McNutt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:44 pm
Definitely too dark. I really hated that it was an obvious filter used to make it dark.
Spoiler:
I LOVED the line "as your protector." Boom.
Why did the Hand act like the queen's reaction was a good thing? To me she put huge ass targets on her sons' heads. The king doesn't look like he's going to live much longer, so the new queen is going to start thinning the heard.
Maybe I'm slow, but who was the body burning in the fire? Was it the guy whose throat Daemon slit?
Spoiler:
As Otto described it, it's not that the Queen's actions were good or helpful for their cause. It's that she showed fire and determination, and that she's not a pushover. Basically she showed that she had the will to fight, which is good in the long run, even if her actions there were rash and shortsighted.
I don't know who the body was. Point was just that it wasn't Laenor (though everyone on the show thinks that it was) allowing Laenor and Boy Toy (Cole?) to go off to Essos and live an anonymous gay life together. Apparently I'm slow as at first I didn't pick up that the guy in the rowboat with Cole was Laenor with his hair shaved off.
On your first point
Spoiler:
It was because she showed that she could be forceful...but more that she could show such anger towards someone who had been a childhood friend. Someone she'd always been reluctant to truly see as an enemy. Otto knows she now does, so he's happy.
As for your second item, I had no idea either who that was supposed to be in the boat! That changes my view somewhat on the character who initiated the action that led to that scene.
Guess next time I should turn the brightness up even higher.
Spoiler:
Yeah, at first I was expecting the other guy in the boat to murder Boy Toy. And like you I was thinking that it was quite a heel turn for Rhaenyra. But yeah...Laenor's off to live his happy gay life together.
Yeah, at first I was expecting the other guy in the boat to murder Boy Toy. And like you I was thinking that it was quite a heel turn for Rhaenyra. But yeah...Laenor's off to live his happy gay life together.
Spoiler:
It would be funny if he takes up Daemon's old job as resident dragonrider and they just swapped places.
while it's good that she can be ruthless and do what needs to be done, was that what needed to be done there? Everyone there was horrified.
Her protector even publicly called her out for what she was trying to do. Up until this point Rhaenyra seemed like she no longer was her friend, but was going to leave it at that. Now, because Alicent declared war on Rhaenyra, someone is going to have to die. It didn't need to be that way, but it's all out in the open now. The boys have been outed as bastards and Alicent and her sons have drawn their battle lines. They're going to need that extra dragon.
I'm aware there are going to be deceptions and cut through activities. I just don't see this one as a smart one for her or her sons. Don't get me wrong, it makes the show more exciting, I just don't get why her dad was praising her. She sealed her fate.
He wasn't praising the action, he was praising the reaction. He now knows she's capable of doing what is necessary when the inevitable occurs. Something he expressed grave doubts about directly to her in a decently lit scene after he was initially laid off as Hand.
McNutt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:59 am
I get that, but
Spoiler:
while it's good that she can be ruthless and do what needs to be done, was that what needed to be done there? Everyone there was horrified.
Her protector even publicly called her out for what she was trying to do. Up until this point Rhaenyra seemed like she no longer was her friend, but was going to leave it at that. Now, because Alicent declared war on Rhaenyra, someone is going to have to die. It didn't need to be that way, but it's all out in the open now. The boys have been outed as bastards and Alicent and her sons have drawn their battle lines. They're going to need that extra dragon.
Spoiler:
Well for one, again no one's saying that what Alicent did was a good idea. Otto reaffirms that, although he also notes that coming out ahead a dragon (one that was previously in Rhaenyra's de facto camp) was a big win.
He's just excited that he sees some fire and determination from her, which matters a lot when you are in a, you know, game of thrones.
Also, the boys haven't been outed as bastards. The accusation is out in the open (although it was 90% out there already), but the official realm policy is that Rhaenyra's boys are legitimate and that anyone who says otherwise is guilty of treason.
But yeah, the Hightowers aren't taking the Iron Throne without a fight. But that was pretty much true already.
