Sorry, the first DONNER Superman film. And even if I saw it as an adult first, I think i would still get that same warm feeling. Reeve’s balance of innocence, sincerity and optimism, while still being charming and believable, is damn near perfect.
Sorry, the first DONNER Superman film. And even if I saw it as an adult first, I think i would still get that same warm feeling. Reeve’s balance of innocence, sincerity and optimism, while still being charming and believable, is damn near perfect.
It does fall apart in the sequels though.
I think my main complaint about WW84 and most of the superman movies is the over the top campiness. Being a kid I never picked up on it. It's not so bad on the first Superman but the rest... yikes.
I think there can be fun campy and then just bad campy though. The first superman was good campy (mostly because of Reeves), but the Schumacher Batmans were bad campy. Progressively more cringe inducing bad campy, to be more precise.
The secret of good campy seems to be that, once it passes a certain level of camp, the show has to know it's campy. It has to accept that as part of its identity. If it thinks it's a serious show/film, it just doesn't work. Compare Batman Forever/Batman Returns (which thought they were serious) with Batman '66 (which knew it wasn't.)
A fun curiosity: When Snyder first wrote Justice League, he didn't intend to use the WWI photograph of Wonder Woman. He had a different photograph, set in the Crimean War. When Patty Jenkins came in to do Wonder Woman, she changed that to WWI, and swapped the photo out. Snyder just released the original photo:
I just watched Thor: Ragnarok for the first time last night on the heels of Dr. Strange and Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (catching up on my Marvel movies), and it strikes me how seemingly effortless it is for Marvel to throw off good (or even fantastic in the case of Thor) superhero movies. They keep the camp and the seriousness (and the action and the characters) in such great balance. While I liked WW84 well enough, it's not playing in the same league as the Marvel movies (insert Justice League joke here).
I just watched the entire MCU again in chronological order (which is a great way to watch them - it really brings the story together), and I agree. The MCU consists of fun movies with an almost 'buddy cop' feel. They write the characters first, then write their adventures after. DC, as much as I love them, just doesn't do that most of the time (Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Shazam pulled it off to varying degrees.) I think somebody at Warner decided that they needed to distinguish themselves from Marvel by going for 'serious' instead of 'lighthearted' and they haven't been able to pull a 180 yet. The obsession with Snyder doesn't help.
McNutt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:37 am
Donner's first Superman remains one of the best superhero movies made.
I completely agree.
HOT TAKE: Donner's Superman isn't all that good, and people's affection for it is 90% driven by nostalgia and affection for the Superman character and Christopher Reeve.
Honestly, the plot is about as ridiculous as WW84, and the villains are about as deep and scary as the villains in Batman Forever.
If 'good' is subjective (and I believe it is), then why people find a movie good (including nostalgia and love of a character) doesn't really matter (unless you're the studio.)
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:47 am
I just watched the entire MCU again in chronological order (which is a great way to watch them - it really brings the story together), and I agree. The MCU consists of fun movies with an almost 'buddy cop' feel. They write the characters first, then write their adventures after. DC, as much as I love them, just doesn't do that most of the time (Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Shazam pulled it off to varying degrees.) I think somebody at Warner decided that they needed to distinguish themselves from Marvel by going for 'serious' instead of 'lighthearted' and they haven't been able to pull a 180 yet. The obsession with Snyder doesn't help.
How do they know where to fit the Guardians of the Galaxy movies in chronological order?
A few are flexible, or take place at roughly the same time. I just followed the order in the article I linked to. The entire story plays out as a single narrative. The only thing that is out of place is one after-credits scene (in Captain Marvel, I believe.)
McNutt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:37 am
Donner's first Superman remains one of the best superhero movies made.
I completely agree.
HOT TAKE: Donner's Superman isn't all that good, and people's affection for it is 90% driven by nostalgia and affection for the Superman character and Christopher Reeve.
Honestly, the plot is about as ridiculous as WW84, and the villains are about as deep and scary as the villains in Batman Forever.
But as I can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt using this PowerPoint presentation I've just created, you're a poopy head and don't know what you're talking about.
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:36 am
A few are flexible, or take place at roughly the same time. I just followed the order in the article I linked to. The entire story plays out as a single narrative. The only thing that is out of place is one after-credits scene (in Captain Marvel, I believe.)
