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The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

For discussion of religion and politics

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LawBeefaroni
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Yeah, your mask protects others. It offers some protection from others but less than if they're properly masked instead.

It stops some incoming but more outgoing.


So ironically, the immunocompromised person on the train wearing a mask is limiting your risk more than their own.

Of course if they're the only one masked, they have slightly better protection you do from a third person.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:45 pm Not even sure what those are called, but I assume they are some better version of what was available when the pandemic first broke out (which I guess was N95 and the ugly duck billed ones)
I'd have to see it, but there are a few different style masks. I'm currently using (and have settled on) a KF94 that I add an optional clip to around the back of my head that tightens it down to my face (effectively making it more like an N95). I like the style and it seems to fit my face best. but in terms of comfort the 3M Aura and Gerson n95 masks (that is a duckbill) are also insanely comfortable.

And yes, to get back to the person on the train, we've effectively said one-way masking is the best we're ever going to get - which puts people that need protection the most at increased risk because short of a SCBA, there are even limits to the n95 in an environment that is potentially overloaded with the virus (like a train or a bus).

Again, we need to move away from binary - everyone in n95 vs no one wearing a mask. It would be significantly better if everyone would wear *any* type of face covering. But instead there's outright refusal to do anything to help.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

And amazingly, sometimes the algorithm gets it right


So, we know covid is bad for us.

We know how to control it…

We know not controlling it will hit the most vulnerable people the hardest…

So the world doesn’t need a doctor at this point… it needs ethical/spiritual guidance.
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Victoria Raverna
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Victoria Raverna »

stessier wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:35 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:29 pm Educate me about current thoughts on mask effectiveness. In that last example, is the effectively masked cancer patient not protected on a train of unmasked (bandits)?
Enlarge Image
Looking at that, I think it is stupid for selfish people who don't want to wear masks to encourage other to not wearing masks. If I don't like to wear masks, I'll encourage people to wear it so I'll be safer.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Unagi »

Victoria Raverna wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:22 am If I don't like to wear masks, I'll encourage people to wear it so I'll be safer.
Ahh, the ol' "I don't want to wear masks, but you should" angle.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by stessier »

Victoria Raverna wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:22 am
stessier wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:35 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:29 pm Educate me about current thoughts on mask effectiveness. In that last example, is the effectively masked cancer patient not protected on a train of unmasked (bandits)?
Enlarge Image
Looking at that, I think it is stupid for selfish people who don't want to wear masks to encourage other to not wearing masks. If I don't like to wear masks, I'll encourage people to wear it so I'll be safer.
Except if you (the non-masker) is the one who is sick, everyone else is kinda screwed.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Defiant »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:29 pm Educate me about current thoughts on mask effectiveness. In that last example, is the effectively masked cancer patient not protected on a train of unmasked (bandits)?
No mask is going to be 100% effective - there's always going to be some risk when there's exposure to covid. The most effective mask would be the n95s (provided that they are: genuine n95s not counterfeits, they are the proper size/fit for your face, they are worn properly, and they haven't been used to the point where it's fit/seal or electrostatic charge is compromised).

Here are some studies:
A study from Tokyo tested how well different types of masks protected the wearer from actual coronavirus particles. The study showed that even a simple cotton mask offered some protection (17 percent to 27 percent) to the wearer. Medical masks performed better, including a surgical mask (47 percent to 50 percent protection), a loosefitting N95 (57 percent to 86 percent protection) and a tightly sealed N95 (79 percent to 90 percent protection).

While many lab studies test masks using mannequin heads, a 2008 study used real people to measure how well masks could protect the wearer against a respiratory virus. The study subjects wore different kinds of masks fitted with special receptors that could measure particle concentration on both sides of the masks. In this study, cloth masks reduced exposure by 60 percent, surgical masks by 76 percent and N95 masks by 99 percent.
https://www.nytimes.com/article/covid-m ... stats.html
In fact, N95 and KN95 masks were found to be 48% more effective than surgical or cloth masks, according to a CDC study. Wearing an N95 or KN95 mask reduces the odds of testing positive for SARS-CoV-2 by 83%.
https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-car ... -n95-masks
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by LawBeefaroni »

stessier wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:14 am
Victoria Raverna wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:22 am
stessier wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:35 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:29 pm Educate me about current thoughts on mask effectiveness. In that last example, is the effectively masked cancer patient not protected on a train of unmasked (bandits)?
Enlarge Image
Looking at that, I think it is stupid for selfish people who don't want to wear masks to encourage other to not wearing masks. If I don't like to wear masks, I'll encourage people to wear it so I'll be safer.
Except if you (the non-masker) is the one who is sick, everyone else is kinda screwed.
He did say "selfish people."



