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stessier
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Re: Running

Post by stessier »

coopasonic wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:41 am
stessier wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:30 am My plan to work out 293 times in the year, though, is dead. I can only miss 10 more days the rest of the year and I just don't have the will power these days to try it.
Two-a-days!
Refer back to the lack of willpower. :)
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LawBeefaroni
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Re: Running

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:13 am It's been rough for me, between not being able to go to the gym (which was a solid 1/2 of my running), it being super hot and the kids being home all day for 3.5 months now. I'm at 394 miles for the year, but only 91 for May/June. And April was worse.

Lately I've just bucked up and gotten out the door more, as it's become crystal clear that I won't be going back to the gym anytime soon, and if we get into the fall/winter where it becomes harder to go outside and I look back and see how much time I wasted, I'm going to regret it.
The just announced re-opening at my gym at work. 75 minute maximum sessions, must book in advance, limited slots. I can live with all that. The problem is no showers, so I can't go before work or at lunch. After work is going to be full most of the time. Sucks. Also kills my plan to ride my bike to work.
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Re: Running

Post by Zaxxon »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:53 am
Zaxxon wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:13 am It's been rough for me, between not being able to go to the gym (which was a solid 1/2 of my running), it being super hot and the kids being home all day for 3.5 months now. I'm at 394 miles for the year, but only 91 for May/June. And April was worse.

Lately I've just bucked up and gotten out the door more, as it's become crystal clear that I won't be going back to the gym anytime soon, and if we get into the fall/winter where it becomes harder to go outside and I look back and see how much time I wasted, I'm going to regret it.
The just announced re-opening at my gym at work. 75 minute maximum sessions, must book in advance, limited slots. I can live with all that. The problem is no showers, so I can't go before work or at lunch. After work is going to be full most of the time. Sucks. Also kills my plan to ride my bike to work.
Ours are open, too, but it seems like a minefield. Even limited, you are in a space where people are constantly, intentionally, breathing heavily and spewing droplets galore everywhere. While using shared equipment, typically in an enclosed space without open windows.

No thanks.
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stessier
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Re: Running

Post by stessier »

Yeah, my gym opened up around June 1. The classes are limited in size, but the equipment is still at normal spacing. I haven't been back, but have wondered how crowded it's been. I'm happy waiting until next year.
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Re: Running

Post by YellowKing »

I went on an hour long walk today and it was really nice. I think I'm going to do those on my no-run days to assist with the weight loss.
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Re: Running

Post by raydude »

I hit a little snag last week. Decided to do some martial arts in my off day (Wednesday) and figured I'd wear my old sneakers. No cushion at all + stomping on asphalt = lots of lateral foot pain on my feet. I almost couldn't walk Wednesday afternoon, the pain was so bad. I did a lot of icing and took a lot of Motrin. It was slightly better on Friday and then gone on Saturday. Still, I decided to all of last weekend very easy and just did some walking on Monday. No pain after my walk, so I resumed my running this past Tuesday and Thursday. Wednesdays are now complete "off" days. No exercise whatsoever.

Then this morning I was able to run my fastest 4 miles yet: 12 min/mile pace.
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Re: Running

Post by raydude »

Did my longest run ever today - 4.24 miles. I read somewhere that folks recommended ice baths after a run as a way to reduce inflammation and soreness. I can't commit to doing that, but what I do is go into the shower right after running, take the flexible shower head, aim it at my legs, and turn the shower on cold. Our pipes come in on the first floor and are next to the A/C so the water that comes out is pretty cold. It seems to help with soreness, so I'll keep doing it as an ice bath substitute.
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Re: Running

Post by stessier »

Looks like Garmin got hit by ransomware and all it's services are going to be down for a while. This article says it effected everything from production in Asia to call centers. Somebody is having a bad day.
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Re: Running

Post by JCC »

stessier wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:38 pm Looks like Garmin got hit by ransomware and all it's services are going to be down for a while. This article says it effected everything from production in Asia to call centers. Somebody is having a bad day.
As a Garmin owner myself - they are so screwed. If they don't get things working soon, they are going to have to deal with a class action lawsuit. Sucks to be them.

