The Trump Impeachment Thread

[malchior]

I haven't seen a Mitt justification for not voting to convict on obstruction but even then he is the first Senator to ever vote to remove a President of his own party. It was significant even if it was incomplete.

[Smoove_B]

My understanding is that he didn't vote for obstruction related to his likely belief that a President has the ability to control information related to their own administration (documents, staffers, etc...) but a President doesn't have the right to use their office for personal gain. Again, I don't know that, I'm just interpreting.

[Kurth]

Is it wrong to hope for a stroke?

Spending time doing something you enjoy is never wrong.

If that were only true . . .

[Kurth]

My understanding is that he didn't vote for obstruction related to his likely belief that a President has the ability to control information related to their own administration (documents, staffers, etc...) but a President doesn't have the right to use their office for personal gain. Again, I don't know that, I'm just interpreting.

That's my understanding as well. This obstruction charge was always pretty weak. It's not like they were bringing in the firing of Comey and all that earlier stuff -- which, IMHO, was a much stronger set of facts on which to base an obstruction charge.

[Holman]

My understanding is that he didn't vote for obstruction related to his likely belief that a President has the ability to control information related to their own administration (documents, staffers, etc...) but a President doesn't have the right to use their office for personal gain. Again, I don't know that, I'm just interpreting.

That's my understanding as well. This obstruction charge was always pretty weak. It's not like they were bringing in the firing of Comey and all that earlier stuff -- which, IMHO, was a much stronger set of facts on which to base an obstruction charge.

Congress has the legal right to subpoena documents and witnesses. The WH categorically refused all requests and never even articulated any claim of privilege. It was a complete defiance of Congress' Constitutional authority.

What is that if not obstruction?

[Zarathud]

Kirk Douglas: I am Spartacus!
GOP: I am Trump!

[Grifman]

And he is off already!

I'll guarantee you that if Trump is re-elected, Don Jr. will run for president in 2024 and win the Republican nomination. And he might run even if Trump Sr. loses.

[Alefroth]

I expect Trump to dump Pence and add Ivanka to the ticket. Get the dynasty going.

[malchior]

I agree and he isn't going to just add them. I expect no one else will be allowed to run.

[hepcat]

I expect Trump to dump Pence and add Ivanka to the ticket. Get the dynasty going.

If she weren't his daughter, he'd marry her and make her first lady, I've heard....

[LordMortis]

I heard he's attracted to beautiful and wants to grab her by the pussy and he can do that because he's a star. He can do anything.

[malchior]

Trump unleashes fury at Prayer Breakfast

FWIW the details packed into this article are amazing. The whole thing is worth a read. I'm snipping parts out but the whole thing is context unleashed as well. The ending is depressing and accurate as well. It counts on the American people being apathetic. It is a good bet nowadays.

President Donald Trump unleashed his fury against those who tried to impeach him at a prayer breakfast Thursday, a day after his acquittal by the Senate.

“As everybody knows, my family, our great country and your president have been put through a terrible ordeal by some very dishonest and corrupt people,” Trump said at the annual National Prayer Breakfast in Washington. He spoke from a stage where he was joined by congressional leaders, including Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who led the impeachment charge against him.

“They have done everything possible to destroy us and by so doing very badly hurt our nation,” said Trump, who triumphantly held up copies of two newspapers with huge “ACQUITTED!” headlines as he took the stage.

It was a whiplash message in contrast to the speakers who came before him, including keynote speaker and Harvard professor Arthur Brooks, who had described a “crisis of contempt and polarization” in the nation and urged those gathered to ”love your enemies.”

“I don’t know if I agree with you,” Trump said, and then he proceeded to demonstrate it.

“I don’t like people who use their faith as justification for doing what they know is wrong,” he said in an apparent reference to Utah Sen. Mitt Romney, a longtime Trump critic who was the only Republican to vote for Trump’s removal.

