It’s from the George Washington University Program on Extremism.
Isn't lumping left wing and anarchist together sort of overlooking what anarchists actually believe in?
LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 6:29 am
I do want to reclaim my sense of patriotism. I'm not sure what would do it, though. I may be too old and jaded to find it again.
I think this the best thing to do. The extremist right are claiming to be patriots, when in reality they're seditionist and traitors to democracy. They're wrapping themselves in the trappings of patriotism though, and it's amplifying their messages supporting autocracy and oppression while making the impressionable masses they're reaching out to blind to what's really happening. We need to reclaim those symbols at some point.
It’s from the George Washington University Program on Extremism.
Isn't lumping left wing and anarchist together sort of overlooking what anarchists actually believe in?
Good observation. Still a quick read through shows that even if you concede to lump them together - they have a table (Figure 1) that indicates about 15% of the incidents belonged to Anarchist Violent Extremism (AVE) and Environmental/Animal Extremism. Beyond a single abortion related incident and "other" which included Puerto Rican nationalists (about 5%). The vast majority of incidents were right-wing.
Still it's an interesting paper because it shows the drivers pushing some on the left toward extremism. Interestingly the paper out of necessity lensed left activity by often comparing it to established patterns on the right. For example, in "Trend 2: Increased foreign fghter travel, disruption of government activities, and fnancing by AVEs"
Spoiler:
Side note to readers of the other thread about metadata. I cut and paste text from the report and the text extracted like that! It dropped letters. The original says: "Trend 2: Increased foreign fighter travel, disruption of government activities, and financing by AVEs.
I won't dig into why but this is what I meant when I said formatting errors happens all the time in investigations (or when just citing things). Text is not always easy to move around between applications!
While cases of AVE engaging in these types of activities, typically associated with other DVE threats in the U.S., are few and far between, their growing frequency raises the potential that certain conditions could cause group-level radicalization. During the past few years, AVE actors utilized “playbooks” that appear to mirror the modi operandi of their counterparts in other extremist groups.
One could argue that elements of the left are organizing because they see what is happening on the right and feel the need to not only organize but pattern themselves off "success". In any case, left-wing violence is definitely out there. Animal rights activists have been a hot spot for radicalism for years for instance. Still the evidence we have still shows that the right is the hottest spot by far. If the political situation continues to deteriorate, we shouldn't expect the left to just sit around. However, they'll be far, far behind and lots of law enforcement apparatus leans or is hard right or infiltrated by white nationalists. So that'll be super fun.
stessier wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:12 am
It's not the Boy Scout code - it's the US Flag Code.
Yeah, I should have clarified - it's the US Flag Code but as a Boy Scout we followed it when camping. Many of the fathers were former military so it was all just part of the process.
And maybe that's what's happened over the last 30+ years - more people that don't have military experience (or were influenced by people that did) are flying flags. And without the "ceremony" included with everything associated with having them displayed it's just another thing to them.
Never really thought of it that way...
Politics aside, you can always count on most Americans to do whatever is most convenient.
Illuminating a flag at night or bringing it in from the rain is inconvenient. Thus, the norms must change.
stessier wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:12 am
It's not the Boy Scout code - it's the US Flag Code.
Yeah, I should have clarified - it's the US Flag Code but as a Boy Scout we followed it when camping. Many of the fathers were former military so it was all just part of the process.
And maybe that's what's happened over the last 30+ years - more people that don't have military experience (or were influenced by people that did) are flying flags. And without the "ceremony" included with everything associated with having them displayed it's just another thing to them.
Never really thought of it that way...
I was in Scouts and fly my flag at night without a light. Didn’t remember the light thing so I hope no one thinks I’m a scumbag
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
You didn't have flag ceremonies and a color guard where you learned about this stuff? I know everyone has different experiences in the Scouts, but I figured that was pretty standard. I guess not.
I know personally when I flew a flag I didn't think about rain or illumination. I wasn't in the Boy Scouts, I wasn't in the military, it was an American flag probably made in China and probably purchased at Walmart. Not for a single second did I ever think about studying the flag code to determine whether my Chinese-made Walmart flag was being properly displayed.
I think it's great that official flags in funerals and flying on government properties, etc. are given their due respect. I think it's incredibly unrealistic to expect that same level of detail for people just hanging it outside their house in the suburbs.
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 6:48 amSo what?! Again we got here because you claimed all militias with more than 4 people had informants. And while I can't prove that isn't true...it's a heck of a claim.
But you could greatly bolster your claim by providing some evidence that the US government has been routinely...or even occasionally...caught off guard by militia actions. You aren't going to do that though. In fact, we've clearly reached the stage of discussion where you start ignoring my direct questions. If past is precedent, you'll start with the personal insults next post, so....let's let's just call this a day.
Today is a day for celebrating, not playing chess with pigeons.
/. "She climbed backwards out her
\/ window into Outside Over There."