Yeah, at first I was expecting the other guy in the boat to murder Boy Toy. And like you I was thinking that it was quite a heel turn for Rhaenyra. But yeah...Laenor's off to live his happy gay life together.
Spoiler:
It would be funny if he takes up Daemon's old job as resident dragonrider and they just swapped places.
Spoiler:
Except wouldn't that give away that Laenor isn't dead? In fact, wouldn't his dragon know he's not dead? If not, who is going to claim the dragon?
That sound of the spoon scraping over the can ribbing as you corral the last ravioli or two is the signal that a great treat is coming. It's the washboard solo in God's own
bluegrass band of comfort food. - LawBeefaroni
Yeah, at first I was expecting the other guy in the boat to murder Boy Toy. And like you I was thinking that it was quite a heel turn for Rhaenyra. But yeah...Laenor's off to live his happy gay life together.
Spoiler:
It would be funny if he takes up Daemon's old job as resident dragonrider and they just swapped places.
Spoiler:
Except wouldn't that give away that Laenor isn't dead? In fact, wouldn't his dragon know he's not dead? If not, who is going to claim the dragon?
The short answer is that it's unknown. In the book Fire & Blood it seems clear that Laenor is actually dead, which puts the show in unknown water. If Laenor's dragon follows him...yeah that would seem to give him away. If Laenor abandons his dragon and the dragon can't or doesn't follow him, then it's unclear what happens with the dragon. Presumably someone will try to mount and claim it...but will the dragon accept anyone else? Totally unknown at this point.
McNutt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:13 am
I'm aware there are going to be deceptions and cut through activities. I just don't see this one as a smart one for her or her sons. Don't get me wrong, it makes the show more exciting, I just don't get why her dad was praising her. She sealed her fate.
Spoiler:
It wasn't smart of her, I think we all agree on that. What I also think McNutt is saying is that it wasn't just not smart but pretty stupid. Rhaenyrra goes from someone with whom there is some animosity but not outright hatred. Now, Rhaenyrra is someone who sees the queen as a full on enemy. So much so that she's going to great lengths to ally with her uncle and is gearing up for war. She's the heir and marrying Daemon makes that claim even more solid. She's added two additional potential dragon riders and an additional dragon rider in Daemon and his two daughters. She's also has Lord Corlys on her side. Essentially, Rhanyrra has most of the cards and now knows that Alicent is an enemy that needs to be dealt with.
That sound of the spoon scraping over the can ribbing as you corral the last ravioli or two is the signal that a great treat is coming. It's the washboard solo in God's own
bluegrass band of comfort food. - LawBeefaroni
McNutt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:13 am
I'm aware there are going to be deceptions and cut through activities. I just don't see this one as a smart one for her or her sons. Don't get me wrong, it makes the show more exciting, I just don't get why her dad was praising her. She sealed her fate.
Spoiler:
It wasn't smart of her, I think we all agree on that. What I also think McNutt is saying is that it wasn't just not smart but pretty stupid. Rhaenyrra goes from someone with whom there is some animosity but not outright hatred. Now, Rhaenyrra is someone who sees the queen as a full on enemy. So much so that she's going to great lengths to ally with her uncle and is gearing up for war. She's the heir and marrying Daemon makes that claim even more solid. She's added two additional potential dragon riders and an additional dragon rider in Daemon and his two daughters. She's also has Lord Corlys on her side. Essentially, Rhanyrra has most of the cards and now knows that Alicent is an enemy that needs to be dealt with.
Spoiler:
I think Rhaenyra has seen Alicent as an enemy for awhile now. This puts things more out in the open but I don't think it changes things.
Also I don't think Rhaenyra's move was really well thought out strategy so much as a reflection of a desire to bone down with Daemon. Yeah, she gets access to Daemon's dragon, but that may have been gettable anyway through other means (Daemon has always liked her). On top of that this puts Corlys and the Valeryons back into play at least potentially. Rhaenyra notes that people may blame her for Laenor's death. And "people" include, you know, Corlys.
