Johnson successor Truss to resign or be kicked out of office?

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Carpet_pissr
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign?

Post by Carpet_pissr »

El Guapo wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:38 am can't be bothered to be slick and spend a lot of money on fancy haircuts
Or a super expensive, and very rare $2 comb or brush.

Perhaps hair combs are the new toothbrushes in the UK? :P
Last edited by Carpet_pissr on Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign?

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El Guapo wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:38 am I think part of Johnson's schtick is that he tries to present himself as some semi-dopey man of the people who can't be bothered to be slick and spend a lot of money on fancy haircuts like the professional politicians who are constantly talking down to a robbing the common man. So his haircut is part of that image presentation.
Fancy haircuts... I get my haircuts at Great Clips for $17 and it looks a hell of a lot better than Boris' hair. It makes me wonder what he actually pays to look that bad. I assume much more.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign?

Post by Max Peck »

Why Boris Johnson Gets Away With It
The political reality is that a crisis caused by someone else in a faraway country may have saved Britain’s prime minister from a crisis caused by himself at home.

If one week could somehow sum up Boris Johnson’s chaotic premiership, this was it. Last Saturday, Johnson was feted after becoming the first G7 leader to travel to Kyiv since the Russian invasion. He was hailed by Volodymyr Zelensky, cheered by Ukrainians in the streets, and even grudgingly praised by his enemies at home and his critics abroad. Yet within 72 hours, he was once again facing calls to resign, after becoming the first British prime minister to be sanctioned for breaking the law while still in office. He is in every sense the minister of chaos.

In normal circumstances, being fined for breaking lockdown rules to attend his own birthday celebration might well have forced him from office, particularly if it had happened a few months ago, when a tidal wave of revelations about illegal office “parties” in 10 Downing Street during the pandemic appeared to be close to submerging his premiership. The problem was not necessarily one specific party or another but the general deceit, hypocrisy, and disrespect that his rule-breaking seemed to symbolize. Yet by the time the news of the fine dropped on Tuesday, the country seemed to have moved on. The announcement caused an early surge of acrimony, but barely seemed to lap at Johnson’s feet by the end of the day, even if plenty of polling evidence suggests that his popularity has been permanently damaged. The prime minister simply apologized, paid the fine, and vowed to continue in his post. The Conservative Party did not move against him.

Johnson’s luck may still run out: Britain’s Metropolitan Police is investigating a series of other potentially illegal parties that took place at Downing Street on his watch and could issue more fines, triggering another potentially fatal crisis. Yet, for now at least, he survives.

In one sense, Johnson is simply lucky. The timing of the fine—a paltry £50 ($65)—could hardly have been better for the prime minister. Not only did it come during the Easter break, when Parliament was not sitting and much of the country was on holiday, but it came at the very moment when he was basking in the glory of his visit to Kyiv and the diplomatic success of the hawkish position he has taken toward Russia since Vladimir Putin’s invasion. In fact, it’s not a stretch to say that the war in Ukraine may have saved Johnson.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign?

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Simply lucky? That's an interesting way to shrug away that when he was under maximum pressure the Grey report was delayed for this investigation to begin. And it just happened to drop the fine when no one is around. It is preposterous to think this is just happenstance. It's sleaze all he way down.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign?

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:46 am Simply lucky? That's an interesting way to shrug away that when he was under maximum pressure the Grey report was delayed for this investigation to begin. And it just happened to drop the fine when no one is around. It is preposterous to think this is just happenstance. It's sleaze all he way down.
Yup. Honestly I don't know enough about the situation in Britain to fairly assess the corruption / political pressure angle here, but treating it as plum luck seems naive to me.

But what's really sad here is that I look at this and think how much healthier their political system is. Like, there's no way that something like that happening here would generate any material pressure at all to resign, right? I don't think it would even generate sustained coverage in the media.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign?