I have been derailed by my running for a while. First as I had mentioned earlier had a sore knee and some hip pain. I kept reducing my running and then had it down to just one day a week. Still had some hip pain. So I was down to just walking. On the bright side I was never walking faster. I even did a 14:11 mile once which I was amazed at (for me). Then 4 weeks ago I got snipped - which completely killed all exercise for 2 weeks. I then went on a beach trip (which was great) for a week. I had planned to walk and maybe even try to run some on the beach early, but I only ended up only walking twice. Just too hot. Finally got back into walking normally this week. It's amazing how much hotter and humid it is now. I do OK on pace, but my cardio is definitely not what it was before the long break. On my 4 mile walks, I generally only hit Zone 5 (Gamin) for a sliver or 0%. Now (well when Garmin still worked) I am spending 50% in Zone 5. So, I need to get into better shape and the heat/humidity is taking a toll. Hoping to dip my toes back into running in a week or two. On the bright side my knee seems to be 90% healed and is not troubling me at all on walks. Tomorrow I will take my first 7 mile walk in weeks. Really looking forward to it.

Sorry to derail the thread with walking talk, but that's all I got right now.
Last edited by JCC on Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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stessier
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Re: Running

Post by stessier »

JCC wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:04 pm
stessier wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:38 pm Looks like Garmin got hit by ransomware and all it's services are going to be down for a while. This article says it effected everything from production in Asia to call centers. Somebody is having a bad day.
As a Garmin owner myself - they are so screwed. If they don't get things working soon, they are going to have to deal with a class action lawsuit. Sucks to be them.
I'm not sure how that would work for a free service considering none of the data is being lost. I've been manually downloading my runs and reuploading to another service and was shocked to see my watch has all my data back to 2017.
I have been derailed by my running for a while. First as I had mentioned earlier had a sore knee and some hip pain. I kept reducing my running and then had it down to just one day a week. Still had some hip pain. So I was down to just walking. On the bright side I was never walking faster. I even did a 14:11 mile once which I was amazed at (for me). Then 4 weeks ago I got snipped - which completely killed all exercise for 2 weeks. I then went on a beach trip (which was great) for a week. I had planned to walk and maybe even try to run some on the beach early, but I only ended up only walking twice. Just too hot. Finally got back into walking normally this week. It's amazing how much hotter and humid it is now. I do OK on pace, but my cardio is definitely not what it was before the long break. On my 4 mile walks, I generally only hit Zone 5 (Gamin) for a sliver or 0%. Now (well when Garmin still worked) I am spending 50% in Zone 5. So, I need to get into better shape and the heat/humidity is taking a toll. Hoping to dip my toes back into running in a week or two. On the bright side my knee seems to be 90% healed and is not troubling me at all on walks. Tomorrow I will take my first 7 minute walk in weeks. Really looking forward to it.

Sorry to derail the thread with walking talk, but that's all I got right now.
Congrats on getting back - hope the body holds up well enough to keep moving forward!
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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Re: Running

Post by JCC »

stessier wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:08 am
JCC wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:04 pm
As a Garmin owner myself - they are so screwed. If they don't get things working soon, they are going to have to deal with a class action lawsuit. Sucks to be them.
I'm not sure how that would work for a free service considering none of the data is being lost. I've been manually downloading my runs and reuploading to another service and was shocked to see my watch has all my data back to 2017.
It's not a free service. It's part of the product they are selling when they sell you the watch. It is certainly a big part of why I bought it. I get that there are manual workarounds, and if this goes on for a long while, then I will begin using them. But I think the vast majority of Garmin watch owners who depend on Garmin Connect to work (particularly any pro athletes that use it) are going to want compensation. This is not nerd rage on my part btw... I assume they will work out something eventually. I do think it looks bad for the company to reveal nothing. Hopefully they will release some sort of statement next week other than "our servers are down".
Congrats on getting back - hope the body holds up well enough to keep moving forward!
Thanks very much! :) (My 7 MILE (not minute - edited that in my original post) went well today! All miles in the 15-16 minute range.

