The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

[Smoove_B]

Good luck Chicago:

Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s administration exempted more than 1,750 members of the Chicago Police Department from the city’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate and has not moved to terminate a single police officer for failing to comply with the order in the more than two months since the final deadline passed, officials told WTTW News.

That amounts to approximately 14% of the 12,537-member Chicago Police Department, double the number of exemptions granted to any other city department. By comparison, 6.9% of the 4,801-member Chicago Fire Department were granted exemptions from the vaccine mandate, according to a WTTW News analysis of data provided by the mayor’s office.

[malchior]

It almost like the politicians work for the police.

[LawBeefaroni]

CPD is short over 1,000 sworn officers. They cannot afford to terminate anyone for noncompliance with COVID vaccine reqs.

I mean ultimately it may make matters worse if they all get sick but firing 1,700 officers would be political suicide. They are already cancelling all days off.

This weekend in our district there was a fight with 75 participants and nowhere near enough cops to deal with it. Two cops got sent to the hospital. That was after a small Pride parade.

This weekend is the big Pride parade and it's going to be a disaster. Then there's July 4 to look forward to.

Against that kind of backdrop, removing 15% of a police force that is already hemorrhaging officers is pretty hard to see happening.

[Max Peck]

Vaccination mandates are falling to the wayside here in Canada as well. We're still going to be spending the summer with "Freedom Convoy" protests here in Ottawa, and the federal Conservative party seems to be on side with them. At first I was wondering what they were even protesting at this point, but then I remembered the whole white-nationalist bent of the organizers. The fact that the Conservatives seem to be courting them probably says a lot about where our federal politics are heading.

[Isgrimnur]

It almost like the politicians work for the police.

Well, when they have no legal requirements to actually protect you...

[Smoove_B]

Against that kind of backdrop, removing 15% of a police force that is already hemorrhaging officers is pretty hard to see happening.

This is why I'll never be put in an elected position. I'd fire them all and call in the national guard until we can hire officers that want to comply with rules and regulations regarding the workplace.

The idea that they know they won't be fired for disregarding policy is outrageous - especially if they all agree to defy the order. That cannot be tolerated.

[malchior]

It almost like the politicians work for the police.

Well, when they have no legal requirements to actually protect you...

And you can't sue them when they actually harm you...

The idea that they know they won't be fired for disregarding policy is outrageous - especially if they all agree to defy the order. That cannot be tolerated.

Especially since they are so well known to be tolerant of non-compliance with policy...

[Kurth]

Against that kind of backdrop, removing 15% of a police force that is already hemorrhaging officers is pretty hard to see happening.

This is why I'll never be put in an elected position. I'd fire them all and call in the national guard until we can hire officers that want to comply with rules and regulations regarding the workplace.

The idea that they know they won't be fired for disregarding policy is outrageous - especially if they all agree to defy the order. That cannot be tolerated.

Lanes. It’s a good thing we have lanes. And it’s an even better thing when we stay in them.

[Smoove_B]

I clearly said it's why I'll never be elected.

[Kurth]

I clearly said it's why I'll never be elected.

Self-awareness is also a positive!

[Smoove_B]

And not for anything, I think the last 2+ years have demonstrated there are no lanes anymore. Everyone is an expert on everything.

[Smoove_B]

Can't wait to see the usual suspects lose their minds over this

Out today: a new PSA from @SesameWorkshop and @AdCouncil targeted for parents weighing whether to vaccinate their children against covid.

“I had a lot of questions,” says Louie, who’s Elmo’s dad on Sesame Street. “I talked to our pediatrician so I could make the right choice.”

[Smoove_B]

For those following what's been going on with Dr. Fauci:

Anthony Fauci says that he's experienced a rebound in Covid symptoms after taking a course of Pfizer Inc.'s antiviral Paxlovid.

The NIAID director, speaking at #FPGlobalHealth, says he's currently on his second course of the treatment. He tested + then - and then + again

The first comment nailed it:

Spitballing here, but maybe vaccination and Paxlovid isn't enough to get ourselves out of this pandemic?

