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Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Enough
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Enough »

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Fireball
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Fireball »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:21 pm
Fireball wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:22 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:11 am
Fireball wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:16 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:10 am
Fireball wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:04 am
as counted by the Congress on January 4, 2020.
What is they decide not to certify the results? Can they do that?

Do we trust them not to?
Who certifies what results?
Well...
Fireball wrote:provided he does not receive 270 Electoral College votes as counted by the Congress on January 4, 2020.
Congress certifies the results of the electoral college.


JANUARY 6, 2017 / 12:17 PM / 4 YEARS AGO
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Congress on Friday certified the Electoral College vote that gave Republican Donald Trump his victory in the contentious 2016 presidential election after a raucous half-hour joint session punctuated by Democratic challenges.
I get that it is largely a formality but as we have seen, formalities and norms are out the window and nothing can be taken for granted now. So what happens if they [Congress] don't pass the formality of certifying the results [of the electoral college vote]?
The Constitution says "The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted." So Congress can't really stop this from happening. I really don't get what you're trying to assert would/could happen here.
From the 2016 article:
None of the representatives [objecting] had the backing of a senator, which would have allowed them to suspend the joint session and allow the House and Senate to meet separately to debate the objections.
So it sounds like there is a mechanism for Congress to delay the count/outcome. The assertion being that it is another front from which the GOP/Trump could attack an election result.
When the votes are counted before Congress, if a member of the House and a member of the Senate both object to accepting the Electoral Votes from a state, a vote must be held on whether to reject the votes. Both Houses have to cast majority votes in favor of rejection for the votes to be set aside. The chances of this happening are, again, close to nil, absent a major breach of law or established protocols.
Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:17 am
Zarathud: The sad thing is that Barak Obama is a very intelligent and articulate person, even when you disagree with his views it's clear that he's very thoughtful. I would have loved to see Obama in a real debate.
Me: Wait 12 years, when he runs for president. :-)

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El Guapo
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by El Guapo »

Fireball wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:53 pm


When the votes are counted before Congress, if a member of the House and a member of the Senate both object to accepting the Electoral Votes from a state, a vote must be held on whether to reject the votes. Both Houses have to cast majority votes in favor of rejection for the votes to be set aside. The chances of this happening are, again, close to nil, absent a major breach of law or established protocols.
But wouldn't that also limit the ability to reject electoral votes from a GOP dominated state that were subject to obvious shenanigans?

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Fireball »

El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:37 pm
Fireball wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:53 pm


When the votes are counted before Congress, if a member of the House and a member of the Senate both object to accepting the Electoral Votes from a state, a vote must be held on whether to reject the votes. Both Houses have to cast majority votes in favor of rejection for the votes to be set aside. The chances of this happening are, again, close to nil, absent a major breach of law or established protocols.
But wouldn't that also limit the ability to reject electoral votes from a GOP dominated state that were subject to obvious shenanigans?
Yes. As I said, when they open the envelopes whoever has 270 electoral votes will win. Absent a major and clear breach of the law, the public would not accept Congress rejecting the Electoral College winner.
Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:17 am
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by em2nought »

Jaymann wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:01 am
If it comes down to an attempted military coup, Trump has consistently screwed the military.
Consistently screwed the military industrial complex more like.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Fireball wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:53 pm

When the votes are counted before Congress, if a member of the House and a member of the Senate both object to accepting the Electoral Votes from a state, a vote must be held on whether to reject the votes. Both Houses have to cast majority votes in favor of rejection for the votes to be set aside. The chances of this happening are, again, close to nil, absent a major breach of law or established protocols.
Ok,.got it. Thanks.
Fireball wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:53 pm
The chances of this happening are, again, close to nil, absent a major breach of law or established protocols.
And we all know there's no chance of a breach or law or established protocols with this GOP.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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em2nought wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:41 pm
Jaymann wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:01 am
If it comes down to an attempted military coup, Trump has consistently screwed the military.
Consistently screwed the military industrial complex more like.
Hey there drive by poster! Captain bonespurs is a draft-dodging (5 deferments) yellow-belly that likes parades. He trashes war heroes and their parents as a matter of course (especially if they were prisoners of war) and needs nearly every item of national security explained to him like he's a toddler. Then he turns around and says he understands ISIS better than anyone in the military. He has politicized the armed forces by turning them against peaceful Americans. He restored the rank of convicted war criminal Eddie Gallagher to the horror of his unit members who consider him "freaking evil." He fully pardoned two murders that pissed off a lot of rank and file.

