Ukraine

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Unagi
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Unagi »

Russia can't guarantee that American vets captured in Ukraine won’t face the death penalty

Honestly, this is almost funny to me. almost. American's that have gone to the Ukraine have already signed up for the death-penalty. If Russia wants to go the extra mile and start executing POWs - that's exactly the over-reach that these Americans went to fight.
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Max Peck
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Max Peck »

Ukraine-adjacent: What a 1904 War Can Teach Vladimir Putin
When, in an expansionist mood, Russia embarked on an ill-judged war of territorial conquest against its neighbor, it did so with a grandiose sense of its conquering power. Russia’s leader, who ruled nearly as an absolute monarch and held his counterpart next door in contempt, believed that his country’s interests were threatened, that Russia deserved more influence and respect. He had envisioned a scenario in which his enemy would yield quickly in the face of overwhelming odds and accede to Russian territorial demands.

Contrary to the expectations of the sovereign and his military planners, the initial campaign went badly for Russia. This was partly because of snarled supply lines and logistics, but the biggest factor in Russia’s early defeats was its profound misjudgment of its foe. No pushover, Russia’s opponent surprised the world with its determination and ability to resist Russian might, aided by timely support from European allies.
Although the parallels between the Russo-Japanese War and the current invasion of Ukraine are striking, there are also key differences, and fully appreciating these distinctions is necessary to avoid facile conclusions.
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Unagi
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Unagi »

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Brian
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Brian »

Image
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hepcat
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Re: Ukraine

Post by hepcat »

Laugh all you want…until you realize that’s a high tech Inspector Gadget balloon suit.
Covfefe!
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Unagi
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Unagi »

I'm guessing there is a whole world of "your general is so fat" jokes in Russia.

Your General is so fat his blood type is Solyanka.
Your General is so fat when he skips a meal my uncle's entire village eats for a week.
Your General is so fat when you ask him for orders he tells you '2 Large Beef Stroganoffs and 4 Blini'.
Your General is so fat his belt size is Trans-Siberian.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LordMortis »

hepcat wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:47 pm Laugh all you want…until you realize that’s a high tech Inspector Gadget balloon suit.
Or that he Baron Harkonnen?
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LawBeefaroni
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Meanwhile Russian oil revenues are higher than pre-war. They are renewing attacks on Kyiv. UA is still desperate for current generation AA/AT.

And Western leaders are trying to laugh it all off at the G7.


Repeated failures from leadership is a recurring theme these days.
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Re: Ukraine

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/. "She climbed backwards out her
\/ window into Outside Over There."
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Isgrimnur »

As the besuited leaders sat down for their first meeting of the three-day G7 summit in the sweltering Bavarian Alps, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson asked if their jackets should come off - or if they should even disrobe further.

"We all have to show that we're tougher than Putin," Johnson said, to laughter from some of his colleagues.
Boris is a conniving bastard hiding behind the masquerade of a fool.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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El Guapo
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Re: Ukraine

Post by El Guapo »

Russia also just defaulted on international debt for the first time in almost a century.
Black Lives Matter.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by malchior »

Russia attacked a shopping center with 1000 people inside.
A shopping center in Ukraine’s central Poltava region was hit by a Russian missile strike on Monday afternoon, the Ukrainian authorities said.

An estimated 1,000 people were inside the building, though the number of casualties is unknown.

“Unfortunately, there are victims,” Dmitry Lunin, the governor of the Poltava region, wrote on Telegram, confirming the attack. “More details later.”
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LawBeefaroni »

El Guapo wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:47 am Russia also just defaulted on international debt for the first time in almost a century.
Because with the shutdown of SWIFT they don't have a feasible way to pay. They have the cash/gold reserves but no way to get it to debt holders.

It doesn't matter anyway, since no one from the West can give them loans. It's a default with no penalties.
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Pyperkub
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Pyperkub »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:25 pm
El Guapo wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:47 am Russia also just defaulted on international debt for the first time in almost a century.
Because with the shutdown of SWIFT they don't have a feasible way to pay. They have the cash/gold reserves but no way to get it to debt holders.

It doesn't matter anyway, since no one from the West can give them loans. It's a default with no penalties.
Tho it could have a long tail...
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Max Peck »

It appears that Sweden, Finland and Turkey (who prefers to be called Türkiye) have reached an agreement and Turkey will support their NATO membership bid.

BREAKING: The leaders of Turkey, Sweden & Finland have just signed a memorandum for the two Nordic states to join NATO, removing a Turkish block to the accession process, a source said.
“It’s a three-way agreement on accession,” the source said. @jensstoltenberg to make statement
NEW: Finland’s president @niinisto
says the memorandum “confirms that Turkey will at Madrid Summit … support the invitation of Finland and Sweden to become members of NATO.”

Concrete steps to be agreed by allies over next 2 days but decision “imminent”
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Unagi
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Unagi »

Excellent news.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Isgrimnur »

One wonders what the "agreement" entails.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Unagi
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Unagi »

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:50 pm One wonders what the "agreement" entails.
Yeah, I almost qualified my statement, but then felt that it was still excellent news - even if I wasn't sure what was given there.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Chraolic »

I think we just pinkie-swore that we would totally look into the terrorism problem or something. It was never really about us anyway. Both Sweden and Finland has been close partners with NATO for decades and were about 99.99% compliant already. From what I gather it was probably more of an internal Turkish thing where Erdogan set up issues so he could point to international media and say "Look! I R important!".
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Max Peck »

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:50 pm One wonders what the "agreement" entails.
Here is the trilateral memorandum between 🇹🇷🇸🇪🇫🇮
h/t @Guldenay007
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Lagom Lite
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Re: Ukraine

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Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:50 pm One wonders what the "agreement" entails.
It's very simple. Sweden does nothing, but Turkey stops lying about how Sweden is a haven for terrorists. Meanwhile, Erdogan brags to his voters that he's done something significant.

