You mean like the way they are currently prospering under a Democratic system?
Damn, I need to get me some of that, because being a working schmuck under a Democratic system sure as hell aint being prosperous for me!!
Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus
You mean like the way they are currently prospering under a Democratic system?
My point would be, the Dem's got their president, their house and their senate and they still managed to fuck the outcome. I'd say by this point it would be hopeless to try the same thing over and over again. It obviously doesn't work. I'm not calling for violence. I'm calling to try something *anything* else. Maybe the R's wrecked the system to the point to where only tyranny is going to work for now. It sure seems like it.Alefroth wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:40 pmThe point is, you can affect the outcome without resorting to tyranny.
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
It's pointless to explain to you why the Dems don't actually have the Senate.Drazzil wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:33 pm My point would be, the Dem's got their president, their house and their senate and they still managed to fuck the outcome. I'd say by this point it would be hopeless to try the same thing over and over again. It obviously doesn't work. I'm not calling for violence. I'm calling to try something *anything* else. Maybe the R's wrecked the system to the point to where only tyranny is going to work for now. It sure seems like it.
Ya know every time you hang that "voted for tyranny" coat on me, while saying very little to address my very real issues... I find that coat fits a little better. Oh don't worry. I'm STILL in a safe state. You won't have to worry about my hampering you beautiful narrow minded scolds as you finger wag away at the people you ignored for ages telling them to GOTV and organize for the "blue no matter who" geriocrats. The same people who can't be arsed to even make it easier for the sharecroppers to vote or have their votes count or protect our most basic rights as you madly try to stem the tide of extremism that threatens to blow down our door. Go ahead, scold away, but I think you'll find there's no stuffing the shit back in the goose.Holman wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:16 pmIt's pointless to explain to you why the Dems don't actually have the Senate.Drazzil wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:33 pm My point would be, the Dem's got their president, their house and their senate and they still managed to fuck the outcome. I'd say by this point it would be hopeless to try the same thing over and over again. It obviously doesn't work. I'm not calling for violence. I'm calling to try something *anything* else. Maybe the R's wrecked the system to the point to where only tyranny is going to work for now. It sure seems like it.
As for the system, you voted for tyranny once already. Please abstain from doing so again.
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
If Biden had threatened those two traitors with prosecution for everything they did criminally our country might not be in this situation. God forbid biden rustle the silverware and decorum aboard the titanic as it goes down.YellowKing wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:37 pm They did not get their Senate. Manchin and Sinema made damn sure of that.
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
I don't even think comparing the two eras is even all that useful. Our society looks absolutely nothing like it did then. People today are under different pressures and are living through different hardships. What the point of this sort of analysis? Is it useful that we could say, "Don't get upset about your struggles, at least you have indoor plumbing, electricity, and aren't working in a barrel shop? Aren't you glad you aren't being forced to work the fields? Forget that you live in a time where hope for a future at all is dying."Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:45 pmIt's not worse, but it's got worse potential than any except, possibly, the days leading up to the Civil War.RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:52 pm What we are going through now is not worse than any of those things.
This is what people don't get. The risk we face. We can argue about whether it was worse than some past time. It doesn't matter much since we face a slew of significant crises right now and the risks are being actualized.The disaster here isn't anger or a lack of humanity, it's a calculated plan to remove the ability to redress those things. And once those mechanisms are removed (and we're standing now on the knife's edge of that removal), it isn't just a matter of changing peoples' minds any more. Look at protests in China to see just how effective changing minds is once the safeties on the government is removed.
It’s important to do so because it highlights the hypocrisy in your posts yelling at everyone else when they don’t follow your suggestions. You are literally part of the reason we are where we are. You’re so certain you’re right all the time, but facts prove that to be a false sense of security on your part.
Everyone is part of the reason we are where we are. You keeo throwing the fact that I voted for Trump the first time in a safe state in my face, as an excuse to ignore and downplay everything I say. I don't mean to yell or be shrill. If I come across that way I'm sorry. I'm trying to make sense of all of this and I don't see us (any of us) getting out of this without doing some pretty antiestablishment things. The longer we wait the worse we're gonna have to be.hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:43 amIt’s important to do so because it highlights the hypocrisy in your posts yelling at everyone else when they don’t follow your suggestions. You are literally part of the reason we are where we are. You’re so certain you’re right all the time, but facts prove that to be a false sense of security on your part.
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
Not as much as all that, I'll admit.Zarathud wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:41 am Creating conditions where Trump or another authoritarian can be hailed as a liberator? Stop pouring gasoline on the house, and stop hoping for someone to light a match.
Don’t say everyone is responsible. I didn’t cause Trump. Voted against him, and left the Republican Party over 20 years ago in opposition to these conservative extremists. I’ve warned against them since the Clinton years.
I remember in college when my wife spent several weekends a month doing clinic defenses, putting her body on the line to stop anti-abortion forces. She’s been a civilian volunteer with victim support and CAPS. Hell, she’s even calling herself a Republican to be a poll judge and protect local elections.
We’ve been active in our local wards for over 10 years. We’ve contributed to my wife’s classmates who were running for office as Democrats in Indiana. Once they even had a chance.
What the fuck have you done, Drazzil?
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
Good point. It's probably why they staged it.LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 7:20 pm It's probably selling well in Saudi Arabia though. MBS fist bumped a guy who's president of a burgeoning fascist theocracy.
Before President Joe Biden left for the Middle East this week, he and his team spent weeks trying to publicly and privately defend the most controversial part of his trip: his visit to Saudi Arabia. With the Saudi stopover imminent ― Biden arrives in the kingdom on Friday ― that effort looks like a clear failure.