[stessier]

Didn't someone post an article about Paxlovid where that pattern (+ - +) was examined with its use and it was determined it wasn't a true rebound infection, but rather the body clearing out virus bits after Paxlovid use and that there wasn't viable replicating virus in the people tested? I swear I read that somewhere.

[Smoove_B]

There is some debate, yes. However the guidance I've seen indicates if you test positive, assume you're infectious and act accordingly. Not CDC guidance (because that would be crazy), but guidance from infectious disease professionals.

[Max Peck]

Didn't someone post an article about Paxlovid where that pattern (+ - +) was examined with its use and it was determined it wasn't a true rebound infection, but rather the body clearing out virus bits after Paxlovid use and that there wasn't viable replicating virus in the people tested? I swear I read that somewhere.

That does sound vaguely familiar, but most of the articles I've read recently seem to indicate that the rebound is due to insufficient drug exposure. Since rebound often includes a return of symptoms, it doesn't seem likely that the follow-on positive test results would be due to inactive viral fragments. People are actually sick again to some degree.

From Positive to Negative to Positive Again—The Mystery of Why COVID-19 Rebounds in Some Patients Who Take Paxlovid

About 12 hours after his symptoms arose, Ho swallowed his first dose of Pfizer’s antiviral nirmatrelvir/ritonavir, better known as Paxlovid. By day 4, his symptoms had resolved and he tested negative for COVID-19. After testing negative again on day 5, he ended his isolation from his family but continued to test daily.

After 6 consecutive negative rapid antigen tests, plus a negative PCR test, Ho awoke feeling under the weather. “I tested myself immediately, and I was completely surprised that I was positive again,” Ho recalled. “The initial shock was, ‘Wow, this is positive. I’ve never seen this.’”

A PCR test confirmed the positive rapid antigen test, and it was “back to jail” for Ho. “If you’re positive, you have to assume you’re infectious to others,” he explained.

Ho likely is one of very few people who’ve relapsed after taking nirmatrelvir/ritonavir and then sequenced their own virus both the first and second time around. (At least 1 other leading virologist, Peter Hotez, MD, PhD, of the Baylor College of Medicine, has revealed that he also experienced a post-Paxlovid relapse.)

Both of Ho’s sequences were identical, ruling out a couple of possible explanations for his relapse, he said. It couldn’t have been due to a stroke of bad luck—a second SARS-CoV-2 infection just as he was getting over his first one. And it couldn’t have resulted from the virus becoming resistant to nirmatrelvir. If either were the case, the virus pair wouldn’t have been identical.

COVID-19 Rebound after Taking Paxlovid Likely Due to Insufficient Drug Exposure

Paxlovid is the leading oral medication for preventing severe cases of COVID-19 in high-risk individuals. However, symptoms returned in some patients after treatment was completed, prompting the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to issue a health advisory on this so-called “COVID-19 rebound.”

In a study published June 20, 2022 in Clinical Infectious Diseases, researchers at University of California San Diego School of Medicine evaluated one such patient and found their symptom relapse was not caused by the development of resistance to the drug or impaired immunity against the virus. Rather, the COVID-19 rebound appears to have been the result of insufficient exposure to the drug.

The authors said the rebound of COVID-19 symptoms following the end of Paxlovid treatment is likely due to insufficient drug exposure: not enough of the drug was getting to infected cells to stop all viral replication. They suggested this may be due to the drug being metabolized more quickly in some individuals or that the drug needs to be delivered over a longer treatment duration.

In the future, Carlin said he hopes physicians will be able to test whether patients require a longer duration of Paxlovid treatment or if they might be best treated by a combination of drugs. In the meantime, Paxlovid users should be aware of the possibility of symptom rebound, and be prepared to wear masks and quarantine again if symptoms return.

Further research is necessary to measure how often rebound occurs, what patient populations are most susceptible and if returning symptoms can lead to more severe disease.

“The goal of Paxlovid is to prevent serious illness and death, and so far no one who has gotten sick again has needed to be hospitalized, so it's still doing its job,” said Smith. “We simply need to understand why the rebound happens in some patients and not others. More research is needed to help us adjust treatment plans as necessary.”

[Kraken]

Just took my first dose of Paxlovid. I am data!

