Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

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Scraper
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Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

Post by Scraper »

Wo Long came out last week. For anyone who hasn't followed the game it's by Team Ninja and it's essentially Nioh 3. It's out now on Series X, PS5 and PC. It's available for free on Gamepass.

This game is very much the spiritual successor to Nioh. It plays very similar, the game is not open world, instead it's broken up into individual levels. After each level you can choose to go and play optional missions or you can continue the main mission.

The Combat is a bit different than Nioh in that the game relies heavily on dodging attacks and then counter attacking when the enemy is opened up or stunned. In a way it plays very similar to Sekiro.

The first boss in the game is a real pain in the ass. It took me about 3 hours to beat him. After that though the game gets easier, while never being too easy.

The reviews are mostly in the 8/10 range. I would say I think that score is slightly high. It's definitely worth playing if you're into souls like games, but it's not as good as From Software's recent games (Elden Ring, Sekiro, Dark Souls 3). I would rank it below Sekiro in terms of gameplay, story, and even graphics. But if you enjoyed Nioh 1 and 2 like I did then you will definitely enjoy Wo Long. If you can beat the first boss that is, I suspect he will prevent many players from progressing in this game, which is a shame. He definitely needs nerfed.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

Post by stimpy »

Yep.
First boss is waaaay to tough.
I gave up and uninstalled.

I also hate having to run through the same enemies after dying, or resting or training.
Just a personal preference that in a non-open world game, once I kill something it should stay dead.
Forcing me to fight the same enemies over and over is just tiring.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

Post by GreenGoo »

Nioh and Nioh 2 were souls-likes. Certain game mechanics are inherent in those sorts of games. I didn't know Wo Long was related to Nioh, but now that I do, I assume it has all the same mechanics as those earlier titles.

Souls-likes are not for everyone. Before I adjusted to the realities of souls-likes, my difficulties with Nioh were legendary in terms of frustration.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

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Here are some tips for the first boss. Make sure your spirit level is at least 20 (The spirit level is the little circle with a number that rises when you beat enemies in a level and lowers if you die or they hit you with a red attack). You can raise your spirit level pretty fast at the last save marker by running back and defeating the enemies near it and repeating the process. This will also give you XP and raise your character level in process.

Once you're in the boss fight the biggest key is making sure you dodge his red attacks and then counter afterward. Once he's stunned use your power attack to take off about 25% of his health.

Phase 2 isn't that much different. Stay about medium range distance away and wait for him to perform a red attack. Dodge it successfully and counter. Once his health is half way down on stage 2 you can perform a summon attack. This will instantly end the fight.

The game does a terrible job of telling you to perform the summon. I literally had him down past half health 4 or 5 times and then died before I figured out I could summon. In order to summon you have to hit B and Y on Xbox, or O and Triangle on Playstation.

I promise once you get past the first level the game gets much better. I'm about 6 hours in now and the gameplay has really clicked with me.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

Post by Scraper »

The more I play this game the more I think the reviewers in the 8/10 range got it right. The combat mechanics in this game are fantastic after you get the hang of it. The variety of weapon choice combined with the fact that every build has a decent amount of spells at their disposal creates all kinds of strategies and play types. But better than that is the parry/dodge system in the game. Once you get it down the combat becomes so much more enjoyable and rewarding.

Add in the fact that you can play this game co-op with 2 other players which makes boss fights really fun. I beat a boss yesterday with 2 other guys playing co-op. I struggled with the boss solo and could not beat him. But when I added the two co-op guys we beat him. The fight took about 15 minutes and really did remind me of an MMO dungeon boss in that each player had their part to play in the fight. One guy tanked, the other guy attacked, and I stayed at range buffing the group and pelting the boss with spells.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

Post by coopasonic »

I started this last night (I have completed Nioh 1 & 2 both more than once) and I am... struggling. That first boss is brutal. I can do the deflect/counter some of the time, but am not able to hit it consistently. I did go back and fight the tiger thing a few times to get my morale (and level) up so I am ready for another try tonight. I ended up giving up on Sekiro because I was pretty sketchy at the parry timing there too. There is a reason I tend to go with big damage and dodges and this game doesn't really reward that in the same way that even Nioh 1&2 did.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

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coopasonic wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:05 pm I started this last night (I have completed Nioh 1 & 2 both more than once) and I am... struggling. That first boss is brutal. I can do the deflect/counter some of the time, but am not able to hit it consistently. I did go back and fight the tiger thing a few times to get my morale (and level) up so I am ready for another try tonight. I ended up giving up on Sekiro because I was pretty sketchy at the parry timing there too. There is a reason I tend to go with big damage and dodges and this game doesn't really reward that in the same way that even Nioh 1&2 did.
The key to deflecting is waiting until the boss is just about to hit you. If you deflect too early you'll miss and get hit, too late same thing. Get the timing down for his red attack deflection and you can beat him.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

Post by GreenGoo »

Yeah! Parry better, coop!
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

Post by coopasonic »

Dammit man.

The funny thing is the second tie I got to phase two I destroyed his arm, had him at half health and if I had remembered the summon I would already be done. Since then I lost the magic and just keeping missing the timing over and over. Like I was totally in the zone and now I can't find the damn zone again.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

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I got frustrated enough to go through the combat tutorial again and I figured out my problem.

I was using the dodge/counterattack quite effectively but was getting frustrated that my weapon kept switching, not realizing the dodge/counterattack (RB+B) was supposed to do that. I unequipped my second weapon so it wouldn't switch anymore... which meant the dodge/counterattack would no longer trigger. I thought I had lost my timing when really I had disabled the move I was trying to use.

