The Trump Impeachment Thread

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YellowKing
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by YellowKing »

You guys do realize that despite how bad this looks for all involved, the GOP has successfully shaped the narrative that there had to be a quid pro quo for there to be any wrongdoing.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

YellowKing wrote:You guys do realize that despite how bad this looks for all involved, the GOP has successfully shaped the narrative that there had to be a quid pro quo for there to be any wrongdoing.
Unfortunately for them, many people in the administration have already testified that there was a quid pro quo. So now they’re changing the narrative to be that the process is illegitimate. It’s the usual bad-faith, change the goalposts strategy the GOP has been using for everything Trump.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Sure, he tried to kill him with a gun, but he missed. So it’s okay, man. Why are you pressing charges?
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Holman »

YellowKing wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:57 pm You guys do realize that despite how bad this looks for all involved, the GOP has successfully shaped the narrative that there had to be a quid pro quo for there to be any wrongdoing.
The quid pro quo is solidly established. The defense now has shifted to "All of diplomacy is quid pro quo, so what's the problem?"

Republicans are doubling down on process because it's clear that the "quo" was Trump's personal political interest rather than the national interest (which is *exactly* what the Founders feared and wrote about extensively).

There has never been a clearer case for impeachment and removal.

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YellowKing
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by YellowKing »

I think - and I hope this is not wishful thinking - that the public testimony starting next week is REALLY going to start shifting public opinion. I have to believe that considering how far the needle has moved with just closed door testimony. The administration really hasn't been successful at all in defending the inquiry or the allegations, and it's only going to get harder when there are news clips running 24/7 of these folks saying on video in front of Congress what we've only read about.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Holman wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:18 pm
YellowKing wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:57 pm You guys do realize that despite how bad this looks for all involved, the GOP has successfully shaped the narrative that there had to be a quid pro quo for there to be any wrongdoing.
The quid pro quo is solidly established. The defense now has shifted to "All of diplomacy is quid pro quo, so what's the problem?"
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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I've been sharing this news article from the future (that I threw together) with Republican friends:
Today, on his first day in office, President Joe Biden announced via Twitter a far reaching investigation into the Trump family and their overseas investments.

In announcing the probe, the president said that his son, Hunter Biden, would be his personal overseas representative, working with foreign governments in this investigation. He stated that all countries with Trump properties should launch their own investigations of the Trump Organization, or face serious consequences in their relationship with the United States, including suspension of foreign aid, trade agreements, and economic sanctions.

When asked if this was a part of official US foreign policy under his new administration, Biden said, “Hell, no! It has absolutely nothing to do with foreign policy, it is for purely partisan political purposes. If Trump can leverage the power of the US government to investigate my family for personal reasons, then I can investigate his,” said Biden. “Consider it payback.”

Further asked about having his son, not a government official involved, Biden said, “Former President Trump used his personal attorney to investigate me rather than using official channels, and appointed his daughter and son-in-law who had no government experience to government positions. I know that some will say that Hunter can’t get a security clearance, but neither could Jared Kushner, so this seems entirely appropriate and reasonable to me.”

Biden went on to say, “I don’t know of any reason why anyone should object. When the Republican Senate refused to convict President Trump, it became quite clear to me that things have changed in Washington since I last held office, and that there are new standards of presidential conduct and ethics. Many accused me of being to old to run for President, but today I am showing that you can, indeed, teach an old dog new tricks.”

Senate Minority Leader Republican Mitch McConnell and House Minority Leader Republican Mark Meadows were asked for comments but stated that they would be “unavailable for the foreseeable future”.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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[Stannis]
too
[/Stannis]
Jaymann
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Trump wanted Barr to hold news conference saying no laws were broken in call with Ukrainian leader
President Trump wanted Attorney General William P. Barr to hold a news conference declaring that the commander in chief had broken no laws during a phone call in which he pressed his Ukrainian counterpart to investigate a political rival, though Barr ultimately declined to do so, people familiar with the matter said.

The request from Trump traveled from the president to other White House officials and eventually to the Justice Department. The president has mentioned Barr’s demurral to associates in recent weeks, saying he wished Barr would have held the news conference, Trump advisers say.
Huh, who knew that Barr had a line he wouldn't cross...
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malchior
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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I don't know how much to read into that story. He could have pushed back on it for many reasons.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Oh boy, Giuliani's starting to stir again. I can't wait to see what he screws up next.

