COVID-19 treatment and vaccine update thread

[Lorini]

I don't mean to compare the diseases with each other. I'm talking about efficacy rates soley. For one, the flu doesn't appear to cause the extremely debilitating symptoms that Covid causes, not to mention the death rates are much higher for Covid obviously.

[Max Peck]

Experts caution against the temptation to comparison shop COVID-19 vaccines

While it's tempting to compare various aspects of AstraZeneca-Oxford's newly approved COVID-19 vaccine to others, several experts cautioned against focusing on data that is not comparable and the danger of underrating the product's ability to curb hospitalizations and deaths.

Health Canada's long-awaited announcement Friday that a third vaccine would soon be deployed came just as the provinces faced heightened scrutiny over regional immunization plans that vary by timeline, age eligibility and priority groups.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau promised the boost to Canada's pandemic arsenal would mean “more people vaccinated, and sooner,” and would be key to helping contain spread.

Nevertheless, Health Canada chief medical advisor Dr. Supriya Sharma acknowledged questions over how the public should evaluate trial results that show AstraZeneca has an efficacy of 62 per cent in preventing symptomatic cases. That's compared to the 95 per cent efficacy of the country's two other approved vaccines, from Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna.

But Sharma stressed that all three have been shown to prevent 100 per cent of hospitalizations and deaths due to COVID-19.

“Each vaccine has unique characteristics and Health Canada's review has confirmed that the benefits of the viral vector-based vaccine, as with the other authorized vaccines, outweigh their potential risks,” Sharma said.

Several medical experts including Dr. Stephen Hwang say Canadians do not have the luxury to pick-and-choose as long as COVID-19 cases continue to rage in several hot spots and strain health-care systems.

With multiple COVID-19 projections warning of a variant-fuelled third wave without tighter suppression measures, any tool that can slow the pandemic should be embraced, he argued.

“It would be important for people to be vaccinated with whichever vaccine is first available in their community to them, rather than trying to hold out for a specific vaccine,” advised Hwang, who treats COVID-19 patients at St. Michael's Hospital in Toronto.

[Default]

My ex gets vaccinated tomorrow. Parents were given the choice to send their children back to school, and she had about half a class r/l and half virtual.

Until the r/l class parents found out that their children would undergo periodic C-19 testing, and the parents would not be notified when the kids would be tested. She has one child in her classroom now.

[Kraken]

Younger military personnel are passing on vaccination.

WASHINGTON — Americans who go into the military understand the loss of personal liberty. Many of their daily activities are prescribed, as are their hairstyles, attire and personal conduct.

So when it comes to taking a coronavirus vaccine, many troops — especially younger enlisted personnel as opposed to their officers — see a rare opportunity to exercise free will.

“The Army tells me what, how and when to do almost everything,” said Sgt. Tracey Carroll, who is based at Fort Sill, an Army post in Oklahoma. “They finally asked me to do something and I actually have a choice, so I said no.”

Carroll, 24, represents a broad swath of members of the military — a largely young, healthy set of Americans from every corner of the nation — who are declining to get the shot, which for now is optional among personnel. They cite an array of political and health-related concerns.

But this reluctance among younger troops is a warning to civilian health officials about the potential hole in the broad-scale immunity that medical professionals say is needed for Americans to reclaim their collective lives.

...which raises the question of why they have that choice. It seems to me that keeping military barracks disease-free is a national security issue.

The vaccine, unlike many other inoculations, is not required by the military at this time because it has been approved for emergency use by the Food and Drug Administration. Once it becomes a standard, approved vaccine, the military can order troops to take the shot.

Oh. OK then.

[Lorini]

Probably because just in case there's something seriously wrong with the vaccine we don't want our entire military sick/dead? Folks the emergency approval is not a full approval, it's not the same. Everyone treats it as the same and the full approval is expected to be given at some point, but yeah I have no issue with the military having the vaccine but not forced to take it.

[jztemple2]

My wife and I (ages 65+) held off getting vaccine appointments since she's still recovering from back surgery, but she's now doing well enough that this morning I got up at 7am (early for me) and got on the computer for the Publix supermarket's vaccine sign-up. The system is that you wait on a page while a one minute timer runs down over and over again, and *if* there is an open booking slot a button will appear that says "book an appointment". Below is a list of counties and what percentage of appointments they had left, also updated every minute.

