Fedex Theft

[LawBeefaroni]

Also, I try to avoid going off script. I do exactly what they tell me to do but keep copies of everything. Zero editorial content.

What do you mean here? This is what I am doing. Unfortunately they aren't doing anything but the bare minimum here. And I'm going to have to go to extra lengths for them to do the right thing. I am also thinking of going to one of those news "problem solver" folks because the story is wacky enough that it might have some interest. I really don't want to be stuck here but they are really screwing me.

I meant just report that you didn't get what you ordered. Don't try to solve it for them or get the police involved, etc. Not saying you did anything wrong but you are working with people who have to stick to basic decision trees and anything they they can't parse gets put into a special case bucket and who knows what can happen..

[malchior]

Also, I try to avoid going off script. I do exactly what they tell me to do but keep copies of everything. Zero editorial content.

What do you mean here? This is what I am doing. Unfortunately they aren't doing anything but the bare minimum here. And I'm going to have to go to extra lengths for them to do the right thing. I am also thinking of going to one of those news "problem solver" folks because the story is wacky enough that it might have some interest. I really don't want to be stuck here but they are really screwing me.

I meant just report that you didn't get what you ordered. Don't try to solve it for them or get the police involved, etc. Not saying you did anything wrong but you are working with people who have to stick to basic decision trees and anything they they can't parse gets put into a special case bucket and who knows what can happen..

Right. FWIW I wasn't trying to solve it for them. When I reported it, I necessarily had to tell them the contents were not what they were supposed to be. They kept falling back to the fact that the package was delivered. I was forced to explain over and over that it was substituted. They also were the ones who ultimately told me to contact law enforcement for what it's worth.

Essentially as far as I can tell through the layers of useless phone and chat 'box checkers' is that BB's position is that we don't care how or where it got stolen...it's your problem. Forget that the law says I have to receive the item. I received a box with something else. I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure this doesn't meet the definition of 'customer received the merchandise'. Now if it made it to my porch and a porch pirate took it or swapped it they might have something tangible to hang from. Instead, they are just assuming I'll eat it. Fuck that. And fuck them.

[Jaymann]

Do you have a date for small claims action?

[malchior]

Do you have a date for small claims action?

Not even there yet. The credit card company is going to re-open my chargeback claim. I faxed over the police report. (Which again will provide them with the narrative and the photos already provided). If that doesn't work, I'll go with a demand letter to BB. That'll probably work. I'm just going to keep pushing. It's frustrating as all hell but I have faith that if this did end up in front of a judge I'll be in good hands. Like I said, I had a package that was out for delivery to someone else and I have a video that clearly shows FedEx drop one package. It's a no-brainer.

[LawBeefaroni]

Also, I try to avoid going off script. I do exactly what they tell me to do but keep copies of everything. Zero editorial content.

What do you mean here? This is what I am doing. Unfortunately they aren't doing anything but the bare minimum here. And I'm going to have to go to extra lengths for them to do the right thing. I am also thinking of going to one of those news "problem solver" folks because the story is wacky enough that it might have some interest. I really don't want to be stuck here but they are really screwing me.

I meant just report that you didn't get what you ordered. Don't try to solve it for them or get the police involved, etc. Not saying you did anything wrong but you are working with people who have to stick to basic decision trees and anything they they can't parse gets put into a special case bucket and who knows what can happen..

Right. FWIW I wasn't trying to solve it for them. When I reported it, I necessarily had to tell them the contents were not what they were supposed to be. They kept falling back to the fact that the package was delivered. I was forced to explain over and over that it was substituted. They also were the ones who ultimately told me to contact law enforcement for what it's worth.

Essentially as far as I can tell through the layers of useless phone and chat 'box checkers' is that BB's position is that we don't care how or where it got stolen...it's your problem. Forget that the law says I have to receive the item. I received a box with something else. I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure this doesn't meet the definition of 'customer received the merchandise'. Now if it made it to my porch and a porch pirate took it or swapped it they might have something tangible to hang from. Instead, they are just assuming I'll eat it. Fuck that. And fuck them.

Didn't they ask you to send it back and you wouldn't? That probably broke their system. Again, can't blame you. Its just how they operate.



