Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

Post by jztemple2 »

This game was originally developed as Simple Planes 2 (I have the first game) but just recently was renamed as it focuses a lot on building rockets. It just recently left early access on Steam and is currently on sale for $12.99 USD but can be even cheaper if you have their first game. The most recent (and big) update added a career mode and tweaked some other stuff.

If asked to compare to KSP I'd say that the biggest thing you'll notice is that you don't have, for instance, X versions of a solid rocket booster. Instead, you place a fuel tank (which in the tutorial is going to be filled with solid fuel) and use arrows to lengthen and widen the tank to the dimensions you want. Same way with fins, nose cones, etc. This is similar to the first game which did the same with planes.

Also, although I haven't gotten to it yet, you can program your flight path using a very simple programming UI. So no MechJeb needed. I'll post more about that as I go along.



To give folks an idea of how the game is played I recorded my playthrough of the first career tutorial which is seven and a half minutes long.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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My next video. A new contract and a couple of attempts.
Juno New Origins | Contract to reach 30 km and blow up the rocket

This is a video of my second contract in Juno New Origins. I am tasked to take my original rocket and have it exceed an altitude of 30km above ground level and then blow it up. I fattened up my original rocket but with only one engine there wasn't enough thrust to even lift off! Adding two more engines gave it the needed thrust so I could achieve the contract.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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Juno New Origins | Land a rocket more than 30km away from Village

This is my next contract in the game. I am tasked to land (well, crash land) the rocket more than 30km from the Village, which is the launch site. On my first attempt I gave the rocket a bit too much inclination. I did better on the second attempt.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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Launch trailer :wink:

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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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Apparently I have this, key activated Nov 2021. It must have been a bundle of some sort, maybe Humble Choice. I guess I'll have to give it a try.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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coopasonic wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:50 pm Apparently I have this, key activated Nov 2021. It must have been a bundle of some sort, maybe Humble Choice. I guess I'll have to give it a try.
It is fun if you found KSP fun. It's not as complicated to fit pieces together. I'm enjoying getting my butt kicked in the campaign and then figuring out how to complete the contracts.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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For some reason that original video makes me want a model rocket builder...the stickers and engines and all that jazz and a flight launching community and such.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

Post by jztemple2 »

coopasonic wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:50 pm Apparently I have this, key activated Nov 2021. It must have been a bundle of some sort, maybe Humble Choice. I guess I'll have to give it a try.
Oh, do NOT start doing the Career Mode first. It can get frustrating trying to grind out enough money and tech points. The Sandbox mode has a couple of nice tutorials that walk you through the various activities like building a rocket and getting into orbit.

There is quite a lot of stuff to this game, it is much more like KSP than I imagined. It is still a simpler game, but there are some real physics in there.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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A look at the programming system used in the game, it's pretty cool.

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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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And this is from Scott Manley a couple of years ago, with the old name of the game. Note that some of his criticisms have been addressed since then, but the video does still give a good look at the game.

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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

Post by Rumpy »

That already looks much more intuitive than KSP. I always found that when it came to stages and deployment, that KSP was quite easy to mess up. And on top of that, the mods I felt made things even more confusing. Get away from technical terminology and you could have a more accessible game. Can't get anywhere if I don't know where to begin, IMHO.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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I've been working last night and this afternoon on the programming of the rocket that was demonstrated above. I've added more steps to deorbit the rocket and try for a soft touch down. I've run into some issues (even when I programmed for a living I sucked at not having errors the first few times :roll:). I'll post more once I get a break.

UPDATE: Also, those steps he showed in the video above for the programming are no longer totally correct since the game has changed. But I found that out eventually... :roll:
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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Juno: New Origins | My first vehicle to launch, attain orbit and land completely programmed

As the title says, I used a default rocket in the game and followed the instructions in the video linked below for the programming for the ascent to orbit. However, I decided to add a parachute and landing legs and put down the upper stage on dry land and that took a lot more time to program. However, almost every action and message you see in the video is written into the game using the Vizzy programming system. I did have to cheat at the end because I messed up and instead of deploying the parachute the program operated the solar panels, so I had to manually pop the chute.


And here are the screenshots of the actual program in the game. It is all one thread, except on the first screenshot where I have a tiny parallel thread put there just for demostration purposes.
Enlarge Image
Enlarge Image
Enlarge Image
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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Bought. Forum effect in place as i was reading about kerbal 2 today. Looking forward to playing once i get back from the ER qwith wife
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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The game suffers from an appalling lack of tutorials and documentation. If you've played KSP you'll probably be able to figure out a lot of it. However, I find myself deeply fascinated with Vizzy (the Visual Programming System) and since the last time I did programming professionally was back in the Carter administration I'm having to relearn a lot of stuff. Still, it's a lot of fun.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

Post by Isgrimnur »

There's a few of us 'professional' programmers around if you need advice.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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Isgrimnur wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:31 pm There's a few of us 'professional' programmers around if you need advice.
Thanks, I'll post questions when I hit them. There's a good Discord channel for Vizzy as well.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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Juno New Origins | Simple hover landing demonstrator