So I was on there when the bookings started at 7am and waited and waited. I did have a book but I had to train myself to stop reading every 50 seconds so I could look up and check to see if it was my turn. 42 minutes in there were no more appointments for my county, but the adjacent county still had some openings. Finally after 55 minutes it was my turn and I managed to get myself an appointment two days from now at a Publix about 45 minutes away. And went back to the page and quickly got my wife an appointment at the same place, but a day later.

So not too bad an experience, but I'll be happy when we are through with the shots, since something else might pop up

UPDATE: I should also mention what fun it was to trying to book an appointment where the site would let you select a date, then a time, and then when you clicked the "Confirm" button it would tell you that someone else has just taken that slot and please go back and re-enter a lot of the same medical info once again . I had this happen about five times on my appointment and I was just about to throw in the towel when it finally booked it .

[Jag]

Signed up online for a shot at CVS on Friday and just got my Pfizer shot today at a CVS in South Florida. I'm guessing they are making it easier now to get a shot since I didn't have to say anything. They just gave it to me.

[LordMortis]

Signed up online for a shot at CVS on Friday and just got my Pfizer shot today at a CVS in South Florida. I'm guessing they are making it easier now to get a shot since I didn't have to say anything. They just gave it to me.

For the pharmacies (in Michigan) if you are in their registry they already have everything they need. From all accounts I've heard, the pharmacies (CVS in particular around here) are moving this to where it should have been moved promptly in December. "I want a shot." "OK, you're you and now you are in line. We'll let you know when you're up."

[YellowKing]

My wife's getting her first Pfizer dose this Wednesday. That's going to be a relief, as she is the last of my family (aside from the kids) to get vaccinated. I'll feel a lot better knowing all the kin folk are safe.

[FishPants]

[
Nevertheless, Health Canada chief medical advisor Dr. Supriya Sharma acknowledged questions over how the public should evaluate trial results that show AstraZeneca has an efficacy of 62 per cent in preventing symptomatic cases. That's compared to the 95 per cent efficacy of the country's two other approved vaccines, from Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna.

But Sharma stressed that all three have been shown to prevent 100 per cent of hospitalizations and deaths due to COVID-19.

Ok but they still won't answer the question if you aren't hospitalized, does that mean you don't have long lasting effects and damage? If you DO have long lasting effects, take the AZ vaccine and shove it, and get the mRNA vaccines out (since we paid for enough doses of Pfizer for basically every adult in Canada to get their double dose). Or can I get the AZ vaccine while I wait for something that sucks less?

Anytime the government is out there telling people NOT to compare, in my opinion is exactly why you should compare - there's a difference, they know it and the general public knows it which undermines their vaccination strategy for the OG Corona. Unfortunately the OG corona isn't what's spreading like wildfire at this time. I'm 100% vaccine shopping now that they keep repeating that statement; it's not like I am going to be returning to the office and normal life anytime soon anyways.

[Lorini]

[
Nevertheless, Health Canada chief medical advisor Dr. Supriya Sharma acknowledged questions over how the public should evaluate trial results that show AstraZeneca has an efficacy of 62 per cent in preventing symptomatic cases. That's compared to the 95 per cent efficacy of the country's two other approved vaccines, from Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna.

But Sharma stressed that all three have been shown to prevent 100 per cent of hospitalizations and deaths due to COVID-19.

Ok but they still won't answer the question if you aren't hospitalized, does that mean you don't have long lasting effects and damage? If you DO have long lasting effects, take the AZ vaccine and shove it, and get the mRNA vaccines out (since we paid for enough doses of Pfizer for basically every adult in Canada to get their double dose). Or can I get the AZ vaccine while I wait for something that sucks less?

Anytime the government is out there telling people NOT to compare, in my opinion is exactly why you should compare - there's a difference, they know it and the general public knows it which undermines their vaccination strategy for the OG Corona. Unfortunately the OG corona isn't what's spreading like wildfire at this time. I'm 100% vaccine shopping now that they keep repeating that statement; it's not like I am going to be returning to the office and normal life anytime soon anyways.

