The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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malchior
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior »

Kraken wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:39 pm
malchior wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:49 pm Take the debate last night, the only one up on the stage who got that they need to really work on their communications to the public was Williamson. Perhaps because she is a charlatan of Trump caliber but still the point is about right. The debate society for nerds isn't going to cut it. No one is going to remember M4A versus 'M4A for some who want it' or whatever variant wins out as a plank. They need to elevate away from the micro-policy into discussions about the moral direction of this country.
The purpose of these debates is for the large field to differentiate themselves before the primaries. They differ on policy. If they spent 2.5 hours agreeing that Trump is terrible, they would accomplish nothing. Democratic voters already know that Trump is terrible. Save that for the general.
Sure - but they better narrow the field down fast because these debates are all providing attack surface that the Republicans are going to use to cut these guys apart.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Jeff V »

malchior wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:04 pm
Kraken wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:39 pm
malchior wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:49 pm Take the debate last night, the only one up on the stage who got that they need to really work on their communications to the public was Williamson. Perhaps because she is a charlatan of Trump caliber but still the point is about right. The debate society for nerds isn't going to cut it. No one is going to remember M4A versus 'M4A for some who want it' or whatever variant wins out as a plank. They need to elevate away from the micro-policy into discussions about the moral direction of this country.
The purpose of these debates is for the large field to differentiate themselves before the primaries. They differ on policy. If they spent 2.5 hours agreeing that Trump is terrible, they would accomplish nothing. Democratic voters already know that Trump is terrible. Save that for the general.
Sure - but they better narrow the field down fast because these debates are all providing attack surface that the Republicans are going to use to cut these guys apart.
Did that happen with the Republican bingo card in 2016? I think at this point having a lot of different voices saying different things is an asset...the Republicans can't formulate a targeted defensive strategy if they don't know what the message is going to be. I think that was part of Clinton's undoing -- she was the heir apparent after losing out to Obama in 2008 and the elephants spent the next 8 years attacking everything she did, no matter how baseless the attacks. I'd rather keep them guessing for a while; let the field naturally diminish through the primary process.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Kraken »