FWIW, I've had issues with smaller companies thst actually listen and let their people think for themselves. Those are actually rewarding experiences and they have always taken care of it. But the big ones? You have to act like a mindless drone or risk breaking something.

[malchior]

Also, I try to avoid going off script. I do exactly what they tell me to do but keep copies of everything. Zero editorial content.

What do you mean here? This is what I am doing. Unfortunately they aren't doing anything but the bare minimum here. And I'm going to have to go to extra lengths for them to do the right thing. I am also thinking of going to one of those news "problem solver" folks because the story is wacky enough that it might have some interest. I really don't want to be stuck here but they are really screwing me.

I meant just report that you didn't get what you ordered. Don't try to solve it for them or get the police involved, etc. Not saying you did anything wrong but you are working with people who have to stick to basic decision trees and anything they they can't parse gets put into a special case bucket and who knows what can happen..

Right. FWIW I wasn't trying to solve it for them. When I reported it, I necessarily had to tell them the contents were not what they were supposed to be. They kept falling back to the fact that the package was delivered. I was forced to explain over and over that it was substituted. They also were the ones who ultimately told me to contact law enforcement for what it's worth.

Essentially as far as I can tell through the layers of useless phone and chat 'box checkers' is that BB's position is that we don't care how or where it got stolen...it's your problem. Forget that the law says I have to receive the item. I received a box with something else. I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure this doesn't meet the definition of 'customer received the merchandise'. Now if it made it to my porch and a porch pirate took it or swapped it they might have something tangible to hang from. Instead, they are just assuming I'll eat it. Fuck that. And fuck them.

Didn't they ask you to send it back and you wouldn't? That probably broke their system. Again, can't blame you. Its just how they operate.

No. They never asked me to return anything. They actually told me originally they were (edit: sending me a replacement then they switched to processing a refund). Then one day they sent me an email essentially closing the case, kiboshed the refund, said kindly fuck off, and deal with law enforcement. I went through at least 10 of their scripted chats jumping through their hoops. Hoops that have no off-ramp for something atypical. That's fine but now the charge back is following the same dead end path where they don't even read the damn claim. Now acknowledged at least but we'll see if it changes anything.

FWIW, I've had issues with smaller companies thst actually listen and let their people think for themselves. Those are actually rewarding experiences and they have always taken care of it. But the big ones? You have to act like a mindless drone or risk breaking something.

This is actually the problem. They keep saying, "package confirmed as received. Case closed." It's their path of least resistance. Eventually I had to try (unsuccessfully) to get anyone with a brain or authority to please listen to me to say that isn't the problem. Their 'supervisor' was pretty much indistinguishable in power/ability from the chat agent. I tried a physical store manager - on three occasions - and never laid an eye on them to try to find a path on this. That is why I feel like I'm stuck in something straight out of Douglas Adam's Bureaucracy Infocom game right now. I'm not exaggerating this. It is as ridiculous as I'm describing it.

[Carpet_pissr]

https://www.deliveryroutesforsale.com

[Jaymon]

If you do call back to either fedex or bestbuy, before you call, set up a recording somehow. When you call, clearly and specifically tell the agent you are recording. Don't worry, contact centers record calls all the time, so can you, its all perfectly legal.

Start the call with "I am recording this call as evidence for a potential lawsuit. Please be aware that everything you say may end up as evidence in court"


You are going to get an entirely different experience from the call, and should get quickly escalated to a human.

[malchior]

If you do call back to either fedex or bestbuy, before you call, set up a recording somehow. When you call, clearly and specifically tell the agent you are recording. Don't worry, contact centers record calls all the time, so can you, its all perfectly legal.

That isn't necessarily true and I'm not talking to them anymore anyway. There isn't anything to follow up on there now.

Start the call with "I am recording this call as evidence for a potential lawsuit. Please be aware that everything you say may end up as evidence in court"


You are going to get an entirely different experience from the call, and should get quickly escalated to a human.

I expect they'd be trained to just drop my call.

[Jaymon]

Contact centers I have worked at always had specific escalation paths for callers who threaten legal action

[LawBeefaroni]

Didn't they ask you to send it back and you wouldn't? That probably broke their system. Again, can't blame you. Its just how they operate.