The issue with comparing and why they are concerned about it is that every day you don't get a vaccine waiting for the 'right' vaccine is a day you could get Covid, be hospitalized, and possibly die.

[Blackhawk]

But if the people in one district get full immunity, and the people in the next district get lifelong, debilitating conditions, it's reason to start asking questions.

[Lorini]

But if the people in one district get full immunity, and the people in the next district get lifelong, debilitating conditions, it's reason to start asking questions.

I don't understand this Blackhawk. Maybe it's too early in the AM for me??

[El Guapo]

Is it not the case that two doses of Moderna and/or Pfizer is more effective at preventing infections than one dose of J&J? I get that J&J is also very effective (I guess equally effective) at preventing the worst outcomes, but if the former is the case then it still seems like it might make sense to hold off on taking J&J in favor of taking one of the others?

Also, are they testing two doses of J&J as well? I was reading something that was suggesting that it may be that J&J is equally effective, but that you get more protection from the others because you'd be getting two doses.

[Smoove_B]

(Kinda) related, but if anyone wants to read about vaccine inequity, that's a great article.

I cannot emphasize enough that public health is trying...many of my peers are recognizing that the way we've done things for decades has been misguided. Not that we were intentionally doing things, but that our own education/training/filters were unfortunately adding bias into how we viewed problems and offered solutions.

And yes, there's been lots of discussions about whether or not the J&J vaccines are going to be shuffled off to marginalized communities and somehow magically the Moderna/Pfizer vaccines are going to be offered in wealthy/white communities. The fact that it's even being discussed is something I never thought I'd see, quite frankly. I think it's going to be a complicated answer only because of the supply shift. If we had equal supply of all vaccine types it would be easy to track where they are going and the demographics of the people receiving them. But the ebb and flow of what's being shipped is going to make that more complicated. It might look like (for example) the J&J vaccine is being disproportionately offered to minority communities, but the truth is that they were likely excluded from the first wave of vaccines being offered - going back to the article.

Regarding vaccine shopping, that's a statement of privilege without question. The current convention is that if you're offered a shot, you take it. Any vaccine is better than no vaccine. Not only for your own health, but for those around you. Comparing isn't a 1:1 match; it's a wasted effort because the trial parameters were different for Moderna/Pfizer vs J&J. Once again, Dr. Fauci is the one to listen to on this.

[Daehawk]

If its a 2 dose thing and one dose of any of them is about the same why isn't J&J 2 doses?

[Smoove_B]

If its a 2 dose thing and one dose of any of them is about the same why isn't J&J 2 doses?

That's just how it is. Like how some video cards have heat pipes and others use fans. Both result in cooling but accomplish it in different ways and to a different degree.

Slightly more technical - the Moderna/Pfizer vaccine are using mRNA to boost immunity whereas the J&J vaccine is using a weakened virus instead. If you want to read more, the WHO published a good overview in January.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

SC is planning to move to Phase 1B next week. I’m not entirely sure, but I may be eligible at that phase. It certainly seems as if we have enough available vaccines....

[Daehawk]

I have no idea when i can get one.

[Blackhawk]

And yes, there's been lots of discussions about whether or not the J&J vaccines are going to be shuffled off to marginalized communities and somehow magically the Moderna/Pfizer vaccines are going to be offered in wealthy/white communities.

Disclaimer: There's not enough good info right now. What I'm about to write is more about perception than hard data, but perception matters.

From what I've read, poorer communities typically have lesser infrastructure, so a one-dose is easier to manage than two per person (it's easy to give a one-dose vaccine to the homeless, and borderline impossible to keep track of them to give them all two-dose vaccines), plus the J&J vaccine doesn't need special storage that poor communities don't always have access to. The J&J vaccine is possibly the lesser option (again, it's better than nothing, and possibly good enough, but the perception is that it's the discount vaccine.) And as poorer communities tend to have a lot more minorities, there is the potential that rich white people will be getting the best of the best, while the poor and minorities will be getting the lesser product. That article talked about a two tier system with rich people and the rest of us. The fear right now is that we're getting a three-tier system: The rich people who skip the lines and get what they want, the average people who wait in line for the good stuff, and the poor who get handed the leftovers (again, the disclaimer - that's the fear, nobody seems to know the reality.)