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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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What planet does he live on?!? What does his attorney have to do with fuckall?!? Oh, right he is used to personal shield lawyers like Cohen and Guiliani.

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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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You know that dirt I was illegally digging up? Could you just spill the beans and say you did something bad to help a fellow rich white guy out?

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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Roman »

Saw on news today that Graham floated the very real possibility that Sondland's testimony reversal was because he switched teams and was working with the democrats.

Edited to add:

Here is video from Fox News - FFWD to 2:25 where he says it:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/lindsey-g ... operatives
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Graham acting like a kompromat-ed hypocrite? It must be Thursday.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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I just don't get how the guy that was ripping Trump apart in the beginning now will do anything to protect Trump. I seriously think Trump has some kind of dirt on him. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Octavious wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:07 pm I just don't get how the guy that was ripping Trump apart in the beginning now will do anything to protect Trump. I seriously think Trump has some kind of dirt on him. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.
I wonder, but it could also be driven by having to face the Republican primary electorate in a few years.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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El Guapo wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:11 pm
Octavious wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:07 pm I just don't get how the guy that was ripping Trump apart in the beginning now will do anything to protect Trump. I seriously think Trump has some kind of dirt on him. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.
I wonder, but it could also be driven by having to face the Republican primary electorate in a few years.
I see that aspect of it, but what about the idea that if trump is gone that part of the electorate that is so staunchly pro-trump just goes back to whatever hole it's been in for the last 40 years? What do these 'trump at all costs' type Republikans do then? The never trumpers, ie the ppl who were actual conservatives before trump and not just simply (R) now bc of trump, won't take them back (at least I don't think they will in the most immediate election following trump's ousting) and they'll be sunk.

IMHO I think in post trump America the trumpkins will just go back to not caring or more accurately, just not voting, the way they did pro-trump. Or their influence will be diluted across multiple post-trump descendants. It just doesn't seem like there is any thinking in the Rs that goes beyond trump...like they think this is it not just it for the Rs in particular but America in general.
OR
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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GungHo wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:42 pm
El Guapo wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:11 pm
Octavious wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:07 pm I just don't get how the guy that was ripping Trump apart in the beginning now will do anything to protect Trump. I seriously think Trump has some kind of dirt on him. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.
I wonder, but it could also be driven by having to face the Republican primary electorate in a few years.
I see that aspect of it, but what about the idea that if trump is gone that part of the electorate that is so staunchly pro-trump just goes back to whatever hole it's been in for the last 40 years? What do these 'trump at all costs' type Republikans do then? The never trumpers, ie the ppl who were actual conservatives before trump and not just simply (R) now bc of trump, won't take them back (at least I don't think they will in the most immediate election following trump's ousting) and they'll be sunk.

IMHO I think in post trump America the trumpkins will just go back to not caring or more accurately, just not voting, the way they did pro-trump. Or their influence will be diluted across multiple post-trump descendants. It just doesn't seem like there is any thinking in the Rs that goes beyond trump...like they think this is it not just it for the Rs in particular but America in general.
You act as if pro-Trumpers came from no where. Many of them ARE historical Republicans and will still be there when Trump is gone. I think the real question is where/who will they turn to next since they seem to be largely fed up with their current leadership. I frankly see DJT, Jr trying to carry on his father's mantle - I would not be surprised to see him run if his father is re-elected rather than repudiated at the polls.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Grifman wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:17 pm
GungHo wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:42 pm
El Guapo wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:11 pm
Octavious wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:07 pm I just don't get how the guy that was ripping Trump apart in the beginning now will do anything to protect Trump. I seriously think Trump has some kind of dirt on him. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.
I wonder, but it could also be driven by having to face the Republican primary electorate in a few years.
I see that aspect of it, but what about the idea that if trump is gone that part of the electorate that is so staunchly pro-trump just goes back to whatever hole it's been in for the last 40 years? What do these 'trump at all costs' type Republikans do then? The never trumpers, ie the ppl who were actual conservatives before trump and not just simply (R) now bc of trump, won't take them back (at least I don't think they will in the most immediate election following trump's ousting) and they'll be sunk.