No. They never asked me to return anything. They actually told me originally they were (edit: sending me a replacement then they switched to processing a refund). Then one day they sent me an email essentially closing the case, kiboshed the refund, said kindly fuck off, and deal with law enforcement. I went through at least 10 of their scripted chats jumping through their hoops. Hoops that have no off-ramp for something atypical. That's fine but now the charge back is following the same dead end path where they don't even read the damn claim. Now acknowledged at least but we'll see if it changes anything.

I guess I was thinking of this:

It's not a police issue. File a claim with FedEx.

It's a felony crime in NJ for sure. In any case, I called Fedex. They told me Best Buy has to do it. Fedex didn't seem to care I had someone else's package. I called Best Buy and the front line workers keep asking me to return the item. They don't seem to get the problem. It's so painful. I've asked for a Manager like 10 times and the guy is failing my turing test as he simply won't get off the script that says, "Return the item and we'll replace it". I can't return someone else's item. The whole thing is crazy.

Return it as received, ball is in their court and they're still on script.

[malchior]

Didn't they ask you to send it back and you wouldn't? That probably broke their system. Again, can't blame you. Its just how they operate.

No. They never asked me to return anything. They actually told me originally they were (edit: sending me a replacement then they switched to processing a refund). Then one day they sent me an email essentially closing the case, kiboshed the refund, said kindly fuck off, and deal with law enforcement. I went through at least 10 of their scripted chats jumping through their hoops. Hoops that have no off-ramp for something atypical. That's fine but now the charge back is following the same dead end path where they don't even read the damn claim. Now acknowledged at least but we'll see if it changes anything.

I guess I was thinking of this:

It's not a police issue. File a claim with FedEx.

It's a felony crime in NJ for sure. In any case, I called Fedex. They told me Best Buy has to do it. Fedex didn't seem to care I had someone else's package. I called Best Buy and the front line workers keep asking me to return the item. They don't seem to get the problem. It's so painful. I've asked for a Manager like 10 times and the guy is failing my turing test as he simply won't get off the script that says, "Return the item and we'll replace it". I can't return someone else's item. The whole thing is crazy.

Return it as received, ball is in their court and they're still on script.

I had forgotten about this, that was day 1, I had to go look at my notes to even see what I was referring to there, but it set the mood for the whole affair. Day 1 was a bit chaotic because I had several conversations about this issue. Edit: This was the first chat where they were unsure if they were going to process it as the wrong item or lost item. I was just frustrated because they clearly had no model to deal with the problem...which ended up being true. They ultimately said they processed it as lost which would trigger an investigation with FedEx.

As an aside, chewing on this I'd argue if it had gone down the 'wrong item' path and I sent them the catalogue back it could have been bad for me. I suppose yeah it could have gone a better way but that's hindsight talking. I also don't know why that'd put the ball back in their court. They weren't the ones who shipped that item either. That could easily be misinterpreted in bad ways for me.

That actually prompted me to visit the store. Believe it or not web chat isn't the greatest way to deal with complex issues so I thought maybe a human being looking at it would help. I explained the situation and they didn't know what to do either. They looked at it and said we don't stock that. He then said I can't accept a return of this. (Naturally and I never asked them to do so). He ended up looking the order up in the computer and said...well they are sending you a replacement anyway. I asked what I should do with it and he told me I could keep it if I want. I mean who would turn their nose up to a restaurant supply catalog that cost ~$1200. Following that inanity was attempt 1 to get a manager or a name of a manager. Both failed.

When I got home, I connected back in and confirmed with a chat agent they were sending a replacement. This was a Monday (2/28). I was told it'd ship Thursday. On Thursday (3/3), I checked in because their system still said the order was delivered, I had received nothing at all confirming the replacement, and just followed up on status. They said essentially, 'that's normal and the system would generate an email when it shipped'. On Saturday (3/5), when I still had nothing I was told it was going to ship on Monday.

On Monday (3/7), I got an email that the item was out of stock and they'd be issuing a refund. A chat agent confirmed that as well. Following that was attempt 2 to calling the local store to again try to talk to a manager or get a first name.