And to be clear, some of this is necessity (our fault, but necessity at this point.) Infrastructure and coordination of the process means that it may be the only way to get those communities taken care of with the speed we have to move from a practical standpoint, but perception is a bitch, and the perception may be that the poor and minorities are being brushed off onto the lowest priority.

[FishPants]

Regarding vaccine shopping, that's a statement of privilege without question. The current convention is that if you're offered a shot, you take it. Any vaccine is better than no vaccine. Not only for your own health, but for those around you. Comparing isn't a 1:1 match; it's a wasted effort because the trial parameters were different for Moderna/Pfizer vs J&J. Once again, Dr. Fauci is the one to listen to on this.

If I take the AZ vaccine, and by doing so that precludes me from getting the Pfizer vaccine for a year - then I don't think it's privilege at all. It's asking the right questions and taking control of my own life - I think our government (in Canada) is whitewashing the problem by allowing AZ -- up here the federal government has been (rightfully) criticized relentlessly on shitting the bed for vaccine delivery to date; and it would appear by allowing the AZ vaccine it changes the conversation to number of people vaccinated with "something" versus the proper thing.

Already we (Canada) have panels of experts saying not to use it in over 65+ seniors -- flatly because "There are no concerns that the vaccine is unsafe for use, but the NACI panel said in its recommendations the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna are preferred for people 65 years old and above “due to suggested superior efficacy.”" <-- which is exactly my point.

Something is better than nothing, but if that something now means I can't get the better vaccine when it's available until next year when it's vaccine time again? Forget it, I'm not interested and will roll the dice - or I will pay to fly/drive somewhere for my family to get vaccinated with the mRNA vaccine. I stay at home, I wear a mask, I will continue to do so until I can get appropriate protection -- this AZ vaccine is looking like smoke in mirrors and won't do much for our (Canada's) third wave that is predominantly variant based.

[Paingod]

Our go-to local children's hospital just started accepting volunteers for a trial on kids 6-16. We've signed up our three, but have to wait to see if they get accepted.

I hope the trial is all "actual vaccine" and not 50/50 placebo. I wouldn't want to think my kids were safe only to discover at a later date (maybe when one got sick) that they had received a water injection.

[Smoove_B]

Regarding Blackhawk's commentary: yeah, that's all valid. I think if the initial rollout wasn't such a mess - especially in NY and NJ where the vaccines are absolutely going to wealthier, white people. I don't have more current data, but from the end of January:

The majority of vaccines (41 percent) administered in New Jersey have been received by white, non-Hispanic residents.

That figure falls to 7.3 percent for Asian, non-Hispanic residents, to 6.1 percent for Hispanic Latinos, and to 4.2 percent for Black, non-Hispanic New Jerseyans.

And I think so much of that is tied to how signups were offered (only online) and vaccinations provided (larger sites, requiring transportation). I don't think it was an intentional set of choices, it just didn't fully consider the best way to get vaccines to the people that likely needed it the most. Instead, the systems created an offering designed to vaccinate the greatest number of people in the most efficient way.

If this doesn't highlight the importance for change, I don't know what will.

[ImLawBoy]

Our go-to local children's hospital just started accepting volunteers for a trial on kids 6-16. We've signed up our three, but have to wait to see if they get accepted.

I hope the trial is all "actual vaccine" and not 50/50 placebo. I wouldn't want to think my kids were safe only to discover at a later date (maybe when one got sick) that they had received a water injection.

It'll likely be a blind trial with placebo, but we're OK with that. We'll treat the kids as though they're not vaccinated, and at the end of these types of trials the subjects who got a placebo typically get the regular vaccine.

[stessier]

SC is planning to move to Phase 1B next week. I’m not entirely sure, but I may be eligible at that phase. It certainly seems as if we have enough available vaccines....

I think I may as well. Really hoping so anyway.

