for $2.9 billion in emergency funding to expand shelters and care. The program could run out of money in late June, and the agency is legally obligated to direct funding to essential services, Weber said.

The move — revealed in an email an HHS official sent to licensed shelters last week, a message that has been obtained by The Washington Post — could run afoul of a federal court settlement and state licensing requirements that mandate education and recreation for minors in federal custody. Carlos Holguin, a lawyer who represents minors in a long-running lawsuit that spurred a 1997 federal court settlement that sets basic standards of care for children in custody, immediately slammed the cuts as illegal.

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46345
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:52 pm

Disgusting.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
stessier
Posts: 24355
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:30 pm
Location: SC

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by stessier » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:54 pm

The Office of Refugee Resettlement
I read that as The Office of Refugee Resentment on a quick scan.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles

User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 13735
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Zarathud » Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:17 pm

A real leader would be able to persuade the immigrants not to rush before the borders close. What a self-inflicted disaster.

A dumpster fire, as usual.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal. - Nixon
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 39706
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Smoove_B » Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:39 pm

It's always nice to see America making international news over immigration issues:
UN human rights experts* have expressed grave concerns about criminal charges brought against Scott Warren, a U.S. citizen who works for an aid organisation providing water and medical aid to migrants in the Arizona desert.

Warren’s trial began on 29 May 2019, and if found guilty he faces up to 20 years in jail.

“Providing humanitarian aid is not a crime. We urge the US authorities to immediately drop all charges against Scott Warren,” the experts said.
I'm breaking down, I'm burning out and it's not funny like on television

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61067
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:11 pm

NPR
On the day of his self-declared presidential campaign kickoff, President Trump is threatening to deport "millions" of immigrants in the United States illegally beginning "next week."

But what's known is far less definitive.

The administration is predicting that with increased help from Mexico, it will have more bed space at detention centers. So the administration is planning to prioritize going after recent arrivals who have not been showing up at court, according to an adviser to the Department of Homeland Security.

The enforcement action is not for people who have been in the country long term but is more focused on the people who just got to the country and skipped court dates.

User avatar
Max Peck
Posts: 7642
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:09 pm
Location: Down the Rabbit-Hole

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Max Peck » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:04 am

Meanwhile, on the concentration camp front:
Time and tide melt the snowman.

There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
-- The Doctor

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46345
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:03 pm

Another success! America is winning!



Oscar Alberto Martinez Ramirez, 25, died as he tried to bring his 23-month-old daughter, Angie Valeria, to safety and a new life in the U.S. Ramirez's wife, Tania Vanessa Avalos, says she watched from the shore as her husband and daughter were pulled away by a strong river current near the border crossing between Matamoros, Mexico, and Brownsville, Texas.

The small family was fleeing poverty in El Salvador and had secured a humanitarian visa in Mexico — but after spending two months in a migrant camp waiting to apply for asylum in the U.S., Martinez decided that they should try to cross the border on Sunday.

Spoiler for soul crushing photo of victims.
Spoiler:
Enlarge Image
The bodies of Oscar Alberto Martinez Ramirez and his nearly 2-year-old daughter Valeria lie on the bank of the Rio Grande in Matamoros, Mexico, where they were found Monday morning. They drowned while trying to cross the river to Brownsville, Texas. This photograph was first published in the Mexican newspaper, La Jornada.
Julia Le Duc/AP
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 60921
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by LordMortis » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:17 pm

I'm ill. I'm not sure if I really need to see that as a reminder of if I really don't need to see that because I can't cope.

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46345
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:30 pm

Correction on a detail:
A previous version of this story indicated the family had been at a migrant camp in Matamoros for two months. In fact, they were in Mexico for two months but arrived at Matamoros Sunday.