I forgot to mention something funny that happened when I was at the beach last week. I was bragging to my (older) sister how I had been walking some miles in the 14 minutes range including one 14:11 mile. She smacked me down quite well: "I walk all my miles in under 14 minutes... ususally low 13 minute range!" I felt quite foolish as I was picking my jaw off the floor! LOL
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Re: Running

Post by JCC »

JCC wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:43 pm
It's not a free service. It's part of the product they are selling when they sell you the watch. It is certainly a big part of why I bought it. I get that there are manual workarounds, and if this goes on for a long while, then I will begin using them. But I think the vast majority of Garmin watch owners who depend on Garmin Connect to work (particularly any pro athletes that use it) are going to want compensation. This is not nerd rage on my part btw... I assume they will work out something eventually. I do think it looks bad for the company to reveal nothing. Hopefully they will release some sort of statement next week other than "our servers are down".
I am such a dope! I didn't realize you could look at activities on your watch! LOL. I agree it will be hard for Garmin watch owners to sue them succesfully. The FAA may be another matter.
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Re: Running

Post by JCC »

Garmin has acknowledged there was an attack. They claim no customer data was compromised. Things are apparently coming back up. My watch is still not syncing, but my friends' watches have. They say everything should be back to normal in a few days...
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Re: Running

Post by coopasonic »

Last year I ran 15 times for a massive total of 51.0 miles. So far this year I have run 27 times for a total of 82.5 miles. I could finally do it... I could run 100 miles in a year!

This morning I ran my fastest 5k (well, 3 miles) of the year, only NINE minutes slower than my PR.

Somehow I still insist on calling myself a runner.
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Re: Running

Post by Jeff V »

coopasonic wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:35 pm Somehow I still insist on calling myself a runner.
And you should. That you are tracking your progress and impressing yourself is a fine indication you're motivated to keep improving. I wish I was making progress running but haven't been since a day or two after becoming unemployed 2 months ago. I have been biking for the first time in a few years and worked myself up to 35 miles (in the before kids days, a long ride would be 100 miles), but my last run I struggled to make a full 5K. I really do need to try more, maybe I'll go in the morning.
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Re: Running

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Jeff V wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:12 pm I really do need to try more, maybe I'll go in the morning.
In the summer in Dallas there is really no choice. If I don't run before 8am, I don't run.
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Re: Running

Post by Jeff V »

coopasonic wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:39 pm
Jeff V wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:12 pm I really do need to try more, maybe I'll go in the morning.
In the summer in Dallas there is really no choice. If I don't run before 8am, I don't run.
This morning temps were in the 50's, our 9 am walk with the kids required long pants and long sleeves (or sweaters). Tomorrow might be in the 40's! Next week back to swampy 90's though.

I know what you mean though. When I went running in the Philippines, it was the same. Races started at 5 am. I'd go out at 7 and most people were done by then. As I was on vacation, I was the weirdo running late in the morning...like 8 am.
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Re: Running

Post by stessier »

Keep at it coop - 100 miles is in reach!

I run early to avoid the heat too. It's been mid-70s for the last 10 days or so at 5am when I run. Today was 66...it was heaven.
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Re: Running

Post by Kurth »

Keep it up Coop. All miles count!

In some sad news that hit me really hard recently, a runner I pretty much idolize, Tommy Rivers Puzey, was diagnosed with primary pulmonary NK/T-cell lymphoma, lung cancer. Rivs is my favorite iFIT trainer (iFIT makes video content and training programs for use with treadmills, bikes, etc.). He is easily one of the most popular trainers on iFIT, and there's usually a steady stream of new workouts from him. He's based in Flagstaff, AZ, but he travels around the world to film runs for iFIT. I've virtually run with him through the Balkans, Spain, Morocco, Greece, Costa Rica, Patagonia, through all types of terrain - deserts, mountains, rain forests, glaciers, and I always look forward to the latest series. So, when I hadn't seen any new content from him for a few months earlier this summer, I started googling and saw some rumblings that he had some kind of accident and was in the hospital. Then, last month, I heard he was hospitalized with a respiratory illness, which everyone presumed was COVID-19. But it wasn't, and a couple weeks ago, it was announced that he has this rare form of lung cancer.

