Jaymann wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 5:05 pm
I had never seen the original Willow, so I checked it out. Was surprised to see it was a Val Kilmer feature.
Yeah, I just watched the movie last night for the first time as well.
It featured both Mr and (briefly) Mrs Kilmer, but more importantly Airk was played by the original Chuck Cunningham from Happy Days. It was nice of Richie to help out his older brother.
Okay, watched the second episode and it’s starting to grow on me. Although I could do without the queen’s daughter. She’s your standard Disney actress and character. Which means an inoffensive copy of every other young female character they’ve ever created. Drop her and just focus on Elora (I like the hidden power bit) and I’d be happier.
I do like the look of the evil characters too. They’re unique enough to stand out in a show based on a pretty shallow fantasy movie (I liked the movie, but you have to admit it isn’t exactly well written….the cast is what made it work).
By the way, am I missing something or is Disney’s inclusion of same sex couples the last few years almost strictly lesbian based? Seems like they think that’s the least controversial path to take.
YellowKing wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:27 pm
The more negative reviews I've seen have largely been from reviewers who have no nostalgia or particular appreciation for the original film. And I get it - Willow is not a *great* movie. It's a decent movie that a lot of people growing up in the 80s loved because it's part of our childhood/adolescence.
Yeah, that movie hit at a time when I would have watched/read the trashiest show, movie or book if it had anything approaching a smidgeon of fantasy. I couldn't get enough. I even read all (or at least most) of the Piers Anthony stuff, and I despise puns!
But a full on fantasy movie? Gah. Even though it gets 53% on RT, the show is apparently great (again, according to RT, I think it was low to mid 80's when I looked). Will definitely check it out, but I suspect the movie did not age well, so not sure if I will be able to re-watch that first to get me up to speed (if that's even necessary).
It’s hard to recommend the movie to an adult. I rewatched it a while ago and it was derivative as hell. When I was a teen, that wasn’t a big deal. But now? Oof.
But it’s charming. Val Kilmer makes a great hero. Warwick is always good. And it has some fun fights and character.
So far the show is just about the same tone and execution as the movie, which means it’s also derivative as hell. But it has some cool monsters, and it has Warwick. Sometimes that’s enough.
I’m not sure why it’s getting such great ratings on RT, to be honest. But I do notice that a lot of the reviews have a “but” in the middle. I suspect nostalgia is playing a large part in those positive reviews.
…which is fine. But coming off a well written story like that found in Andor makes it hard to accept this as its peer.
Just finally catching up and I really enjoyed it. Knowing that's Warwick's actual daughter playing Willow's daughter makes it that much better.
It definitely feels like it's...leaning into teen whatever (similar to how Shannara did on the MTV), though not nearly as bad. The fighting is definitely more old school 80s / 90s, though I guess it's probably better to say it's "Disney-esque" with lots of flash and low on the realism.
All that said, I don't care because good lord is it awesome to see Willow again. Young happy Willow, middle-aged and experimenting with facial hair Willow, and now "old man" but still earnest Willow.
If you told me 34 years ago I'd be seeing this world again, I'd never have believed it. I'm sorry for those that didn't experience the original when it was out. For me it was released at the perfect time and I actually have fonder memories of the movie than I ever did for anything Star Wars (heresy, I know).
Anyway, I will be the voice of adolescent exuberance; so far quite enjoyable.
I'd personally suggest watching the film first if you have the patience. I watched it a few weeks ago to refresh my for the series. No, it didn't age well (although still better than Ladyhawke or Hawk the Slayer!), but the series has a lot of references and call-backs that are especially fun if you've seen the movie.
You know, this show is growing on me. I think it’s because they know the movie was silly…and they just lean into that. They realize they can’t compete with Lord of the Rings and other fantasy shows with better pedigrees, so they’re going for goofy and comedic. And it’s kind of working for me.
Spoiler:
The troll administrator in the latest episode especially should not have worked. But the actor sold it so well I was chuckling at almost everything he said.
OMG I could not disagree more, hepcat. The tone and transitions are just terrible. I know Willow isn’t high fantasy, and leans into slapstick and cheese. But the modern phasing they carelessly slip into is just sloppy. It’s like they had no vision and tried to fix everything in post.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein "I don't stand by anything." - Trump “Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867 “It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
And yet I still chuckle at the show’s goofy approach. It’s like the old Hercules and Xena shows in many ways. But with a slightly higher budget….which they use for cheesy effects and some surprisingly good monster costumes/designs. As for the anachronistic phrasing (I’m assuming that’s what you meant), it should annoy me. But in light of everything else, it actually feels organic to what they’re going for.
I think I may also just be tired of the deadly seriousness of most fantasy shows, and I needed something that doesn’t take itself seriously. In truth, it may be because fantasy in general has always been hard for me to ever take too seriously. It’s also why I’ll probably go see the upcoming D&D movie….which is something that will probably piss off the fantasy genre lovers expecting the usual tropes.
Fantasy lovers who want a D&D movie don't care so much about the tropes, they just want a film that doesn't make D&D fans look like idiots.
As to Willow, I'm enjoying it (and I'm also tired of overly grounded, serious fantasy), but I still find the dialogue to be cringeably awful, and not in a good way.
“Willow” received relatively positive reviews when it initially debuted last fall, scoring 83 percent on Rotten Tomatoes. In his review for IndieWire, critic Steve Greene gave the show a “B-” rating, calling it a “messy fantasy story starter kit.” Greene wrote that “in visual, thematic, and spiritual ways, ‘Willow’ manages to carve out some room of its own that doesn’t feel connected to algorithmic genre expectations or the finer points of a plot from decades past.”
Can't say I'm surprised. Other than here I never saw anyone talking about it and figured it was DOA.
Yeah, I had serious doubts it would get a second season. While I enjoyed it, it was sometimes in spite of what I was watching. But I did want to see more of the world they were building. The monster design was actually quite fun.
My kids couldn't sit through a single episode. They loved Willow (the movie)
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General "No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton MYT
I've actually thought a lot about why it didn't click with me, and the best answer I've come up with is that, unlike the original, they didn't sell the setting. It didn't feel like the same world that the original Willow was in - or like any fantasy world, really. The dialog, the music, none of it really fit.