[Smoove_B]

Something is better than nothing, but if that something now means I can't get the better vaccine when it's available until next year when it's vaccine time again? Forget it, I'm not interested and will roll the dice - or I will pay to fly/drive somewhere for my family to get vaccinated with the mRNA vaccine. I stay at home, I wear a mask, I will continue to do so until I can get appropriate protection -- this AZ vaccine is looking like smoke in mirrors and won't do much for our (Canada's) third wave that is predominantly variant based.

I'll fully admit I haven't been following what's happening in Canada all that closely - delivery, messaging and everything in between.

I don't think waiting until 2022 for any vaccination would be advisable in any case; I've not seen any type of domestic advice here in the U.S. that would advocate for that plan. Granted, we're not dealing with the AZ vaccination so it's hard to say what things would be like if we were. There is definitely a "vaccine shopping" movement happening between our two varieties and I think the CDC, states and locals need to come out hard against it. The longer the virus is able to circulate because vaccination levels don't hit the magic unknowable number that stops spread, the worse off we all are - including those already vaccinated. It's a numbers game right now and we (humans) should be doing everything we can to stop the raging forest fire that's been going unchecked for over a year now.

I have no idea when i can get one.

Tell me what county you live in and I can aim you in the right direction. It will likely be through your county health agency, but perhaps there are corporate pharmacies offering them as well. Here in parts of NJ WalMart is providing them to people over the age of 75, though it's not being widely communicated.

[Daehawk]

Daehawk wrote:
I have no idea when i can get one.

Tell me what county you live in and I can aim you in the right direction. It will likely be through your county health agency, but perhaps there are corporate pharmacies offering them as well. Here in parts of NJ WalMart is providing them to people over the age of 75, though it's not being widely communicated.

My local family pharmacy plans to do them just not sure when. If I can get it there I dont mind waiting. Im not doing drive through due to the crazy amounts of reactions these shots are getting. And the place must be trained in shots and safety and have epi pens. Im not allergic to anything but not taking chances with this by driving away and having a problem that could kill me or others I might kill because of it. Also dont want to be sitting in a car and no one see whats happening or cant get out to me quick.

I wouldn't get a spoon of cough medicine from Walmart.

[Smoove_B]

I'm not trying to convince you to get a drive-through shot, only confirming the process. If you've never had a reaction to a vaccination before (anaphylaxis ), it's highly unlikely you'd have one here. After you get the vaccination, you'll be directed to park in a spot and wait for ~15 minutes to make sure nothing happens, all while staff are circulating around the lot and watching for anyone having a problem. All the screening they're going to do before you get the shot minimizes the risk of something happening (the form and questions you'll answer), but don't let the random news stories about reactions confuse the issue. There's nothing to suggest the rate of events is any higher than what we see for regular vaccinations. It's making news because it's new and scary.

[Max Peck]

Ford government wants to push back second dose of COVID-19 vaccines to four months

Ontario may push back the administration of second doses of the Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines to four months in an attempt get more shots into the arms of residents.

British Columbia announced on Monday that it would push back the administration of second doses following new research suggesting that both vaccines offer protection of at least 90 per cent after just one shot.

In a statement issued on Monday afternoon, Health Minister Christine Elliott and Solicitor General Sylvia Jones said that the province is “actively engaged” with the National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI) regarding potential updated direction on second dose intervals with “the goal of pursuing a similar direction to British Columbia.”

“By safely extending the dose interval, Ontario would reach more at-risk Ontarians with our vaccine rollout, and potentially offer the vaccine to the general population much earlier than originally planned,” the statement reads. “We also remain steadfastly committed to ensuring everyone who receives their first dose is provided maximum protection by receiving their second dose as informed by scientific knowledge.”

The federal government has recommended that second doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech be administered within 42 days of the first.

But last month, two Canadian doctors submitted a letter to the New England Journal of Medicine, which used U.S. data to suggest that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine could be 92 per cent effective against COVID-19 two weeks following the first dose.

Following the publication of that letter, Deputy Chief Public Health Officer Dr. Howard Njoo told reporters that the “early data” is encouraging and that there are “live” and “ongoing” discussions taking place at the federal level regarding dosing intervals.

Ontario officials, however, said at the time that they weren’t planning to change their dosing guidance.