I've probably run well over a thousand miles with Rivs virtually on my treadmill since I got it a couple years ago, and as strange as it sounds, having listened to and watched him for hundreds of hours on those runs, I feel like I know the guy. Hearing about his illness has been crushing.

Yesterday, iFIT did a fundraiser for Rivs where they agreed to donate a dollar for every mile run by someone on one a Rivs workout that day. I put in my longest treadmill run to date, and, my wife and son pitched in, too, with their own Rivs workouts.

If anyone else is interested in pitching in, there's a general fundraising page here where you can log your miles and raise money in support of Tommy and his family.
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Re: Running

Post by Isgrimnur »

Jeff V wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:57 pm
coopasonic wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:39 pm
Jeff V wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:12 pm I really do need to try more, maybe I'll go in the morning.
In the summer in Dallas there is really no choice. If I don't run before 8am, I don't run.
This morning temps were in the 50's, our 9 am walk with the kids required long pants and long sleeves (or sweaters). Tomorrow might be in the 40's! Next week back to swampy 90's though.
How the hell do you call that summer?
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Running

Post by Jeff V »

July was the warmest ever. It'll be 90's again this weekend, but this morning was 45. Almost considered turning on the heat this morning, but closing the windows sufficed.
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Re: Running

Post by Jaymon »

The therapist had me do a couple of short stints of jogging on the treadmill. it was glorious, First time since my injury.
I'm not cleared for home jogging yet, but I am allowed to do some light jumping in place.
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Re: Running

Post by coopasonic »

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:53 pm
Jeff V wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:57 pm
coopasonic wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:39 pm
Jeff V wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:12 pm I really do need to try more, maybe I'll go in the morning.
In the summer in Dallas there is really no choice. If I don't run before 8am, I don't run.
This morning temps were in the 50's, our 9 am walk with the kids required long pants and long sleeves (or sweaters). Tomorrow might be in the 40's! Next week back to swampy 90's though.
How the hell do you call that summer?
I'm pretty sure he would say the same of our concept of winter.
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Re: Running

Post by Zaxxon »

Today marks 2 years since coop and I did a Ragnar. Not sure he's run that distance since. Need to do another!
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Re: Running

Post by Isgrimnur »

coopasonic wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:46 am
Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:53 pm
Jeff V wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:57 pm
coopasonic wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:39 pm
Jeff V wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:12 pm I really do need to try more, maybe I'll go in the morning.
In the summer in Dallas there is really no choice. If I don't run before 8am, I don't run.
This morning temps were in the 50's, our 9 am walk with the kids required long pants and long sleeves (or sweaters). Tomorrow might be in the 40's! Next week back to swampy 90's though.
How the hell do you call that summer?
I'm pretty sure he would say the same of our concept of winter.
We have one at least every 2-3 years.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Running

Post by coopasonic »

Zaxxon wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:17 pm Today marks 2 years since coop and I did a Ragnar. Not sure he's run that distance since. Need to do another!
You can do another. I am not sure I ever need to do anything like that again.... probably. That last leg almost killed me. Luckily there is no terrain like that around here so I can't really do that even if I wanted to.
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Re: Running

Post by coopasonic »

coopasonic wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:35 pm Last year I ran 15 times for a massive total of 51.0 miles. So far this year I have run 27 times for a total of 82.5 miles. I could finally do it... I could run 100 miles in a year!
100.1 miles in 16:34:19, no, not all at once.

So that was my goal for the year. With 4.5 months (or primarily sedentary life) left in the year, I should probably not stop there but I don't think I'll be setting any specific goal other than keep running (until mornings are cold... in Texas terms anyway).