[Max Peck]

Didn't someone post an article about Paxlovid where that pattern (+ - +) was examined with its use and it was determined it wasn't a true rebound infection, but rather the body clearing out virus bits after Paxlovid use and that there wasn't viable replicating virus in the people tested? I swear I read that somewhere.

I found this referenced in an article about Fauci's rebound.

COVID rebounds: Immune responses may be reignited by cleanup of viral scraps

Instead, a detailed look at their immune responses found that rebounds were associated with a surge in antibody and cellular immune responses specific against SARS-CoV-2. At the same time, rebounds were accompanied by downward trends in markers of innate (non-specific) immune responses, as well as levels of SARS-CoV-2 nucleocapsid bits in the blood.

Together, the findings suggest that the rebounds could be partly due to reignited immune response as the body works to clear cellular debris and viral scraps from a quickly smothered infection. Or, as the authors put it: "rebound symptoms may in fact be partially driven by the emerging immune response against residual viral antigens possibly shed from dying infected cells due to cytotoxicity and tissue repair throughout the respiratory tract."

Fauci reports COVID rebound, says his is “much worse” than initial illness

The country's top infectious disease expert, Anthony Fauci, has been struck by a phenomenon that appears to be becoming more common in the latest stage of the pandemic—rebounding bouts of COVID-19 after a course of the antiviral drug Paxlovid.

In an interview Tuesday at Foreign Policy's Global Health Forum, Fauci recounted the progression of his infection to his current rebound, which he said has been much worse than his first round with the disease. Fauci—the director of the National Institutes of Health's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) and chief medical advisor to the president—is 81 years old and has been fully vaccinated against COVID-19 and boosted twice.

He first tested positive on a rapid antigen test on June 15 and experienced "very minimal symptoms." But his symptoms worsened and he began a five-day course of Paxlovid. "And I felt really quite well," Fauci said, adding that he just had mild nasal congestion and fatigue. When he had finished the five-day course, he had reverted to negative on antigen tests for three consecutive days. But, "then on the fourth day—just to be absolutely certain—I tested myself again, and I reverted back to positive … and then over the next day or so I started to feel really poorly, much worse than in the first go-around."

Fauci subsequently went back on Paxlovid for another five-day course. "Right now, I'm on my fourth day of a five-day course of my second course of Paxlovid," he said Tuesday. "And, fortunately, I feel reasonably good, I mean, I'm not completely without symptoms, but I certainly don't feel acutely ill."

[stessier]

I read Ars, so that must have been it. I'm on vacation and only reading sporadically, so thanks for doing the dirty work and digging it up!

[Smoove_B]

This is the kind of stuff that actually wears away at my mental health. It's clear that people in key positions know what to do. But then they advise and endorse completely different policies for the masses. Its indefensible.

I am also aware that it would be a moral crime to transmit the coronavirus to Fauci. So when I got covid two weeks before our interview, I obsessively parsed the guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: As long as I waited 10 days after my first positive test, I could still meet Fauci in person, right? No, I was informed by Fauci, via a member of his communications team. I would need to test negative three days in a row and wear a mask, even outdoors.

[Max Peck]

It sounds to me like the symptoms and positive test results due to viral scraps are only part of the picture, since there also seem to be cases where there is live virus present during the rebound. The main take-aways for me are that rebounds only became an issue after Omnicron emerged and that so far there haven't been any cases where the rebound was severe enough to require hospitalization. For the time being, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of being contagious during a rebound although it seems it could be less likely than during the initial infection.

[LawBeefaroni]

Zelenko dead (cancer).

Vladimir "Zev" Zelenko (1973 – June 30, 2022) was an American family physician and author known for promoting a three-drug combination of hydroxychloroquine, zinc sulfate, and azithromycin as part of an experimental outpatient treatment for COVID-19 that he called the Zelenko Protocol. He also promoted unfounded medical advice, conspiracy theories, and misinformation about COVID-19 vaccination.

[Smoove_B]

NBC News confirms: Dr. Lisa Gwynn, a pediatrician with the University of Miami Health System, has been removed from a state-appointed board for publicly criticizing Florida's decision to delay access to the COVID vaccine for children under 5.

[Unagi]

She’s part of the lucky vanguard that will actually make the news.