I waited until Tuesday (3/15) to check on status of the refund. The agent said it was still being investigated. In the middle of that conversation, they said they were going to put in another request for refund to bump it because it usually doesn't take that long. About 5 minutes later, I got an email saying they weren't going to refund and to contact law enforcement. This was the third time I tried to talk to a local manager or get a first name. At that point I then decided to file the police report and begin the chargeback.

Again this IMO wasn't about me mucking up their process. They have a broken process that was unable to decode the situation. The credit card company with a cleaned up version of that narrative, and pictures, essentially fell back to the same 'package received' narrative. That's horseshit and that isn't my fault. If I'm expressing frustration ... well I think I've earned the right to it. I've been treated pretty badly and I'm telling other people about it because I think bad actors deserve accountability.

[LawBeefaroni]

100% agree thet it's not your fault and they had several points along the way to make it right and didn't.

As an outsider it's all speculation on why they kept screwing up. My opinion is that they are all forced to be mindless bots who break on no standard input.



I also feel your frustration. I just ended 28 days of trying to get BTC delivered to my wallet from tZero that they said was "hung up" at their custodian. I'm pretty sure they hadn't actually acquired the BTC when I bought it and were waiting for an arb opportunity. I finally got it yesterday and it took all my self control to stick to their script and not go to the SEC as this was unfolding.

[LordMortis]

Quick update - I wasn't give any reason but the credit card company closed my dispute. I tried calling to get an explanation but they only told me it was closed and I was responsible for the charge.

Holy shit. Remind me never to have a Citibank card. That is bonkers...the very VERY few times (4 maybe?) I've disputed stuff on a credit card, it was always resolved in my favor. I always thought if it was less than X amount (where X is probably a lot higher than we would expect), they just process it because cost of 'investigating' is more than X.

Wow.

Have you disputed many credit card charges in the past (this or any other card)?

+1. I've had to dispute charges like 4 times over the course of my adult life and all four times it was no questions asked. It's the an integral reason as to why I use a CC to purchase almost everything.

OtOH, I've had to deal with police reports for theft a couple of times, even where they know who did the stealing and recovered the item. Item was never returned and thief never prosecuted nor even had charges brought.

Also, I've had enough bad experiences with Amazon to empathize with the whole situation up to but not including not getting my money back. It's taken over a month or "it's reshipping" to get back twenty bucks but I've gotten the money back. (eventually not worth the time but the principle and effort already invested kept me going)

I have grown to have an inherent distrust of these delivery services but that's me. I've had packages never arrive, packages left on my doorstep that aren't for me, packages left on my doorstep without warning left for porch pirates, and non delivery notifications left on my door when I was sitting in the living room. I'm likely to change my tune as I sit at home more often and can't get things delivered to a business address but I leery of the system everyone else seems to live by. I need to change my alignment and expectations on this.

Contact centers I have worked at always had specific escalation paths for callers who threaten legal action

I've worked in one phone support center in my career and that was the case, so it must be true for everyone. The script for legal threats was to say terminate conversation and give them contact for legal pursuits.

[malchior]

100% agree thet it's not your fault and they had several points along the way to make it right and didn't.

As an outsider it's all speculation on why they kept screwing up. My opinion is that they are all forced to be mindless bots who break on no standard input.

That is clear but the real problem is that there should be a path to a non-drone. That I tried over and over to escalate is really what sets me off. Also, the web chats are infuriating. Beyond the scripting inanity...the delay means any one of them are an hour long. They've got these folks banging on 20 chats simultaneously probably. In the end, the worst part is there is *no local alternative* anymore. They've hollowed and consolidated it all away. You pretty much have to deal with this garbage.

I also feel your frustration. I just ended 28 days of trying to get BTC delivered to my wallet from tZero that they said was "hung up" at their custodian. I'm pretty sure they hadn't actually acquired the BTC when I bought it and were waiting for an arb opportunity.

This sounds about right in my experience with those folks. I had a transaction tied up...not that long mind you...but luckily it was miniscule amounts from my abortive mining attempts last summer.

[Isgrimnur]

Be a Karen and escalate.