Corlys and the Valeryons don't seem to have much affection for the Hightowers either (and Corlys has generally gotten along well with Daemon), so I don't think that they're about to switch sides or anything, but at a minimum there's a much higher chance that the Valeryons are neutral in any struggle, and it makes their place in Rhaenyra's camp much more shaky.
Except wouldn't that give away that Laenor isn't dead? In fact, wouldn't his dragon know he's not dead? If not, who is going to claim the dragon?
Spoiler:
I expect they would know somebody controls the dragon, but not that it must be Laenor. Vhagar apparently also went feral and disappeared before he was claimed by Laena, so I guess it wouldn't be the first time that happened.
McNutt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:13 am
I'm aware there are going to be deceptions and cut through activities. I just don't see this one as a smart one for her or her sons. Don't get me wrong, it makes the show more exciting, I just don't get why her dad was praising her. She sealed her fate.
Spoiler:
It wasn't smart of her, I think we all agree on that. What I also think McNutt is saying is that it wasn't just not smart but pretty stupid. Rhaenyrra goes from someone with whom there is some animosity but not outright hatred. Now, Rhaenyrra is someone who sees the queen as a full on enemy. So much so that she's going to great lengths to ally with her uncle and is gearing up for war. She's the heir and marrying Daemon makes that claim even more solid. She's added two additional potential dragon riders and an additional dragon rider in Daemon and his two daughters. She's also has Lord Corlys on her side. Essentially, Rhanyrra has most of the cards and now knows that Alicent is an enemy that needs to be dealt with.
Spoiler:
I think Rhaenyra has seen Alicent as an enemy for awhile now. This puts things more out in the open but I don't think it changes things.
Also I don't think Rhaenyra's move was really well thought out strategy so much as a reflection of a desire to bone down with Daemon. Yeah, she gets access to Daemon's dragon, but that may have been gettable anyway through other means (Daemon has always liked her). On top of that this puts Corlys and the Valeryons back into play at least potentially. Rhaenyra notes that people may blame her for Laenor's death. And "people" include, you know, Corlys.
Corlys and the Valeryons don't seem to have much affection for the Hightowers either (and Corlys has generally gotten along well with Daemon), so I don't think that they're about to switch sides or anything, but at a minimum there's a much higher chance that the Valeryons are neutral in any struggle, and it makes their place in Rhaenyra's camp much more shaky.
Spoiler:
I don't think there's much chance of Corlys being neutral. His "grandkids" are all Rhaenyrra's now (and we know he doesn't care about some of them having questionable bloodlines) so I see little chance that he remains neutral. I'm not sure who the Hightowers have as allies other than one Strong. Do Corlys and Rhaena have dragons? It seems like at least one of them would since both of their kids had them.
That sound of the spoon scraping over the can ribbing as you corral the last ravioli or two is the signal that a great treat is coming. It's the washboard solo in God's own
bluegrass band of comfort food. - LawBeefaroni
McNutt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:13 am
I'm aware there are going to be deceptions and cut through activities. I just don't see this one as a smart one for her or her sons. Don't get me wrong, it makes the show more exciting, I just don't get why her dad was praising her. She sealed her fate.
Spoiler:
It wasn't smart of her, I think we all agree on that. What I also think McNutt is saying is that it wasn't just not smart but pretty stupid. Rhaenyrra goes from someone with whom there is some animosity but not outright hatred. Now, Rhaenyrra is someone who sees the queen as a full on enemy. So much so that she's going to great lengths to ally with her uncle and is gearing up for war. She's the heir and marrying Daemon makes that claim even more solid. She's added two additional potential dragon riders and an additional dragon rider in Daemon and his two daughters. She's also has Lord Corlys on her side. Essentially, Rhanyrra has most of the cards and now knows that Alicent is an enemy that needs to be dealt with.
Spoiler:
I think Rhaenyra has seen Alicent as an enemy for awhile now. This puts things more out in the open but I don't think it changes things.
Also I don't think Rhaenyra's move was really well thought out strategy so much as a reflection of a desire to bone down with Daemon. Yeah, she gets access to Daemon's dragon, but that may have been gettable anyway through other means (Daemon has always liked her). On top of that this puts Corlys and the Valeryons back into play at least potentially. Rhaenyra notes that people may blame her for Laenor's death. And "people" include, you know, Corlys.