Thanks. I didn't recall any kind of specific time for those movies (other than the opening flashbacks in both) and the article itself didn't really elaborate on why they were placed where they were.
McNutt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:37 am
Donner's first Superman remains one of the best superhero movies made.
I completely agree.
HOT TAKE: Donner's Superman isn't all that good, and people's affection for it is 90% driven by nostalgia and affection for the Superman character and Christopher Reeve.
Honestly, the plot is about as ridiculous as WW84, and the villains are about as deep and scary as the villains in Batman Forever.
Or where he faces off against his foes, takes away their powers, then, when they're helpless against him, tortures one before murdering him, watches bemusedly while another suicides in front of him, and then chuckles while Lois murders the third?
El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:56 pm
This also makes a lot of sense.
Just because no one has done it YET, doesn't mean it's not possible! No one has ever been to Paraguay, but I'm betting I could if I wanted to. So much for your "proof"...huh?!
Last edited by hepcat on Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jaymann wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:43 pm
My favorite Superman movie moment is the one where he loses his powers and walks to the North Pole in a light jacket.
Now you guys are just being disingenuous. It was a North Face fleece!
El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:56 pm
This also makes a lot of sense.
Just because no one has done it YET, doesn't mean it's not possible! No one has ever been to Paraguay, but I'm betting I could if I wanted to. So much for your "proof"...huh?!
What are you talking about?
There are many NAZI descendants there and maybe some originals.
Rumpy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:14 pm
Yeah, see, it's the charm and innocence of the Superman movie that Supergirl manages to evoke, which is why I like it so much.
Yeah, the CW show, although technically it began on CBS, which is technically what helped it stand out before it fell to the CW mold when it moved there. Not a big fan of all the crossover stuff which began to affect the show when it moved to the CW.
hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:50 pm
Oh, you mean the CW show?
Not really a fan of the CW superhero stuff. I know that makes me a heretic though.
Not a heretic. A lot of people dislike the CW stuff. I'm a fan, but I don't pretend it is because of amazing storytelling. I'm a fan because I love DC, and getting to watch my favorite characters running around doing stuff adds a solid two stars to the rating. I mean, watching Flash battling King Shark is awesome, even if he rationale is terrible and the CGI is discount.
But even I have to choke down Supergirl. There are ways to bring social issues into shows. Shoving it down people's throats with all the subtlety of an Afterschool Special isn't one of them. Compare Supergirl's handling of trans or immigration issues with Black Lightning's handling of race issues.
The first Wonder Woman movie had the same kind of charm and good humor that the first Reeves Superman movie had. This second Wonder Woman movie is a bit of a drag, that's the difference to me. I think the writers and director miscalculated with this second movie. Did people want to see a dejected Diana this time? I didn't. Wonder Woman is not Captain America. He was frozen all that time, she wasn't.
Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:35 pm
No, she's much more like a vampire that lost her true love and all her friends due to age and tragedy.
Yeah and she's been living her undead life all that time, how long was it going to take for her to move on? The part where she deals with her grief should have happened long ago, setting the movie in the '80s implies we are past that. Set it in the World War II era and that aspect of the story makes more sense.
hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:50 pm
Oh, you mean the CW show?
Not really a fan of the CW superhero stuff. I know that makes me a heretic though.
Not a heretic. A lot of people dislike the CW stuff. I'm a fan, but I don't pretend it is because of amazing storytelling. I'm a fan because I love DC, and getting to watch my favorite characters running around doing stuff adds a solid two stars to the rating. I mean, watching Flash battling King Shark is awesome, even if he rationale is terrible and the CGI is discount.
But even I have to choke down Supergirl. There are ways to bring social issues into shows. Shoving it down people's throats with all the subtlety of an Afterschool Special isn't one of them. Compare Supergirl's handling of trans or immigration issues with Black Lightning's handling of race issues.
To be fair, Supergirl only became that way once it became a CW show. When it was a CBS show, which I think was the first 3 seasons, it was a better show and did far less of that. As a CBS show, it had much better stories, then as a CW show they felt compelled for it to be part of the Arrowverse.
Only watch this video if you've seen the movie or dont ever plan to. I dont plan to so I watched it. Worth it
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I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake. http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