Tania Vanessa Ávalos, Oscar's wife and Angie Valeria's mother, told the newspaper her family had grown increasingly desperate as temperatures reached over 110 degrees. They had been in a migrant camp in Matamoros since Sunday, the newspaper said, citing Ávalos.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 39706
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Smoove_B » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:29 am

That time in America when HIghlights magazine spoke out:

I'm breaking down, I'm burning out and it's not funny like on television

User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 13359
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Pac-12 Country

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Skinypupy » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:48 am

Smoove_B wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:29 am
That time in America when HIghlights magazine spoke out:
Joining that time when Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, and Wells Fargo actually did something right
Bank of America Corp., the second-biggest U.S. bank, will stop lending to companies that run private prisons and detention centers.

“We have decided to exit the relationship’’ with companies that provide prison and immigration-detention services, Vice Chairman Anne Finucane said Wednesday in an interview. “We’ve done our due diligence that we said we would do at the annual meeting, and this is the decision we’ve made.’’

JPMorgan Chase & Co. took a similar step in March, breaking off its relationship with the industry after deciding it was too risky, and Wells Fargo & Co. is also halting loans to the industry. Protesters have been urging bank executives to back away from the business, and shares of several prison companies slumped last week after presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren tweeted about her plan to get rid of them.“The broader issues are the need for reforms in the criminal justice system and immigration,” Finucane said.
This timeline is weird.
“Don’t tickle the wall clown.” - MST3K

User avatar
stessier
Posts: 24355
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:30 pm
Location: SC

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by stessier » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:58 am

Smoove_B wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:29 am
That time in America when HIghlights magazine spoke out:

I worked with/for that guy before he took over the family business, as it were. I never knew his political leanings, but the compassion aspect doesn't surprise me.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles

User avatar
Grifman
Posts: 18084
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Grifman » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:49 pm

David Frum makes some good points in the article below:

- the system is failing because it was never designed to handle hundreds of thousands of asylum requests - the US doesn't have the resources to vet hundreds of thousands of refugee claims as the system is now set up
- the US does have a defined and working refugee policy, which has an assigned number of slots (yes, Trump has decreased that), but the nation has never had a discussion as to whether we are prepared to admit hundreds of thousands of refugees coming to the southern border.
- the current refugee program is also based upon truth - these people have been vetted and approved - there's a real question as to how many of the current asylum seekers are coming for credible reasons or just economic reasons.
- illegal immigration begets more illegal immigration as those within the US seek to bring in family members, increasing the problem over time

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... en/593143/

His position is this:
How can we make things better?

We have to stop enticing a million people a year to risk their lives and their children’s lives by gaming the U.S. asylum system.

The response of many people of goodwill—open the gates, let the asylum seekers in—will bump into the reality of millions more who will want to come. The more allowed in, the more who will gamble on forcing their way in after them, the more lives will be lost as they make their way toward the United States.

The asylum system is profoundly broken, and the only way to make it work is to begin with fundamental questions. If poverty, unemployment, crime, spousal abuse, and other non-state-imposed forms of human suffering justify an asylum claim, then at least 2 billion people on Earth are eligible if they can make it over the border.

If every asylum claim must be adjudicated by a quasi-judicial tribunal, then appealed, then enforced only after another quasi-judicial tribunal and another appeal, then the asylum system becomes an invitation for abuse, joined to a full-employment scheme for immigration lawyers.

This is not 1939. Virtually none of those trying to cross the Rio Grande are fleeing state-sponsored persecution, although many do face real hardship at home. Many are people living in a globalized world willing to brave big risks with their lives and money in hope of bettering their situation. Almost all of us in the United States are descended from people like that, so of course we sympathize. But the policies that made sense for the United States in 1890 do not make sense in 2020.