Post by Max Peck »

The article leads off with the take that Johnson was lucky in the sense of the Russo-Ukrainian war providing a timely distraction, but the main gist of the overall article is that he makes his own luck, one way or another, and that he's not so much lucky as doggedly perseverant in his pursuit of opportunity and power, even in the face of multiple misadventures that should have ended his career.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign?

Post by malchior »

Chaos in parliament as Johnson apologizes but claims he never misled. It seems that Johnson will probably survive this as he is only facing relatively few calls for his resignation in his own party now but it'll come down to how much the public badgers folks I imagine.
A Conservative MP has submitted a letter of no confidence in Boris Johnson and accused the Prime Minister of not being ‘worthy’ of his position.

Former Tory chief whip Mark Harper made the damning intervention on the first day that the PM appeared in the Commons following his fine for breaking his own Covid laws.

Mr Harper tweeted his letter to the chair of the 1922 Committee of backbench
Conservatives, Sir Graham Brady, stating that he no longer has confidence in Mr Johnson’s leadership.

He also told MPs: ‘Our country needs a Prime Minister who exemplifies those values.

‘I regret to say that we have a Prime Minister who broke the laws that he told the country they had to follow, hasn’t been straightforward about it and is now going to ask the decent men and women on these (Conservative) benches to defend what I think is indefensible.

‘I am very sorry to have to say this but I no longer think that he is worthy of the great office that he holds.’
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign?

Post by malchior »

Reports that Boris Johnson called in Sue Gray and may have pressured her to drop a report into his alleged COVID law breaking. Even if this explosive allegation isn't true, in what world does having a private meeting with the lead on an investigation against yourself be thought to be a good idea? British politics seemingly are suffering through a major meltdown of their own right now.
Boris Johnson suggested that Sue Gray should drop her plans to publish her report into lockdown-breaking parties in No 10 during a secret meeting.

Downing Street admitted yesterday that it had requested the face-to-face consultation between the senior civil servant and the prime minister earlier this month but refused to disclose what was discussed.

Two Whitehall sources said the prime minister suggested that Gray did not need to publish her full report, given the investigation by Scotland Yard. “He asked her is there much point in doing it now that it’s all out there,” a source said. “He was inferring that she didn’t need to publish the report.”
Edit: If you want to see the insanity in action - here is an interviewer asking straight forward questions to the Education Minister and he gives absolutely absurd answers and tries to deflect. I can't imagine what the British public thinks about this.

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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign?

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The highest level of integrity and independence doesn’t have a private meeting with the target of the investigation.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign?

Post by malchior »

Zarathud wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:03 am The highest level of integrity and independence doesn’t have a private meeting with the target of the investigation.
That's the tough part. The PM's office is obscuring the context. If her boss the PM ordered her to meet, what were the alternatives then? I don't know their civil service rules but it's definitely a real pickle conceptually. The PMs office rightly should be dragged for intentionally throwing mud on the investigation. The report is released tomorrow and if she doesn't mention/explain that meeting then she will be asked a lot of tough questions herself.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign?

Post by Unagi »

I mean, the UK has some of the finest foxes. And that is to say nothing of their chickens... their chickens are of the highest integrity.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »

Johnson faces removal by his own party after the Gray report shredded his credibility. Several long-time boosters publicly came out against him today ahead of a no confidence vote that may be very close either way.

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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »

Voting is under way but this is almost certainly the beginning of the end for him no matter how the vote goes. Tory no confidence votes have a history of killing Tory Prime Minister's ability to survive politically and wield power.

Edit: He survives but at a level of no confidence that exceeded the ones that caused Thatcher and May to resign. It went 211 voted confidence to 148 voting no confidence. He won't resign but there is a lot of thought that the Tory party is going to have a rough time governing.
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Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

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Enlarge Image
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by Holman »

Conventional Wisdom seems to see this as a crippling blow. Boris stays in power but with negative political capital, and Tories are more or less guaranteed big losses in the next election.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »

Holman wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 4:46 pm Conventional Wisdom seems to see this as a crippling blow. Boris stays in power but with negative political capital, and Tories are more or less guaranteed big losses in the next election.
Right. With a helping that like here perhaps nothing matters anymore and being indecent has a power all its own.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »

Another body blow to Johnson.

