LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Skinypupy
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Skinypupy »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:13 am In light of the other horrific things in this thread, book bans seem quaint, but they're targeting LGBTQ+ individuals so, I share:
Fifty-two books by 41 authors will be removed from the libraries of the Alpine School District in Utah, the state’s largest district, following a decision made by the district. The ban affects noteworthy titles such as Nineteen Minutes by Jodi Picoult, Forever… by Judy Blume, and the 2015 Caldecott Honor Book, This One Summer, by Mariko Tamaki and illustrated by Jillian Tamaki. The books were selected for removal after an internal library audit determined that they contain “sensitive material” under a new law, and “do not have literary merit.” Twenty-one of all titles removed (42%) feature LBGTQ+ characters and or themes.

...

PEN America Utah Chapter Leader Paisley Rekdal said: “Alpine School District’s ban on these books—some of which are beloved texts from my own childhood–is a grave and disappointing mistake. Banning books that tackle the complexity of sexuality, gender, identity, and young adulthood out of the misguided fear that younger readers can’t distinguish between fact and fiction, and won’t be able to comprehend and even critique for themselves any idea that challenges them is both patronizing and naïve. People long for more, not less complexity, and young readers should be given the texts—and tools—that allow them to navigate the world they actually live in.”

The audit was catalyzed by the passage this spring of a new law, H.B. 374, “Sensitive Materials In Schools,” and new guidance released by the Office of the Attorney General on June 1 that directed to Local Education Agencies (LEAs) “to immediately remove books from school libraries that are categorically defined as pornography under state statute.” At a July meeting the Alpine School Board explained that they conducted reviews of 275 books from lists provided by parents over a three-day period, resulting in the decision to remove these 52, and to put 32 additional titles into a more thorough investigation this fall, when they can be read “cover to cover.”
That is 100% unsurprising for Alpine School District.

Utah has lots of conservative Mormons, but northern Utah County is a whole different breed. Those are generally the "ultra-Mormons" and they run pretty much everything, making up 82% of the total population in that area. I'm only surprised it wasn't more books, tbh.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Jaymon »

At a July meeting the Alpine School Board explained that they conducted reviews of 275 books from lists provided by parents over a three-day period, resulting in the decision to remove these 52, and to put 32 additional titles into a more thorough investigation this fall, when they can be read “cover to cover.”



Which means of course, the ones already banned were not read cover to cover by the reviewing team, they were just banned.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Probably just read a blurb on a website.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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They probably just did a google search for "[title of book] evil gays" and checked the comment sections of the books that gave results.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Smoove_B »

I'm 100% sure there's lists of books religious groups have created to help parents and residents root out all the evil. No thinking required - if you see these books, get rid of them.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Smoove_B »

Michigan residents vote to defund library:
JAMESTOWN TOWNSHIP—What started as a fight over an LGBTQ-themed graphic novel may end with the closure of a west Michigan public library.

Voters in Jamestown Township, a politically conservative community in Ottawa County, rejected renewal Tuesday of a millage that would support the Patmos Library. That vote guts the library’s operating budget in 2023 — 84 percent of the library’s $245,000 budget comes from property taxes collected through a millage.

Without a millage, the library is likely to run out of money sometime late next year, said Larry Walton, library board president.

There have been protests at other Michigan public libraries and at school board meetings about books with LGBTQ themes. But Tuesday may be the first time a community voted, in effect, to close its library rather than have it remain open with books some consider to be “indoctrinating” children.

Voters on Tuesday rejected the millage renewal by a 25-point margin — 62 percent to 37 percent — on the same day voters approved millages for road improvements and the fire department.

Ten years earlier, a library millage at a slightly lower rate was approved by 37 percentage points.

For the average home with a market value of $250,000, the new millage, if approved, would have increased taxes about $24.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by LawBeefaroni »

The alternative is what, sitting down and talking with your kids about what they're reading? Maybe reading it yourself?

Who's got time for that? Parenting what?
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Zarathud »

Or going with your kids to the library so you can supervise them? Or standing by as they check books out?