malchior wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:04 pm
Kraken wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:39 pm
malchior wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:49 pm Take the debate last night, the only one up on the stage who got that they need to really work on their communications to the public was Williamson. Perhaps because she is a charlatan of Trump caliber but still the point is about right. The debate society for nerds isn't going to cut it. No one is going to remember M4A versus 'M4A for some who want it' or whatever variant wins out as a plank. They need to elevate away from the micro-policy into discussions about the moral direction of this country.
The purpose of these debates is for the large field to differentiate themselves before the primaries. They differ on policy. If they spent 2.5 hours agreeing that Trump is terrible, they would accomplish nothing. Democratic voters already know that Trump is terrible. Save that for the general.
Sure - but they better narrow the field down fast because these debates are all providing attack surface that the Republicans are going to use to cut these guys apart.
Trump's campaign strategy is already obvious: Democrats are socialists, and scary brown people. Doesn't matter who the Dems nominate or what policies s/he pushes -- Trump is not smart enough to debate policy, but he is smart enough not to try.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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Kraken wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:12 pmTrump's campaign strategy is already obvious: Democrats are socialists, and scary brown people. Doesn't matter who the Dems nominate or what policies s/he pushes -- Trump is not smart enough to debate policy, but he is smart enough not to try.
Yeah - this is the default Republican strategy. The danger is that Trump is just not afraid to tear the nation apart by just openly doing it at full throttle. He also will get worse as he potentially gets more desperate which means the DOJ could easily become a tool. Events both foreign and domestic are likely going to be abnormally bad next year.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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malchior wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:17 am
Kraken wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:12 pmTrump's campaign strategy is already obvious: Democrats are socialists, and scary brown people. Doesn't matter who the Dems nominate or what policies s/he pushes -- Trump is not smart enough to debate policy, but he is smart enough not to try.
Yeah - this is the default Republican strategy. The danger is that Trump is just not afraid to tear the nation apart by just openly doing it at full throttle. He also will get worse as he potentially gets more desperate which means the DOJ could easily become a tool. Events both foreign and domestic are likely going to be abnormally bad next year.
This is why any moderate Dem who isn't out for "radical socialist" programs could easily beat Trump next year. Take the candidate that is the least objectionable to most people, make sure they stay away from legalizing illegal immigration and anti gun talk and they win by a landslide.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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Scraper wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:35 am
malchior wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:17 am
Kraken wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:12 pmTrump's campaign strategy is already obvious: Democrats are socialists, and scary brown people. Doesn't matter who the Dems nominate or what policies s/he pushes -- Trump is not smart enough to debate policy, but he is smart enough not to try.
Yeah - this is the default Republican strategy. The danger is that Trump is just not afraid to tear the nation apart by just openly doing it at full throttle. He also will get worse as he potentially gets more desperate which means the DOJ could easily become a tool. Events both foreign and domestic are likely going to be abnormally bad next year.
This is why any moderate Dem who isn't out for "radical socialist" programs could easily beat Trump next year. Take the candidate that is the least objectionable to most people, make sure they stay away from legalizing illegal immigration and anti gun talk and they win by a landslide.
That would be the way to win. But it's not the Democratic Party Way. So we're going to get another November nailbiter barring some kind of fortuitous surprise.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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Scraper wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:35 am
malchior wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:17 am
Kraken wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:12 pmTrump's campaign strategy is already obvious: Democrats are socialists, and scary brown people. Doesn't matter who the Dems nominate or what policies s/he pushes -- Trump is not smart enough to debate policy, but he is smart enough not to try.
Yeah - this is the default Republican strategy. The danger is that Trump is just not afraid to tear the nation apart by just openly doing it at full throttle. He also will get worse as he potentially gets more desperate which means the DOJ could easily become a tool. Events both foreign and domestic are likely going to be abnormally bad next year.
This is why any moderate Dem who isn't out for "radical socialist" programs could easily beat Trump next year. Take the candidate that is the least objectionable to most people, make sure they stay away from legalizing illegal immigration and anti gun talk and they win by a landslide.
That seems incredibly naive. You actually think a Dem candidates actual stances matter in how Republicans frame them? Every lib is a socialist. Every Dem wants to take your guns. Every progressive wants to raise your taxes. That's the same message that's been on repeat for the past 20 years, regardless of the candidates actual stances on anything.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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malchior wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:04 pm
Kraken wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:39 pm
malchior wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:49 pm Take the debate last night, the only one up on the stage who got that they need to really work on their communications to the public was Williamson. Perhaps because she is a charlatan of Trump caliber but still the point is about right. The debate society for nerds isn't going to cut it. No one is going to remember M4A versus 'M4A for some who want it' or whatever variant wins out as a plank. They need to elevate away from the micro-policy into discussions about the moral direction of this country.
The purpose of these debates is for the large field to differentiate themselves before the primaries. They differ on policy. If they spent 2.5 hours agreeing that Trump is terrible, they would accomplish nothing. Democratic voters already know that Trump is terrible. Save that for the general.
Sure - but they better narrow the field down fast because these debates are all providing attack surface that the Republicans are going to use to cut these guys apart.
Isn't this what we hear every time there is a contested primary? [Party] needs to get behind a candidate or they're going to give [other party] too much ammunition! I think that's a particularly minor risk here where Trump is going to make up policy positions for whoever the D candidate is regardless of reality. I'm for letting the process play out and finding the best candidate, because I still don't know who that is.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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The convention isn't until the middle of next July. There's plenty of time for infighting now before the 3-month sprint to the election afterwards.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior »

msteelers wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:30 am
Scraper wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:35 am
malchior wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:17 am
Kraken wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:12 pmTrump's campaign strategy is already obvious: Democrats are socialists, and scary brown people. Doesn't matter who the Dems nominate or what policies s/he pushes -- Trump is not smart enough to debate policy, but he is smart enough not to try.
Yeah - this is the default Republican strategy. The danger is that Trump is just not afraid to tear the nation apart by just openly doing it at full throttle. He also will get worse as he potentially gets more desperate which means the DOJ could easily become a tool. Events both foreign and domestic are likely going to be abnormally bad next year.
This is why any moderate Dem who isn't out for "radical socialist" programs could easily beat Trump next year. Take the candidate that is the least objectionable to most people, make sure they stay away from legalizing illegal immigration and anti gun talk and they win by a landslide.
That seems incredibly naive. You actually think a Dem candidates actual stances matter in how Republicans frame them? Every lib is a socialist. Every Dem wants to take your guns. Every progressive wants to raise your taxes. That's the same message that's been on repeat for the past 20 years, regardless of the candidates actual stances on anything.
That framing is baked in to some extent. Independents have a basket of issues they care about. Unfortunately, we found out lack of character wasn't necessarily a dis-qualifier like many assumed. I think the point being made is that a milquetoast candidate has the best chance because there is less for an independent to latch onto to disqualify them. However, they still have to deal with Trump's bellicose nature and the fact that voters for some reason actually respond to it. So we probably need someone who is boring enough to not make middle America think the red revolution is upon us (as stupid as that is) but also forceful enough to take on Trump.

So far, the polling is pushing everyone towards Biden and I think it'll be a mistake. He just isn't the guy who can absorb blows from Trump and fight back. At least that is my impression. He has survived the attacks as the front runner so far but just isn't the force we need there. We know Biden. He is too conciliatory when we as a nation need a political war chief.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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msteelers wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:30 am
Scraper wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:35 am
malchior wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:17 am
Kraken wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:12 pmTrump's campaign strategy is already obvious: Democrats are socialists, and scary brown people. Doesn't matter who the Dems nominate or what policies s/he pushes -- Trump is not smart enough to debate policy, but he is smart enough not to try.
Yeah - this is the default Republican strategy. The danger is that Trump is just not afraid to tear the nation apart by just openly doing it at full throttle. He also will get worse as he potentially gets more desperate which means the DOJ could easily become a tool. Events both foreign and domestic are likely going to be abnormally bad next year.
This is why any moderate Dem who isn't out for "radical socialist" programs could easily beat Trump next year. Take the candidate that is the least objectionable to most people, make sure they stay away from legalizing illegal immigration and anti gun talk and they win by a landslide.
That seems incredibly naive. You actually think a Dem candidates actual stances matter in how Republicans frame them? Every lib is a socialist. Every Dem wants to take your guns. Every progressive wants to raise your taxes. That's the same message that's been on repeat for the past 20 years, regardless of the candidates actual stances on anything.
Sure the GOP will frame all Democrats as gun grabbers but nothing will get the NRA set out of the house and to the polls faster than a candidate that actually threatens guns.

It isn't a platform necessary to run on in this race and it will only serve to rile up the opposition. The last bastion of a lot of Trump voters is judicial appointments and the 2A implications. He's taken away bumpstocks and if he takes away suppressors they will be far less energized to get out to vote. Unless of course the Democratic candidate makes guns an issue.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:21 pmSure the GOP will frame all Democrats as gun grabbers but nothing will get the NRA set out of the house and to the polls faster than a candidate that actually threatens guns.
I'm not losing any sleep over the idea that there is a sizable portion of NRA members who will flock to the polls simply because Democrats start talking about gun control. Again, these people already will assume that the Dems will want to take their guns even if they never actually talk about it. That's why gun sales skyrocket under Democratic presidents, and current sales are down enough that they are calling it the "Trump Slump".
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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msteelers wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:47 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:21 pmSure the GOP will frame all Democrats as gun grabbers but nothing will get the NRA set out of the house and to the polls faster than a candidate that actually threatens guns.
I'm not losing any sleep over the idea that there is a sizable portion of NRA members who will flock to the polls simply because Democrats start talking about gun control. Again, these people already will assume that the Dems will want to take their guns even if they never actually talk about it. That's why gun sales skyrocket under Democratic presidents, and current sales are down enough that they are calling it the "Trump Slump".
But why make it a cornerstone of a platform? Everyone knows where they stand. Is it really something get needs the be put front and center?

