Ukraine

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El Guapo
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Re: Ukraine

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:21 pm
Daehawk wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:14 pm Some folk are just dull. Dull like a turnip.
If there is one thing people would not call Chomsky - it'd be dull. Sometimes he just gets shit insanely wrong. The idea that the Russian position is being censored and they were provoked? It isn't supportable and I think he deep down knows it. I've read a lot of his work over the years and I believe there is a tell in this. When he knows what he is talking about he talks very deeply to specific things in the weeds and often pulls out root causes. When he doesn't? It looks like this.
For people who are primarily focused on the evils of the U.S. government and intelligence agencies (of which there are many) there is a tendency to assume that the U.S. is in the wrong in any confrontation with foreign enemies. I think this is driving this stuff from Chomsky.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by raydude »

On the war front,

US Supplied HIMARS - High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems - with the ability to hit targets up to 40 miles away, have been hitting Russian ammo depots pretty hard the past week. Already some of the results are being felt:


Here is an overall picture of fires along the front using NASA firms data.
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Re: Ukraine

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Ukraine war: Deal signed to allow grain exports to resume by sea
Ukraine and Russia have signed "mirror" deals which will allow Kyiv to resume exports of grain through the Black Sea.

The agreement will allow millions of tonnes of grain, currently trapped in Ukraine by the war, to be exported.

The world shortage of Ukrainian grain since Russia's 24 February invasion has left millions at risk of hunger.

However, Kyiv refused to sign a direct deal with Moscow, and warned "provocations" would be met with "an immediate military response".

Both sides attended the signing ceremony in Istanbul but did not sit at the same table. Russia's Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu signed Moscow's deal first, followed by Ukrainian Infrastructure Minister Oleksandr Kubrakov signing Kyiv's identical agreement.

The deal - which took two months to reach - is set to last for 120 days, with a co-ordination and monitoring centre to be established in Istanbul, staffed by UN, Turkish, Russian and Ukrainian officials. It can be renewed if both parties agree.
According to diplomats, under the terms of the deal:
  • Russia will not target ports while shipments are in transit
  • Ukrainian vessels will guide cargo ships through waters that have been mined
  • Turkey - supported by the United Nations - will inspect ships, to allay Russian fears of weapons smuggling
  • Russian exports of grain and fertiliser via the Black Sea will be facilitated.
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Re: Ukraine

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We'll see but I don't trust Russia.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by malchior »

dbt1949 wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:15 pm We'll see but I don't trust Russia.
Neither did I but still I didn't think they'd break the deal in less than a day.



They conducted a cruise missile attack on infrastructure in the port of Odesa.
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Re: Ukraine

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I just read that before coming here this morning. I am speechless.
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Re: Ukraine

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From our analysis, it becomes clear: business retreats and sanctions are catastrophically crippling the Russian economy. We tackle a wide range of common misperceptions – and shed light on what is actually going on inside Russia...
Have yet to read the paper but putting here for the group. And so I can find it later.


118 Pages
Posted: 20 Jul 2022
Last revised: 24 Jul 2022
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Re: Ukraine

Post by malchior »

By the by this is potentially a very big deal. Ammonia is THE key input for fertilizer and the chemical manufacturing sector. This will have cascading effects on prices.

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Re: Ukraine

Post by Victoria Raverna »

I thought ammonia is an abundant resource since almost all living things on earth directly or indirectly produce ammonia.
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Unagi
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Unagi »

Well.
You are kinda blowing off the idea of collecting all that naturally produced ammonia. No?

My understanding is that ammonia does not last long in the environment, it does not bioaccumulate. So, ya gotta make it (mostly from slurry and manure)
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Little Raven »

Unagi wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:54 amSo, ya gotta make it (mostly from slurry and manure)
And making it is a very energy intensive affair.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by malchior »

Unagi wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:54 amMy understanding is that ammonia does not last long in the environment, it does not bioaccumulate. So, ya gotta make it (mostly from slurry and manure)
Ammonia is very reactive. Which is why it is useful for manufacturing but also why making it and keeping it stable are challenging.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LawBeefaroni »

6/13/2022:
LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 4:55 pm


And it's not just grain. Natural gas is a critical component in the manufacture of nitrogen fertilizer. Without fertilizer, crop yields can't feed enough people.

Unagi wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:54 am My understanding is that ammonia does not last long in the environment, it does not bioaccumulate. So, ya gotta make it (mostly from slurry and manure)
Ammonia for fertilizer is synthesized from nat gas. Sustainable methods like manure account for a tiny fraction of production. Coal is used more than sustainable methods.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Isgrimnur »

Bring back the Guano Islands Act!
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Grifman »

Russia is increasingly relying upon mercenaries to fight the war:
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Grifman »

Russia is increasingly relying upon mercenaries to fight the war:
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: Ukraine

Post by El Guapo »

Stupid question but.....can't we just outbid Russia for the services of the Wagner Group? Wouldn't that essentially shut down their military operations?
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Max Peck »

That depends on whether Wagner Group is actually an independent contractor or Putin's private militia.
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Re: Ukraine

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El Guapo wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:21 pm Stupid question but.....can't we just outbid Russia for the services of the Wagner Group? Wouldn't that essentially shut down their military operations?

On the one hand:
The pay of Wagner private military contractors (PMCs), who are usually retired regular Russian servicemen aged between 35 and 55,[73] is estimated to be between 80,000 and 250,000 Russian rubles a month (667–2,083 USD).[116] One source stated the pay was as high as 300,000 (2,500 USD).
They're cheap. And we could put them to work teaching in Florida.


