Election integrity and the transfer of power

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:18 pm

I find it deeply unhelpful that outlets like the NY Times have real-time EC vote trackers on their front pages. (Example of a reaction to this new and ultimately stupid trend below). "Expected" EC votes - oh the drama. They are squeezing every drop out of this.

geezer · Post by **geezer** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:26 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:18 pm I find it deeply unhelpful that outlets like the NY Times have real-time EC vote trackers on their front pages. (Example of a reaction to this new and ultimately stupid trend below). "Expected" EC votes - oh the drama. They are squeezing every drop out of this.

Something is afoot. The odds of a Biden comeback from this deficit with just a few hundred votes to go is 24 eleventy-billion to one. And the liberal Bezos Amazon Post somehow already knows the outcome. VOTER FRAUD!!!!

Edit.. That's exactly what the image was joking about. Oops

geezer · Post by **geezer** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:29 pm

Little Raven wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:29 pm I just held an election in my house. By a 3-2 vote, we have determined that I am now the President of the United States. (my wife and daughter voted against, fortunately, I'm the one that feeds the cats!)

We will be sending these results to Congress.

You can have the elector from this part of town too. We're now "New Austin" according to ourselves. Your margin of victory is unassailable and you must be recognized. It's what the Founders intended.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:44 pm

geezer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:29 pm
Little Raven wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:29 pm I just held an election in my house. By a 3-2 vote, we have determined that I am now the President of the United States. (my wife and daughter voted against, fortunately, I'm the one that feeds the cats!)

We will be sending these results to Congress.
You can have the elector from this part of town too. We're now "New Austin" according to ourselves. Your margin of victory is unassailable and you must be recognized. It's what the Founders intended.

Ignore this "pretender"! By the authority conferred upon me by the legitimate power of law represented by this certificate from a cereal box legally in my possession I hereby declare myself Ruler of these United States. I will be sending my representatives to Congress to inform them of these legitimate results after which there will be a more "streamlined" form of government...

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:48 pm

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:21 pm

Remus West wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:32 pm
Octavious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:16 pm Wow when you think they couldn't stoop any lower.
Until they nuke an American city I won't think they ave hit their lowest bar. That is the only thing I can believe below them right now. Well....an American city with trump properties anyway. I could see they making glass out of Flint.

C'mon, really?

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:38 pm

pr0ner wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:21 pm
Remus West wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:32 pm
Octavious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:16 pm Wow when you think they couldn't stoop any lower.
Until they nuke an American city I won't think they ave hit their lowest bar. That is the only thing I can believe below them right now. Well....an American city with trump properties anyway. I could see they making glass out of Flint.
C'mon, really?

While I agree that the current administration and it's leader have no bottom, I think they'd need to have won the vote and be in power for another 4 years before they'd get to that level.

There is no bottom, but it's a progressive removal of the existing bottom and then removing that one and then the next. Not a 1000mph free-fall.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:47 pm

pr0ner wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:21 pm
Remus West wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:32 pm
Octavious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:16 pm Wow when you think they couldn't stoop any lower.
Until they nuke an American city I won't think they ave hit their lowest bar. That is the only thing I can believe below them right now. Well....an American city with trump properties anyway. I could see they making glass out of Flint.
C'mon, really?

Nuking Iran maybe I could see happening. I think we're pretty safe from self nuking.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:58 pm

No idea if this will actually bear any fruit, but I certainly don't fault them for trying.

Smartmatic, one target of the conspiracy theories that QAnon, right-wing media, the President, and his legal team eagerly embraced, starts down the warpath with a series of demand letters to FNC, OANN, and NewsMax.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:35 pm

pr0ner wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:21 pm
Remus West wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:32 pm
Octavious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:16 pm Wow when you think they couldn't stoop any lower.
Until they nuke an American city I won't think they ave hit their lowest bar. That is the only thing I can believe below them right now. Well....an American city with trump properties anyway. I could see they making glass out of Flint.
C'mon, really?

Nuking is an obvious hyperbole but I honesty wouldn't be shocked if he tried to order the military to take and hold cities that don't support him such as Detroit via declarations of martial law due to "election fraud". I honestly don't put anything off the table when considering the things he might try to stay in power. His action have made and continue to reinforce the lesson that he cares for nothing else.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:37 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:58 pm No idea if this will actually bear any fruit, but I certainly don't fault them for trying.