Let’s face it, these aren’t places where people who go to their library anyway.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by malchior »

I'm sure there are people who love the library there. Unfortunately there are enough trash people there that things are starting to come apart now. And that isn't just a problem happening there.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Smoove_B »

This could also be posted in the domestic violent extremism thread (are you sensing a theme?), but things are getting nutty in Boston:
Boston Children’s Hospital said on Tuesday that its staff has faced a flood of violent threats and harassment sparked by a false claim made by the viral LibsofTikTok Twitter account.

The account, run by Brooklyn real estate agent Chaya Raichik, tweeted on August 11 that “Boston Children's Hospital is now offering ‘gender-affirming hysterectomies’ for young girls.” The claim has been widely debunked by fact-checking groups—but as is typical in anti-trans rhetoric, facts rarely matter, and the claims were shared widely on right-wing social media accounts.

As a result, the hospital and its staff have faced a torrent of abuse.

“In response to commentary last week critical of our Gender Multispecialty Service (GeMS) Program, Boston Children's Hospital has been the target of a large volume of hostile internet activity, phone calls, and harassing emails, including threats of violence toward our clinicians and staff,” the hospital said in a statement posted to Twitter.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Is Chaya Raichik getting appropriately maligned?
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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If by "maligned' you mean "wealthy", then maybe?
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by LawBeefaroni »

I mean if a Children's Hospital is fair game...
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by LordMortis »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:41 pm I mean if a Children's Hospital is fair game...
That's my first thought but I'm not a very good person. :x :oops:
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Skinypupy »

I hate my state sometimes.

After their daughters were beat by a girl in sports, Utah parents triggered investigation into whether she was transgender
After one competitor “outclassed” the rest of the field in a girls’ state-level competition last year, the parents of the competitors who placed second and third lodged a complaint with the Utah High School Activities Association calling into question the winner’s gender.

David Spatafore, the UHSAA’s legislative representative, addressing the Utah Legislature’s Education Interim Committee on Wednesday, said the association — without informing the student or family members about the inquiry — asked the student’s school to investigate.

The school examined the students’ enrollment records.

“The school went back to kindergarten and she’d always been a female,” he said.

To protect the student’s identity, Spatafore said he would not reveal the sport, the classification of play nor the school the student attended.

He told committee members about the events in response to their questions of whether the UHSAA, which sanctions and oversees high school activities, receives such complaints and how they are handled.

Spatafore said the association has received other complaints, some that said “that female athlete doesn’t look feminine enough.”
Fuck every one of the people who triggered this "investigation".
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Honestly, that family should immediately open two other investigations to force the other two girls/families into proving the gender of 2nd and 3rd place winners as well.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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...and the gender of the coaches. You never know when gender bias is involved.

While we're at it, the section of the stadium in the back left of the field seemed to be cheering a few decibels lower than expected from a group of mothers. Let's get an investigation going on that as well.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Skinypupy wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:34 am
“The school went back to kindergarten and she’d always been a female,” he said.
That only proves the parents started radical therapy early.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Smoove_B »

JFC already with these people

A Nebraska school board closed a 54-year-old high school newspaper after student journalists ran a Pride month issue w/ an editorial criticizing Florida’s don’t say gay law. The admin had previously forced a trans student to use his deadname as his byline
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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These kids will remember what the old guard did. It won’t be their world forever.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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hepcat wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:21 pm These kids will remember what the old guard did. It won’t be their world forever.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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That picture of Mitch only reinforces my statement.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Smoove_B »

In the words of Kite Man, "Hell yeah!"


Crowds of students have begun to walk out of Northern Virginia schools in protest of Gov. Youngkin’s proposed restrictions on transgender students’ rights.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Is there a designated walkout-area? That's so weird. Although I guess necessary so they aren't just all wandering off.


Here, stand still in this cramped cattle corral as a means of protest.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Remember, protests are only acceptable when they are pre-organized with authorities and don't substantially disrupt anyone else's day.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:11 pm That's so weird. Although I guess necessary so they aren't just all wandering off.
As you then say - it actually makes sense.