There’s room for some, but not for all who want to come. Awarding the prize to those who show up on the American doorstep only encourages the abuses of the people-smugglers.The more clearly the U.S. articulates its rules, and the more swiftly and certainly it enforces those rules, the more lives will be saved. Those who seek to change the rules by acquiescing in fictions about asylum are worsening the border crisis, inviting more deadly risk taking by migrants—and igniting more cynicism in this country about the accountability of the U.S. government to its own people.
Before we do anything, we really need to have a national conversation about how much immigration do we want. Are we prepared to take in hundreds of thousands of a asylum seekers on the southern border? That's a fair question to ask, and it's one that we need to answer before we answer anything else. If the answer is the number needs to be limited, then we need to programs to discourage the large numbers currently coming who will be turned away. If the answer is bring one, bring all, then we need to be able to deal with the results of that decision. Right now we are just muddling along because the real question has never been answered.

I think reasonable solution would be to set up a separate quota, agreed upon my Congress and the President (though probably not the current one) on a given number of Central American refugees to admit each year. People would be required to submit their applications in their home countries, and then a lottery would be held each year. Anyone coming to the border would not be admitted and turned away. Or course others hear may feel differently but we need to have that national conversation. The current policy isn't working.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton

User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 19061
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California
Contact:

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Pyperkub » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:13 am

A better question is how much immigration do we need?
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

User avatar
Default
Posts: 6002
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:01 pm
Location: Handling bombs.

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Default » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:51 am

Remember the Obama programs that encouraged potential immigrants to stay in their home countries? Trump canceled them because they were Obama's.

Just one of many chickens come home to roost.
"pcp, lsd, thc, tgb...it's all good." ~ Kraken

User avatar
NickAragua
Posts: 4442
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:20 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by NickAragua » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:38 am

Grifman wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:49 pm
Before we do anything, we really need to have a national conversation about how much immigration do we want. Are we prepared to take in hundreds of thousands of a asylum seekers on the southern border? That's a fair question to ask, and it's one that we need to answer before we answer anything else. If the answer is the number needs to be limited, then we need to programs to discourage the large numbers currently coming who will be turned away. If the answer is bring one, bring all, then we need to be able to deal with the results of that decision. Right now we are just muddling along because the real question has never been answered.

I think reasonable solution would be to set up a separate quota, agreed upon my Congress and the President (though probably not the current one) on a given number of Central American refugees to admit each year. People would be required to submit their applications in their home countries, and then a lottery would be held each year. Anyone coming to the border would not be admitted and turned away. Or course others hear may feel differently but we need to have that national conversation. The current policy isn't working.
Agreed in principle. Probably I would lean towards admitting more people rather than less. The reason being that the birth rate is below the replacement rate, so, given a few decades, we'll wind up like Japan, with a smaller number of younger people carrying hordes of geriatrics on their backs.

Also, we need to acknowledge the reality that southern (and not so southern) border businesses and individuals employ shit-tons of illegal immigrants for manual labor jobs that US citizens wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. Keeping in mind that forcing them to employ legal immigrants will greatly drive up prices of whatever they're producing (imagine the furor among millenials when the price of avocados goes up 4x because the guys picking them are all suddenly limited to 8 hour days, get weekends off and have to get paid for overtime).

However, that conversation cannot be had with the current administration.

User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 34102
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:
Kraken’s avatar
Offline

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Kraken » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:21 am

Default wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:51 am
Remember the Obama programs that encouraged potential immigrants to stay in their home countries? Trump canceled them because they were Obama's.

Just one of many chickens come home to roost.
Julian Castro's most successful hook is a 21st century Marshall Plan to develop that area -- which only works if you can control the graft and corruption first. Only some of Obama's development aid was actually going into development.

User avatar
naednek
Posts: 8966
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:23 pm
naednek’s avatar
Offline

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by naednek » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:15 pm

stessier wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:58 am
Smoove_B wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:29 am
That time in America when HIghlights magazine spoke out:

I worked with/for that guy before he took over the family business, as it were. I never knew his political leanings, but the compassion aspect doesn't surprise me.
Hey maybe Trump will get the message, I mean afterall, Highlights Magazine is at Trump's reading level...
hepcat - "I agree with Naednek"

User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 13359
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Pac-12 Country

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Skinypupy » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:37 pm

Mike Pence toured a facility today and did his best "everything is fine" routine. That's not particularly noteworthy.