“We strongly believe that two doses are required and we strongly believe that two doses should be provided within the 42 days as have been demonstrated by the clinical trials,” Dr. Dirk Huyer, coordinator of the provincial outbreak response, said then.

In their joint statement, Elliot and Jones said that their government is “keenly interested in doing everything possible to get as many vaccines into arms as quickly as possible.”

It should be noted that the federal government has said that second doses of the recently-approved AstraZeneca can be administered up to 12 weeks after the first.

I wonder why the Solicitor General has a stake in the issue.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

I think I may as well. Really hoping so anyway.

Do you have any idea how we will be able to find out if we are eligible for the vaccine? Will we need a doctor's note if we have an underlying condition? I haven't really heard anything about how this is going to work.

[stessier]

I think I may as well. Really hoping so anyway.

Do you have any idea how we will be able to find out if we are eligible for the vaccine? Will we need a doctor's note if we have an underlying condition? I haven't really heard anything about how this is going to work.

Our EHS manager is in contact with DHEC and is supposed to be providing us with guidance shortly. We're guessing we'll need a letter from our employer, but who knows - maybe a badge or pay stub will be enough. I'll let you know what I hear!

[Jag]

I'm not trying to convince you to get a drive-through shot, only confirming the process. If you've never had a reaction to a vaccination before (anaphylaxis ), it's highly unlikely you'd have one here. After you get the vaccination, you'll be directed to park in a spot and wait for ~15 minutes to make sure nothing happens, all while staff are circulating around the lot and watching for anyone having a problem. All the screening they're going to do before you get the shot minimizes the risk of something happening (the form and questions you'll answer), but don't let the random news stories about reactions confuse the issue. There's nothing to suggest the rate of events is any higher than what we see for regular vaccinations. It's making news because it's new and scary.

I definitely had a moderate reaction last night from the first shot, enough that I woke up numerous times, but I also had a much worse reaction from the flu shot I got earlier this year. I have around a billion allergies so I always assume I'll react to everything.

Regardless, I wouldn't let a reaction stop me from getting this vaccine. I think the data so far shows that it is very safe.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Thanks! I imagine in my case I am more likely to get put in 1B due to some health issues rather than my job, so I'm not sure if that's something my employer would be handling. But I really haven't heard anything so, who knows.

[ImLawBoy]

Thanks! I imagine in my case I am more likely to get put in 1B due to some health issues rather than my job, so I'm not sure if that's something my employer would be handling. But I really haven't heard anything so, who knows.

I'm not in your state, obviously, so take this for what it's worth, but I needed to have a letter from my son's pediatrician stating that he qualified as a medically frail child. I saw others there who were presenting some sort of documentation from their employers (presumably) to show that they were qualified under the current phase. I think it's a safe bet to assume you'll need some sort of documentation.

[Smoove_B]

I think it's a safe bet to assume you'll need some sort of documentation.

NJ required nothing and it's been distilled chaos, fwiw.

[coopasonic]

Hmm do I need a note from my doctor to say I'm a smoker? Do I have to start smoking? Can I just maybe like have a cigarette in a plastic baggie or something? I don't really want to touch it or smell it.

[Daehawk]

1c starts in TN next week.

[ImLawBoy]

I think it's a safe bet to assume you'll need some sort of documentation.

NJ required nothing and it's been distilled chaos, fwiw.

Now you may disagree with me on this, but I'm starting to think that New Jersey's handling of the vaccination rollout was suboptimal.

[Kraken]

Is it not the case that two doses of Moderna and/or Pfizer is more effective at preventing infections than one dose of J&J?

The efficacy of the mRNA vaccines was defined before the newer coronavirus strains emerged. Many experts believe that they'd be rated lower if they were reevaluated in today's environment (or conversely, J&J would rate higher if it had been tested many months earlier).

[coopasonic]

I think it's a safe bet to assume you'll need some sort of documentation.

NJ required nothing and it's been distilled chaos, fwiw.

Now you may disagree with me on this, but I'm starting to think that New Jersey's handling of the vaccination rollout was suboptimal.

Is subadequate a word? SubNotTerrible?