[Smoove_B]

In case you're wondering how it's going with the vaccination effort:

Adults snapped up COVID-19 shots in the first wave of vaccinations in early 2021, coveting them so much that Florida police caught two women who dressed as grandmothers to hop the line.

The federal push to vaccinate children has been a much tougher slog, with parental anecdotes and federal data showing interest drops off below age 12 even, as President Biden cheers the recent authorization of shots for 18 million kids aged 6 months to 4 years.

...

Over three-quarters of U.S. adults are fully vaccinated.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported that as of June 28, nearly 60% of the 25.3 million U.S. residents aged 12 to 17 were fully vaccinated. By contrast, less than 30% of the 28.7 million U.S. residents ages 5 to 11 were fully vaccinated.

It is a vast gulf in percentages, even though the 5-11 group is slightly larger and started getting shots five months later than the 12-17 group.

...

“The numbers are not good. Only 30% of parents are vaccinating their 5- to 11-year-olds and that number is down to only 11% in many southern states,” said Peter Hotez, an infectious diseases expert at the Baylor College of Medicine. “Likely the percentage of those younger than 5 years old will be even lower, in which case we’re looking at single digits numbers for the South.”

The slippage in younger groups underscores the challenge the White House faces in getting widespread vaccine coverage — a marquee initiative for Mr. Biden, who is trying to reduce severe outcomes as the country attempts to live with the virus.

In my red corner of NJ, only ~63% of adults have 2+ shots and only 35% have received the booster. I get that people are done with the virus, but it's not done with us. This Fall and Winter have the real potential to be another nightmare. Anticipate disruptions.

Also:

More than half of Canada's AstraZeneca vaccine doses expired, will be thrown out

Human beings are the goddamn worst!

[Zaxxon]

[Max Peck]

More than half of Canada's AstraZeneca vaccine doses expired, will be thrown out

Human beings are the goddamn worst!

My understanding is that the feds tried to donate the undistributed AZ doses to other countries before they expired, but there were no takers.

[LordMortis]

They forgot to put an envelop with my summer taxes, so I had to go to to City Hall to pay them. Though "strongly recommended" and even provided, I was the only person wearing a mask worker or citizen. The greeter/guard guy that was at the desk to make masks available wasn't wearing a mask.

[Kraken]

They forgot to put an envelop with my summer taxes, so I had to go to to City Hall to pay them. Though "strongly recommended" and even provided, I was the only person wearing a mask worker or citizen. The greeter/guard guy that was at the desk to make masks available wasn't wearing a mask.

Or you could've, y'know, used your own envelope. Like I had to do with my trash bill last week. Fortunately Town Hall has a tax collector drop box so I didn't have to invest in a stamp.

[Unagi]

They forgot to put an envelop with my summer taxes, so I had to go to to City Hall to pay them. Though "strongly recommended" and even provided, I was the only person wearing a mask worker or citizen. The greeter/guard guy that was at the desk to make masks available wasn't wearing a mask.

Or you could've, y'know, used your own envelope. Like I had to do with my trash bill last week. Fortunately Town Hall has a tax collector drop box so I didn't have to invest in a stamp.

I would be too paranoid to do that.

[LordMortis]

They forgot to put an envelop with my summer taxes, so I had to go to to City Hall to pay them. Though "strongly recommended" and even provided, I was the only person wearing a mask worker or citizen. The greeter/guard guy that was at the desk to make masks available wasn't wearing a mask.

Or you could've, y'know, used your own envelope. Like I had to do with my trash bill last week. Fortunately Town Hall has a tax collector drop box so I didn't have to invest in a stamp.

They did not include an address, only instruction to use the enclosed envelop. So then I have to worry about the 1% or less chance that even if I have the right address, I didn't follow instructions and the effort to research the right address is too much less effort than just going to city hall. That and I save a stamp.

City hall also has a drop box but you are supposed to use "the enclosed envelop" for that as well and again, the difference between using the drop box and going to City Hall is the difference between walking inside and talking to someone behind a plate of sneeze guard glass.