Smartmatic, one target of the conspiracy theories that QAnon, right-wing media, the President, and his legal team eagerly embraced, starts down the warpath with a series of demand letters to FNC, OANN, and NewsMax.

I not only do not fault them, I applaud them. Force the liars to admit they are liars.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:08 pm

They said that they were the Republican electors there to cast their vote for president. State police declined to let them enter the building or leave votes offered in a manila envelope

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:08 pm

How long before Trumpets demand to defund the police?

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:23 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:08 pm

They said that they were the Republican electors there to cast their vote for president. State police declined to let them enter the building or leave votes offered in a manila envelope

Why is Canada trying to undermine our election...

(assuming the person with cell phone was part of the group advocating sedition)

GungHo · Post by **GungHo** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:34 pm

So I guess I just have a lot of questions about what we do, going forward with the next administration, to ensure these shenanigans don't happen again in 2 or 4 years. I know we can legitimately claim that 'the system held' but how narrow was the margin? I'm still fairly unclear about a lot of the details, I mean the rabbit holes here are pretty damn deep and I think most of the ppl who can claim to legitimately be experts in the area have either PhDs or at a minimum are lawyers. But what if the one GOP canvasser in Michigan that did agree to certify the vote, decided not to? What if instead of an abstinence and a yes, we had gotten 2 'no' votes? I mean that's really really thin. Are there real teeth to a law that would require them to certify? Is there a barrier for proof that would compel them to certify even if they're a deranged MAGAT? And again, are there real penalties if they don't? I also don't know, tho I'm assuming, if these are state or federal laws which given the norm breaking of trump RE: pardons could be disastrous if these are federal statutes(I'm guessing they are state however).

Also, why haven't the lawyers associated with all of these baseless filings not been censured? Had their bar association removed? Anything punitive?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:42 pm

GungHo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:34 pm So I guess I just have a lot of questions about what we do, going forward with the next administration, to ensure these shenanigans don't happen again in 2 or 4 years.

We make sure Trump lives within 1 mile of a KFC and 200 miles from any hospital.

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:55 pm

GungHo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:34 pmBut what if the one GOP canvasser in Michigan that did agree to certify the vote, decided not to?

This has never been tested, but in theory, If a state can't certify a vote and agree on electors (for whatever reason) then it falls to the newly elected Congress to determine who gets the electoral votes.

So if Michigan had failed to agree, Pelosi would have determined how to allot Michigan's electoral votes. As you might imagine, that's a pretty strong incentive for a state to ultimately get its act together.

Also, why haven't the lawyers associated with all of these baseless filings not been censured? Had their bar association removed? Anything punitive?

IANAL, but generally speaking, we do not want to discourage lawyers from zealously defending their clients (no matter how batshit their clients are) because we don't want to create a situation where lawyers are afraid to defend unpopular people.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:12 pm

Little Raven wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:55 pm
GungHo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:34 pmBut what if the one GOP canvasser in Michigan that did agree to certify the vote, decided not to?
This has never been tested, but in theory, If a state can't certify a vote and agree on electors (for whatever reason) then it falls to the newly elected Congress to determine who gets the electoral votes.

So if Michigan had failed to agree, Pelosi would have determined how to allot Michigan's electoral votes. As you might imagine, that's a pretty strong incentive for a state to ultimately get its act together.

Not quite. What'd happen is a member of Congress would lodge an objection. The House and Senate would then go back to their respective chambers for a debate. Each would ultimately vote separately - majority rules. If they disagree then the certification of the Governor will stand. This was why State certification was such a big deal potentially. Details here.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:15 pm

The problem is that we have one party that has decided it's OK to never play by the rules of democracy again. And not only are they not being punished for it, they're being actively cheered on by half the country. The system held this time. I'm not sure it holds every time. At some point it will cave under such relentless assault. And all it's going to take is the presidency coming down to one or two swing states instead of a handful.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:17 pm

Meanwhile, they are running through these type of shenanigans. Sure they'll be laughed away on January 6th but they are saying that they will not recognize Biden. Does anyone honestly think the Senate is going to play along with him anymore?

Edit: The NV GOP voted about 30 minutes ago to send their own electors. Trying to find a non-parody account that is detailing it but saw it just come across the tv.

Edit 2: This is closest I've found so far but they will be sending these and someone from the GOP will file an objection to the official NV slate. It won't succeed but it is meant to set fire to the roots of our democracy and show how it was 'stolen' away.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:23 pm

Reno

The Nevada Presidential Electors have officially cast their ballots for Joseph Biden for President and Kamala Harris for Vice President.