He lied about US casualties after the Iran retaliatory strike and when finally called on it downplayed serious head injuries as not very serious headaches. He has diverted millions of appropriated spending to his easy to blow over wall, leaving military installments short and postponing needed projects due to the lost funding. Trump visited military hospitals only three times while Obama netted 29 visits over his two terms. He even blamed soldiers for looting US money lost in Iraq. Trump, as Richard Spencer says, “has very little understanding of what it means to be in the military, to fight ethically or to be governed by a uniform set of rules and practices.” The military is nothing more for Trump then a photo-op for redmeat dummies. Dude even claims he served active-duty in Viet Nam since he went to a rich-boy military prep school in upstate NY. Oh and he also calls his battle against STDs his own personal Nam. Trump is unfit to hold the lowest rank in the military and always has been.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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The military-industrial complex is doing just fine. Pompeo is selling weapons to the Saudis as fast as he can manage. The current Secretary of Defense was Raytheon's top lobbyist.

Actual soldiers, meanwhile, are out there earning Russian bounties for the Taliban, and POTUS refuses to bring it up in his biweekly Putin tongue bath.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Enough »

Holman wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:14 pm
The military-industrial complex is doing just fine. Pompeo is selling weapons to the Saudis as fast as he can manage. The current Secretary of Defense was Raytheon's top lobbyist.

Actual soldiers, meanwhile, are out there earning Russian bounties for the Taliban, and POTUS refuses to bring it up in his biweekly Putin tongue bath.
Duh, I somehow left the bounties thing off above, probably the one of the most traitorous acts by any POTUS in my lifetime.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Jaymann »

em2nought wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:41 pm
Jaymann wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:01 am
If it comes down to an attempted military coup, Trump has consistently screwed the military.
Consistently screwed the military industrial complex more like.
Well then his chances of a coup are even less.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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NYT has a good summary of the current state of trump's assault on the USPS.
At the same time, the mail system is being undercut in ways set in motion by Mr. Trump. Fueled by animus for Jeff Bezos, the founder of Amazon, and surrounded by advisers who have long called for privatizing the post office, Mr. Trump and his appointees have begun taking cost-cutting steps that appear to have led to slower and less reliable delivery.

In recent weeks, at the direction of a Trump campaign megadonor who was recently named the postmaster general, the service has stopped paying mail carriers and clerks the overtime necessary to ensure that deliveries can be completed each day. That and other changes have led to reports of letters and packages being delayed by as many as several days.

Voting rights groups say it is a recipe for disaster.

“We have an underfunded state and local election system and a deliberate slowdown in the Postal Service,” said Wendy Fields, the executive director of the Democracy Initiative, a coalition of voting and civil rights groups. She said the president was “deliberately orchestrating suppression and using the post office as a tool to do it.”
My latest shipment of cat meds was a day late, taking 5 days to go from upstate NY to MA. It was promised in 4 days. When I was shipping Priority Mail packages daily, the same trip would have been promised in 3 days and probably have arrived in 2. People who rely on these drugs to keep their companions alive are being advised to order well in advance of need.

On topic, I've requested mail ballots for the first time ever because MA did me the favor of sending a postcard asking if I wanted them.

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Alefroth »

Fireball wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:39 pm
Absent a major and clear breach of the law, the public would not accept Congress rejecting the Electoral College winner.
Pretty sure a good number of them would, and even if they didn't, what does it matter? What is the public going to do? Protest in the street?

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Alefroth wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:54 pm
Fireball wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:39 pm
Absent a major and clear breach of the law, the public would not accept Congress rejecting the Electoral College winner.
Pretty sure a good number of them would, and even if they didn't, what does it matter? What is the public going to do? Protest in the street?
Change their withholding and stop paying taxes?

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Re: Diddling with the USPS to screw up mail-in ballots...

How far do ballots really travel when mailed in? If I vote at my local Rec Center, it's about 2 miles from the town hall. The post office is 3 blocks from town hall. Do mail-in ballots have to cross the country, or are they counted inside the counties they're mailed from? Would anything short of closing USPS actually create a situation where it takes more than 36 hours for a ballot to go from a pick-up point to the drop-off point?
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by LordMortis »

Paingod wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:45 am
Re: Diddling with the USPS to screw up mail-in ballots...

How far do ballots really travel when mailed in? If I vote at my local Rec Center, it's about 2 miles from the town hall. The post office is 3 blocks from town hall. Do mail-in ballots have to cross the country, or are they counted inside the counties they're mailed from? Would anything short of closing USPS actually create a situation where it takes more than 36 hours for a ballot to go from a pick-up point to the drop-off point?
I've never done absentee before but in our state, you can drop absentee ballots off at city hall (or could, the laws are new this year). I don't know if counting happens locally if ballots are sent to the SOS at the state capitol.