Campaign platforms are for winning elections. They are not what a candidate has to do or not do once elected.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by msteelers »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:42 pm
msteelers wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:47 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:21 pmSure the GOP will frame all Democrats as gun grabbers but nothing will get the NRA set out of the house and to the polls faster than a candidate that actually threatens guns.
I'm not losing any sleep over the idea that there is a sizable portion of NRA members who will flock to the polls simply because Democrats start talking about gun control. Again, these people already will assume that the Dems will want to take their guns even if they never actually talk about it. That's why gun sales skyrocket under Democratic presidents, and current sales are down enough that they are calling it the "Trump Slump".
But why make it a cornerstone of a platform? Everyone knows where they stand. Is it really something get needs the be put front and center?

Campaign platforms are for winning elections. They are not what a candidate has to do or not do once elected.
I seem to remember gun control being a decent chunk of the policy debate leading up to the 2018 midterms, and that worked out pretty well for Democrats.

I also don't even know if I agree with the idea that they are making it the "cornerstone" of their platform. If we actually get to the point where gun control is the cornerstone of their platform, then I will agree with you that it was a stupid decision. But I don't think we are anywhere close to that.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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Zarathud wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:38 pm Democrats don’t have a political news network pushing a unified message, as much coordination with a donor network, or authoritarian party discipline. Without Fox, Koch institutions or RINO purges, the Democrats will regularly slip messaging discipline.
+1
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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gbasden wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:54 pm
Zarathud wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:38 pm Democrats don’t have a political news network pushing a unified message, as much coordination with a donor network, or authoritarian party discipline. Without Fox, Koch institutions or RINO purges, the Democrats will regularly slip messaging discipline.
+1
As a reminder, only 3.3 million watch Hannity, and that's the most popular show. over 9 million people watch ABC nightly news. CBS news, which is the worst rated of the majors, doubles Fox News prime time.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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noxiousdog wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:33 am
gbasden wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:54 pm
Zarathud wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:38 pm Democrats don’t have a political news network pushing a unified message, as much coordination with a donor network, or authoritarian party discipline. Without Fox, Koch institutions or RINO purges, the Democrats will regularly slip messaging discipline.
+1
As a reminder, only 3.3 million watch Hannity, and that's the most popular show. over 9 million people watch ABC nightly news. CBS news, which is the worst rated of the majors, doubles Fox News prime time.
The oldies at the bar watch ABC Nightly News news. It's like non-stop catastrophism and fear. Fires! Shootings! Highway disasters! Grisly murders! The world is at an end! Ugh.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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NPR
Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe has sued the Trump administration for what he calls his "unlawful" termination, arguing that his firing last year was the result of improper political interference by the president.

"It was Trump's unconstitutional plan and scheme to discredit and remove DOJ and FBI employees who were deemed to be his partisan opponents because they were not politically loyal to him," the complaint alleges.