I have been playing around with the Vizzy Visual Programming System in the game and decided to build a test rocket that would lift off from the pad, then float down part way under a parachute then complete the decent with a throttling engine, actually more of a bang-bang approach. All steps are accomplished with the programing system.
My command program:
Enlarge Image

The small program that runs on the parachute part. Not really necessary but it was more of a demonstration.
Enlarge Image

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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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jztemple2 wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:10 am
coopasonic wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:50 pm Apparently I have this, key activated Nov 2021. It must have been a bundle of some sort, maybe Humble Choice. I guess I'll have to give it a try.
Oh, do NOT start doing the Career Mode first. It can get frustrating trying to grind out enough money and tech points. The Sandbox mode has a couple of nice tutorials that walk you through the various activities like building a rocket and getting into orbit.
I played a but, going straight into Career mode against your advice... and found integrated tutorials for a bunch of the missions. I'm not sure if you were playing before 1.0 or what, but there are pretty clear tutorials, up through orbit at least, in Career mode.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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coopasonic wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:01 pm
jztemple2 wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:10 am
coopasonic wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:50 pm Apparently I have this, key activated Nov 2021. It must have been a bundle of some sort, maybe Humble Choice. I guess I'll have to give it a try.
Oh, do NOT start doing the Career Mode first. It can get frustrating trying to grind out enough money and tech points. The Sandbox mode has a couple of nice tutorials that walk you through the various activities like building a rocket and getting into orbit.
I played a but, going straight into Career mode against your advice... and found integrated tutorials for a bunch of the missions. I'm not sure if you were playing before 1.0 or what, but there are pretty clear tutorials, up through orbit at least, in Career mode.
I'm playing 1.0 and I found the tutorials, but I did find myself doing a lot of grinding to get tech points. I had the same issue with KSP, unlocking the tech tree wasn't a lot of fun for me. Anyway I'm having a lot more fun with Vizzy in the sandbox, trying to figure out what I can (and can't) do with it. Right now I'm tinkering with making a Falcon 9-type of flyback booster, but it turns out that I can't have Vizzy running on two entities once they have moved beyond some range.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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And here's the result of several hours :shock: of fiddling with Vizzy to make something of a flyback booster. There is Vizzy code in the command pod (capsule) on top of the rocket that does the work till booster sep, then the code on the command disc on the top of the first stage takes over. Here's a screenie of that code:

Enlarge Image

I could have done a boatload of more coding to make a nice pretty landing, but I'm just not up for that.

And here's the actual flight

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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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jztemple2 wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:23 pm
coopasonic wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:01 pm
jztemple2 wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:10 am
coopasonic wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:50 pm Apparently I have this, key activated Nov 2021. It must have been a bundle of some sort, maybe Humble Choice. I guess I'll have to give it a try.
Oh, do NOT start doing the Career Mode first. It can get frustrating trying to grind out enough money and tech points. The Sandbox mode has a couple of nice tutorials that walk you through the various activities like building a rocket and getting into orbit.
I played a but, going straight into Career mode against your advice... and found integrated tutorials for a bunch of the missions. I'm not sure if you were playing before 1.0 or what, but there are pretty clear tutorials, up through orbit at least, in Career mode.
I'm playing 1.0 and I found the tutorials, but I did find myself doing a lot of grinding to get tech points. I had the same issue with KSP, unlocking the tech tree wasn't a lot of fun for me. Anyway I'm having a lot more fun with Vizzy in the sandbox, trying to figure out what I can (and can't) do with it. Right now I'm tinkering with making a Falcon 9-type of flyback booster, but it turns out that I can't have Vizzy running on two entities once they have moved beyond some range.
I am not good at sandbox stuff, I need the campaign for guidance and progression or I just get bored and walk away.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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Another new rocket (looks like an old rocket) but with new programming!
Juno: New Origins | Flight to orbit and re-entry with adjustable targets

This is a video of a flight with a pretty standard JNO rocket. The feature is that it is totally done by Vizzy programing that allows user inputs for apoapsis, periapsis and number of stages. Also the program looks for user input to start the countdown and also start the re-entry sequence. The Vizzy program I made uses a lot of separate threads (I call them subroutines, but whatever) which allows modularity when building other rockets.
Enlarge Image

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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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I will check out Vizzy at some point...