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Paingod »

LordMortis wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:56 am
I don't know if counting happens locally if ballots are sent to the SOS at the state capitol.
I suppose my thought was that there's really nowhere in any state that should be more than a day and a half from any other location for the postal service, even if they've been completely hamstrung. All those ballots go to the same locations, get on the same trucks, and head to the same place. It's not like 300,000 individual letters going to 300,000 different addresses.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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The problem is that the way they were hamstrung is likely to create a delivery backlog. It might only be a day away, but if the office gets it on day one, and it goes into sorting behind six other days worth of stuff, it's not getting there on day two.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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If only some sort of priority system could be employed for ballots within a couple of days of the election.

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Holman »

Alefroth wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:27 pm
If only some sort of priority system could be employed for ballots within a couple of days of the election.
I'm sure Trump's hand-picked USPS head will get right on that.

I fully expect them to declare a COVID emergency on October 28: in order to prevent the risk of infection, all mail must be held in storage a full week before being processed.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by YellowKing »

Trump's assault on mail voting
is backfiring


Looks like Trump is doing his classic "shoot himself in the foot by making shit up" routine. TLDR - Trump's constant warnings about mail fraud are scaring more Republicans away from voting than Democrats.

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by El Guapo »

YellowKing wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:09 pm
Trump's assault on mail voting
is backfiring


Looks like Trump is doing his classic "shoot himself in the foot by making shit up" routine. TLDR - Trump's constant warnings about mail fraud are scaring more Republicans away from voting than Democrats.
The president's comments have made his base distrustful of mail voting ahead of an election that may hinge on turnout by mail
Well, when you put it like *that*, it sounds stupid.

Though obviously this is only part of the equation - Trump could still benefit if mail in ballot processing is better in rural than urban areas, and/or if mail in ballots favor Biden but Trump is ahead on election night, allowing Trump to declare 'victory' and then fight it out afterwards.

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Grifman »

El Guapo wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:08 pm
YellowKing wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:09 pm
Trump's assault on mail voting
is backfiring


Looks like Trump is doing his classic "shoot himself in the foot by making shit up" routine. TLDR - Trump's constant warnings about mail fraud are scaring more Republicans away from voting than Democrats.
The president's comments have made his base distrustful of mail voting ahead of an election that may hinge on turnout by mail
Well, when you put it like *that*, it sounds stupid.

Though obviously this is only part of the equation - Trump could still benefit if mail in ballot processing is better in rural than urban areas, and/or if mail in ballots favor Biden but Trump is ahead on election night, allowing Trump to declare 'victory' and then fight it out afterwards.
He can't declare victory on Election Night because he wants to. The states certify the votes and electors and Trump has no control over that. The states will count until they are finished. The real potential problem is if Trump is in the lead in a given state before mail ballots are counted. At that point, I would not be surprised to see Trump call fraud and file a suit trying to toss some/most/all of them out for whatever reasons he can imagine. Then our only protection will be the Supreme Court. Without any proof (and he won't have any), the Supreme Court would hand him a defeat on this issue - they may be conservatives but i don't see them letting Trump steal an election without any substantial evidence. I think that would be a line too far for the Supremes.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

Grifman wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:57 am
El Guapo wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:08 pm
YellowKing wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:09 pm
Trump's assault on mail voting
is backfiring


Looks like Trump is doing his classic "shoot himself in the foot by making shit up" routine. TLDR - Trump's constant warnings about mail fraud are scaring more Republicans away from voting than Democrats.
The president's comments have made his base distrustful of mail voting ahead of an election that may hinge on turnout by mail
Well, when you put it like *that*, it sounds stupid.

