The Trump Trial Tribulations Thread

[El Guapo]

[Smoove_B]

34 Counts of falsifying business records (a lot will be 'overkill' on the details, but still)

[Unagi]

[malchior]

It sounds like it could be a whole lot more than just "hush payments" which would be pretty great. Perhaps it pulls in some of the Pomerantz case?

[malchior]

Lindsey Graham is having a normal one.

[Smoove_B]

I really want to believe we're going to see how people react when they realize they're potentially no longer above the law. I mean, so much still needs to happen, but even just this (I'd imagine) has more than a few nervous.

[Blackhawk]

So just to be clear, the viable 2024 GOP contenders now are the guy getting indicted for porn star hush money payments, and this guy. Note the casually normalized anti-Semitism of him repeatedly saying "Soros-backed".

I could absolutely see DeSantis offering Trump sanctuary in Florida in exchange for dropping out of the race and backing his play.

Coming in 2029: Seal Team Six: The Raid on Florida.

[malchior]

[El Guapo]

It sounds like it could be a whole lot more than just "hush payments" which would be pretty great. Perhaps it pulls in some of the Pomerantz case?

Yeah I'm seeing reporting that the indictment includes business fraud charges, which does sound like the Pomerantz case. Hasn't been a lot of reporting on that before...but I'm wondering whether the state AG basically had a completed case against Trump just one that Bragg had to bring, so the reporting was focused on the hush money payments because that was the only part that Bragg's office was taking the lead on.

I guess we'll see tomorrow.

[malchior]

I'm hearing we might not learn much more before Tuesday. Still I'd be more than happy to hear they had a bigger case that'd at least potentially lower the volume on the 'this criming wasn't serious enough criming' chorus.

[El Guapo]

I'm hearing we might not learn much more before Tuesday. Still I'd be more than happy to hear they had a bigger case that'd at least potentially lower the volume on the 'this criming wasn't serious enough criming' chorus.

Also what's semi-amusing is that since everyone has been expecting it to "just" be campaign violations related to paying hush money to a porn star, if it's anything more than that then Very Serious media people will perceive it to be worse / more serious than if expectations had been set higher.

[Pyperkub]

Yeah, it sounds like it's a total of 34 charges, not just a couple. It could be worse for Trump than just incompetence at arranging a payoff (he should have used super pac funds, like everyone else for their corrupt dealings).

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

[malchior]

This dives into deep speculation but I'm preparing myself to be super annoyed that a lot of this *is* Pomerantz's case delayed a year unnecessarily.

[El Guapo]

Yeah, it sounds like it's a total of 34 charges, not just a couple. It could be worse for Trump than just incompetence at arranging a payoff (he should have used super pac funds, like everyone else for their corrupt dealings).

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

# of charges can be misleading, though. Like theoretically it could be that Trump falsified 34 distinct documents related to the porn star hush money payment.

[gilraen]

It's not just Stormy Daniels. There's also Karen McDougal (remember her?)

[Zaxxon]

Josh Barro with a reasonable piece on why the 'this is only going to help Trump' folks are maybe not being entirely rational.

I think people have been watching Trump’s primary polling numbers tick back up in recent weeks and have concluded that the indictment chatter was good for his political fortunes; therefore, actually being indicted must be even better for him, because it ensures way more news coverage of his alleged persecution. But I think that’s a wrong inference to draw for a few reasons.

... (read the piece for the full list of reasons!)

Third, we have not yet actually seen the text of the indictment. Politically, Trump is in the best possible phase for the indictment — he can attack the prosecutor based on his left-wing political alignment without having to actually discuss what’s in it. Maybe when we see the indictment, we’ll learn that it contains a more compelling legal theory than has been possible to surmise from the outside news coverage; maybe we won’t. Either way, it is sure to be full of embarrassing facts — note DeSantis pointing out that he’s personally unfamiliar with the legal difficulties associated with paying off a pornstar.

Fourth, mounting a legal defense can hamper a political career in certain practical ways. Most obviously, Trump could be sent to prison. Even if the legal theory of the indictment is a stretch, Trump and his allies are right to point out that he will face a very hostile jury pool in Manhattan that might be prepared to stretch. Even before there is a verdict, he will have to devote time and energy to his legal defense, and he will face trade-offs between his PR need to discuss (or campaign on) the charges in public and his legal needs as a defendant, which generally entail shutting up.

...

The way Trump’s legal troubles could help him were already baked in — he was already able to say the Deep State was out to get him, and voters believed him and they cared. The indictment surely wins him more sympathy from Republican voters, but are those voters who will surely say this makes them more likely to back Trump again actually expressing greater likelihood, rather than just their solidarity?

[Octavious]

There's zero chance this all gets sorted before the next election. Appeal, stall, appeal, stall we'll all be dead before this case is ever resolved.

[coopasonic]

we'll all be dead before this case is ever resolved.

