It's all calvinball now

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

It's all calvinball now

Post by malchior »

I figured with the spate of ridiculous lower court rulings popping out nearly daily it might be helpful to have a thread documenting how rule of law has become a game of "conservative" calvinball in the United States.

To start we have this garbage where MAGAt judges ruled today that Texas apparently gets to write the rules for how private companies can regulate hate speech on their platforms.



User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 54567
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by Smoove_B »

I'm not really sure what to make of all this. Are the decades+ plans to stack the courts finally paying off? Or did the SCotUS Roe v. Wade decision earlier this year signal that judges could start taking crazy pills? It just seems like we're living in exceptionally strange times.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by malchior »

This has been incremental. It took years for this to happen but Trump supercharged it with extremely politicized judges who are more interested in being tyrants than judges. In this case, the 5th is particularly full of Trumpist judges versus say Trump judges. That distinction is important right now because judges have always been arrayed along a political continuum. Someone appointed by Trump isn't necessarily a complete crazy just because he nominated them. Unfortunately a lot more crazy, unfit judges got through the door and we might have reached a tipping point where the crazy is winning enough to do real damage to the prestige of the legal system. On top, you have SCOTUS acting like politicized tyrants now. It's bad. Really bad.

However we have decisions like this one where you'll likely hear almost all serious 1st amendment lawyers say this is just terrible. Much like Cannon's decision. They ignore the law, precedent, and even the facts to deliver partisan outcomes. I think it's notable that staid legal voices are essentially starting to say - this is getting crazy. I'd have to dig it up but someone related that sometimes the decisions out of the 5th are accepting fringe and outrageous legal theories (e.g., the Kraken legal arguments) or what someone might have shouted at Tucker Carlson on Fox News. That's not great even if they get cleaned up by SCOTUS eventually. Along the way it does great damage to the reputation of the legal system. But it's even worse when you consider that in the meantime they are doing harm and wielding raw power injudiciously along the way.

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55316
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by LawBeefaroni »

It's farcical.

Does this make corporations congress now?
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by LordMortis »

In related POS fraud posing as the law news

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politic ... wyer-says/
AUSTIN — Lawyers representing the men who accused Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton of securities fraud will be able to question him under oath — but not until after the election.

Collin County District Court Judge Cynthia Wheless has ordered Paxton to sit for a one-hour deposition on Nov. 28, court records show.

Terry Jacobson, who along with Dallas lawyer Alex More represents GOP Rep. Byron Cook of Corsicana and Florida billionaire businessman Joel Hochberg, confirmed that Wheless made the decision at a hearing Friday and signed the order Tuesday.

Paxton’s agency and campaign staff, as well as his attorney, Mitch Little, did not respond to requests for comment.
User avatar
Daehawk
Posts: 63530
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:11 am

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by Daehawk »

You'd be damned right if I had a company Id censor hate and stupidity and if the US didn't allow me to do it I wouldn't have my company IN the US because it would no longer be the true US but a puppet state in the hands of imbeciles.
--------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 16437
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by Zarathud »

Only if they truly believe.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 19324
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by Jaymann »

So if no corporate censorship, could you hire a Daehawk to go after racists?
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 20335
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Utah

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by Skinypupy »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:51 pm Does this make corporations congress now?
You ask this as if they already weren’t.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
User avatar
stessier
Posts: 29819
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:30 pm
Location: SC

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by stessier »

Could one of our Texans please go on Truth Social and post about all the accomplishments Biden has had and how ineffective the Republicans have been in stopping him? When the post gets taken down, you'll have a case to sue Truth. I think the law provide money for damages.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles__2019: 2000.00 miles
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55316
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Skinypupy wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:27 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:51 pm Does this make corporations congress now?
You ask this as if they already weren’t.
Oh, they own Congress for sure. But now it's constitutional?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


stessier wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:21 am Could one of our Texans please go on Truth Social and post about all the accomplishments Biden has had and how ineffective the Republicans have been in stopping him? When the post gets taken down, you'll have a case to sue Truth. I think the law provide money for damages.
I tried to sign up for Truth Social a while ago to see what kind of shit is on there. They require a phone number and don't accept a Google voice number. So no account for me.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by LordMortis »

Aren't corporations people? Don't they have the right to not be told what they have to say by Attorney's General? Can they refuse Fuck Head on religious grounds? Like disallowing abortions is against a corporate religion and therefore they can tell you to go fuck your corrupt ass right the fuck off?


https://www.history.com/topics/united-s ... #section_4

The majority opinion, written by Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, held that the First Amendment protects the right to free speech, even if the speaker is a corporation, and effectively removed limitations on corporate funding of independent political broadcasts.

Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Antonin Scalia, Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas joined Kennedy in the majority, while Justices John Paul Stevens, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer and Sonia Sotomayor dissented.
So Thomas and Roberts must be fuming and just waiting to take on Paxton, right? (And McConnell to for that matter. He was behind the Citizen's United suit, wasn't he?)
User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 19324
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by Jaymann »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:56 am I tried to sign up for Truth Social a while ago to see what kind of shit is on there. They require a phone number and don't accept a Google voice number. So no account for me.
Do they verify it? You could use the number for your local PETA.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by malchior »

Jaymann wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:53 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:56 am I tried to sign up for Truth Social a while ago to see what kind of shit is on there. They require a phone number and don't accept a Google voice number. So no account for me.
Do they verify it? You could use the number for your local PETA.
They verify it.
User avatar
geezer
Posts: 7551
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:52 pm
Location: Yeeha!

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by geezer »

stessier wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:21 am Could one of our Texans please go on Truth Social and post about all the accomplishments Biden has had and how ineffective the Republicans have been in stopping him? When the post gets taken down, you'll have a case to sue Truth. I think the law provide money for damages.
Iirc, I think Truth Social is too much of a failure to fall under the volume required to trigger this law.
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 26376
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by Unagi »

sorry

Enlarge Image
...I know you, little libertine...
... I know you're a calvinball
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by malchior »

Better home than the general Trump thread. This is the state of "rule of law" in 11 states.

User avatar
Daehawk
Posts: 63530
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:11 am

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by Daehawk »

I dont get the Trump draw..I see him as a walking turd of greed and stupidity. What do they see exactly that Im not? He is a snake oil salesman.
--------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82094
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by Isgrimnur »

Image
Spoiler:
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by LordMortis »

And we could have guessed who the first name on the list is

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000183 ... b798e20000

Paxton is really trying to unseat McConnell as the worst American in my lifetime.
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by malchior »

Play by play deconstruction of Cannon's calvinball

@Emptywheel lays out the timeline here in pretty clear terms. Judge Cannon is apparently abusing her power to protect Trump. There aren't too many other ways to parse this. She is making up law, rules, deadlines, and essentially just pouring mud all over the case. It explains why the DOJ moved to overturn her whole order in the 11th.
User avatar
Carpet_pissr
Posts: 19980
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:32 pm
Location: Columbia, SC

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by Carpet_pissr »

What is the play to remove a federal judge, if there even is one? SC? (Ha!)
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by LordMortis »

The irony being that I've heard nothing but "OMG Dems want to 'pack the courts''' since Kavenaugh was being considered. Packing the courts has never meant what it sounded like. The connotation may be nothing like denotation but this is what I've always heard when someone was really talking about tampering with Supreme Court.
User avatar
stessier
Posts: 29819
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:30 pm
Location: SC

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by stessier »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:56 am What is the play to remove a federal judge, if there even is one? SC? (Ha!)
Impeachment. But Mr Fed pointed out that for improper rulings, the corrective action is appeal - which is what is happening.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles__2019: 2000.00 miles
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41247
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by El Guapo »

There has to be some reform to fix the aspect of the case assignment system that allows litigants to borderline pick their judge by filing in certain towns within a federal district, right? Like how Trump's team wound up with Cannon. Presumably that's something that could be addressed by congressional action, although I also wonder whether this is something that courts can fix through their own rules (to the extent that they are inclined to).
Black Lives Matter.
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by malchior »

The case management aspect is important but that's only a partial fix. It'd certainly help but low quality, calvinball judges are still likely spread out all over the place.

Unfortunately even if it were in the courts power, that decision might live with Roberts. It feels like at present he might not want to act and give legitimacy to the idea that the politicization problem even exists. And the chance Congress fixes it? It has to be near zero.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41247
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:55 am The case management aspect is important but that's only a partial fix. It'd certainly help but low quality, calvinball judges are still likely spread out all over the place.

Unfortunately even if it were in the courts power, that decision might live with Roberts. It feels like at present he might not want to act and give legitimacy to the idea that the politicization problem even exists. And the chance Congress fixes it? It has to be near zero.
Yeah the problem of lunatic judges would still exist but we would be in a much, much better place if Trump and the conservative legal movement couldn't plan on which judges to get assigned to their crazy litigation. Sometimes they'll get lucky, but it's a totally different ballgame when they can plan around specific judges.
Black Lives Matter.
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by malchior »

El Guapo wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:58 am Sometimes they'll get lucky, but it's a totally different ballgame when they can plan around specific judges.
Yeah. "We" caught of a bit of a lucky break that they are only 50/50 on this. The first time the case happened to land with another judge because of a scheduling conflict and that judge pointed out the scheme. So there is a little chance still baked in but the entire notion that we see normalized venue shopping and judge selection happening is just another warning sign that our nation is very unhealthy.
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: It's all calvinball now

Post by malchior »

Post Reply