Though obviously this is only part of the equation - Trump could still benefit if mail in ballot processing is better in rural than urban areas, and/or if mail in ballots favor Biden but Trump is ahead on election night, allowing Trump to declare 'victory' and then fight it out afterwards.
He can't declare victory on Election Night because he wants to.
Why not? He can certainly 'declare victory' even if it him getting on tv and saying it or tweeting it. In fact, I expect he will do that no matter what. He will then bomb the courts across the land with lawsuits and whatever other craziness these guys can dream up. Is he rolling tanks down streets? No but he would still be President and will have power to cause havok.
The states certify the votes and electors and Trump has no control over that. The states will count until they are finished. The real potential problem is if Trump is in the lead in a given state before mail ballots are counted. At that point, I would not be surprised to see Trump call fraud and file a suit trying to toss some/most/all of them out for whatever reasons he can imagine.
Why is being in the lead any sort of gate here? He isn't guided by traditional logic or norms. This is a guy who has a defect in his brain that says he doesn't fail and can't lose unless he is cheated. And has his cult trained to believe it. I'm already seeing idiots in my orbit making some bizarre Trump-mania fueled distinction between absentee and mail-in voting. The only outcome where this will won't turn into a shit show is if Trump wins outright. There is probably even a chance that the bigger the lead or win by Biden, the more Trump will be convinced it is fraud.
Then our only protection will be the Supreme Court. Without any proof (and he won't have any), the Supreme Court would hand him a defeat on this issue - they may be conservatives but i don't see them letting Trump steal an election without any substantial evidence. I think that would be a line too far for the Supremes.
I agree they likely wouldn't rule this way especially Roberts and Gorsuch...even Kavanaugh perhaps but this is too binary. Unfortunately I don't think it is likely this will be Bush v. Gore situation where there will be some neat court case tying it up. There will be a broad based assault on the election. We have every reason to believe that the system will hold but there is an out-sized chance it will come under the severest attack it has ever seen in just three months. All hell will be breaking loose.

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by LawBeefaroni »

I agree. What he can and can't do is the same as what what is true and isn't true. He can declare victory at any point. He can declare rigged elections at any point (as he did before the 2016 elections).

Will it work? Probably not. But I also would have said we'd probably never have a 2-bit con man with tin-pot dictator aspirations in the White House.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Kraken »

The OP in this thread was about the Transition Integrity Project's wargames. Yesterday they released their recommendations.
Prime state officials for the possibility of a contested election. Prepare for the mass mobilization of peaceful protests. And get the public ready for the idea that Election Day could essentially last for weeks as a wave of mail-in ballots are counted.

Those are some of the recommendations released on Monday by the Transition Integrity Project, a bipartisan group of political operatives, former government officials, and academics who quietly met four times in June to game out what would happen if the apparent losing candidate in November’s general election refused to concede, as President Trump has hinted he might.

“We assess with a high degree of likelihood that November’s elections will be marked by a chaotic legal and political landscape,” the group wrote in a 22-page report. “We also assess that President Trump is likely to contest the result by both legal and extra-legal means, in an attempt to hold onto power.”

...

“The purpose of this report is not to frighten, but to spur all stakeholders to action,” the report said. “Our legal rules and political norms don’t work unless people are prepared to defend them and to speak out when others violate them.”

One Republican participant in the enterprise, however, said the games had simply underscored how ill-prepared Democrats are to go to battle with Trump if he tried to sow doubt about the election results and ultimately refused to concede.

“I felt like a lot of Democrats who were participating in these games really expected him to play by the rules and be above board and honorable,” said that person, who requested anonymity to honor the agreement of the game.

The person added: “I thought it was absolutely terrifying how unprepared a lot of Never-Trump forces are to actually deal with what could actually go down on the day.”

...

“Planners need to take seriously the notion that this may well be a street fight, not a legal battle; technocratic solutions, courts, and a reliance on elites observing norms are not the answer here,” the report said.

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by El Guapo »

I did poll watching in New Hampshire in 2016 and 2018. Just got a call from the NH Democrats about doing it again in 2020. I had coronavirus concerns obviously, but the way they're handling it seems to make sense - basically they'll be issuing all their poll watchers masks + face guards, and having everyone position themselves outside of the polling place instead of inside. Which makes sense - the core function of poll watchers is just to update the state committee on anything going on at that polling place which is causing long lines (since long lines are in effect the primary form of voter suppression on election day), and that can be done from outside the polling place for the most part.

So, probably going to do it.

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Smoove_B »

Regarding election integrity, last night there were some changes made at the USPS:
Twenty-three postal executives were reassigned or displaced, the new organizational chart shows. Analysts say the structure centralizes power around DeJoy, a former logistics executive and major ally of President Trump, and de-emphasizes decades of institutional postal knowledge. All told, 33 staffers included in the old postal hierarchy either kept their jobs or were reassigned in the restructuring, with five more staffers joining the leadership from other roles.
Whatever scam the GOP (and Russia?) ran with the voting machines isn't going to work in a pandemic. They Trump is able to quickly pivot and target the USPS is kind of frightening to me. It seems low-key, but clearly the impacts are going to be significant and it potentially throws the election process into chaos.

The Postmaster General:
As Common Dreams reported earlier Friday, Sen. Elizabeth Warren was among those who signed the letter and also called for DeJoy's efforts to be investigated by the Inspector General of the USPS. Since 2016 alone, DeJoy has donated more than $2.5 million to the Republican Party and candidates. In 2020, prior to his appointment as Postmaster General by the GOP-controlled board of governors, DeJoy had already given approximately $360,000 to a Super PAC supporting Trump's reelection.
Elected officials are seeing it and raising alarms, but how do you respond to this? It's unprecedented.