The Nevada Secretary of State held the Electors meeting virtually on Zoom due to the pandemic.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:25 pm

Heavy

Some websites are sharing that President Donald Trump just won Nevada and the electors flipped for him. But this isn’t accurate. What actually happened was a slate of Republican electors cast their vote for Trump, but those votes were only symbolic. They won’t count in the Electoral College since President-elect Joe Biden won Nevada and Nevada law notes that the electoral votes are granted in a winner-takes-all manner. Some Republicans have said that their votes were cast as alternates in case court challenges are successful.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:29 pm

Little Raven wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:55 pm
GungHo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:34 pmAlso, why haven't the lawyers associated with all of these baseless filings not been censured? Had their bar association removed? Anything punitive?
IANAL, but generally speaking, we do not want to discourage lawyers from zealously defending their clients (no matter how batshit their clients are) because we don't want to create a situation where lawyers are afraid to defend unpopular people.

IANAFL either but I see two issues. One of defending idiots and the other of being an idiot themselves. Lawyers should be free to defend their clients but they aren't free to bring suits that aren't even remotely valid. Attempting to hijack courts to perpetuate a political narrative and foment unrest certainly seems censurable.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:34 pm

More of this please.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:39 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:25 pm Heavy

Some websites are sharing that President Donald Trump just won Nevada and the electors flipped for him. But this isn’t accurate. What actually happened was a slate of Republican electors cast their vote for Trump, but those votes were only symbolic. They won’t count in the Electoral College since President-elect Joe Biden won Nevada and Nevada law notes that the electoral votes are granted in a winner-takes-all manner. Some Republicans have said that their votes were cast as alternates in case court challenges are successful.

I'm going to symbolically suggest these individuals are jailed indefinitely until we can decide if firing squad or gallows are more appropriate.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:42 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:34 pm

More of this please.

His full statement is here.

My guess is this is entirely symbolic and won't change his voting patterns, but I suppose that's better than nothing.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:43 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:34 pm

More of this please.

Well, he's retiring in 17 days, so I'm not sure this is the courage I was looking for.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:45 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:43 pm
Holman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:34 pm

More of this please.
Well, he's retiring in 17 days, so I'm not sure this is the courage I was looking for.

I didn't realize he was on his way out the door.

So strong, much courage.

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:57 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:29 pmLawyers should be free to defend their clients but they aren't free to bring suits that aren't even remotely valid.

Democrats have traditionally been enemies of tort-reform measures. Maybe this will bring the two parties together?

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:42 pm

Electoral College Affirms Biden Victory As Trump Continues Baseless Challenges

Relieved (and a little surprised, tbh) that today's certification went off largely without incident.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:09 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:42 pm Electoral College Affirms Biden Victory As Trump Continues Baseless Challenges

Relieved (and a little surprised, tbh) that today's certification went off largely without incident.

Next up: Congressional shit show on January 6, with Pence as Master of Defecation.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:12 pm

It really is fascinating and disturbing at the same time, watching the ramblings of the other side. Some are impatient, wondering why they keep losing in court, questioning what Giuliani and Powell are doing. Others say, "Have faith, we're keeping to the plan", though that plan keeps shifting as the court losses pile up and no real progress other than losing is made. Even the EC votes doesn't dissuade some of them. The latest "plan" is that the casting of "illegal" EC votes is what is needed for arrest and trial for conspiracy of the Biden/Harris fraud team. Trump had to let them vote so that the "crime" would be complete, this is just another example of his "5d chess", and ability to think in the long term. They are waiting for Trump's recent EO that requires the DNI to submit a report on foreign electoral interference with 45 days after an election. When that report is soon released, it supposedly will be a bombshell,and the arrests will start.