IMHO I think in post trump America the trumpkins will just go back to not caring or more accurately, just not voting, the way they did pro-trump. Or their influence will be diluted across multiple post-trump descendants. It just doesn't seem like there is any thinking in the Rs that goes beyond trump...like they think this is it not just it for the Rs in particular but America in general.
You act as if pro-Trumpers came from no where. Many of them ARE historical Republicans and will still be there when Trump is gone. I think the real question is where/who will they turn to next since they seem to be largely fed up with their current leadership. I frankly see DJT, Jr trying to carry on his father's mantle - I would not be surprised to see him run if his father is re-elected rather than repudiated at the polls.

I will not be shocked if Ivanka becomes the first female president. Appalled, but not shocked. Her pedigree will hold the Trumpster base, with some limited appeal beyond them by being 15% less awful. But let's worry about defeating one Trump at a time.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Grifman »

Kraken wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:15 pm
I will not be shocked if Ivanka becomes the first female president. Appalled, but not shocked. Her pedigree will hold the Trumpster base, with some limited appeal beyond them by being 15% less awful. But let's worry about defeating one Trump at a time.
No, that won't fly. The attraction of Trump is how he campaigns, the name calling, the "triggering" of liberals, the "draining the swamp" thing. That's not Ivanka, she'd never campaign that way. But DJT Jr, he plays it just like his dad, he's a clone when it comes to campaigning, he loves getting down in the toilet like his father. If it's a choice between Ivanka and Junior, Junior wins hands down.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Junior is Beast Rabban.

Ivanka is Feyd-Rautha.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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If tRump gets reelected we can expect that he will be in for life and whomever of his brood survives the battle for control after his death will take the seat next. All of the suggesting we should wait for the election noise, to me, suggests they feel they have that on lock down already. The more the Republicans cling to him in spite of the obvious abuses the more I am convinced we have already ceased being a true democracy.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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And if we do manage to oust him after that, we have to worry about Barron coming back in a few years with three full grown dragons and burning it all down.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Remus West wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:50 am If tRump gets reelected we can expect that he will be in for life and whomever of his brood survives the battle for control after his death will take the seat next. All of the suggesting we should wait for the election noise, to me, suggests they feel they have that on lock down already. The more the Republicans cling to him in spite of the obvious abuses the more I am convinced we have already ceased being a true democracy.
This is over the top exaggeration. Our government is dysfunctional right now, but we’re not about to anoint anyone to a lifelong term as POTUS. More likely than not, Trump will get reelected, and he will be even worse in his second term than he was in his first. But that’s all he’ll get: another 4 years of fucking things up.

Then we can happily over correct and run into the arms of AOC. :roll:
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Kurth wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:49 am
Remus West wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:50 am If tRump gets reelected we can expect that he will be in for life and whomever of his brood survives the battle for control after his death will take the seat next. All of the suggesting we should wait for the election noise, to me, suggests they feel they have that on lock down already. The more the Republicans cling to him in spite of the obvious abuses the more I am convinced we have already ceased being a true democracy.
This is over the top exaggeration. Our government is dysfunctional right now, but we’re not about to anoint anyone to a lifelong term as POTUS. More likely than not, Trump will get reelected, and he will be even worse in his second term than he was in his first. But that’s all he’ll get: another 4 years of fucking things up.

Then we can happily over correct and run into the arms of AOC. :roll:
It is probably exageration but look at the damage done in less than 1 term. I don't think it is impossible to envision. It should be.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Kurth wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:49 am This is over the top exaggeration. Our government is dysfunctional right now, but we’re not about to anoint anyone to a lifelong term as POTUS. More likely than not, Trump will get reelected, and he will be even worse in his second term than he was in his first. But that’s all he’ll get: another 4 years of fucking things up.

Then we can happily over correct and run into the arms of AOC. :roll:
One would hope you are right but from without is sure looks like deck stacking and dealing from the bottom is going on. I don't put Trump outside of winning. I don't put the legal system changing enough to protect him after four years outside of the realm of possibility. I don't see it as unlikely that he will hand pick his successor. If the economy doesn't take a complete poverty inducing dump on those the re-elect potus, then it's not unreasonable to think his successor could win and Trump would expect to pull his puppet strings openly and publicly through media until the day he dies. All the while, concentrating Moscow style mafia corruption and power concentration.

