Racism in America (with data)

[Octavious]

I think it would be more likely for him to pressure whoever is the governor to do it. I mean even on the right wing sites a lot of the comments were that these guys were toast. So I'd firmly say that they are just f'd.

[Isgrimnur]

CNN

The men each faced the same nine counts, and verdicts were as follows:

• Travis McMichael, who fatally shot Arbery, is guilty on all charges: malice murder, four counts of felony murder, two counts of aggravated assault, false imprisonment and criminal attempt to commit a felony;

• His father, Gregory McMichael, who rode armed in the bed of a pickup truck as his son pursued Arbery, is not guilty of malice murder but guilty on the other eight charges.

• And William "Roddie" Bryan Jr., a neighbor who joined the pursuit and filmed Arbery's final moments, is guilty of three counts of felony murder, one count of aggravated assault, false imprisonment and criminal attempt to commit a felony. Bryan was cleared on the charge of malice murder, felony murder involving aggravated assault with a firearm and the count of aggravated assault with a firearm.
...
The sentencing date for the men is unclear. Prosecutors have indicated they will seek sentences of life in prison without hte possibility of parole.

The McMichaels and Bryan were also indicted on hate crime charges in federal court, where they're scheduled to go on trial in February on counts of interference of rights and attempted kidnapping. The McMichaels each face an additional charge of using, carrying, brandishing and discharging a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence. The men have pleaded not guilty.

Arbery's mother, Wanda Cooper-Jones, has filed civil claims against the McMichaels, Bryan and police and prosecutorial officials.

[Skinypupy]

Feels like this needs to be repeated, given the title of the thread.

Remember, if local authorities in Georgia had their way, no one would have ever been charged for the murder of Ahmaud Arbery.

It took weeks of protest before charges were even brought in the case, 74 days after Arbery was shot and killed in February 2020.

[Octavious]

If these three master criminals didn't film the whole thing it would have been swept under the rug for sure. AMERICA!

[Holman]

President can't pardon state crimes.

Whew thank you. That man has made me instantly think worst case scenarios now.

Georgia is practically a purple state now, with lots of black voters. Kemp pardoning these guys would be his endorsement of Stacey Abrams for his job in 2022.

[Octavious]

With their "enhanced" election laws they can just toss most of them out. The Georgia changes were wayyyy worse than what Texas did. They can pretty much go into a county toss out the people running it and do whatever they want. This ballot has a folded corner rejected!

[Jaymann]

Apparently the defense dropped the ball when he didn't claim the defendants were in fear for their lives from the discolored toenails.

[malchior]

I'm happy with the result but don't forget the system tried to cover this up for them. It took sustained public pressure to get this properly investigated.

[Alefroth]

Why were there four counts of felony murder?

[Isgrimnur]

ABC News

HOW CAN THERE BE FIVE MURDER COUNTS WHEN ONLY ONE PERSON DIED?

In this case, the prosecution is saying that the three men demonstrated “malice aforethought” when they illegally chased Arbery through the streets in pickup trucks and shot him. That's the basis for the malice murder charge.

But they're also saying that the three men intentionally committed four felonies — two counts of aggravated assault and one count each of false imprisonment and criminal attempt to commit false imprisonment — and each of those felonies caused Arbery's death.

[Grifman]

[hepcat]

What are the odds that if the name change was to Trump Ave. or Reagan Ave. it would have been met with enthusiastic support by those decrying this change?

[Jaymann]

Nice to see "Jeff" liked to keep things casual.

[Default]

Intentionally repaint the the signs as Jiff Davis and add peanut stickers.

[Grifman]

I'm happy with the result but don't forget the system tried to cover this up for them. It took sustained public pressure to get this properly investigated.

I'm not clear as to why point 2 is brought up as some indication of the system not working. The prosecutor did the right thing by recusing himself - he certainly couldn't help that he knew the defendants.

[malchior]

The whole thing was pretty messy. I'll let the NY Times do some of the talking. If I remember correctly, he recused himself only after he provided some cover for them despite the conflict. He sent a letter that is exerpted below and the recusal came after sustained public pressure. Also worth mentioning is the local police tried to cover it up. Only after the video which the police had leaked did Kemp insert the GBI into the process. A lot of people worked hard to get justice for this man.

But, before the second prosecutor’s recusal, he said in a letter obtained by The Times:

“It appears Travis McMichael, Greg McMichael and Bryan Williams were following in ‘hot pursuit,’ a burglary suspect, with solid first hand probable cause, in their neighborhood, and asking/telling him to stop. It appears their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until law enforcement arrived. Under Georgia law this is perfectly legal.”

The recused prosecutor’s letter states: “Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia law, McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself.”

Edit: One more interesting piece in the Atlantic talking about the injustice that almost happened here. This was an unordinary result and it seems certain that this isn't normal. Which is bad in my book.

[Kurth]

The turn this thread has taken lately reminds me of an opinion piece in the NYT this past week: How Can Liberals Be More Happy?