I can't imagine running a high school and not trying to give them a corralled space on school property to "leave the school" into. I probably still get total credit for the day.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Unagi wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:30 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:11 pm That's so weird. Although I guess necessary so they aren't just all wandering off.
As you then say - it actually makes sense.

I can't imagine running a high school and not trying to give them a corralled space on school property to "leave the school" into. I probably still get total credit for the day.
How about "don't leave the parking lot." It just looks so odd.

"Students exit school in scheduled and orderly fashion into pre-arranged holding pen in act of 'defiance' to protest bigoted governor." So patronizing towards them.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Smoove_B »

Hey, they need to start somewhere and visibly showing support (in a confined area) for their peers in a public demonstration has value.

Gotta ease them into tossing Molotov cocktails, aight?
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Jaymon »

They are visibly protesting the governers decision. And they got their visibility, obviously. So thats a win for the students.

But also, they are not protesting directly against their teachers or principle. So the teachers say, OK you have the right to protest, but please don't leave school grounds, we are still responsible for your safety and welfare during school hours.

The students got their protest and made national news. The teachers didn't get in trouble for letting students leave school grounds. And I assume the social studies teacher had a massively good time teaching kids about "stand up for your rights"
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Having attended far more schools than most growing up, I can see their approach as valuable. Good schools support orderly civil disobedience, as they know it's value in American History. Foolish schools prohibit it and make it into something bigger and out of control, putting themselves in the crosshairs as much as the subject of the protest. Smart schools find a way to organize it to keep the students safe and prevent it from getting out of hand.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Holman »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:13 am In light of the other horrific things in this thread, book bans seem quaint, but they're targeting LGBTQ+ individuals so, I share:
[...]

PEN America Utah Chapter Leader Paisley Rekdal said: “Alpine School District’s ban on these books—some of which are beloved texts from my own childhood–is a grave and disappointing mistake. Banning books that tackle the complexity of sexuality, gender, identity, and young adulthood out of the misguided fear that younger readers can’t distinguish between fact and fiction, and won’t be able to comprehend and even critique for themselves any idea that challenges them is both patronizing and naïve. People long for more, not less complexity, and young readers should be given the texts—and tools—that allow them to navigate the world they actually live in.”

[...]
I missed this post earlier, but I was re-reading the thread and feel lucky to state that I went to grad school with Paisley Rekdal. She's awesome and was always one of the smartest people in the room.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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A new campaign to get the NY Times to report more responsibly on transgender issues.
The New York Times has long been the standard for excellence in journalism: A media outlet that New Yorkers, Americans, and people around the world looked to for ethical, thorough reporting, and thoughtful opinion pieces. But for more than a year, the New York Times has stood for something else: irresponsible, biased coverage of transgender people. The Times has repeatedly platformed cisgender (non-transgender) people spreading inaccurate and harmful misinformation about transgender people and issues. This is damaging to the paper’s credibility. And it is damaging to all LGBTQ people, especially our youth, who say debates about trans equality negatively impact their mental health, which is a contributing factor to the high suicide rates for LGBTQ youth.

It is appalling that the Times would dedicate so many resources and pages to platforming the voices of extremist anti-LGBTQ activists who have built their careers on denigrating and dehumanizing LGBTQ people, especially transgender people. While there have been a few fair stories, mostly human interest stories, those articles are not getting front-page placement or sent to app users via push notification like the irresponsible pieces are.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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AWS260 wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:07 pm A new campaign to get the NY Times to report more responsibly on transgender issues.
The New York Times has long been the standard for excellence in journalism: A media outlet that New Yorkers, Americans, and people around the world looked to for ethical, thorough reporting, and thoughtful opinion pieces. But for more than a year, the New York Times has stood for something else: irresponsible, biased coverage of transgender people. The Times has repeatedly platformed cisgender (non-transgender) people spreading inaccurate and harmful misinformation about transgender people and issues. This is damaging to the paper’s credibility. And it is damaging to all LGBTQ people, especially our youth, who say debates about trans equality negatively impact their mental health, which is a contributing factor to the high suicide rates for LGBTQ youth.