However, take a closer look at the picture of the single guard.

The one with the box that someone literally took a sharpie and wrote "TOOTHPASTE" in giant letters on the side.



Clown. Shoes.
“Don’t tickle the wall clown.” - MST3K

User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 38420
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
hepcat’s avatar
Offline

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by hepcat » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:32 am

naednek wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:15 pm
Hey maybe Trump will get the message, I mean afterall, Highlights Magazine is at Trump's reading level...
It was...until Barron stopped helping him find what was wrong in those damn pictures. They're too hard!
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic

User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 13735
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Zarathud » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:55 pm

It’s the job of the President to come up with a request for Congress. His incompetency and hypocrisy is maddening.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal. - Nixon
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867

malchior
Posts: 8772
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by malchior » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:02 am


User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 26671
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana
Contact:
Blackhawk’s avatar
Online

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Blackhawk » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:50 pm

No-crisis actors!


(I'm kidding. I hope.)
[This space left intentionally blank.]

User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 38420
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
hepcat’s avatar
Offline

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by hepcat » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:02 pm

And Pence's office has stopped denying that the detention facility conditions were horrid. Instead, he's claiming he
“specifically instructed [Customs and Border Protection] to not clean up or sanitize the facility beyond what is routine so the American people could see how serious the crisis at our border is.”
:lol:
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic

malchior
Posts: 8772
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by malchior » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:00 pm

Lindsey Graham again folks.
“What I saw is a bunch of people who have been here before, broke the law before, and we’re not going to let them go,” he continued. “I don’t care if they have to stay in these facilities for 400 days, we’re not going to let those men go that I saw. It would be dangerous.”

“You say what,” Bartiromo asked, “to those people who are looking at these adult men, who are behind bars because they broke the law, they came into this country illegally?”

“All of them broke our law,” Graham replied. “Many of them have done it before. And we’re not going to let them go. This is not a concentration camp that I saw, it is a facility overwhelmed.”

malchior
Posts: 8772
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by malchior » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:24 am

BTW if you want to be shocked...the Trump nation response is Trump's tweet was not racist. In the end he tells them to COME BACK after they fix the countries they "came from".

See? Clearly not racist, he is not telling them to leave. He just wants them to have an educational moment
..like joining the peace corps or something.

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46345
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by LawBeefaroni » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:06 am

Trump is a typical German-born Euro nationalist. If he loves it so much, why doesn't move back?
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 38420
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
hepcat’s avatar
Offline

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by hepcat » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:11 am

malchior wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:24 am
BTW if you want to be shocked...the Trump nation response is Trump's tweet was not racist. In the end he tells them to COME BACK after they fix the countries they "came from".

See? Clearly not racist, he is not telling them to leave. He just wants them to have an educational moment
..like joining the peace corps or something.
His people are trying to use that excuse by highlighting the line in screen grabs in which he said they should come back, and declaring that he never said they should "go back"....although the screen grab they use includes the line in which he quite literally tells them to "go back".

Trump supporters aren't exactly the brightest lot.

There's a reason that googling "Trump defends tweet" and then "Obama defends tweet" results in a lot more for the former than the latter.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61067
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:09 am

WaPo
President Trump’s latest racist remarks, like many of his comments before them, can and will be used against him in court.

And if his losing record on immigration cases is any guide, they will be used effectively.
...
Smart lawyers combine the cumulative record with more mundane administrative law complaints, turning relatively routine cases into more serious Equal Protection Clause controversies. That gives judges greater license to probe the motives of the government.
...
In between the travel ban and the census came four rulings blocking Trump’s attempt to eliminate Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA), the program that shields from deportation young undocumented immigrants brought to the United States as children, each citing disparaging anti-immigrant remarks by the president.