We took about 2 seconds to be gratified and express relief that the jury reached the correct verdict and justice was, for once, done. Then we immediately turned to bemoaning and despairing the fact that we were gratified and relieved by a verdict that should have been expected if we lived in a less racist world.

I’m not at all suggesting that we shouldn’t keep our eyes on the fact that the system remains deeply flawed.

But we should remember that it’s ok to be happy that something turned out the way it should have for once.

Edited to add: Also, on further reflection, I’m probably being too casual in characterizing the verdict as one “that should have been expected.” Leading up to the verdict, I was actually deeply pessimistic that the jury would return a guilty verdict. I had read and listened to a number of stories (including a great episode of the Daily) that painted the prosecution as really swimming against the stream on this case given the crazy self defense laws in existence in GA at the time of Arbery’s murder. Those laws were so nutso and so many thought they would result in an innocent verdict for Arbery’s killers that the laws were actually changed after the killing.

So, not only is it ok for us to be happy about this verdict because justice was done, but we can also be happy about this verdict because it was by no means a sure thing that a jury in GA with one black member listened to three white defendants (two of whom had close connections to law enforcement) trot out a defense filled with racist tropes and dog whistles and then proceeded to vote unanimously to find those defendants guilty, even in the face of legitimate legal arguments that may have excused their conduct under the controlling laws at the time.

[Holman]

The turn this thread has taken lately reminds me of an opinion piece in the NYT this past week: How Can Liberals Be More Happy?

We took about 2 seconds to be gratified and express relief that the jury reached the correct verdict and justice was, for once, done. Then we immediately turned to bemoaning and despairing the fact that we were gratified and relieved by a verdict that should have been expected if we lived in a less racist world.

I’m not at all suggesting that we shouldn’t keep our eyes on the fact that the system remains deeply flawed.

But we should remember that it’s ok to be happy that something turned out the way it should have for once.

Modern-day racist lynch gang almost escaped prosecution but got exposed through extraordinary efforts and my response is supposed to be... happiness?

[Kurth]

The turn this thread has taken lately reminds me of an opinion piece in the NYT this past week: How Can Liberals Be More Happy?

We took about 2 seconds to be gratified and express relief that the jury reached the correct verdict and justice was, for once, done. Then we immediately turned to bemoaning and despairing the fact that we were gratified and relieved by a verdict that should have been expected if we lived in a less racist world.

I’m not at all suggesting that we shouldn’t keep our eyes on the fact that the system remains deeply flawed.

But we should remember that it’s ok to be happy that something turned out the way it should have for once.

Modern-day racist lynch gang almost escaped prosecution but got exposed through extraordinary efforts and my response is supposed to be... happiness?

Yes. Yes it is. And see above (edited after your post).

[LawBeefaroni]

It's not over in the Arbery case. Sentencing is still still to come, plus the inevitable appeals. Also federal hate crime trials.

[malchior]

It's a mix for me. Happy with the outcome but unhappy with the circumstances in general.

[Daehawk]

Thought this might be the thread for this . Came across it from 2017 on a teen react channel video. Ill post the original video and the teen react.

Its very NSFW due to wording. Im just posting it because its a powerful video. And plz watch the entire thing before firing off. Its like 7 minutes. If you cant watch a 7 min video plz dont post.

[Grifman]

This is pretty horrifying:

[LawBeefaroni]

Incidentally, the only cop that she said treated her with any sort of dignity was killed in the line of duty earlier this year. She was recently recommended to be suspended posthumously for the arrest.

Young said French was the only officer who showed her "any dignity or respect on the night of the raid," CBS Chicago reported. A spokeswoman for Young identified French as the female officer who arrived at her home 13 minutes into the botched 2019 raid, and walked her to a room so she could get dressed.

"Officer French assisted Ms. Young and allowed her to get dressed, in the privacy of her bedroom. Officer French was the only officer who showed Ms. Young any dignity or respect on the night of the raid," a spokeswoman for Young said in a statement. "Ms. Young is praying for Officer French's family and offers her sincerest condolences to them and all of Officer French's friends and colleagues."

[pr0ner]

Hard to decide whether this should go in here or Political Randomness, but this survey mirrors what I've heard all along, that the term "Latinx" is mainly a white liberal invention and Hispanics aren't always the biggest fans of the use of the term (and don't actively use it themselves).

[LawBeefaroni]

I feel the same way about "people of color" and "BIPOC."

Latinx conjures up images of GenX Latinos. Or a targeted diarrhetic.

[Grifman]

This is just pure evil:

[malchior]

There are so many injustices packed into that article that nearly everyone involved should be absolutely ashamed.

[malchior]

Not sure if there is racism in here - some have alleged it. The idea that a truck driver faced with brakes that had failed and got into a horrible accident was sentenced to a mandatory 110 years...wtf.

[Kraken]

Last week I joined a facebook forum called Braintree Is Everything, where Braintree is the name of my town. Wife had left it a couple of weeks earlier after seeing some racist activity. I had to check it out myself. It was fine until someone posted a story about the Senate confirming Rachael Rollins for our US attorney. It quickly became apparent that I was in a MAGA cesspool, so I disengaged after a couple of snipes. There's just no point in wrestling with a pig. I'm sad that my town is trumpy enough that a group like that has >1,000 members.