“Nor do I like people who say ‘I pray for you’ when you know that is not so,’” he said, in a reference to Pelosi.

His comments, including his usual campaign litany of economic boasting, was a clear sign that the post-impeachment Trump is emboldened like never before as he barrels ahead in his reelection fight with a united Republican Party behind him.

...

The president told confidants during the trial that he was impressed not just by the robust defense offered by his lawyers, but by the TV interviews offered by GOP senators outside the chamber, according to three White House aides and Republicans close to the West Wing were not authorized to discuss private conversations and spoke on condition of anonymity.

He crowed to advisers about the loyalty being shown to him and predicted the show of force bodes well for party enthusiasm in November’s election, the people said.

“I have never seen the Republican Party as Strong and as Unified as it is right now. Thank you!” Trump tweeted during the trial.

Trump has benefited from a new class of Republicans in Congress who have proved to be more partisan than their predecessors. Party members also know that Trump rains retribution on those who cross him. For all of Trump’s talk about how Democrats stick together, he’s got the Republicans in his fist.

...

Trump’s sky-high approval ratings within his own party acted as a deterrent that kept nearly all Republicans from breaking ranks. The fear was palpable among GOP senators worried not just about being the target of an angry tweet but about a Trump-backed primary challenger or a revolt among strong Republican supporters.

Still personally stung by impeachment, Trump is betting that he can sell his acquittal to the American people as a vindication, that he can activate his supporters and mollify even his skeptics in the center. Democrats are left with the more challenging task of explaining the details of the Ukraine case to the American people, and the White House believes Trump’s less complicated message will prevail.

....

For Trump, there was one overriding message to draw from his acquittal: Even at a time of maximum political peril, it’s his Republican Party.

Trump avoided talk of impeachment in his State of the Union address on Tuesday night. By the next day, he was already moving to use impeachment as a 2020 rallying cry.

....

Still, most Republicans have grudgingly stuck with him, through the revelations of the “Access Hollywood” tape, in which he was heard boasting about sexually assaulting women, and Charlottesville, where he defended white supremacists during a racial clash in the Virginia college town, as well as Helsinki, where he sided with Russia’s Vladimir Putin over U.S. intelligence agencies about Moscow’s 2016 election interference.

Now, they are giving him the victory he’s been waiting for and lashing their fates to his like never before.

Throughout the impeachment process, Trump drew satisfaction as Republican senators, many of whom opposed his long-shot candidacy and still dismiss him in private, overwhelmingly defended him and defied convention, tradition and public opinion polling in the process.

[Holman]

It was a whiplash message in contrast to the speakers who came before him, including keynote speaker and Harvard professor Arthur Brooks, who had described a “crisis of contempt and polarization” in the nation and urged those gathered to ”love your enemies.”

“I don’t know if I agree with you,” Trump said, and then he proceeded to demonstrate it.

Luke 6:27-28
“But I say to you that hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you."

President of Evangelical America disagrees with Jesus.

EDIT: Trump's entire ethos is a rejection of the Sermon on the Mount.

[malchior]

The Trump post-impeachment presser is on. He came out to wild applause so...guessing it was populated mostly with family members of Senators kept hostage during impeachment. Happy to finally bask in freedom with the great leader! He is extemporaneously speaking....this will go well.

Ah a fine headline for the papers --

It was the Mueller report. It was Russia...Russia...Russia...it was bullshit!

If I hadn't fired Comey, I might not be standing here today.

There is a full airing of grievances happening as well. This is a pity party, celebration, and festivus all in one.

He just admitted to the high crime he was just acquitted of! And they laughed. There are no consequences.

This captures an aspect of the absurdity of this 'ramble' pretty well - he also talked at length about Scalise getting shot. Bizarre shit, folks.

[Holman]

Good thread here.



Trump is unloading on his enemies (whom he calls "evil") and working without a script. It's insane.

He has already hinted that they're working on responses to those enemies.