My main complaint at this point, having completed 34 contracts, is that there is no clear path for progression. I am getting the same orbit contracts over and over. I wonder if it may be blocked by the ground vehicle and plane contracts. On planes, I am a bit frustrated that there is no tutorial for them. I can build a rocket with wings, but it isn't very fuel efficient, making the longer missions pretty impossible. I tried electric motors with tiny wings as props and that doesn't seem effective.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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coopasonic wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:45 am On planes, I am a bit frustrated that there is no tutorial for them. I can build a rocket with wings, but it isn't very fuel efficient, making the longer missions pretty impossible. I tried electric motors with tiny wings as props and that doesn't seem effective.
I think there are jet engines, but I'd have to check.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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I'm playing career so I have very limited options early.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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coopasonic wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:45 am My main complaint at this point, having completed 34 contracts, is that there is no clear path for progression. I am getting the same orbit contracts over and over.
It turns out I just needed to another cubesat mission before they would give me the missions to interact with the moons. Just did a Luna flyby this morning and had enough delta-v to make it an orbit, then used the remaining fuel to scuttle the craft on the surface. After it was too late I realized I might have had enough fuel left to make it a landing. Oops. That mission paid $250 million (cost less than million) so I can fund a few more tries. :D
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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jztemple2 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:11 pm Another new rocket (looks like an old rocket) but with new programming!
Juno: New Origins | Flight to orbit and re-entry with adjustable targets

This is a video of a flight with a pretty standard JNO rocket. The feature is that it is totally done by Vizzy programing that allows user inputs for apoapsis, periapsis and number of stages. Also the program looks for user input to start the countdown and also start the re-entry sequence. The Vizzy program I made uses a lot of separate threads (I call them subroutines, but whatever) which allows modularity when building other rockets.
Enlarge Image

My initial thought on seeing the first few posts was "I don't have time for computer game based missions when I still have real ones with real deadlines." But then I saw the Vizzy code and my brain is thinking "that looks like fun."
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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Yeah I watched some Vizzy tutorial videos and the code is super easy to build and understand. I can't say I really understand the math piece, but the logic I got and as as long as I can steal the math I think I can do some interesting things with it.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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coopasonic wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:12 pm Yeah I watched some Vizzy tutorial videos and the code is super easy to build and understand. I can't say I really understand the math piece, but the logic I got and as as long as I can steal the math I think I can do some interesting things with it.
I've been studiously avoiding the math since it makes my brain hurt :roll: but programing the logic was a lot of fun. I'm now off playing Second Front so I don't know when I'll get back to Juno, or even if since KSP2 comes out this month in Early Access*

*Why do I always capitalize "Early Access"?
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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I forgot to mention, JNO has a Discord site (of course) and there is a dedicated vizzy channel. People there have been very helpful to me, and just reading some of the posts is mind-boggling :shock: . And folks nicely post screenshots of their programming for the more fancy math stuff.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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I've kind of avoided discord since I got locked out of my account when I changed phones and didn't have my authenticator one time codes saved (oops) and discord is the one place that won't let you have access to your account if you lose your authenticator. Lame reason and I can totally make another account but I don't want to!
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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jztemple2 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:01 pm
coopasonic wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:12 pm Yeah I watched some Vizzy tutorial videos and the code is super easy to build and understand. I can't say I really understand the math piece, but the logic I got and as as long as I can steal the math I think I can do some interesting things with it.
I've been studiously avoiding the math since it makes my brain hurt :roll: but programing the logic was a lot of fun. I'm now off playing Second Front so I don't know when I'll get back to Juno, or even if since KSP2 comes out this month in Early Access*

*Why do I always capitalize "Early Access"?
Oh right! KSP2 comes out in 3 weeks (Feb 24)! Sorry Juno, I'm gonna have to put you on hold.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

Post by Stefan Stirzaker »

Been cheating and using some of your scripts but for some reason, the ascent and estabb orbit triggers straight away when it's called, rather than waiting until orbit apoapsis > desiredApoapsis. i must be missing something but no idea.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

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Stefan Stirzaker wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:37 pm Been cheating and using some of your scripts but for some reason, the ascent and estabb orbit triggers straight away when it's called, rather than waiting until orbit apoapsis > desiredApoapsis. i must be missing something but no idea.
If you post a screenshot I might be able to give you a hand. Make sure it includes all your program as my version was running several threads at once.

Also, you can use the "Log text" function to do debugging.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

Post by Stefan Stirzaker »

Thanks, i worked it out. Like a dumbass, i type in 365 for 365km not 365000, working fine now lol
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

Post by jztemple2 »

Just as an example of the type of thinking that goes on over on the vizzy channel of Juno New Origins on Discord, here's someone's thoughts on staging:
Isn't it better to make your stage check procedure, not based on the fuel, but instead on the abrut change in thrust?
Like this you can stage lateral booster, while the main engine is still on.
Image
It's an interesting idea, especially as he mentions, with lateral engines.
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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

Post by jztemple2 »

And now I'm back to playing Juno! I've been working on my next rocket. This is a video of my test rocket that uses all Vizzy programming to wait for user input before starting countdown, then ascends, arcs over and fires its engine for a controlled soft landing.

Vizzy program:
Enlarge Image

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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

Post by jztemple2 »

Finally landed on Brigo, the moon of the home planet. Ugly, but safe!

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Re: Juno: New Origins - A simpler take on KSP?

Post by Stefan Stirzaker »

Nice. Ive been dreaming in vizzy lol
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