I don't think it's inevitable but I see the path being a very real viable one. We have two things going for us. Technology make us "agile". Retaining power isn't easy when things fluctuate outside of the power so much. On the other side, we're huge. Retaining power over 300,000,000+ people isn't easy under even a facade of freedom.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by malchior »

It isn't just the damage he does. It'll be how he wins if he wins. It isn't hard to envision the Democratic nominee being named in an investigation by the DOJ last minute or some crazy revelation that some Trump crony in the government will cook up. We don't even have to wonder if it is possible because it already happened once.

Also, even if the election is clean Trump is very unpopular. He will almost certainly lose the popular vote again except this time it'll likely be even more lopsided. The electoral college will again fail to prevent ruin and we'll have the House in Democratic hands again. Maybe the Senate too. But there will also be a President who is going to be emboldened to smash more norms.

On top, the Republicans are slamming more and more unfit judges into Federal courts. How long does that firewall survive? It has held so far but the GOP is in collapse and they are running the Russia/Poland/Hungary/Turkey playbook to maintain their grip on power. Democracy is indeed at risk. We can't be blind to that possibility. Especially since the risk is much higher than people want to realize.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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malchior wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:19 pm It isn't hard to envision the Democratic nominee being named in an investigation by the DOJ last minute or some crazy revelation that some Trump crony in the government will cook up. We don't even have to wonder if it is possible because it already happened once.
More 'We don't have to wonder because it's already underway.' *cough* Hunter Biden *cough*
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Kurth wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:49 am
Remus West wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:50 am If tRump gets reelected we can expect that he will be in for life and whomever of his brood survives the battle for control after his death will take the seat next. All of the suggesting we should wait for the election noise, to me, suggests they feel they have that on lock down already. The more the Republicans cling to him in spite of the obvious abuses the more I am convinced we have already ceased being a true democracy.
This is over the top exaggeration. Our government is dysfunctional right now, but we’re not about to anoint anyone to a lifelong term as POTUS. More likely than not, Trump will get reelected, and he will be even worse in his second term than he was in his first. But that’s all he’ll get: another 4 years of fucking things up.

Then we can happily over correct and run into the arms of AOC. :roll:
This is a real worry. Even before the 2016 election, Trump publicly refused to commit to recognizing and abiding by the outcome of the vote. He has already stated that he should be able to run for a third term. He has no issue with (and has had some success with) simply ignoring the law and counting on flunkies in the executive branch and GOP loyalists in Congress from insulating him from the consequences. He's not only attacked the media verbally, he's taken official actions to hit the economic bottom line of companies that own media outlets that are critical of him. Oh, and don't forget that he faces the very real prospect of criminal charges after he leaves office; given that the presidency is his best shield against remaining in jail, that gives him a powerful incentive to do anything he can to give himself any chance at remaining in office indefinitely (or, as a Plan B, ensuring that can ensure that a flunky (say, Don Jr.) succeeds him when he leaves offices).

People should absolutely be worried about a Trump-led autocracy. It's not that he'll declare himself Emperor at some point. It's that he'll just flout the law in an ever increasingly-brazen way and count on GOP allies to prevent him from suffering any consequences (when he has the benefit of a constitutional structure which allows the GOP to block most actions with a relatively small percentage of voting support). Along the way he'll continue to undermine institutions to the point where there will be few left able to stand up to him. He won't change the law, he'll just make it irrelevant.

In short the danger is that in six years we'll be well on the road to becoming Hungary or Poland.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Kurth wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:49 am
Remus West wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:50 am If tRump gets reelected we can expect that he will be in for life and whomever of his brood survives the battle for control after his death will take the seat next. All of the suggesting we should wait for the election noise, to me, suggests they feel they have that on lock down already. The more the Republicans cling to him in spite of the obvious abuses the more I am convinced we have already ceased being a true democracy.
This is over the top exaggeration. Our government is dysfunctional right now, but we’re not about to anoint anyone to a lifelong term as POTUS.
How would we stop it?
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Pyperkub »

Alefroth wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:07 pm
Kurth wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:49 am
Remus West wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:50 am If tRump gets reelected we can expect that he will be in for life and whomever of his brood survives the battle for control after his death will take the seat next. All of the suggesting we should wait for the election noise, to me, suggests they feel they have that on lock down already. The more the Republicans cling to him in spite of the obvious abuses the more I am convinced we have already ceased being a true democracy.
This is over the top exaggeration. Our government is dysfunctional right now, but we’re not about to anoint anyone to a lifelong term as POTUS.
How would we stop it?
The military will prevent a coup of this sort - their oaths are to the Constitution, not the President and while some would support a 3rd term and be willing to abrogate their Oaths, that will be a very, very minor portion. Even if he managed to declare Martial Law somehow, he won't get enough Military support for anything of the kind without the Supremes also ruling in favor of it, and that won't happen either.