Though that sounds crazy, it's not the craziest thing I've read. That would be the "shootout" between the US military and CIA operatives at the "server farm" in Germany, when the military seized the server that was collecting US voting information and then sending it back to defraud the election. According to this story, not only were 5 army soldiers and one CIA operative were killed in the raid, but for some wild reason, Gina Haspell, CIA Director was also there and was wounded in the shootout and arrested. She was then taken to Guantanamo, interrogated and broke, and agreed to work with Trump in revealing and dismantling the election fraud scheme. I kid you not, there were people lapping this s*** up. Trumpism truly is an insane cult.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:20 pm

Grifman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:12 pm Though that sounds crazy, it's not the craziest thing I've read. That would be the "shootout" between the US military and CIA operatives at the "server farm" in Germany, when the military seized the server that was collecting US voting information and then sending it back to defraud the election. According to this story, not only were 5 army soldiers and one CIA operative were killed in the raid, but for some wild reason, Gina Haspell, CIA Director was also there and was wounded in the shootout and arrested. She was then taken to Guantanamo, interrogated and broke, and agreed to work with Trump in revealing and dismantling the election fraud scheme.

wat

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:22 pm

if i wanted to make the most of this (and had a power complex) i'd just 'leak' creative writing exercises out as conspiracies. it's kinda fun to manipulate the stupidly gullible (those who will believe anything that fits with what they want to hear) and any new development is an excuse to stretch one's talents to come up with a new situation in response. clearly there are people doing just that already - i suspect 'Q' is one of them.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:28 pm

Wait a minute! Doesn't the DNI oversee the CIA? This goes deeper than we thought!

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:58 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:20 pm
Grifman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:12 pm Though that sounds crazy, it's not the craziest thing I've read. That would be the "shootout" between the US military and CIA operatives at the "server farm" in Germany, when the military seized the server that was collecting US voting information and then sending it back to defraud the election. According to this story, not only were 5 army soldiers and one CIA operative were killed in the raid, but for some wild reason, Gina Haspell, CIA Director was also there and was wounded in the shootout and arrested. She was then taken to Guantanamo, interrogated and broke, and agreed to work with Trump in revealing and dismantling the election fraud scheme.
wat

There are more batshit crazy conspiracy theories out there now than that.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:26 am

According to a renowned legal expert, Agolf can go EX PARTE to win the election! However, I think there was a typo and he meant "Mulligan."

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:38 am

Anyone else think Jesus might be using PEDs?

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:41 am

pr0ner wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:58 pm There are more batshit crazy conspiracy theories out there now than that.

There are Chinese troops from Canada invading Maine:

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:47 am

Grifman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:12 pm It really is fascinating and disturbing at the same time, watching the ramblings of the other side. Some are impatient, wondering why they keep losing in court, questioning what Giuliani and Powell are doing. Others say, "Have faith, we're keeping to the plan", though that plan keeps shifting as the court losses pile up and no real progress other than losing is made. Even the EC votes doesn't dissuade some of them. The latest "plan" is that the casting of "illegal" EC votes is what is needed for arrest and trial for conspiracy of the Biden/Harris fraud team. Trump had to let them vote so that the "crime" would be complete, this is just another example of his "5d chess", and ability to think in the long term. They are waiting for Trump's recent EO that requires the DNI to submit a report on foreign electoral interference with 45 days after an election. When that report is soon released, it supposedly will be a bombshell,and the arrests will start.

Though that sounds crazy, it's not the craziest thing I've read. That would be the "shootout" between the US military and CIA operatives at the "server farm" in Germany, when the military seized the server that was collecting US voting information and then sending it back to defraud the election. According to this story, not only were 5 army soldiers and one CIA operative were killed in the raid, but for some wild reason, Gina Haspell, CIA Director was also there and was wounded in the shootout and arrested. She was then taken to Guantanamo, interrogated and broke, and agreed to work with Trump in revealing and dismantling the election fraud scheme. I kid you not, there were people lapping this s*** up. Trumpism truly is an insane cult.

QAnon is a fertile field! By which I mean it is full of shit.

If you've encountered "Trust the Plan," that's one of the oldest QAnon mottoes. The Plan involves and explains everything that has happened, including the (only apparent) setbacks for Trump. Ultimately it culminates in Trump revealing the evidence of treason he has gathered and then declaring martial law, at which point *all* the Dems and reporters and celebrities will suffer.

(I once saw a QAnon spreadsheet listing hundreds of their enemies and whether they were slated for firing squad, guillotine, or life at Gitmo. Interestingly, it claimed that some of these, including Hillary Clinton and Tom Hanks, had already been executed and replaced by doubles. For Q people it was like porn done in Excel.)

It's a perfect coping mechanism as long as Trump is still in office. "You see, Trump *had* to allow the Electoral College to declare for Biden because now everyone involved has *actually committed* treason rather than just *trying* to!!"

Inauguration Day is going to be a real crisis for these folks.