I bought a scale this week. It wasn't as bad as I thought. There are two pounds that I would like to ditch. That seems feasible if I can continue to control my eating.
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Re: Running

Post by YellowKing »

I've got to get back into it seriously - I haven't stopped running at all this year, and have consistently put in 3 nights a week of 30 minutes or more. However, I've scaled back the intensity a great deal. At one point I was up to being able to run 4 miles straight, but I've scaled way back and I'm barely doing 2 now.

One problem is I kept hitting a wall with my 10k training, would get discouraged, and then switch training plans. Which would set me back to an easier schedule which I would follow until I hit the next wall, then change again. Rinse, repeat. The incessant heat hasn't helped - even in the late evenings it's routinely in the high 80s here, and when I'm hot I don't function well at all.

I'm just having trouble settling in on an app/training routine that I'm happy with. The last one I really enjoyed was a trainer-led (audio encouragement throughout the run) 5K program through RunKeeper, but they don't have a longer version of it. I need to look for something similar for longer distances.

Weight-wise I'm bouncing between 198 and 200, which is really heavy for me. 200 is my max weight ever. A bit of it can be attributed to muscle as I've been doing a lot of pushups and pullups, but it's certainly not all of it. I've been doing salads for lunch every day but so far I can't seem to break 198. I have no doubt it's attributable to working from home now and not going places. I'm probably missing out on miles of walking per week that I used to do without thinking at the office and out running errands.
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Re: Running

Post by raydude »

I've been consistently doing 4 mile run/walks with little improvement in my pace time or endurance so I am decided to switch things up. Especially after reading up on how to increase my run speed and endurance. Essentially it boiled down to: If you train to run long and slow then you will run long and slow. The only way to run faster is to run faster; run longer to run longer.

So I've recently been pushing myself to run faster and am now seeing an average pace of 12:15/mile, even with the short walk breaks. And just today I tried pushing myself to run a whole mile straight and did it in 11:16. As a treat I let myself walk the rest of my 50-minute workout. I think I'll do the same thing on Monday, except Monday will be focused on trying to run as long as I can without walking, while Thursday will be focused on running my fastest mile. Tuesday and Friday will be my normal 4 mile run/walks, which will hopefully see more improvement from my Monday and Thursday drills.
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Re: Running

Post by Zaxxon »

Nice! I definitely agree with training for what you want to accomplish.
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Re: Running

Post by stessier »

Nice raydude! Keep it up!
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Re: Running

Post by Jeff V »

Different types of muscle fibers are used with slow and fast workouts. What I found best for training speed (which I only actually did one season I think) was heart rate training -- you can calculate what should be your max-heart rate then pace yourself to maintain about 80% of that rate. This assumes you have tech that will give you periodic notifications -- so you know when you start dogging it and need to accelerate. As you become accustomed to a certain speed, you'll be able to maintain at a lesser heart rate, so go faster to get back to 80%. You'll find the speed increase to be more sustainable.

Sprint intervals works for some people, but the above did it for me.
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Re: Running

Post by Baroquen »

I was never able to get into the heart rate stuff. I understand it, but am too lazy to deal with tracking it and utilizing the data.

I did manage to run outdoors this morning and it was pretty glorious. Perfect temps, shade and a light breeze. I may even try again tomorrow morning if the nice weather holds.
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Re: Running

Post by Jeff V »

Baroquen wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:55 pm I was never able to get into the heart rate stuff. I understand it, but am too lazy to deal with tracking it and utilizing the data.
I should note there are gizmos for that sort of thing that require only passive involvement on your part.