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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by Unagi »

Was that, in any way, a call out to the Punch-Out! game?
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »

Unagi wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm Was that, in any way, a call out to the Punch-Out! game?
Subconscioualy very possible. :lol:
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by Unagi »

malchior wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:35 pm
Unagi wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm Was that, in any way, a call out to the Punch-Out! game?
Subconscioualy very possible. :lol:
Excellent. Thank you.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »

More resignations come in. None are as consequential as the two earlier but a sign that Johnson's grip on power is crumbling.

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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »

A little background if anyone is curious what precipitated this, he recently survived a vote of no confidence which usually is a death sentence for a PM. May/Thatcher left within about 6 months after they survived theirs.

In this case, his premiership is under new attack due to a sex scandal. A senior Tory official - the unfortunately named Christopher Pincher - was accused by two male Tories of groping them at a gentleman's club. Pincher up until June 30th was deputy whip in Parliament for the Tories. The incident occurred on June 29th and he resigned as deputy chief whip the next day. He still remains in his chair as MP for Tamsworth. It then came out that there had been allegations of prior misconduct and Johnson admitted he not only knew about them but gave Pincher the job despite them.

That has led to a spectacular meltdown as yet another round of Johnson flavored sleaze was exposed. Many of Johnson's top boosters are throwing in the towel as they realize that they made severe mistakes supporting him. It's rats leaving a sinking ship. Worse these rate all knew he was manifestly unfit for the job all along. I'm not sure if Prime Minister Questions is still on for tomorrow but it'll be very, very rough for Johnson if it happens. He'll likely have many gunning for him and attacking his integrity.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »

I've seen enough from this PMQ - Boris Johnson won't leave unless his party makes him. Keir Starmer asked him specific questions about his judgement in this and other questions. Johnson just pretended the questions weren't asked and stammered, blustered, and bullied his way through non-sequiturs. It's pretty obvious that Johnson is chaos. Now it's the slow grind to see if/when his government collapses.
PMQ wrote:Has the PM ever used the phrase 'Pincher by name, pincher by nature' - "yes or no?" asks Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer.

Johnson did not answer the question.
Edit:L One of the two minister's who resigned Sajid Javid gave a resignation statement directly after PMQ to Parliament. It was not kind to Johnson to say the least.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by Carpet_pissr »

LOL! Was that question delivered in typical British deadpan humor style?
:character-sebastian:

Hilarious.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:56 am LOL! Was that question delivered in typical British deadpan humor style?
:character-sebastian:

Hilarious.
It was actually a little angry to be honest. Keir Starmer is a stern, prosecutorial type (he was one at one point) and it is straight accusation which he clearly knows is provable. The whole thing is a bit sad to be honest. I hate seeing another long time democracy at the mercy of a garbage demagogue like Boris Johnson.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:13 am I've seen enough from this PMQ - Boris Johnson won't leave unless his party makes him. Keir Starmer asked him specific questions about his judgement in this and other questions. Johnson just pretended the questions weren't asked and stammered, blustered, and bullied his way through non-sequiturs. It's pretty obvious that Johnson is chaos. Now it's the slow grind to see if/when his government collapses.
PMQ wrote:Has the PM ever used the phrase 'Pincher by name, pincher by nature' - "yes or no?" asks Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer.

Johnson did not answer the question.
Edit:L One of the two minister's who resigned Sajid Javid gave a resignation statement directly after PMQ to Parliament. It was not kind to Johnson to say the least.
So what's the process (if any) by which the Tories would force him to leave? And how can Johnson still have majority support in Parliament at this point?