Far more likely would be President Don Jr/Jared/Ivanka somehow.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by hepcat »

I doubt he has that much support outside his base. The military sure as hell doesn't like him, that's for sure.
Covfefe!
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Pyperkub wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:25 pm
Alefroth wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:07 pm
Kurth wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:49 am
Remus West wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:50 am If tRump gets reelected we can expect that he will be in for life and whomever of his brood survives the battle for control after his death will take the seat next. All of the suggesting we should wait for the election noise, to me, suggests they feel they have that on lock down already. The more the Republicans cling to him in spite of the obvious abuses the more I am convinced we have already ceased being a true democracy.
This is over the top exaggeration. Our government is dysfunctional right now, but we’re not about to anoint anyone to a lifelong term as POTUS.
How would we stop it?
The military will prevent a coup of this sort - their oaths are to the Constitution, not the President and while some would support a 3rd term and be willing to abrogate their Oaths, that will be a very, very minor portion. Even if he managed to declare Martial Law somehow, he won't get enough Military support for anything of the kind without the Supremes also ruling in favor of it, and that won't happen either.

Far more likely would be President Don Jr/Jared/Ivanka somehow.
Russia can supply some warm bodies with trigger fingers. They have a few dozen million they could spare.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
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El Guapo
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Pyperkub wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:25 pm
Alefroth wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:07 pm
Kurth wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:49 am
Remus West wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:50 am If tRump gets reelected we can expect that he will be in for life and whomever of his brood survives the battle for control after his death will take the seat next. All of the suggesting we should wait for the election noise, to me, suggests they feel they have that on lock down already. The more the Republicans cling to him in spite of the obvious abuses the more I am convinced we have already ceased being a true democracy.
This is over the top exaggeration. Our government is dysfunctional right now, but we’re not about to anoint anyone to a lifelong term as POTUS.
How would we stop it?
The military will prevent a coup of this sort - their oaths are to the Constitution, not the President and while some would support a 3rd term and be willing to abrogate their Oaths, that will be a very, very minor portion. Even if he managed to declare Martial Law somehow, he won't get enough Military support for anything of the kind without the Supremes also ruling in favor of it, and that won't happen either.

Far more likely would be President Don Jr/Jared/Ivanka somehow.
It wouldn't have to be a coup, and there wouldn't have to be martial law. He'd have his lawyers draw up some bullshit argument about why he could run for a third term, then he'd do it, and then he'd refuse to leave. Then we'd be in a position where we would have to count on the military and/or police to actively go in and arrest him. Which is a bad situation in and of itself.

That said, I do think that a Don Jr. type situation is more likely in the short term. Remember that as Putin was consolidating his power and gutting Russian democracy (such as it was) he had a flunky (Medvedev) run for President and serve a term while Putin himself technically served as 'prime minister'. Which gave Putin four more years to undermine Russian democratic institutions to the point where he could openly serve as president indefinitely.
Black Lives Matter.
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Pyperkub
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Pyperkub »

El Guapo wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:04 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:25 pm
Alefroth wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:07 pm
Kurth wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:49 am
Remus West wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:50 am If tRump gets reelected we can expect that he will be in for life and whomever of his brood survives the battle for control after his death will take the seat next. All of the suggesting we should wait for the election noise, to me, suggests they feel they have that on lock down already. The more the Republicans cling to him in spite of the obvious abuses the more I am convinced we have already ceased being a true democracy.
This is over the top exaggeration. Our government is dysfunctional right now, but we’re not about to anoint anyone to a lifelong term as POTUS.
How would we stop it?
The military will prevent a coup of this sort - their oaths are to the Constitution, not the President and while some would support a 3rd term and be willing to abrogate their Oaths, that will be a very, very minor portion. Even if he managed to declare Martial Law somehow, he won't get enough Military support for anything of the kind without the Supremes also ruling in favor of it, and that won't happen either.

Far more likely would be President Don Jr/Jared/Ivanka somehow.
It wouldn't have to be a coup, and there wouldn't have to be martial law. He'd have his lawyers draw up some bullshit argument about why he could run for a third term, then he'd do it, and then he'd refuse to leave. Then we'd be in a position where we would have to count on the military and/or police to actively go in and arrest him. Which is a bad situation in and of itself.