On the other:
In late 2019, a so-called Wagner code of honor was revealed that lists ten commandments for Wagner's PMCs to follow. These include, among others, to protect the interests of Russia always and everywhere, to value the honor of a Russian soldier, to fight not for money, but from the principle of winning always and everywhere.[
They may be a better fit in the GOP.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by El Guapo »

Ah, I had been thinking of them as an international mercenary group, when it sounds like they're more of a paramilitary organization.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Daehawk »

Ukraine has been taking back land that was occupied. Good on them.

This video visits a Russian supermarket and compares prices now to last year. It is more expensive though not as much as Id hoped. Plus it seems well stocked.

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Re: Ukraine

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It's probably more expensive here than there.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Unagi »

How much faith would anyone put in a video coming out of Russia?
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Re: Ukraine

Post by paulbaxter »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:54 pm
From our analysis, it becomes clear: business retreats and sanctions are catastrophically crippling the Russian economy. We tackle a wide range of common misperceptions – and shed light on what is actually going on inside Russia...
Have yet to read the paper but putting here for the group. And so I can find it later.


118 Pages
Posted: 20 Jul 2022
Last revised: 24 Jul 2022
Thanks for posting that. Just read it. Pretty thorough analysis of what should be totally expected, but obscured by Russian policies and propaganda. I'm sure domestically that Russian states owned media simultaneously minimizes and denies the obvious economic problems and also places the blame for everything squarely on other countries. The sad truth learned from the 20th century, though, is that a nation committed to total war can keep it going for quite a long time, so long as they are able to keep the military machine going. Who knows how long that will be in this case, but it's still heartening to see so many countries taking part in the economic blockade.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Pyperkub »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
El Guapo wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:21 pm Stupid question but.....can't we just outbid Russia for the services of the Wagner Group? Wouldn't that essentially shut down their military operations?

On the one hand:
The pay of Wagner private military contractors (PMCs), who are usually retired regular Russian servicemen aged between 35 and 55,[73] is estimated to be between 80,000 and 250,000 Russian rubles a month (667–2,083 USD).[116] One source stated the pay was as high as 300,000 (2,500 USD).
They're cheap. And we could put them to work teaching in Florida.


On the other:
In late 2019, a so-called Wagner code of honor was revealed that lists ten commandments for Wagner's PMCs to follow. These include, among others, to protect the interests of Russia always and everywhere, to value the honor of a Russian soldier, to fight not for money, but from the principle of winning always and everywhere.[
They may be a better fit in the GOP.
They are also the worst of the worst.

https://kyivindependent.com/national/do ... -captivity

Just a bit of the Russian War Crimes going on.
More than 50 Ukrainian prisoners of war have reportedly been killed in what is believed to be a Russian attack on a prisoner camp in Russian-occupied Donbas on July 28. This is possibly the worst crime against captive combatants since Russia launched its full-scale war...

... When the defenders of Azovstal left the plant, the United Nations and the International Committee of the Red Cross acted as guarantors of the life and health of our soldiers," Zelensky said. The president called on the UN and the International Committee of the Red Cross to visit the site and investigate the matter.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Pyperkub »

There have also been these disgusting videos of more alleged War Crimes:

https://news.yahoo.com/horrifying-foota ... 14554.html
A horrific video posted online on Thursday appears to show a Ukrainian prisoner of war being castrated by his Russian captors.

While Yahoo News cannot independently verify the authenticity of the video, the footage, which was initially posted on a pro-Russian Telegram page before spreading rapidly on social media, showed what appears to be a Russian soldier or mercenary wearing a distinctive black fringed hat, mutilating a man who appears to be a captured Ukrainian soldier.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Unagi »

I have zero interest in watching that video.
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Re: Ukraine

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ditto
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Kraken »

Yup, that's a no-click-um.
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Re: Ukraine

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If I didn't have family members nearby, I'd likely click it. I make it a point to not shy away from truths like that - it helps me keep things in perspective in regards to the news, reminds me of the real human cost when the headlines are usually just numbers and abstract references to 'suffering.' I find it too easy to fall into those abstractions and forget the real suffering behind the summaries.
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Re: Ukraine

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I didn't watch either, just read the article.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Blackhawk wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:13 am If I didn't have family members nearby, I'd likely click it. I make it a point to not shy away from truths like that - it helps me keep things in perspective in regards to the news, reminds me of the real human cost when the headlines are usually just numbers and abstract references to 'suffering.' I find it too easy to fall into those abstractions and forget the real suffering behind the summaries.
Same but I'm also waiting for verification. It's likely true but there is so much misinformation out there.
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Re: Ukraine

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Blackhawk wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:13 am If I didn't have family members nearby, I'd likely click it. I make it a point to not shy away from truths like that - it helps me keep things in perspective in regards to the news, reminds me of the real human cost when the headlines are usually just numbers and abstract references to 'suffering.' I find it too easy to fall into those abstractions and forget the real suffering behind the summaries.
The description is enough to tell me of the real human cost. I don't need to view a second by second video of a person's suffering to understand how horrific things are.
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Re: Ukraine

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Re: Ukraine

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Re: Ukraine

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Re: Ukraine

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Re: Ukraine

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malchior
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Re: Ukraine

Post by malchior »

There was a surprising development yesterday. An airbase in Crimea deep behind the front lines was attacked by an unknown weapon. It is well outside HIMARS range. Some are speculating we are now sending them the ATACMS which has the range needed and is GPS guided. In his nightly address Zelensky said the war wouldn't end until they had Crimea back in their hands.

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Re: Ukraine

Post by Unagi »

Why wouldn’t this just be presumed to be two simultaneous secondary explosions resulting from the original strike.
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