[Blackhawk]

Not sure if there is racism in here - some have alleged it. The idea that a truck driver faced with brakes that had failed and got into a horrible accident was sentenced to a mandatory 110 years...wtf.

Disclaimer: I wasn't there for the whole trial, so I don't have the information the jury had.

From what I've read, though, both sides brought up good points. At the same time, a lot of it seems to be attributing intent without any real basis, then making judgments based on that intent. I don't know the truth, and I'm not sure anybody - even the driver - does. But I consider myself a reasonable person, and the article gave me room for doubt. And I'm a firm believer that it's better to let the guilty go free than to punish the innocent.

[malchior]

Not sure if there is racism in here - some have alleged it. The idea that a truck driver faced with brakes that had failed and got into a horrible accident was sentenced to a mandatory 110 years...wtf.

Disclaimer: I wasn't there for the whole trial, so I don't have the information the jury had.

From what I've read, though, both sides brought up good points. At the same time, a lot of it seems to be attributing intent without any real basis, then making judgments based on that intent.

That is what a lot of people who watched it said. The prosecutors assigned 100% bad intent behind every decision. And it hinges on that he didn't make perfect decisions with imperfect information and equipment he might or might not have known was not properly maintained. Especially since the equipment belonged to his customer. Someone mentioned in the twitter thread that it was a case of massive overcharging. They threw dozens of charges at him for what was ultimately a series of decisions made under extreme stress. And on top, he ended up with a harsher sentence probably than someone who killed people intentionally.

I don't know the truth, and I'm not sure anybody - even the driver - does. But I consider myself a reasonable person, and the article gave me room for doubt. And I'm a firm believer that it's better to let the guilty go free than to punish the innocent.

I'm not even sure he isn't guilty of something but it seems like they did everything they could to make sure he was disproportionately punished. Is that race at play? Hard to tell but I'm considering it in the evaluation. Do I think they'd have done this to a white guy in the same situation? It is hard to believe that'd be the case.

[Blackhawk]

That is what a lot of people who watched it said. They assigned 100% bad intent because the uy didn't make perfect decisions with imperfect information and equipment he might or might not have known but was ultimately badly maintained equipment that belonged to his customer.

One thing that I don't know - is the driver responsible for checking? Is he responsible for testing the systems, checking maintenance logs, etc? The argument as to whether he knew the brakes were bad becomes largely moot if the regulations say that he's responsible for knowing. Should have known is something that comes up a lot in court (although I'm way more familiar with civil liability than I am with criminal law, and I'm still not even remotely a lawyer.)

[Skinypupy]

Implementing a bounty system allowing people to sue schools for "teaching CRT", which is something they can't even begin to actually define.

This should end well.

In his never-ending quest to be more MAGA than any other Governor, Desantis this morning announces his ‘Stop WOKE Act’ to create a private right of action, modeled after TX abortion law, to sue schools if they catch them teaching CRT.

[LawBeefaroni]

I mean let's be honest, flat screens are not only cooler, they are far more energy efficient.

[malchior]

Implementing a bounty system allowing people to sue schools for "teaching CRT", which is something they can't even begin to actually define.

This should end well.

It's almost like some of us were just talking about how this might get out of control. Maybe all this bounty nonsense will all be a flash in the pan or it'll be really bad. Who knows right now but our capacity for dysfunction seems to keep contorting in different directions.

[Holman]

I believe I read that "Stop WOKE" also penalizes corporations that (somehow) include CRT in their training or policies. You'd have to look pretty hard for a more obvious violation of the 1st amendment.

As an educator, I feel this kind of shit pretty seriously. I guess someone will step up soon and make themselves a test case for the legality of this kind of curricular censorship.

I'd like to see someone write up a lesson plan ostensibly in support of this policy that just happens to include relevant links and keywords. Kids know when they're being bamboozled.

[YellowKing]

I was showing my 80-year old mother-in-law my new TV, and had it turned to a nature show that happened to be showing a family of baboons. She leaned over, nudged me, and out of the blue said, "That's what black people look like."

So please, let's stop teaching that racism is bad since it apparently doesn't exist anymore.

[gbasden]

I was showing my 80-year old mother-in-law my new TV, and had it turned to a nature show that happened to be showing a family of baboons. She leaned over, nudged me, and out of the blue said, "That's what black people look like."

Wow. I have no idea if I would be able to be civil in that kind of scenario. Kudos to you for your restraint.

[Holman]

I was showing my 80-year old mother-in-law my new TV, and had it turned to a nature show that happened to be showing a family of baboons. She leaned over, nudged me, and out of the blue said, "That's what black people look like."

So please, let's stop teaching that racism is bad since it apparently doesn't exist anymore.

I might be able to humor an 80-year-old, especially if I thought she were losing her mental faculties. I'm significantly less forgiving of people near my own age.

I'm from the South, where my 70/80-something relatives were mostly on the wrong side of history in the Civil Rights struggle. I seldom talk with the ones who are still breathing.

Turns out they still vote, though.