Corlys and the Valeryons don't seem to have much affection for the Hightowers either (and Corlys has generally gotten along well with Daemon), so I don't think that they're about to switch sides or anything, but at a minimum there's a much higher chance that the Valeryons are neutral in any struggle, and it makes their place in Rhaenyra's camp much more shaky.
Spoiler:
I don't think there's much chance of Corlys being neutral. His "grandkids" are all Rhaenyrra's now (and we know he doesn't care about some of them having questionable bloodlines) so I see little chance that he remains neutral. I'm not sure who the Hightowers have as allies other than one Strong. Do Corlys and Rhaena have dragons? It seems like at least one of them would since both of their kids had them.
Spoiler:
I think Rhaena does but not Corlys. Not 100% sure.
But in terms of the Valeryons, Rhaena already proposed disinheriting Rhaenyra's kids from the succession for Driftmark, which (as Corlys notes) would be tantamount to declaring them bastards. If Corlys blamed Rhaenyra for Laenor's death, that could easily push him out of her camp. Alternatively, Corlys has a brother (the one who was pointedly talking about not thinning Valeryon blood at Laena's funeral). If Corlys dies before Viserys, not crazy that Corlys's brother could make a push to take Driftmark with Rhaena's consent, pushing the Valeryons into the Alicent camp in the process.
JCC wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:35 pm
Yeah the super invisible dark scenes did annoy me greatly. Having said that, the episode was fantastic. A welcome return after last week's clumsy, confusing jump forward in time. It's a great show.
Ah ha!!! I had to go back a page to find the talk about this, I thought I was the only one going crazy. At first I thought my TV had gone bad, and I have a pretty expensive one. Then I thought there was something wrong with my glasses, or maybe my eyes. Then I finally realized they were doing this on purpose and I just grumbled about it like an old man.
I have no problem with people complaining about it... I found it frustrating too. But I presume the intention was for these scenes to be obscured. It's like when characters speak a foreign language without any subtitles. But I don't understand why some people are taking it as a personal affront. "How dare they, I pay $9.99 a month for HBO Max so I can see what I'm watching!" But if you want to criticize it on artistic grounds, sure.
I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
If I have paid for a nice home theater experience and I can't see a damn thing, I am going to get a little upset about it. It takes me out of the moment when I have to start adjusting the lights and and the TV brightness because they wanted "none more black." It didn't even have to be at night!
Sudy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:21 pm
I have no problem with people complaining about it... I found it frustrating too. But I presume the intention was for these scenes to be obscured. It's like when characters speak a foreign language without any subtitles. But I don't understand why some people are taking it as a personal affront. "How dare they, I pay $9.99 a month for HBO Max so I can see what I'm watching!" But if you want to criticize it on artistic grounds, sure.
A) No one has advocated storming the offices of HBO in military gear.
B) At this point, most of our responses are primarily being driven by people telling us that we have no right to complain.
C) If your "artistic choice" results in a large number of people not being able to even see your work, you're missing the bigger picture. Also, this is House of the Dragons, not an art piece on the 1913 Armory Show in Paris.
D) Continually telling people they should get over it, it's their fault and to stop complaining about it is going to bite some folks in the ass later.
I wasn't referring to anyone here. According to a number of articles, some people are close to storming the offices of HBO in military gear. If you get to complain I get to complain about you complaining. If you want to complain about me complaining about you complaining that is also your right. What makes you the arbiter of art? If some art wasn't pompous, garish, or ill-conceived we wouldn't have good art.
I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
McNutt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:26 pm
If I have paid for a nice home theater experience and I can't see a damn thing, I am going to get a little upset about it. It takes me out of the moment when I have to start adjusting the lights and and the TV brightness because they wanted "none more black." It didn't even have to be at night!
If film and television only portrayed daytime and ideal lighting conditions it would be unrealistic and boring. But I get your frustration, I felt it too. I just tried to accept that I wasn't going to see everything that was happening in clear detail and tried to appreciate it for what it was.