Then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions dismissed McCabe in March 2018, only hours before his 50th birthday, when his full law enforcement pension would have vested. McCabe's filing argues that he is "entitled to his full law enforcement pension and all other benefits, privileges, and rights currently being withheld."
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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I heard about this on NPR this morning. That was truly a dick move on the part of the Trump administration. I really hope they reinstate his pension.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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Zarathud wrote:Democrats don’t have a political news network pushing a unified message, as much coordination with a donor network, or authoritarian party discipline. Without Fox, Koch institutions or RINO purges, the Democrats will regularly slip messaging discipline.
You forgot Alec, the unified legislative platform written by lobbyists.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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Pyperkub wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:02 am
Zarathud wrote:Democrats don’t have a political news network pushing a unified message, as much coordination with a donor network, or authoritarian party discipline. Without Fox, Koch institutions or RINO purges, the Democrats will regularly slip messaging discipline.
You forgot Alec, the unified legislative platform written by lobbyists.
American Legislative Exchange Council
The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) is a nonprofit organization of conservative state legislators and private sector representatives who draft and share model state-level legislation for distribution among state governments in the United States.
State's rights don't matter much when national organizations can pick them off piecemeal.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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Draining the swamp right into corporate coffers.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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Yes, that was always the point. "Drain the swamp" has always meant "Get rid of those corrupt politicians and civil servants and replace them with businessmen you can trust; believe me folks."
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House Judiciary moving forward on impeachment.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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msteelers wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:30 am
Scraper wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:35 am
malchior wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:17 am
Kraken wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:12 pmTrump's campaign strategy is already obvious: Democrats are socialists, and scary brown people. Doesn't matter who the Dems nominate or what policies s/he pushes -- Trump is not smart enough to debate policy, but he is smart enough not to try.
Yeah - this is the default Republican strategy. The danger is that Trump is just not afraid to tear the nation apart by just openly doing it at full throttle. He also will get worse as he potentially gets more desperate which means the DOJ could easily become a tool. Events both foreign and domestic are likely going to be abnormally bad next year.
This is why any moderate Dem who isn't out for "radical socialist" programs could easily beat Trump next year. Take the candidate that is the least objectionable to most people, make sure they stay away from legalizing illegal immigration and anti gun talk and they win by a landslide.
That seems incredibly naive. You actually think a Dem candidates actual stances matter in how Republicans frame them? Every lib is a socialist. Every Dem wants to take your guns. Every progressive wants to raise your taxes. That's the same message that's been on repeat for the past 20 years, regardless of the candidates actual stances on anything.
You're acting like Republican messaging is the only messaging that matters. If Democrat messaging re-emphasizes Republican messaging (single payer health care, legalize illegal immigrants, hardl ine left on gun control), then that's all to the Republican advantage. Moderate Democratic messaging can offset Republican messaging to a certain extent, while hard left Democratic messaging allows Republicans to say, "See, I told you so!"
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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Isgrimnur wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:53 pm NPR
Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe has sued the Trump administration for what he calls his "unlawful" termination, arguing that his firing last year was the result of improper political interference by the president.
USA Today
Federal prosecutors recommended seeking criminal charges against Andrew McCabe, the former deputy director of the FBI and a frequent target of criticism by President Donald Trump, according to people familiar with the decision Thursday.
...
The U.S. attorney in Washington, Jessie Liu, recommended moving forward with unspecified charges against McCabe, according to people familiar with the situation who were not authorized to comment publicly. McCabe's lawyers appealed that decision to Deputy Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen, who rejected their request, one of the people said. McCabe's lawyers were informed of that decision Thursday.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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House Intelligence Committee seeks information about potential cover up of a Intelligence Community whistle blower complaint.
The nation's top intelligence official is illegally withholding a whistleblower complaint, possibly to protect President Donald Trump or senior White House officials, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff alleged Friday.

Schiff issued a subpoena for the complaint, accusing acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire of taking extraordinary steps to withhold the complaint from Congress, even after the intel community's inspector general characterized the complaint as credible and of "urgent concern."

“A Director of National Intelligence has never prevented a properly submitted whistleblower complaint that the [inspector general] determined to be credible and urgent from being provided to the congressional intelligence committees. Never," Schiff said in a statement. "This raises serious concerns about whether White House, Department of Justice or other executive branch officials are trying to prevent a legitimate whistleblower complaint from reaching its intended recipient, the Congress, in order to cover up serious misconduct."

...

"The Committee can only conclude, based on this remarkable confluence of factors, that the serious misconduct at issue involves the President of the United States and/or other senior White House or Administration officials," Schiff wrote in a letter to Maguire on Friday.

The initial whistleblower complaint was filed last month, and Schiff indicated that it was required by law to be shared with Congress nearly two weeks ago. His subpoena requires the information to be turned over by Sept. 17 or else he intends to compel Maguire to appear before Congress in a public hearing on Sept. 19.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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Isgrimnur wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:47 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:53 pm NPR
Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe has sued the Trump administration for what he calls his "unlawful" termination, arguing that his firing last year was the result of improper political interference by the president.
USA Today
Federal prosecutors recommended seeking criminal charges against Andrew McCabe, the former deputy director of the FBI and a frequent target of criticism by President Donald Trump, according to people familiar with the decision Thursday.
...
The U.S. attorney in Washington, Jessie Liu, recommended moving forward with unspecified charges against McCabe, according to people familiar with the situation who were not authorized to comment publicly. McCabe's lawyers appealed that decision to Deputy Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen, who rejected their request, one of the people said. McCabe's lawyers were informed of that decision Thursday.
Lawfare has an interesting article pondering what is going on with this. While they don't pretend to know what actually happened, they do spell out some plausible scenarios. If nothing else, it's somewhat reassuring to believe that at least some components of the system are holding off the administrations desire to engage in politically-motivated prosecutions, even if the DoJ itself is going along with it.