In addition, three separate decisions citing Trump’s “shithole countries” comments helped block a plan by the administration to end temporary protected status for migrants from countries affected by natural or man-made disasters.

The administration’s action, still being appealed, would have jeopardized the legal presence in the United States of some 300,000 people from El Salvador, Haiti, Nicaragua and Sudan.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61067
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Isgrimnur » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:41 am

NPR
The Trump administration is planning changes to the U.S. citizenship test. The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services says it is revising the test to ensure that "it continues to serve as an accurate measure of a naturalization applicant's civics knowledge."

The test was introduced in 1986 and last revised in 2008. . In a USCIS statement, acting Director Ken Cuccinelli said, "Updating, maintaining, and improving a test that is current and relevant is our responsibility as an agency in order to help potential new citizens fully understand the meaning of U.S. citizenship and the values that unite all Americans."
...
Cuccinelli spoke with The Washington Post about changes to the U.S. citizenship test, which the USCIS plans to launch in December 2020 or early 2021. "Isn't everybody always paranoid that this is used for ulterior purposes?" Cuccinelli said. "Of course, they're going to be sorely disappointed when it just looks like another version of a civics exam. I mean that's pretty much how it's going to look."
:pop:

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46345
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by LawBeefaroni » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:52 am

My guess is that they add European history questions.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 8752
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Jaymann » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:07 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:52 am
My guess is that they add European history questions.
With emphasis on Germany and Italy in the 1930's.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>

Jeff V
Posts: 31455
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: Nowhere you want to be.

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Jeff V » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:48 pm

The civics exam merely tests the applicant's ability to remember the answers to 100 question listed in the book that gives all of the potential questions and answers. Of those 100, they are asked 10 and pass if they get most of them right. My wife knew the answers to all 100 questions -- she didn't know jack about civics though or how any of it applies to your average American. I don't expect revised questions will result in a more meaningful exercise.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61067
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:13 pm

Tell me what the rules are, and I’ll tell you how I play the game.


Jeff V
Posts: 31455
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: Nowhere you want to be.

Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Jeff V » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:41 pm

Grifman wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:49 pm
People would be required to submit their applications in their home countries, and then a lottery would be held each year. Anyone coming to the border would not be admitted and turned away. Or course others hear may feel differently but we need to have that national conversation. The current policy isn't working.
This is grossly underestimating the desperation these people feel. It's not like these people are reading articles in the newspaper, discovering they can make a lot more money up here, and say "let's do it!!!" and join a caravan. These are people whose lives are in danger from gang warfare, many who have already had everything that matters taken from them. Simply going home could mean death...and you expect these people to patient wait for a bureaucracy to take a year or more processing an application?

Climate change and overcrowding certainly won't help, either. The entire history of mankind involves displaced peoples seeking a sustainable living elsewhere, whether it's because of violence or if it's moving to where the food is. When people are happy and prospering, they tend not to uproot themselves to venture into the unknown.

The best option would be to first make sure there is a democratic government in place that we can work with then partner with another ally who is good at curtailing gang activity (we suck at it). This has to be followed up with business development grants and infrastructure improvement. Education is another investment need, and if climate change is devastating their crops, they might need food as well. Expecting these countries to lift themselves up by their own bootstraps isn't going to happen -- there needs to be a long term commitment on multiple fronts. Focusing on citizen security might pay the quickest dividend, but end goal of creating a prosperous nation could take decades.

It is very hard to convince politicians to commit to any project that has a duration longer than their current term. The easier answer would be to simply admit them...but there should be organizational resources in place to facilitate these people becoming prosperous, law-abiding, tax-paying citizens. Many larger cities have ethnic organizations in place that could assist (they may require more resources) and maybe there's opportunity for some smaller cities to become large cities by putting such resources into place.

Post Reply