[malchior]

I've now heard a President call the Speaker of the House 'a horrible person'. He called a former FBI director a 'sleazebag'. He called Mueller 'scum'. He said the word 'bullshit' on tv.

Yeah...Nancy ripping up his speech was a total breach of decorum. I'm so sick of these hypocrites.

[LawBeefaroni]

Well, they already made the case that anything he does to ensure 2020 victory can't be a crime because he believes his re-election to be in the best interest of the nation. Surely anyone trying to deny him the presidency is treasonous. Night of the long knives (in tiny hands) is probably coming.

[Smoove_B]

Yep. You wanted insane racist grandpa behind the wheel? Well, here he comes. I have a feeling in another or month or so we're going to look back on this speech and remember how we all laughed, not knowing exactly how bad it was going to get. Making it to November seems like an impossible task. Re-election still unthinkable.

[malchior]

I watched this ramble in horror. It was literally him showing his power. If you supported Trump, he'll talk positively about you on national tv. If you opposed him, he'll slander you. This is only the beginning. Within hours of his impeachment they were punishing NY for its sanctuary law. It is going to be strongman shit here on out. Day after day.

[Holman]

Vox has a transcript of the rambling idiocy.

[Holman]

Donald Trump Jr tweeted today:

Likelihood of Nancy Pelosi praying for Trump is about the same as the likelihood of Satan running around quoting the Scriptures.

Satan appears directly in one episode in the New Testament: the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness.

In it, Satan quotes scripture.

[malchior]

You almost would feel bad for him if he wasn't an evil, narcissistic pile of human garbage - he seemed genuinely surprised Scalise's wife cared about him...

[Alefroth]

Yep. You wanted insane racist grandpa behind the wheel? Well, here he comes. I have a feeling in another or month or so we're going to look back on this speech and remember how we all laughed, not knowing exactly how bad it was going to get. Making it to November seems like an impossible task. Re-election still unthinkable.

Who's laughing, seriously? It made me feel ill. It sounded like it could be a scene out of an upcoming Godfather movie.

[Alefroth]

Donald Trump Jr tweeted today:

Likelihood of Nancy Pelosi praying for Trump is about the same as the likelihood of Satan running around quoting the Scriptures.

Satan appears directly in one episode in the New Testament: the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness.

In it, Satan quotes scripture.

He sounds religious to people who like to think they are religious.

[hepcat]

Well, they already made the case that anything he does to ensure 2020 victory can't be a crime because he believes his re-election to be in the best interest of the nation.

I have to wonder (hope?) Dershowitz lives long enough to regret that line of defense. From what I've ready, very few (if any) legal experts agree with him.

[Smoove_B]

Who's laughing, seriously? It made me feel ill. It sounded like it could be a scene out of an upcoming Godfather movie.

"in an insane world", one can only laugh, as if everything is "a joke"

[YellowKing]

Depressingly, the best we can hope for at this point is that Trump does something so egregious that the public and Congress turn on him. Unfortunately, I honestly have no idea what that would be at this point.

We're definitely at that point in The Handmaid's Tale in which we're all looking around going, "They can't do this, can they?"

[Smoove_B]

Depressingly, the best we can hope for at this point is that Trump does something so egregious that the public and Congress turn on him. Unfortunately, I honestly have no idea what that would be at this point.

Do we want to know what's more egregious than holding children in cages, separated from their family?

[gameoverman]

I'm not so impressed with Romney. It's a whole lot easier to go against your party when you know your vote won't change things. And as for him suffering political consequences, all I want to know is which ones? What viable political goals did he have before that are impossible to achieve now? He gets to claim to be a martyr for doing what his conscience tells him is the right thing and sacrifice nothing for it.

As for Trump's words now, yup that's what his people want from him. That's what got him elected. Why would he be different now? Unless the Democrat candidates get their shiat together there will be four more years of this. All this time and effort wasted on an impeachment effort that never was going to work rather than focusing on winning the election, not a smart move.