Postmaster General DeJoy is calling this a "modified organizational structure." It's really a Trojan Horse.
Deliberate sabotage to disrupt mail service on the eve of the election — an election that hinges on mail-in ballots.

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

There is also this. Trump found a guy who gets paid by doing the dirty work. This is astonishing shit. This isn't too far off from how Yeltsin and later Putin carved up Russia.

Last edited by malchior on Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Blackhawk »

I may despise Trump, but I consider him to have won the office in 2016 through the current rules. If, by whatever means, Trump were to keep the Presidency in 2020, I would never consider him to be the legitimately elected President. He's poisoned those waters.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Kraken »

Blackhawk wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:57 am
I may despise Trump, but I consider him to have won the office in 2016 through the current rules.
...with more than a little help from Putin. Enough, maybe, to account for his 11,000-vote margin in MI. Whenever context forces me to refer to trump as the president*, it always gets an asterisk. He lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million, only "won" the EC by around 78,000, and had Russian help doing it. Not legitimate in my eyes.

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Blackhawk »

Kraken wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:51 am
Blackhawk wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:57 am
I may despise Trump, but I consider him to have won the office in 2016 through the current rules.
...with more than a little help from Putin. Enough, maybe, to account for his 11,000-vote margin in MI. Whenever context forces me to refer to trump as the president*, it always gets an asterisk. He lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million, only "won" the EC by around 78,000, and had Russian help doing it. Not legitimate in my eyes.
Like I said, "current rules." The EC is an issue, but for now it beats the popular vote.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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I swear to God if Trump somehow steals this election, we need to be marching to the White House and burning the motherfucker to the ground.

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Smoove_B »

I can only imagine how big the wall will be in November to stop that from happening.


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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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It's only a couple of walls away from being Minas Tirith.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Holman »

Blackhawk wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:29 pm
It's only a couple of walls away from being Minas Tirith Morgul.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by LawBeefaroni »

YellowKing wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:01 pm
I swear to God if Trump somehow steals this election, we need to be marching to the White House and burning the motherfucker to the ground.
We need to be but do you honestly think we will? We see the machinations happening right before our eyes and all we do as a nation is tweet about it and bitch about it. Who is actually trying to stop it?

I'll be perfectly honest. He steals the election in November and I'm not marching anywhere. I'm at home protecting my family and prepping an exit strategy.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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I don't have an exit strategy. Being on disability, and having a disabled son means that no country will take me. I'm stuck here.

I think the reason we haven't seen bigger responses is that we're counting on this election to put things back on course and turn Trump into a freak detour for the history books. People are letting things slide because people see a solution. They have hope. If Trump stays in the White House and the election isn't crystal clear, they'll no longer have a solution or any hope. That's when people get desperate, and that's when people will respond.

Either that or we deserve what we get. If we don't act, it's because we need a lesson in what 'freedom' really means, and a half century or so of fascist authoritarianism will be the teacher.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Kraken »

I'm pretty confident that Americans will try to vote against trump in large numbers. I'm less confident that we'll be able to. Without overwhelming numbers, I'm even less confident that we can dislodge him.

I don't have an exit strategy if he's reinstalled. I should get a passport in the next few weeks. Wife has Canadian ancestry and I think we can check all the boxes to be accepted there. The US can't take four more years of this shitshow, at least not while remaining a country I want to call mine.

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by El Guapo »

Blackhawk wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:05 pm

I think the reason we haven't seen bigger responses is that we're counting on this election to put things back on course and turn Trump into a freak detour for the history books. People are letting things slide because people see a solution. They have hope. If Trump stays in the White House and the election isn't crystal clear, they'll no longer have a solution or any hope. That's when people get desperate, and that's when people will respond.
This is a good point. You do see a lot of protests at different times - even the BLM protests have served in significant part also as anti-Trump protests. But there are a lot of targets, it's constantly shifting, and easy leverage points are hard to find. The election will be a big focus for everyone who hates Trump, which is a majority of people (not as large as it should be, but still a majority). And one upshot of the electoral college is that it's likely to focus things on a few states in particular. Like, if there are shenanigans in Wisconsin, don't you think a *lot* of people are going to be willing to spend every waking moment badgering the Wisconsin Secretary of State's Office?

I wish things were more guaranteed, but there are going to be a lot of people focused on getting Trump out of office from November - January.

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