It is appalling that the Times would dedicate so many resources and pages to platforming the voices of extremist anti-LGBTQ activists who have built their careers on denigrating and dehumanizing LGBTQ people, especially transgender people. While there have been a few fair stories, mostly human interest stories, those articles are not getting front-page placement or sent to app users via push notification like the irresponsible pieces are.
Something here is certainly appalling, but it's not the NYT . . .
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Why? :?


I read through their article and they seem to have some valid points.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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hepcat wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:38 pm Why? :?


I read through their article and they seem to have some valid points.
Did you go find any of the specific NYT articles they were referencing? I did, and when I did, it certainly didn't seem to me that they supported the claim that the NYT is "platforming" - what a stupid word - "extremist anti-LGBTQ activists."

I see this is as more of the same shit: Stick to the dogma or STFU.
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Covfefe!
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Kurth wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:46 pm
hepcat wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:38 pm Why? :?


I read through their article and they seem to have some valid points.
Did you go find any of the specific NYT articles they were referencing? I did, and when I did, it certainly didn't seem to me that they supported the claim that the NYT is "platforming" - what a stupid word - "extremist anti-LGBTQ activists."

I see this is as more of the same shit: Stick to the dogma or STFU.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Smoove_B »

Kurth wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:46 pm I did, and when I did, it certainly didn't seem to me that they supported the claim that the NYT is "platforming" - what a stupid word - "extremist anti-LGBTQ activists."
Did you notice how they hired David French as an opinion columnist last month? The same David French that has defended the Alliance Defending Freedom - a gathering of fundamentalists that has been labeled as a hate group by (checks notes) the Southern Poverty Law Center?
I see this is as more of the same shit: Stick to the dogma or STFU.
When historically marginalized groups are speaking up and speaking out against hate, I'm hesitant to call that "dogma". This is the same mentality that labels being respectful as being "woke". If a group like GLAAD is taking an official position on this, I'm going to trust that they've done their homework.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Kurth »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:34 pm
Kurth wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:46 pm I did, and when I did, it certainly didn't seem to me that they supported the claim that the NYT is "platforming" - what a stupid word - "extremist anti-LGBTQ activists."
Did you notice how they hired David French as an opinion columnist last month? The same David French that has defended the Alliance Defending Freedom - a gathering of fundamentalists that has been labeled as a hate group by (checks notes) the Southern Poverty Law Center?
French is a civil libertarian. He’s also an Evangelical Christian and a noted lawyer who has taken on many cases regarding protection of religious liberties. He’s also someone who has been viciously attacked by the Alt Right for his objection to Donald Trump and MAGAism. He contributes to The New Yorker and the Atlantic. Do I agree with much of what he has to say? Nope, but that doesn’t make him a hate-spewing extremist, either.

Hell, here’s a Wikipedia excerpt on his big fight with Sohrab Ahmari that led to Ahmari’s piece, “Against David French-ism.”
A high-profile dispute between Ahmari and National Review writer David French broke out over the summer of 2019 as a result of the publication of Ahmari's polemic "Against David French-ism", sparking numerous essays and commentaries in politically conservative publications like National Review and The American Conservative,[20] as well as in moderate and progressive outlets like The New York Times, The New Yorker, and The Atlantic.[21]

The dispute began on May 26, 2019, when Ahmari expressed on Twitter his frustration with a Facebook advertisement for a children's drag queen reading hour at a library in Sacramento, California, which he described as "transvestic fetishism". In the tweet, Ahmari argued that there is no "polite, David French-ian third way around the cultural civil war".[22] This prompted a response from French in a May 28 essay in National Review entitled "Decency Is No Barrier to Justice or the Common Good".[22] The dispute escalated significantly after Ahmari published the essay "Against David French-ism" in the conservative religious journal First Things on May 29, 2019.[23] In the essay, Ahmari argued that French was insufficiently socially conservative, and that his belief in individual autonomy was contributing to the overall degradation of American society.[24] The direct targeting of French and the impromptu creation of the "David French-ism" political philosophy led the essay to gain significant notoriety, prompting a response from French[25][26] and the publication of numerous commentaries.[20][21] On September 5, 2019, French and Ahmari engaged in an in-person political debate moderated by New York Times columnist Ross Douthat at the Catholic University of America in Washington D.C.,[27] again prompting a flurry of commentaries.[28]