[Archinerd]

.

[Zaxxon]

As for Romney, kudos and all, but let's not go overboard. He voted once to acquit, once to convict. Not exactly going all-in.

[LawBeefaroni]

All this time and effort wasted on an impeachment effort that never was going to work rather than focusing on winning the election, not a smart move.

More focused in-fighting? It's probably a good thing.

[Alefroth]

All this time and effort wasted on an impeachment effort that never was going to work rather than focusing on winning the election, not a smart move.

Focusing is rather vague. What should they have done instead of 'wasting time' with impeachment?

[noxiousdog]

As for Romney, kudos and all, but let's not go overboard. He voted once to acquit, once to convict. Not exactly going all-in.

He's the first senator ever to vote to remove a man of his own party from office. That's pretty significant.

[Zaxxon]

As for Romney, kudos and all, but let's not go overboard. He voted once to acquit, once to convict. Not exactly going all-in.

He's the first senator ever to vote to remove a man of his own party from office. That's pretty significant.

Yes. And yet he couldn't go all-in with the overwhelming evidence. Come on. No one voted to acquit because they honestly thought either charge was lacking.

[noxiousdog]

As for Romney, kudos and all, but let's not go overboard. He voted once to acquit, once to convict. Not exactly going all-in.

He's the first senator ever to vote to remove a man of his own party from office. That's pretty significant.

Yes. And yet he couldn't go all-in with the overwhelming evidence. Come on. No one voted to acquit because they honestly thought either charge was lacking.

I'm not sure Trump obstructed justice with regard to the Ukraine. Heck, he made it obvious with the transcript er abridged version he turned over.

[Zaxxon]

All those blocked testimonies were totally fine, too.

[em2nought]

I expect Trump to dump Pence and add Ivanka to the ticket. Get the dynasty going.

I like this ticket better, arghhhhh matey

[noxiousdog]

As for Romney, kudos and all, but let's not go overboard. He voted once to acquit, once to convict. Not exactly going all-in.

He's the first senator ever to vote to remove a man of his own party from office. That's pretty significant.

Yes. And yet he couldn't go all-in with the overwhelming evidence. Come on. No one voted to acquit because they honestly thought either charge was lacking.

Would you rather he voted for neither of them?

[Isgrimnur]

NY Times Opinion, Sen Sherrod Brown (D-OH)

For the stay-in-office-at-all-cost representatives and senators, fear is the motivator. They are afraid that Mr. Trump might give them a nickname like “Low Energy Jeb” and “Lyin’ Ted,” or that he might tweet about their disloyalty. Or — worst of all — that he might come to their state to campaign against them in the Republican primary. They worry:

“Will the hosts on Fox attack me?”

“Will the mouthpieces on talk radio go after me?”

“Will the Twitter trolls turn their followers against me?”

My colleagues know they all just might. There’s an old Russian proverb: The tallest blade of grass is the first cut by the scythe. In private, many of my colleagues agree that the president is reckless and unfit. They admit his lies. And they acknowledge what he did was wrong. They know this president has done things Richard Nixon never did. And they know that more damning evidence is likely to come out.

So watching the mental contortions they perform to justify their votes is painful to behold: They claim that calling witnesses would have meant a never-ending trial. They tell us they’ve made up their minds, so why would we need new evidence? They say to convict this president now would lead to the impeachment of every future president — as if every president will try to sell our national security to the highest bidder.

I have asked some of them, “If the Senate votes to acquit, what will you do to keep this president from getting worse?” Their responses have been shrugs and sheepish looks.

They stop short of explicitly saying that they are afraid. We all want to think that we always stand up for right and fight against wrong. But history does not look kindly on politicians who cannot fathom a fate worse than losing an upcoming election. They might claim fealty to their cause — those tax cuts — but often it’s a simple attachment to power that keeps them captured.