Also - what exactly is the point of a no confidence vote if the PM has to go if he loses, but also has to go if he wins?
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »

El Guapo wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:05 amSo what's the process (if any) by which the Tories would force him to leave? And how can Johnson still have majority support in Parliament at this point?
The most likely path people are talking is either waiting a year to have another no confidence vote. Perhaps circumstances will have changed. The other being bandied is that there is an upcoming internal Tory election that could impact the ability to change party rules and force another no confidence vote. You can already hear the argument against it (I JUST WON ONE AND YOU CHANGED THE RULES!) but the UK is facing governmental chaos right now.

The Tories have to be weighing that this is going to kill their ability to win elections (they just lost 2) and have to thinking about saving the party. Labour is pushing for a snap election which is a no brainer for them. Sentiment for the Tories is in the basement. Johnson is poisoning their brand and trying to bluster on by just refusing to quit. His only hope is to rally enough support. To that end, already unsavory people close to him are resigning in droves, which of course means bottom feeders who don't care about supporting someone with no integrity are being fitted to fill the gaps. It's a real crisis in multiple dimensions.
Also - what exactly is the point of a no confidence vote if the PM has to go if he loses, but also has to go if he wins?
This is the argument Johnson makes. He blusters about how he won a vote and it's a democracy. I think the explanation I heard best is this flies in the face of British political norms. It is the party politely showing them the door and giving the PM time to wrap up affairs. If it was not especially close, you could argue he has the vast majority of a majority. In the recent case, he showed had little over half of the majority. And for historical perspective, he lost his no confidence vote worse than Thatcher or May. They both left in this scenario. Worse, their votes were about disagreements over policy (e.g. May's inability to deliver Brexit). His issues are almost entirely about his actual integrity so the scandals have a different character. 2/3s of the British public wants him to go at this point.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

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Someone has to leave office for scandals? How quaint.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »

Jaymann wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:49 am Someone has to leave office for scandals? How quaint.
Remains to be seen. It looks like another front just opened against him as another senior cabinet member said he needs to go tonight (Michael Gove). Other MPs in his own party just demanded his resignation as well. If he survives this, it will be because he refuses to be decent. Then it'll be on the Tories to figure out how to extricate them from the mess they made of their nation.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »

In more crazy, back in 2019 the Observer ran a story that Johnson met a former Russian agent by himself when he was Foreign Secretary during a trip in 2018. He has been repeatedly asked if it was true. His answer today? He "probably" met the agent. This is important because he has been pressed about not sanctioning that agent.

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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:28 am In more crazy, back in 2019 the Observer ran a story that Johnson met a former Russian agent by himself when he was Foreign Secretary during a trip in 2018. He has been repeatedly asked if it was true. His answer today? He "probably" met the agent. This is important because he has been pressed about not sanctioning that agent.

Isn't it worse if he's meeting the guy on a "personal engagement"?
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »

You'd think. It has drifted into the bizarre to be sure. This outcome is why I do think the parliamentary system is just far superior. That the PM can be compelled to speak to committees like this and has to regularly answer questions is just heads and shoulders better than this stupid system we have.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »

Fast and furious updates. This includes his replacement Chancellor Zawahiri who was promoted last night. It looks like his time is up.

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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by Smoove_B »

I'd listened for about 30 minutes this morning to the BBC news hour and it was interesting to try and follow. First I'd heard from someone claiming that any effort to remove Johnson would "inject toxicity" into the democratic process as he'd been rightfully placed by the will of the people to enact a mandate in 2019. Shades of American politics, quite frankly.

But then the next set of guests going over the process for what should happen next - either he resigns or they remove him was my take. Opinions varied on how long that would be. One of the guests said by tomorrow, another was saying it could be weeks. The general opinion though was that it wasn't a question of "if" anymore, only "when" - that Boris Johnson was effectively out and it's just a matter of him accepting it now or later.

I don't understand the Parliamentary process at all but the idea that they could actually do *something* was fascinating to listen to.