Within the administration, skeptical national security staffers see the Saudi stint as hypocritical and unlikely to boost American interests ― with some calling it a “Summit for Autocracy” in a pointed reference to Biden’s “Summit for Democracy” last December, according to one U.S. official. White House outreach to human rights groups and progressive activists left multiple recipients doubtful that Biden would do anything to rein in alarming Saudi repression. And on Capitol Hill, many of Biden’s fellow Democrats believe he is set to be played by the kingdom and its de facto ruler, Crown Prince Muhammed bin Salman.
Key lawmakers working on global affairs are concerned about “how little the administration is getting in return for an open-armed, public embrace of MBS,” said a senior congressional aide, using a common nickname for the prince. Most experts agree the visit will be far more beneficial for the Saudis than the United States; Riyadh is unlikely to offer Biden meaningful help on his priorities, like lowering global oil prices and limiting the Middle East influence of China and Russia, they say.
Sure - sometimes you have to weigh risk with potential reward. And to be fair Trump is the reason Biden is left with what's appears to be considerably less soft power in the region. The Saudis no longer have a transactional President with a corrupt family that they can cut dirty deals with.They’re dealing with Iran’s nuclear capability and Israel saying they might go beyond sabotage if necessary. Before the trip they’re blaming Biden for not getting anything. We’ll, he’s not getting anything until he speaks to Saudi leaders. They’re not good people, but they’re what we’ve got to limit Iran and get onboard if Israel acts more overtly.
This gets to the reward side. Was taking the risk covered by a reward big enough to take it? That's hard to say. One thing I'd consider though is that he put himself in this tricky spot to succeed from the jump. He took a hard position on MBS when he ran. His team spent considerable time debating this with stakeholders. He knew this risk in particular was acute. I would have figured he would not make the trip unless he had something tangible lined up. That appears to not be the case.And Biden has to show he’s doing something about gas prices. Instead it’s drowned out by this backbiting. WTF.
I get that but no one cares if he tried. They care if actual prices fall. There was little chance it would work. The bigger problem here is that Biden just signaled weakness to our adversaries for a useless high risk domestic political stunt that everyone knows wouldn't work.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:42 am I'll echo Zarathud's comment this trip and gas prices and add that the Biden team probably saw most of the potential pitfalls of doing this, but they know they are getting absolutely hammered on the domestic front wrt gas prices (whether his fault or not) and they thought he had to do "something" visible. This was that something. They know or think that voters care more about what they pay at the pump than they do about a hazy memory of a journalist ("was he even American?") killed somewhere allegedly by this Saudi government for some reason...
You seem to be thinking from a "real outcomes" perspective.malchior wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:50 amI get that but no one cares if he tried. They care if actual prices fall. There was little chance it would work. The bigger problem here is that Biden just signaled weakness to our adversaries for a useless high risk domestic political stunt that everyone knows wouldn't work.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:42 am I'll echo Zarathud's comment this trip and gas prices and add that the Biden team probably saw most of the potential pitfalls of doing this, but they know they are getting absolutely hammered on the domestic front wrt gas prices (whether his fault or not) and they thought he had to do "something" visible. This was that something. They know or think that voters care more about what they pay at the pump than they do about a hazy memory of a journalist ("was he even American?") killed somewhere allegedly by this Saudi government for some reason...
Further it illustrates fundamental problems. Our power is diminished and Biden has terrible judgement. We will continue to see adversary nations challenge him because they have increased confidence they'll be able to best him individually and a divided US.
It is indeed stupid. Yet he seems to take the stupid option 2 times out of 3. That is why I think he has terrible judgement.
The American people have the attention span of gnats. Even if you could break through that they don't trust any source of information that doesn't align with their beliefs anymore. So I get why Biden is willing to throw spaghetti at the wall. He needs to get results.Where is that video stessier shared about the truth behind gas prices. That is what should be told to America , full presentation with graphics, etc. I see no real concentrated efforts to educate people about the reality of it all.
I edited and agree he was there for substantive issues. Still I honestly think you're missing or maybe more accurately underestimating the problem the press is highlighting which is that foreign diplomacy is full of all these gotcha moments. He has made several errors both in the moment and strategically that reflect poorly on his judgement and ability to project strength. Sure the press is looking for clicks but he doesn't have to deliver them on a platter. He projects weakness when he falls for these tricks.Zarathud wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:33 am Biden has to keep Saudi in the fold against Iran and Russia. Avoiding a split if Israel acts or Russia seeks to break sanctions with Saudi help is important enough to act.
It’s cynical to think Biden is just in it for the photo op rather than working on substantive problems. Apparently from NPR interviews that Kashogi showed up unexpectedly and the fist bump was cursory, not friendly. But it’s easy fodder for a news cycle selling controversy over substance.
Running__ | __2014: 1300.55 miles__ | __2015: 2036.13 miles__ | __2016: 1012.75 miles__ | __2017: 1105.82 miles__ | __2018: 1318.91 miles | __2019: 2000.00 miles |
Yeah, I doubt any station in Illinois is below $4 and our average is $4.97. That map is not accurate.
The key word is one or more. There are probably discounts, promos, etc. out there that make this barely factual. But it doesn't make it any less propaganda-ish.LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:45 amYeah, I doubt any station in Illinois is below $4 and our average is $4.97. That map is not accurate.
https://gasprices.aaa.com/?state=IL
Well then surely all 50 states have at least one station offering free gas. Why sell the administration short?malchior wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:55 amThe key word is one or more. There are probably discounts, promos, etc. out there that make this barely factual. But it doesn't make it any less propaganda-ish.LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:45 amYeah, I doubt any station in Illinois is below $4 and our average is $4.97. That map is not accurate.
https://gasprices.aaa.com/?state=IL
I’d like to see the difference mimed out for clarity. Thanks!