What someone needs to do is make a game. You're on a train, there are X number of infected people, x number of masks, x immunocompromised, etc. You get to place the masks on different people and see the various outcomes. Change the variables around to get an idea of how it works.

Kind of like Girls Live Robots or those other programatic games.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

CDC drops some great info on a Friday afternoon for hospitals:
Updated circumstances when universal use of personal protective equipment should be considered
When SARS-CoV-2 Community Transmission levels are not high, healthcare facilities could choose not to require universal source control.
EDIT: Damn confusing maps
Last edited by Smoove_B on Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:22 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:45 pm Not even sure what those are called, but I assume they are some better version of what was available when the pandemic first broke out (which I guess was N95 and the ugly duck billed ones)
I'd have to see it, but there are a few different style masks. I'm currently using (and have settled on) a KF94 that I add an optional clip to around the back of my head that tightens it down to my face (effectively making it more like an N95). I like the style and it seems to fit my face best. but in terms of comfort the 3M Aura and Gerson n95 masks (that is a duckbill) are also insanely comfortable.
Just looked, the ones I bought recently are also KF94.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Pfizer CEO tests positive for COVID, which really isn't news, but this:
Bourla, 60, back in August had contacted COVID and had started a course of the company's oral COVID-19 antiviral treatment, Paxlovid.
Twice in ~5 weeks? That's the news.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Interesting study published looking at mortality rates and mask requirements around the globe back in the early days of the pandemic in 2020:
In a retrospective cohort study, changes in COVID-19‒related daily mortality rate per million population from February 15 to May 31, 2020 were compared between 27 countries with and 17 countries without face mask mandates in nearly 1 billion (911,446,220 total) people. Longitudinal mixed effect modeling was applied and adjusted for over 10 relevant demographic, social, clinical, and time-dependent confounders.

Average COVID-19 mortality per million was 288.54 in countries without face mask policies and 48.40 in countries with face mask policies. In no mask countries, adjusted average daily increase was 0.1553 − 0.0017 X (days since the first case) log deaths per million, compared with 0.0900 − 0.0009 X (days since the first case) log deaths per million in the countries with a mandate. A total of 60 days into the pandemic, countries without face mask mandates had an average daily increase of 0.0533 deaths per million, compared with the average daily increase of 0.0360 deaths per million for countries with face mask mandates.
Yeah, but what does that mean?


No big deal, just an 80% reduction in per capita covid death in countries that had mask policies.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Alefroth »

mAsKS dOn'T wOrK!1!
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Zaxxon »

Would be interesting to see a similar study using vaccinated individuals. Or at least on a post-vaccination-availability populace.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

I'm sure we'll get there, but the data on masks and mask policies is much easier to collect - along with the gigantic pool of countries and people using them (or that were). Consider that globally there's still somewhere around 2.5 billion (plus or minus) people that have yet to receive a single vaccine. But masks? They're much cheaper, easier to distribute and use (unless they violate deeply held beliefs on freedom).

As was pointed out (again) to me today, currently the TV and Film industry has better Covid-19 protections in place than most businesses, schools, hospitals and nursing homes. It's mind boggling.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

I have a not great story to share. All I can say is, JFC:
An immunocompromised man in Thunder Bay, Ont., who feared the consequences of relaxed public health measures died last month after testing positive for COVID-19.

Joe Lunn, a heart transplant recipient, told CBC News in March that he was worried about the Ontario government's decision to do away with vaccine certificates in public places.

He had also expressed concerns about its plans to end mask mandates, saying he felt safer in public when others were also taking precautions against spreading the virus.

"I have fought too hard to stay alive to give up because you feel inconvenienced by a four-by-four inch cloth," he said at the time.
I'm not sharing to be sensationalist or cause fear. Instead, I'm sharing because the decisions we collectively make as a society impact individuals in our communities - whether we want to admit it or not. This is beyond depressing, but putting an actual name and face to the impact might make the difference somewhere.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by The Meal »

:cry:

Do not love that Evusheld prophylaxis is defeated in upcoming variants. :(
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