Once I figured that out, the first boss went down in two more tries.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

Post by GreenGoo »

Hah. I recall (I think it was Nioh?) that had a skill on the skill tree to swap weapons. You start with one weapon and end with your second weapon. Some sort of weapon swap extra damage move. Damn, it's a fuzzy memory. Anyway, I recall it wasn't particularly easy to pull off.

Parrying in general in Nioh I found quite difficult, except for certain weapons/moves with wider parry windows.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

Post by coopasonic »

Yeah Nioh had a bunch of skills that had stance changes that gave extra damage or some other benefit.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

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coopasonic wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:29 am Yeah Nioh had a bunch of skills that had stance changes that gave extra damage or some other benefit.
Definitely stance changes, but weren't those separate from the weapon swap skills (although mechanically similar to pull off with controller, I think)? It's been a long time.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

Post by coopasonic »

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:49 am
coopasonic wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:29 am Yeah Nioh had a bunch of skills that had stance changes that gave extra damage or some other benefit.
Definitely stance changes, but weren't those separate from the weapon swap skills (although mechanically similar to pull off with controller, I think)? It's been a long time.
I don't remember weapon swap stuff, but I was never interested in anything but my big hammer so I could have easily ignored anything like that.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

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I don't use the rb attack combos at all so i usually dont have the weapon switching problem. For the most part those combos arent that great anyway. I juat use ny heavy attack when they're stunned and that does the job.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

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coopasonic wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:15 pm I don't remember weapon swap stuff, but I was never interested in anything but my big hammer so I could have easily ignored anything like that.
Yeah, I took a quick google search and didn't find anything definitive. I believe it might be called a "flash attack" and it might be executed with a ki pulse, but I can't be sure.

Google only cares about Nioh 2 now so I'm not sure if the same skill exists in 2, as I haven't played it.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

Post by coopasonic »

I got through most of the 4th area (took down Lu Bu, yay) then my son said he wanted to play... I am playing through gamepass and there is no crossplay between gamepass for pc and steam so I ended up buying two copies because I want to keep my library consolidated on steam. So now I am restarting. The internet said I could copy the dsave over and rename it but it hasn't worked for me, so I started over. Good news is I took the first boss down in one try. Yay! :) Laos, the gamepass version didn't give me the Baihu armor you get for buying early (by Mar 16), which is great since it is 4 stars and free to upgrade. We've played a bit of co-op and it seems to handle it pretty well, similar to Nioh 2.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

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I'm getting near the end now and I definitely like Wo-Long better than Nioh 2. While the mission and sub mission structure is still the same they have streamlined it in Wo Long. In Nioh 1 and 2 it felt like the sub missions were just tacked on rehashes of the main missions designed to make the game longer. In Wo Long the sub missions are much more condensed and usually have clear goals. Many of them can be completed in less than 5 minutes, only a handful are redesigned reruns of the main mission levels. In short they don't feel like tacked on filler work to make the game seem longer. A lot of them are actually really worth doing as they give you new spirit animals to summon.

Probably my biggest complaint about the game at this point is that it very much looks like a last gen game. I doubt there is much graphical difference between the Series X/PS5 versions and the One/PS4 versions. Some of the textures and shadows in this game look 10+ years old.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

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I beat the game last night I was around level 105. The final boss was challenging and you can't summon in any NPC help so that made it even more challenging than other bosses. Overall though I think the final boss was a good way to finish the game. He used a lot of attacks that other bosses used, so in a way he was the ultimate boss in the game.

I still think this game is better than Nioh 1 and 2. The smoothness of combat combined with the magic system is a big upgrade over Nioh and the sub missions were much better than the Niohs.

The story was still a bit rubbish in that it was pretty hard to follow since there where so many characters and they all seemed fairly similar. Also, the load times on the Series X were way too long at times. The game was obviously built on a last gen engine and they didn't do much to upgrade it for faster hard drives or even more graphical horse power.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

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Finished the last boss this morning. I was a bit over-leveled since I have also been playing co-op with my son but that didn't make it an easy fight.

I'm not sure how to compare it to Nioh, they are very similar but different enough that I am not sure which I would call better. I like that you don't have to worry about the level of gear in Wo Long, but I found the aesthetic in Nioh to be better for me, also kodama > marker flags! Toward the end I was skipping cutscenes as they mostly made no sense to me and I was getting all the characters confused anyway., something I didn't do in Nioh.

Anyway it really is just Nioh 3 with a bigger focus on deflection/parry than those games ever had. The bosses, armor, weapons and missions are practically interchangeable.
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Re: Wo Long spiritual successor to Nioh

Post by GreenGoo »

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:27 pm
coopasonic wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:15 pm I don't remember weapon swap stuff, but I was never interested in anything but my big hammer so I could have easily ignored anything like that.
Yeah, I took a quick google search and didn't find anything definitive. I believe it might be called a "flash attack" and it might be executed with a ki pulse, but I can't be sure.

Google only cares about Nioh 2 now so I'm not sure if the same skill exists in 2, as I haven't played it.
Started playing Nioh again, on the PS5. This move is called a "flash attack" and occurs during a ki pulse and weapon switch, if you picked the skill. Works with all weapons.

The game can totally be played with a single weapon and just 1 button, but the design is actually incredibly sophisticated and some gamers can make the character absolutely dance in combat that I'm sure the average player would be in awe of (I am) if they even understood what was happening.

Seriously, it's possibly better than a fighting game in all the tricks and moves and positional damage that can be achieved, all while maintaining your Ki.
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