[gilraen]

Figured I'll throw my FedEx story into this thread. I bought a Digital Storm laptop last year, and earlier this year I noticed that the screen was coming detached from the frame. I called them, and they said just ship it back to them for warranty repair. They ordered a shipping label from FedEx for me to print - I didn't deal with FedEx at that point, I was just supposed to package the laptop in the original box it came with and drop it off at the FedEx store. The box made it very obvious that there was a computer inside (Digital Storm logo all over the place, sticker to warn of a Li-Ion battery inside, that sort of thing). I actually had a bad feeling about that but I didn't have any other box, plus I'm pretty sure the sticker is mandatory.

Early July, I dropped off the box at the FedEx counter. Two days later DS received an empty box. They file an insurance claim with FedEx, don't hear back from them for weeks, then FedEx mails me a check for $1000 (the value of the laptop is over $3k). I call DS, they said that FedEx screwed up and was supposed to send *them* the check, since they are the customer (they paid for the shipping label and insurance, it's their FedEx account, etc.) I was worried that they underinsured the laptop but turned out they had secondary insurance for the remainder of the claim since apparently FedEx won't even insure for that much anymore. They ask FedEx to cancel my check and cut another one to them, we all wait another month - FedEx never bothers getting back to them. This is a company that literally spends thousands of dollars on FedEx services, and they can't get an account rep to call them back! So at the end of the day, I cash the check and pay that amount to DS myself, and they ship me a new laptop (in a very non-descript box this time...)

I'm never shipping anything of value via FedEx again, unless I absolutely have to.

[malchior]

Just to give people an update - I haven't been keeping this up to date for reasons you could surmise. When it is over boy do I have a story to tell. And it's why I'm not surprised at all about the post above. I'd underline the advice to check with merchants about what vendors they use and avoid FedEx for any high value items.

[Daehawk]

Speaking of Fex-Ex I came upon a truck in the road with its hazards on and a woman behind it in street clothes..big frumpy loose clothes with shorts trying to lug a large box. I figure it was someone moving or something....as I pass I see its a Fex ex truck. Wow surprised me...the way she was dressed and moving a box way to big for her...totally unpro.

[Carpet_pissr]

Speaking of Fex-Ex I came upon a truck in the road with its hazards on and a woman behind it in street clothes..big frumpy loose clothes with shorts trying to lug a large box. I figure it was someone moving or something....as I pass I see its a Fex ex truck. Wow surprised me...the way she was dressed and moving a box way to big for her...totally unpro.

Many people driving for FedEx are not employed by FedEx, they are independent contractors.

[Isgrimnur]

Which is a common, shitty way to avoid worker protections and collective bargaining.

[stimpy]

Maybe she was stealing the box off the truck while the FedEx employee was elsewhere.

[Carpet_pissr]

Which is a common, shitty way to avoid worker protections and collective bargaining.

Of course, and almost everyone that deals with delivery is and has been skirting the spirit of the related law for years.

It’s one of those issues where someone started looking into the loopholes, poking around, making noise to close them, and magically (lobbying by big pocketed clients) it fell off the radar.

[Rumpy]

With things becoming more and more automated, we need to find ways to get off the scripts and stop passing the buck off to the customer and make them feel they're the problem. It's crazy to think a corporation even has a problem with them. There used to be a time when companies would take ownership of a problem even if it meant a loss to them. The problems with Fedex sound like problems stemming from automation and scripting run amok.

[naednek]

I'm suprised I haven't chimed in...

So my son, who has Cystic Fibrosis is on a miracle drug (well that's what we think because it has done wonders in terms of correcting the issue instead of just masking) called Trikfafta. It's covered by our insurance and it has to be shipped by the drug maker who uses Fed-Ex.

I live in a suburb of Sacramento and basically cookie cutter house. It's so cookie cutter that the 4 streets including mine all have the same house numbers, but different street names. On the day of delivery we have to be home to sign. So they say.

They use Fed-Ex. Fed-Ex guy decides to send it to the 4th street down, but to the correct street #. This was our first expeirence with this, so after some panicking and checking our closest neighbors, we realized it could have been delivered to any one of these 4 houses. I drive down knock on 3 doors, all said they hadn't received anything. I checked the last house and sure enough it was there. The lady was going to drive it back to Fed-Ex rather than just going to our house which is 4 streets down...

I don't know if I should blame Fed-Ex or whoever decides how street address are assigned. But it's completely stupid they make the same #'s on each street.