That said, I do think that a Don Jr. type situation is more likely in the short term. Remember that as Putin was consolidating his power and gutting Russian democracy (such as it was) he had a flunky (Medvedev) run for President and serve a term while Putin himself technically served as 'prime minister'. Which gave Putin four more years to undermine Russian democratic institutions to the point where he could openly serve as president indefinitely.
SCOTUS would still have to bless the 3rd term, which won't happen, and if he tries to stay w/o SCOTUS blessing, it is a *coup*. If anything, it will be a different Trump family member running in 2024.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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LordMortis
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by LordMortis »

El Guapo wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:04 pm That said, I do think that a Don Jr. type situation is more likely in the short term. Remember that as Putin was consolidating his power and gutting Russian democracy (such as it was) he had a flunky (Medvedev) run for President and serve a term while Putin himself technically served as 'prime minister'. Which gave Putin four more years to undermine Russian democratic institutions to the point where he could openly serve as president indefinitely.
Trump is 73 and senile. Golf may make him active and psychosis may mitigate stress but he's not living 10 more years. That much travel and the foods he eats will see to that.
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El Guapo
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Pyperkub wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:06 pm
El Guapo wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:04 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:25 pm
Alefroth wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:07 pm
Kurth wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:49 am
Remus West wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:50 am If tRump gets reelected we can expect that he will be in for life and whomever of his brood survives the battle for control after his death will take the seat next. All of the suggesting we should wait for the election noise, to me, suggests they feel they have that on lock down already. The more the Republicans cling to him in spite of the obvious abuses the more I am convinced we have already ceased being a true democracy.
This is over the top exaggeration. Our government is dysfunctional right now, but we’re not about to anoint anyone to a lifelong term as POTUS.
How would we stop it?
The military will prevent a coup of this sort - their oaths are to the Constitution, not the President and while some would support a 3rd term and be willing to abrogate their Oaths, that will be a very, very minor portion. Even if he managed to declare Martial Law somehow, he won't get enough Military support for anything of the kind without the Supremes also ruling in favor of it, and that won't happen either.

Far more likely would be President Don Jr/Jared/Ivanka somehow.
It wouldn't have to be a coup, and there wouldn't have to be martial law. He'd have his lawyers draw up some bullshit argument about why he could run for a third term, then he'd do it, and then he'd refuse to leave. Then we'd be in a position where we would have to count on the military and/or police to actively go in and arrest him. Which is a bad situation in and of itself.

That said, I do think that a Don Jr. type situation is more likely in the short term. Remember that as Putin was consolidating his power and gutting Russian democracy (such as it was) he had a flunky (Medvedev) run for President and serve a term while Putin himself technically served as 'prime minister'. Which gave Putin four more years to undermine Russian democratic institutions to the point where he could openly serve as president indefinitely.
SCOTUS would still have to bless the 3rd term, which won't happen, and if he tries to stay w/o SCOTUS blessing, it is a *coup*. If anything, it will be a different Trump family member running in 2024.
It *probably* won't happen, but I wouldn't guarantee that. Especially bearing in mind that by 2024 a President Trump has probably at least replaced Ginsburg.
Black Lives Matter.
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Grifman
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Grifman »

You all need to read Fiona Hills' testimony from her deposition. She spanked the Republicans up again and again.

1) She was asked about Ukrainian interference. She said, you mean like the interference from Giuliani's Ukrainian American friends that got our ambassador fired?

2) She was asked about Ukrainian contacts with the Clinton campaign. She then went on to say many nations try to set up contacts with candidates because they don't know who is going to win. She said that she could name Ukrainians who tried to contact many of the Republican primary candidate campaigns, including Rubio and Bush (she knew this because she had friends that worked on these campaigns). She asked if they wanted to know about these also.

3) One Republican went on and on about some Politico article. She wondered why he cared so much about this and asked if he worked for Politico.

4) She also mentioned a meeting with Sondland who brought up the need for a Ukrainian statement about an investigation into the "energy sector". Bolton immediate shut the meeting down and walked out.

5) She also mentioned how she had received a number of threats since agreeing to testify and she knows of others who have experienced the same.

She doesn't suffer fools lightly.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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