Also, F Mitch McConnell.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:56 am I'd listened for about 30 minutes this morning to the BBC news hour and it was interesting to try and follow. First I'd heard from someone claiming that any effort to remove Johnson would "inject toxicity" into the democratic process as he'd been rightfully placed by the will of the people to enact a mandate in 2019. Shades of American politics, quite frankly.
That was a panel directly after PMQ. It definitely is a representative for a weaker version of the GOP cult. Luckily, it appears he is essentially in a minority group that views loyalty as what matters most. So fuck that guy.
But then the next set of guests going over the process for what should happen next - either he resigns or they remove him was my take. Opinions varied on how long that would be. One of the guests said by tomorrow, another was saying it could be weeks. The general opinion though was that it wasn't a question of "if" anymore, only "when" - that Boris Johnson was effectively out and it's just a matter of him accepting it now or later.
What's breathtaking is he is in front of the Liaison Committee which is sort of a watchdog Committee where he admitted the Russian agent stuff. Then word got into the room that his minister's are walling up to confront him. He was told about it which he deflected and then they got into the sort of discussion that is usually reserved for a backroom. Out in the open.

For example, John refused to answer a question whether he'd do the right thing and step aside and not call an election. Why was it asked? The Tories know they'll get smashed to bits in a snap election so they want him to leave on his own. Otherwise, they'll do anything to force him to leave before things get worse.
I don't understand the Parliamentary process at all but the idea that they could actually do *something* was fascinating to listen to.
It's hard but Johnson like a Trump is a unique force. He knows where all the gaps are and is exploiting them. He is a uniquely dangerous man but there is also zero chance there will be a 1/6 type of response. Mostly because of a lack of a cohesive cult there.
Also, F Mitch McConnell.
Always.
Last edited by malchior on Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Is this ultimately a result of the COVID party faux pas? Or a bunch of smaller stuff just piling up? Seems like there are tons of little niggling things as opposed to ONE BIG THING.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:05 pm Is this ultimately a result of the COVID party faux pas? Or a bunch of smaller stuff just piling up? Seems like there are tons of little niggling things as opposed to ONE BIG THING.
The party thing was what got the ball rolling. It turned the whole country against him. The last few months have been just ethical issue after ethical issue falling out of the sky. And they are all whoppers on their own.

The row that really got the boil going this week was a sexual abuse complaint. That guy (Christopher Pincher) had a previous complaint against him upheld in 2019. Johnson said he didn't know about it. Then a letter was released showing he was directly briefed on the claim. Johnson claims he forgot.

Considering how many times he has been caught lying that is what most take it as. Other explanations are not generous either. For example, an alternate explanation would be he overlooked/forget about an impropriety and then didn't oversee basic fact checking/vetting for a senior leadership position. It looks terrible no way you cut it. To top it off, the guy was promoted to the position that enforces discipline against MPs for bad conduct. Sheesh.

This whole story came out after the guy groped 2 men a week ago. If the 2019 thing came out alone it'd look bad, but with the new allegations for the same type of conduct? What an idiot. Johnson isn't just amoral. He's doesn't do even the most basic levels of ass covering or due diligence.

This is how it's going there. To be clear - these are ministers themselves resigning. Not calls for a resignation. He can't replace all these people. He's done.



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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »



Edit: Latest number is 38 resignations. This has apparently never happened in UK political history. You can watch it tick up 1 or 2 new resignations an hour. Many might be waiting to hear the outcome of the current meeting where many MPs apparently are urging him to resign immediately.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by Carpet_pissr »

The thing on top of his head looks just slightly flatter today, for some reason. Perhaps it's an empathetic organism.
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Re: Boris Johnson to Resign? (Er...kicked out of office?)

Post by malchior »

To put the numbers in perspective. Johnson only survived the no confidence vote by 32 votes. 38 of his own ministers have resigned since yesterday. If another vote is triggered the straightforward math shows he is probably done.
Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:52 pm The thing on top of his head looks just slightly flatter today, for some reason. Perhaps it's an empathetic organism.
LOL.
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