On the Mystery of the McCabe Grand Jury
All of this is the background to whatever happened yesterday, when the grand jury met after McCabe’s lawyers had been informed that an indictment would be sought—and yet no indictment emerged.

It is hard to express what an incredibly rare occurrence a grand jury refusal to return what is called a “true bill” would be, if that is indeed what took place. It may not be quite accurate that, as the saying goes, a prosecutor can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich, but the sentiment gets at something real. The Bureau of Justice Statistics indicates that between October 2013 and September 2014—the last year these data were publicly available—the department investigated almost 200,000 cases and declined to prosecute roughly 31,500. Of the latter category, just five of those cases were declined because a grand jury returned no true bill—a percentage so small that the Bureau of Justice Statistics declines to actually write it out. Between October 2010 and September 2011, and October 2011 and September 2012, the proportion of declined cases explained by grand juries returning no true bills is a momentous 0.1 percent.
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malchior
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior »

Report on the Lewandowski hearing today. I had the hearing on and this captures it well. The boil down from it and past hearings is that it is clear that the GOP will not cooperate with lawful oversight. The Republicans clearly coordinated to obstruct the hearing with Lewandowski. The whole thing was a farce and exposed that this administration, GOP Congressional members, and anyone who profits from this Trumpocracy are essentially lawless at this point. It was absolutely disgusting.

I was going to also berate the Democrats for being *completely fucking unprepared for this entirely predictable behavior* but Rick Wilson gets it right.



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YellowKing
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by YellowKing »

Basically the GOP are the Harlem Globetrotters and Democrats are the Washington Nationals.
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pr0ner
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by pr0ner »

YellowKing wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:27 pm Basically the GOP are the Harlem Globetrotters and Democrats are the Washington Nationals Generals.
Fixed that for you.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Octavious »

His entire opening statement was obviously fed to him. I about smashed my phone reading it.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by YellowKing »

Thanks pr0ner.

I just watched the Harlem Globetrotters episode of The Goldbergs too. For shame!
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo »

I think the House needs to start using its inherent contempt powers, or at least very seriously threatening to do so. It's the main tool they have in this area that's not contingent on other governmental bodies acting (e.g., the executive branch, Senate, etc.). They have filed suit in several areas as well, which is well and good, but they don't control the calendar (or the outcome) on those.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Pyperkub »

El Guapo wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:42 pm I think the House needs to start using its inherent contempt powers, or at least very seriously threatening to do so. It's the main tool they have in this area that's not contingent on other governmental bodies acting (e.g., the executive branch, Senate, etc.). They have filed suit in several areas as well, which is well and good, but they don't control the calendar (or the outcome) on those.
They needed to 5 months ago, at least.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by pr0ner »

Yeah, if the House Dems won't hold him in contempt, why even bother moving forward. It will only embolden Trump and his cronies.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Jaymann »

pr0ner wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:46 pm
YellowKing wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:27 pm Basically the GOP are the Harlem Globetrotters and Democrats are the Washington Nationals Generals.
Fixed that for you.
I thought it was intentional. You know, how the Nationals win a lot of games but blow the big one.
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malchior
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior »

It is hard to state how ridiculous Corey made the Democrats look. Nadler spent all his time getting that asshole to answer a question about whether he was at a particular meeting. It was ridiculous. I'm not going to hold my breath on inherent contempt. These guys are lost in another era where there are still norms. I'll keep beating on that drum but they need war chiefs and they have leadership who are simply too nostalgic or out of touch for the fight in front of them. Trump was literally laughing at them from the sidelines as he cheered on this mess.

Cicciline straight up asked for a contempt ruling and Nadler kicked the can. Weak. Feckless. No plan. No strategy. They are out of their depth.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Holman »

It's not like Nadler can charge contempt by just announcing "I Charge Thee!" during the hearing. There's legal paperwork involved.

In the long run, it might prove best that an asshole like Lewandowski went first. I have to assume that whoever was setting the schedule knew what to expect.
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