I'm just taken aback every time I'm forced in to another new post stay home situation where masking is posted as something serious and then there is zero compliance. Both the tax notice and City Hall state masking in strongly recommended, but if not for any of their staff, then for whom? Cause it sure wasn't the visiting patron citizens (Who seemed mostly there to drop off absentee voting forms)

[Smoove_B]

Seat belts are *strongly recommended*
Helmets on bicycles and motorcycles are *strongly recommended*
Not smoking indoors is *strongly recommended*
Putting your garbage in the proper container is *strongly recommended*
Washing your hands after using the bathroom and preparing food for a customer is *strongly recommended*

People don't want to be told what to do and yet also can't be trusted to do the right thing.

[LawBeefaroni]

Seat belts are *strongly recommended*
Helmets on bicycles and motorcycles are *strongly recommended*
Not smoking indoors is *strongly recommended*
Putting your garbage in the proper container is *strongly recommended*
Washing your hands after using the bathroom and preparing food for a customer is *strongly recommended*

People don't want to be told what to do and yet also can't be trusted to do the right thing.

A lot of those are enforced by law and carry civil penalties. In some states/cities.

[Smoove_B]

A lot of those are enforced by law and carry civil penalties. In some states/cities.

For now.

When people can understand (and accept) that at a basic level, wearing a seat belt or handwashing before food handling is in the same vein as wearing a mask, maybe we'll be ok. Until then? We're spiraling.

I still cannot understand why hospital systems and/or national hospital, nurse,doctor, etc... organizations aren't speaking out against a lack of masking in communities nationwide. I would think at this point some of those folks are...tired. Maybe I'm missing something, but why aren't they pushing back? Why aren't they leaning on state and local leaders to enact public indoor masking?

[Kraken]

Today I joined the 95% and shopped for groceries without wearing a mask, for the first time in at least a year. It felt...wrong. But if I have natural immunity for the next six weeks or so, I'm going to enjoy it.

[Smoove_B]

At the risk of being a buzzkill (why stop now?), you don't know if you actually have immunity unless you had a blood titer for antibodies. While it's likely you have some immunity, the actual level is an unknown.

I know you're going to be surprised, but I'm going to recommend you still wear a mask - and not just for your own benefit.

[Kraken]

I'd have been disappointed if you hadn't.

[Kraken]

At the risk of being a buzzkill (why stop now?), you don't know if you actually have immunity unless you had a blood titer for antibodies. While it's likely you have some immunity, the actual level is an unknown.

I know you're going to be surprised, but I'm going to recommend you still wear a mask - and not just for your own benefit.

To elaborate: Wife summed it up when she said she feels like we've been running from a mean dog for 2.5 years and it finally caught us. Now that we've been mauled and the dog has wandered off, maybe we can stop running for awhile. Yes, I know we could be reinfected and can spread virus but we're about as immune as we're ever going to be right now and the virus is never going away.

We're taking a mini-vacation in mid August about six weeks from now. After that, we'll consider our get-out-of-jail-free card expired and go back to routine masking, assuming the pandemic is still perking along more or less as it is now.

[msteelers]

My wife and I did the same thing after we first got sick. We stopped wearing masks and felt like we could have a mini-break.

It was/is so hard to flip that switch back on once you’ve turned it off.

Even now, after getting Covid a second time, I struggle. I know I should wear a mask, but I seemingly “forget” more often than not. My wife was the last one wearing a mask at her work. She no longer wears the mask.

[Smoove_B]

Shared without comment:

TL;DR
The amount of virus we receive can determine the severity of disease. This “infectious dose” is affected by how much virus is in the particles we inhale as well as how long we inhale them. Its impact is modified by our pre-existing immunity. Physical distance between us and the infectious source reduces the risk of us getting a dose. Masks also reduce the size of and even prevent us from getting a dose altogether. Cleaning or refreshing the air we breathe also reduces the infectious dose. We can exert some control over our risk of infection.

If you want to avoid getting sick from respiratory viruses -it’s up to you. The help from professional expert bodies is largely gone now.

So you can:

Wear a good mask well – reduce the particles you inhale. Masks matter.
Don’t spend long inside crowded stuffy spaces – limited time = limited dose
Advocate for cleaner air. The purity of our air is as important to our health as the cleanliness of our food and water