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 6:48 amSo what?! Again we got here because you claimed all militias with more than 4 people had informants. And while I can't prove that isn't true...it's a heck of a claim.
How would trhat But you could greatly bolster your claim by providing some evidence that the US government has been routinely...or even occasionally...caught off guard by militia actions. You aren't going to do that though.
Bolster my claim? Am I misreading something? You are the one claiming something. Even if I was interested in following this irrelevant thread, I still struggle to understand how this specific question would provide proof that every militia is riddled with informants? You somehow don't get that it is an outlandish claim and I'm just treating it with the appropriate skepticism.
In fact, we've clearly reached the stage of discussion where you start ignoring my direct questions.
Are you kidding? As you cut out all the responses that I specifically addressed.
If past is precedent, you'll start with the personal insults next post, so....let's let's just call this a day. Today is a day for celebrating, not playing chess with pigeons.
It seems like you are projecting here. I'll let my argument stand.
stimpy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 12:13 pm
I woke up late, so I missed the uprising.
Which side won, Confederacy or Union?
I need to know what color shirt to wear.
stimpy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 12:13 pm
I woke up late, so I missed the uprising.
Which side won, Confederacy or Union?
I need to know what color shirt to wear.
Why start wearing one now?
So the good guys know I'm on their side.
Plus, it's kind of cold outside today.
I have folks around me that fly the flag, you can *always* tell which ones are the garbage people flying the flag. Sometimes they make it easy, like they fly a Trump flag above the US flag. Other times it’s because they constructed a monument of a flag pole so you know just how patriotic (they think) they are. Or they are matching the tattered flags hanging off their pickup truck.
I will say that the two on my street follow the US flag code, and I at least respect them for that. They are lit at night, they fly alone, and they are usually taken in when it rains.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
I currently have a green light on my porch to honor veterans.
And I have an Ally flag in my window. Bu no US flags, and no politician signs. The Ally flag is a bold enough statement, in todays climate, thats enough to guess everything else you need to know.
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 10:45 am
You didn't have flag ceremonies and a color guard where you learned about this stuff? I know everyone has different experiences in the Scouts, but I figured that was pretty standard. I guess not.
My son is an Eagle Scout and I was heavily involved in scouting while he was a Cub Scout (Pack Leader and Committee Chair). We definitely had flag ceremonies and a color guard, so it’s not that I’m not generally familiar with this stuff. It’s just that my take-away from our Scouting experience was that you should always treat the flag with respect. Don’t let it touch the ground. Don’t let it get ratty. Dispose of it properly. With Scouts in general, I think we took away what we found to be valuable about the experience - big-picture things like honor and trust and service and self-discipline, but I’d be lying if I said a lot of the finer details left a lasting impression. I guess that pretty much sums up my take on strict adherence to the flag code as well. Definitely not going to win any awards on U.S. Flag Code Trivia night.
Just 'cause you feel it, doesn't mean it's there -- Radiohead
Do you believe me? Do you trust me? Do you like me? 😳
I think the reason it rubs me the wrong way is that the people (I see) that are adamant about flying the flag - giant ones in their yard, stickers on their cars, flags in the beds of their pickup trucks, etc... are also the least likely to actually treat a flag with respect. It's like jewelry to them - a watch or a necklace they're wearing to visibly demonstrate how patriotic they are.
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 10:45 am
You didn't have flag ceremonies and a color guard where you learned about this stuff? I know everyone has different experiences in the Scouts, but I figured that was pretty standard. I guess not.
Duh, I said that I didn’t remember, not that I wasn’t taught. And yes, we had lots of flag ceremonies, but not a lot involved putting out the flag at night. I still remember how to properly fold the flag, btw.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
I think the reason it rubs me the wrong way is that the people (I see) that are adamant about flying the flag - giant ones in their yard, stickers on their cars, flags in the beds of their pickup trucks, etc... are also the least likely to actually treat a flag with respect. It's like jewelry to them - a watch or a necklace they're wearing to visibly demonstrate how patriotic they are.
I'm not sure where the problem is in that. The flag is a symbol which means it means different things to different people. If that it what it means to them, then so be it. People with opposing views can try and convince them they should change their meaning, but one way isn't inherently better than the other.
Jaymann wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 3:23 pm
See that's the thing. If the wingnutz attack or try to control a bridge or a specific point of infrastructure, it gives the military a convenient target to crush them or at least round them up. Are some of them looking to be martyrs? Assuredly so. But how many want to actually give up their weekend redneck war games for the real thing.
Not unlike what happened in Canada in February, with the encampments and border bridge blockades. You had some who were self-professing themselves as 'citizen police' and deputizing, until their weapons were seized. Yeah, when sentiments run hot, groups can do a lot of damage.
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 5:45 pm
I just need to remind everyone I am 100% Walter from The Big Lebowski; there are rules. That's all I'll say and apologize for the thread derail.
It may not be Vietnam, but you ARE posting in a thread titled ‘civil War II’, soooo.