I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
Sudy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:56 pm
I wasn't referring to anyone here. According to a number of articles, some people are close to storming the offices of HBO in military gear. If you get to complain I get to complain about you complaining. If you want to complain about me complaining about you complaining that is also your right. What makes you the arbiter of art? If some art wasn't pompous, garish, or ill-conceived we wouldn't have good art.
Then consider complaining about how dark this episode was an art form and stop being such an art hater.
You were complaining about my take before you'd even watched the episode.
I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
Darkness at the break of noon
Shadows even the silver spoon
The handmade blade, the child’s balloon
Eclipses both the sun and moon
To understand you know too soon
There is no sense in whinin'
I apologize, I was unaware of your lifelong crusade against the luminosity of George R. R. Martin properties.
I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
And I sincerely apologize for not being aware that you are Cristo the Lord of Lighting and that any claim that a show is too dark would wound you so deeply.
I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
The overly dark scene is even more silly given the backlash in the final season of GoT where the battle scenes were too dark. And those scenes were blindingly bright by comparison to the dark scenes this week.
Every show/movie needs to hire an arbiter of common sense to override some of these "creative decisions" to save these dopes from themselves.
"We aren't making a radio drama. It's TV. People want to be able to make out what's going on with their eyes. It's kind of why these televisions were invented. When you make a GoT audio/radio drama, you can light it as poorly as you want."
Next week they will lower the volume of the dialog in one scene so noone can hear what's being said. And, because it's a "creative decision" they will also disable closed captioning to protect their "artistic vision".
Black Lives Matter
"You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don't alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views." - The 4th Doctor
Huh. I had no problem with the scene (scenes?). And I am absurdly sensitive to anything related to image quality (ask any family member of mine...I'm...obsessed they might say).
Are you guys sure your TV's are not crushing the blacks (which would blur lots of detail in dark scenes)? Out of the box, MOST TV's, even really good ones, suck (compared to their potential after tweaking). Calibration is not as big of a thing these days now that rear projection HDTV's are gone, but there are plenty of ISF calibrators that will still take your money, I am sure.
I use the calibration settings from Rting for my television. If anything, I find it very odd you didn’t notice that it was artificially made much darker than it should have been. Are you sure your tv isn’t set to be overly saturated and you’re just used to a washed out display at this point?
A cinematographer weighed in to say we shouldn't be blaming the lighting.
I had posted an earlier article from vulture that covered the grading issue. I liked this take
Here are the options as I see them. First, maybe this was a legitimate and baffling mistake. Somehow, even after the widespread criticism of “The Long Night,” director Miguel Sapochnik simply did not think to check whether the day-to-night postproduction process would display correctly on a regular ol’ Samsung from Best Buy.
Second, it was pure sloppiness. The evidence for this is largely that no one seems to have minded that characters are obviously squinting into the sun and that little attention was paid to the fiery torches that appeared throughout the funeral scenes. They are on fire and yet … they do not glow? They cast no light and no shadows?
Of course I noticed the light color filter during ‘the wake’, but I don’t remember a scene where I was not able to see.
Also, FWIW, Rtings calibrations, as they emphasize themselves, are based on the specific model they received/bought, and can vary wildly from set to set (so use them at your own…”peril” ).
My set is an older model that came out JUST as HDR was becoming the norm. Sony then released a firmware update that added HDR to my set. So it's not Dolby Vision, that's for sure. But I've only had this kind of issue with a very, very small set of shows.
If there is any hint of light in the room, there are long stretches of the episode in which nothing is even visible beyond a few shapes. I went back and watched a few bits of the episode after dark and it was a LITTLE clearer. But it was still hard to make out much. I can only imagine that those saying it was perfectly fine have a higher pain threshold than myself and the others who found it annoying.
I'm watching it on HBO Max, so perhaps the compression used for streaming these things is a factor as well. Are you watching it on cable?
Good. You know where to send my award. And clean the damn thing this time. I don't want fudge fingerprints all over it again, damn it.