This med costs $25K a month... We now have it delivered to the Fed-Ex facility and we pick up, which is always fun because they say they have it via email and text but when I arrive they can never locate it on first try.

[msduncan]

FedEx is now the third world country of shipping.

They show up delivering packages at Christmas in wrecked and damaged trucks, trucks they have rented. Etc. It's the opposite of professional.

The day that company finally goes out of business isn't soon enough.

[dbt1949]

Fed Ex ground is all contract labor. So these guys drive whatever is cheapest for them.

[hepcat]

They mess with Ethan, they go too far. I'm about to unleash some whoop ass on these morons. Hold me back, guys.

side note: i'm expecting 4 iPhones for the company. they were supposed to be here last Thursday. I just checked online and FedEx has had them sitting 2 miles away from our office for the last 3 days.

[Scuzz]

FedEx is now the third world country of shipping.

They show up delivering packages at Christmas in wrecked and damaged trucks, trucks they have rented. Etc. It's the opposite of professional.

The day that company finally goes out of business isn't soon enough.

They subcontract out a lot of delivery. Around here they will use Budget Truck rentals during the holiday.

[hepcat]

The other interesting thing is that our FedEx guy...well, the one we usually see...likes to stay long enough after a delivery to tell us about his latest conspiracy theory. During the pandemic, he tried to convince us that the government was putting tracking nanobots in vaccines. I kid you not. Since then, he's mostly been concerned with facebook tracking him "because of his posts".

He's a very odd fellow.

[Jaymann]

Silly man. It's not his posts we're interested in.

[Rumpy]

I mean, if he's already on Facebook, a little late to worry eh? And no doubt he gets a lot of those conspiracy theories via Facebook with his 5G! Ohh noes!!!!!

[msduncan]

The other interesting thing is that our FedEx guy...well, the one we usually see...likes to stay long enough after a delivery to tell us about his latest conspiracy theory. During the pandemic, he tried to convince us that the government was putting tracking nanobots in vaccines. I kid you not. Since then, he's mostly been concerned with facebook tracking him "because of his posts".

He's a very odd fellow.

He might be putting tracking robots on your packages.....

[msduncan]

Also, I always tell people who bring up the whole tracking robots thing that if they carry a phone they are already being tracked from dawn to when they go to sleep. Whether anyone actually looks at it is another question, but they could if they wanted to.

[Rumpy]

Also, I always tell people who bring up the whole tracking robots thing that if they carry a phone they are already being tracked from dawn to when they go to sleep. Whether anyone actually looks at it is another question, but they could if they wanted to.

Exactly. It's a ridiculous objection. Meanwhile you have these organized groups protesting against the vaccines and mandates, all using their phones to organize, and most of them through Facebook. If they're that worried, maybe they should throw their phones away.

[Carpet_pissr]

Also, I always tell people who bring up the whole tracking robots thing that if they carry a phone they are already being tracked from dawn to when they go to sleep. Whether anyone actually looks at it is another question, but they could if they wanted to.

Are you suggesting that they aren’t tracking while we sleep?!

‘Santa Claus Is Coming to Town’ only loosely refers to Santa Claus. It’s a message from the future to warn us.

[gilraen]

They can start by tracking the packages properly.

[Isgrimnur]

[Rumpy]

So, they can track Santa, but not packages... Something's not right there.

[Punisher]

Hmmm. This thread is interesting.
I backed a kickstarter for a handheld scanner from Revopoint.
I never recieved it from FedEx but it was marked as delivered.
The odd thing is that the next day the packaged was scanned again...in another state... just looks like it got lost. FedEx wont do anything since they require the shipper to file a claim. They even left me a VM telling me to have the shipper file. I went back and forth with Revopoint and they basically said FedEx has it as delivered. When I pointed out the scan in another state the same day, they said the scan was an accident. Im not quite sure how you accidently scan a lavel in another state without the label actually being present.
My last email to Revopoint had a copy of the VM from FedEx telling them to file a claim.
Not gonna bother buying anything from them again.
Since its a KS the money is pretty much gone. KS doeant care (I filed a complaint to them about someone who canceled a project...the day after the KS money cleared... nothing happened)