The dispute centered on their differing opinions on how conservatives should approach cultural and political debate, with Ahmari deriding what he calls "David French-ism", a political persuasion he defines as believing "that the institutions of a technocratic market society are neutral zones that should, in theory, accommodate both traditional Christianity and the libertine ways and paganized ideology of the other side".[23] He argues that this belief leads to an ineffective conservative movement, and contends that the best way for culturally conservative values to prevail in society is a strategy of "discrediting...opponents and weakening or destroying their institutions", which he maintains is a tactic already utilized by progressives, leaving conservatives who adhere to the David French-style of politics impotent in what he views as a raging culture war in the United States.[23] He argues that the political realm should be viewed as one of "war and enmity", and that the power of the government should be directly utilized to impose culturally conservative values on society.[23] French, by contrast, advocates a conservative libertarian approach in which decency, civility, and respect for individual rights are emphasized, and argues that Ahmari's beliefs "forsake" the philosophy of classical liberalism that the Founding Fathers of the United States espoused.[26][25] He placed particular criticism on Ahmari's desire for direct government intervention in the lives of individuals, which he argues is not only antithetical to liberty but is a politically ruinous tactic for conservatives, who would end up on the receiving end of progressive policies if the government were given greater license to interfere in the private lives of individuals.[25]
So, we’re going to throw a flag on the NYT because they are “platforming” this guy? Give me a break.
Smoove_B wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:34 pm
Kurth wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:46 pm
I see this is as more of the same shit: Stick to the dogma or STFU.
When historically marginalized groups are speaking up and speaking out against hate, I'm hesitant to call that "dogma". This is the same mentality that labels being respectful as being "woke". If a group like GLAAD is taking an official position on this, I'm going to trust that they've done their homework.
No, I disagree with you here.

First, I think there needs to be a massive reduction on the use of the word “hate.” Is that really what the NYT is peddling? One of the articles that triggered this new anti-NYT campaign was The Battle Over Gender Therapy - “More teenagers than ever are seeking transitions, but the medical community that treats them is deeply divided about why — and what to do to help them,” by Emily Bazelon. To me, that article was a thoughtful take on some of the tricky and complicated questions about how to treat kids and young adults who identify as trans. I can certainly understand why members of the trans community might object to it, but it’s not “hate.” It feels like anything we (collective we) don’t agree with or that we see as opposing the best interests and welfare of our group is considered “hate” these days. Through overuse, that word is on the edge of being so diluted as to be nearly meaningless.

Second, I don’t think historically marginalized groups are less likely to lean into an “us or them” dogma with a heavy emphasis on ideological purity. In fact, I think they’re often more likely to go in that direction given their history of marginalization. I think when a group has been victimized and abused, there’s a natural tendency to bucketize the world into allies and enemies. But the world is a whole lot more nuanced than that.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Kurth wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:43 am
Second, I don’t think historically marginalized groups are less likely to lean into an “us or them” dogma with a heavy emphasis on ideological purity. In fact, I think they’re often more likely to go in that direction given their history of marginalization. I think when a group has been victimized and abused, there’s a natural tendency to bucketize the world into allies and enemies. But the world is a whole lot more nuanced than that.
I think you are probably right, but I can see why that happens. I literally cannot put myself in the shoes of a black man in the 1950s, and I can understand the life experience of a trans teen even less. I fully believe that is a viewpoint you cannot get without living through the dysmorphia of feeling like you don't match your body, that your very existence is wrong. Then going through the pain and social ridicule of starting to live as what you feel as your true gender yet now being the target of scorn and hate. Trying to get people to understand what you are going through only to have the government tell you that they know better than you do what you should do with your body. I'd divide the world into allies and enemies too.
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