The kid's Taekwondo school, still not open after the Covid shutdown led to their landlord evicting them from their studio, is starting a biweekly running club tomorrow. My son doesn't seem to be the least bit interested though, and my daughter withdrew from the school a few months before the shutdown. The three of us went on a hike/picnic they had last weekend, son whined and complained the whole time, daughter had a blast. I've gotten some irregular biking in these past few months, but only once or twice a week, topping out at 35 miles. Far cry from the days of doing it almost daily with up to 100 miles on weekend days.
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coopasonic
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Re: Running

Post by coopasonic »

All of 2019: 51.0 miles in 15 runs at 9:32 average pace
July 2020: 33.9 miles in 11 runs at 9:55 average pace
August 2020: 65.0 miles in 19 activities at 9:19 pace (pace improved a LOT moving from 2 runs per week to 4-5/wk, shocking)

There were thunderstorms yesterday morning or I would have hit 100 miles between July and August. Yeah, I could have gotten on the treadmill but I didn't.

138.4 miles year to date - I am starting to think 200 is possible for the year. Kids go back to school in person later this week and that combined with later sunrises and cooling temperatures will cut into my running time so I am not making any bets. I wish I could convince myself not to hate the treadmill.
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YellowKing
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Re: Running

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I just bought a bike to supplement the running. I was the last one in the family to not have a bike, and the kids are old enough now that I can no longer just run and keep up with them. Looking forward to it though. The last time I owned a bike was in my early 20s. Now that the whole family has one, we should be getting out and about a lot more.

Mine is still being built, so I took my wife's out for a spin a couple of nights this week and was surprised at how much of a workout I got. It's not running level, but I was surprised to find I had a touch of soreness the next morning.

I've also noticed a twinge in my left knee sometimes when running and doing squats. There's no doubt that one day that's going to be the one that acts up on me. Hoping the biking lets me rest that knee a bit more without sacrificing exercise.
Last edited by YellowKing on Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Running

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I need to get me a bike, as well. Similar reasons.
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Re: Running

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Keep it up Coop!

I've lost it. Maybe it's the state of the world getting to me, maybe it's because my neighborhood doesn't allow runs to be safe and easy, or maybe I just need a break - but I'm finding it really hard to get out an run. Last week I only did 4x. I'm on pace for about that this week. I'm finding video games much more appealing and this is bad for my waste line. Hopefully I find my way out of it soon.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles__2019: 2000.00 miles
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Re: Running

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stessier wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:21 pm Keep it up Coop!

I've lost it. Maybe it's the state of the world getting to me, maybe it's because my neighborhood doesn't allow runs to be safe and easy, or maybe I just need a break - but I'm finding it really hard to get out an run. Last week I only did 4x. I'm on pace for about that this week. I'm finding video games much more appealing and this is bad for my waste line. Hopefully I find my way out of it soon.
Also similar here. I'm still getting runs in, but my weekend long run has largely been replaced by short hikes at increasingly-distant state parks. My weekday runs have gone from 4/week @ 4.5-5 miles plus weights at the gym pre-COVID to maybe 2x/week @ 2-3.5 miles, outside at a slower pace with very little strength work. Partially due to mental exhaustion from dealing with everything (including 2 kids e-learning), partially due to this dumb achilles issue still haranguing me (and I'm not about to go in for PT during a pandemic).

2020 is just [barkley]TURRIBLE[/barkley] and needs to end.
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Re: Running

Post by coopasonic »

stessier wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:21 pm Keep it up Coop!

I've lost it. Maybe it's the state of the world getting to me, maybe it's because my neighborhood doesn't allow runs to be safe and easy, or maybe I just need a break - but I'm finding it really hard to get out an run. Last week I only did 4x. I'm on pace for about that this week. I'm finding video games much more appealing and this is bad for my waste line. Hopefully I find my way out of it soon.
Thanks for the encouragement, but then you immediately shame me with your "only 4 runs last week"! Kidding, mostly. But consistently running 4x a week seems pretty good to me. I have been thinking about options to do something on the off days because generally I get 700-800 steps and maybe 3 flights of stairs on days I don't run. That... is pathetic. On a normal day when the world was normal I would have 6k steps and 10-12 flights just doing work stuff. My wife wants to do various beach body workouts but after my back surgery I am way more afraid about a lot of that stuff. Also, video games are more fun! I guess I can go back to Beat Saber and Thrill of the Fight on VR for the best of both worlds.
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