Jokes aside, what's been discussed is Sweden should stop "supporting" YPG (Kurdish fighters in Syria opposing ISIS - whom the rest of the western world including USA is supporting anyway) and also stop "embargo" weapon exports to Turkey (Swedish embargo is part of the EU embargo, consisting of other NATO countries as well. Reason for embargo is Turkish actions in Syria).

It's all posturing. Probably Turkey has made some back-handed deal with you guys to import fighter jets or something.
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malchior
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Re: Ukraine

Post by malchior »

Whatever you think of the conflict, it seems clear that Russian elites needs to be severely punished. If it wasn't for the nukes regime change would be more than justified now.

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Re: Ukraine

Post by LawBeefaroni »

What do you mean by "elites?"

Putin needs to be punished as do a number of generals.

Sure a lot of the elite class supports Putin but how do you punish civilians for war crimes committed by troops in foreign countries, outside of sanctions?
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LawBeefaroni »

" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

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malchior
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Re: Ukraine

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:04 pm What do you mean by "elites?"

Putin needs to be punished as do a number of generals.

Sure a lot of the elite class supports Putin but how do you punish civilians for war crimes committed by troops in foreign countries, outside of sanctions?
Putin, military leaders, and civilian military leaders in the government are all fair game for war crimes in my book. As to his civilian supporters? Sanctions and travel restrictions should be maintained indefinitely even after the war ends. Send a message that running and supporting a mobster nation has severe consequences.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Max Peck »

Do the corrupt "elites" that siphoned off military assets and left the Russian fighting forces hollowed out get reduced sentences in recognition of their preemptive community service? :coffee:
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Re: Ukraine

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But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Lagom Lite »

Max Peck wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:03 am Do the corrupt "elites" that siphoned off military assets and left the Russian fighting forces hollowed out get reduced sentences in recognition of their preemptive community service? :coffee:
Heroes of the people, truly.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by xwraith »

I forgot to call it "a box of pure malevolent evil, a purveyor of
insidious insanity, an eldritch manifestation that would make Bill
Gates let out a low whistle of admiration," but it's all those, too.
-- David Gerard, Re: [Mediawiki-l] Wikitext grammar, 2010.08.06
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Re: Ukraine

Post by waitingtoconnect »

Journalists asking Biden how long people should pay more for petrol and asking why for the sake of that words to the effect of why Ukraine shouldn't be forced to surrender was pretty sickening.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by malchior »

Very discouraging. Something has gone wrong with a lot of folks moral compasses. Especially *waving hands* when you look at everything going on.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by gbasden »

The number of people who will full throatedly support capitalism and in the same breath complain about gas prices set by the market never ceases to amaze me. We are a very stupid country.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LordMortis »

gbasden wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:18 am The number of people who will full throatedly support capitalism and in the same breath complain about gas prices set by the market never ceases to amaze me. We are a very stupid country.
It's a confrontation I have with my father every time we see each other. Of course, he complains the problem is that Biden is somehow doing this, even after come to an agreement that energy companies are setting prices to return capital to their shareholders rather than investing it or lowering prices. We both concur on "I don't blame them" but I can't get him away from it somehow being the democrats fault. It's jaw dropping. Like trying to get Costello to see 7 x 13 is not 28, only Costello had method to his madness.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LawBeefaroni »

An estimated 42 M Americans are burning expensive gas this weekend for extended travel, not counting those flying. Ostensibly to celebrate historical fights for freedom. But they won't pay up to support an actual right for freedom happening right now.

If you drive 1,000 and get a mere 25 MPG and are paying $2 more per gallon, you're paying an extra $80. All extreme-end assumptions. $80 per 1,000 miles. While over 12,000,000 Ukrainians have been made refugees and tens of thousands more are likely dead.

Pure American weakness.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:45 amPure The usual American weakness selfishness.
I don't disagree - just focusing my ire on something more specific.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LawBeefaroni »

malchior wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:49 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:45 amPure The usual American weakness selfishness.
I don't disagree - just focusing my ire on something more specific.
But ..but we bought a shitton of Ukrainian flags from China!
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Daehawk »

--------------------------------------------
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Re: Ukraine

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Re: Ukraine

Post by Daehawk »

Some folk are just dull. Dull like a turnip.
--------------------------------------------
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malchior
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Re: Ukraine

Post by malchior »

Daehawk wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:14 pm Some folk are just dull. Dull like a turnip.
If there is one thing people would not call Chomsky - it'd be dull. Sometimes he just gets shit insanely wrong. The idea that the Russian position is being censored and they were provoked? It isn't supportable and I think he deep down knows it. I've read a lot of his work over the years and I believe there is a tell in this. When he knows what he is talking about he talks very deeply to specific things in the weeds and often pulls out root causes. When he doesn't? It looks like this.
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