Maybe not all of us, but the defendant may very well be.

[Isgrimnur]

One can hope.

[Smoove_B]

I guess I'm a little surprised that Mike Pence would say this

Pence called the indictment an example of the "criminalization of politics."

"The unprecedented indictment of a former president of the United States on a campaign finance issue is an outrage," he said. "Nothing more than a political prosecution."

Pence said Americans will see through this indictment and that it gives the country an "awful" look internationally.

Never really saw his an someone to jump to the front of the fray and visibly speak out. He strikes me more as someone that would be creeping around behind the scenes and fomenting chaos.

[gilraen]

I guess I'm a little surprised that Mike Pence would say this

Pence called the indictment an example of the "criminalization of politics."

"The unprecedented indictment of a former president of the United States on a campaign finance issue is an outrage," he said. "Nothing more than a political prosecution."

Pence said Americans will see through this indictment and that it gives the country an "awful" look internationally.

Never really saw his an someone to jump to the front of the fray and visibly speak out. He strikes me more as someone that would be creeping around behind the scenes and fomenting chaos.

I'm sure his people told him he absolutely has to speak out publicly, otherwise it would look like a silent approval of the indictment, and his base wouldn't have that.

[Isgrimnur]

Apparently he's posturing for presidential campaign season.

Pence visits Iowa amid looming decision about 2024 bid

[Octavious]

Trumps solid base will never vote for Pence since he didn't throw out the election. Is he really that delusional that he has any chance or does he just have nothing better to do? I guess it could be both.

[El Guapo]

Trumps solid base will never vote for Pence since he didn't throw out the election. Is he really that delusional that he has any chance or does he just have nothing better to do? I guess it could be both.

He's someone who would happily let the country burn for a 1% chance of him becoming president some day. And beyond that, almost everyone in the GOP is busy planning for a day when Trump is gone while actively opposing any efforts to help him be gone.

[malchior]

It's a game of musicial politicos. They are all trying to stay in the game just in case Trump stops turning the monkey grinder.

[El Guapo]

It's a game of musicial politicos. They are all trying to stay in the game just in case Trump stops turning the monkey grinder.

Basically they're all vying to be Augustus Caesar.

[Isgrimnur]

monkey grinder.

Street organ, played by an organ grinder.

[malchior]

monkey grinder.

Street organ, played by an organ grinder.

True! FWIW I had in mind a more "esoteric" reference.

[Isgrimnur]

monkey grinder.

Street organ, played by an organ grinder.

True! FWIW I had in mind a more "esoteric" reference.

Ah.

[malchior]

I only wish this part was true!

Deceptively eloquent in both manner and speech, these loathsome creatures actually possess little intelligence, and suffer an illiteracy rate of 103%. This stupidity is, in fact, their Achilles' Heel. By tricking the creature into thinking it is receiving a gift, one could actually give it a one-way portal to the Planes of TransInfinite Splendor, banishing it forever.

[Grifman]

Jenna Ellis giving good legal advice as always:

[Zaxxon]

I just love that extradition requests between states are being floated by the right as if that's a thing. I mean, it's right there in the constitution that harboring folks charged with a crime in another state ain't a thing.

Although I guess they can have him if we can nuke the 2nd amendment along with this piece.

[Jaymann]

Yes, do that! It could escalate a relatively minor crime into a Waco style confrontation.

[Blackhawk]

[Trump] will face trade-offs between his PR need to discuss (or campaign on) the charges in public and his legal needs as a defendant, which generally entail shutting up.

This thought brings me so, so much satisfaction. In fact, it reminds me of a classic scene in a really cheesy movie...

Spoiler:

[naednek]

It's not just Stormy Daniels. There's also Karen McDougal (remember her?)

How could you not? Oh sorry I was living my late high school years

[Scoop20906]

In Pence's dream world Trump gets in enough legal trouble the he turns to Pence for help and throws his base behind him in a deal that once Pence takes office he pardons all of his federal crimes and puts the screws to the State DA's won't playball. Something like that I think.

[Daehawk]

Nuke FloriDUH. ..except for any OOrs there and NASA.

[Blackhawk]

Nuke FloriDUH. ..except for any OOrs there and NASA.

And the massive number of people who aren't behind Trump DeSantis, but can't leave for various reasons. And the kids who have no say.

You're going to need some very precise nukes.

[Jaymann]

In Pence's dream world Trump gets in enough legal trouble the he turns to Pence for help and throws his base behind him in a deal that once Pence takes office he pardons all of his federal crimes and puts the screws to the State DA's won't playball. Something like that I think.

Even in that scenario I invoke Trent Steel.

No Chance NO CHANCE

[Smoove_B]

This kinda feels like big news

Cy Vance tells @jrpsaki the SDNY under Barr told the Manhattan DA to STAND DOWN on the hush money investigation.