2024 Fundraising - $456 / $2000 CDN for the year, June/July Renewal. Paypal Donation Link US dollars

Moving abroad

Everything else!

Moderators: Bakhtosh, EvilHomer3k

Post Reply
User avatar
gbasden
Posts: 7697
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:57 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Moving abroad

Post by gbasden »

I'm thinking about the possibility of moving to Europe, most likely Spain. Thankfully I can still work remotely. I've been studying up, and I'm probably going to look at a golden visa as selling our house would let us pay cash for one that qualifies. I'm still entirely ignorant on all of the details - does anyone have practical experience with this? I've joined some Facebook groups and have been watching youtube videos, but it would be awesome to get some better information.

Thanks!
Glenn
User avatar
em2nought
Posts: 5457
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:48 am

Re: Moving abroad

Post by em2nought »

I've been thinking to do Southeast Asia, and watching many videos. The time to do it might be now. Just recently I'm getting the feeling that it's going to become harder to do in the future. Thailand just put the price up significantly on their elite retirement visa, and it looks like they might be adding retired expats to their tax rolls too. Paraguay had a great system where all you had to do was put $5000 in one of their banks, but that just went away. Spain, Portugal, or Greece wouldn't be bad choices, but I haven't really looked at them. The main reasons I like Southeast Asia is they quasi exist on the gold standard, and they're agricultural oriented. If Walmart here suddenly didn't have food on the shelves it would be a problem, that can't really happen over there at least for now.
Israel: Essentially "The Alamo" 24/7, 365 since 1947
User avatar
Anonymous Bosch
Posts: 10537
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:09 pm
Location: Northern California [originally from the UK]

Re: Moving abroad

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

gbasden wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:43 pm I'm thinking about the possibility of moving to Europe, most likely Spain. Thankfully I can still work remotely. I've been studying up, and I'm probably going to look at a golden visa as selling our house would let us pay cash for one that qualifies. I'm still entirely ignorant on all of the details - does anyone have practical experience with this? I've joined some Facebook groups and have been watching youtube videos, but it would be awesome to get some better information.

Thanks!
Glenn
I did the reverse, emigrating from Europe to the U.S. But broadly speaking, gird your loins for Kafkaesque red-tape and bureaucracy.

To that end, if you're serious, be prepared to spend prodigiously to hire reliable expertise on both the emigration process itself, and definitely qualified tax professionals to help navigate tax implication perils and pitfalls, e.g. patrimonial AKA wealth tax, capital gains, inheritance and gift tax, double taxation from assets in multiple countries etc. Given his background, I suspect Zarathud could likely provide you with some useful insight on hiring suitable tax professionals for your particular situation, so it may behoove you to send him a PM if he hasn't read this particular thread.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
User avatar
em2nought
Posts: 5457
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:48 am

Re: Moving abroad

Post by em2nought »

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:58 pm
To that end, if you're serious, be prepared to spend prodigiously to hire reliable expertise on both the emigration process itself, and definitely qualified tax professionals to help navigate tax implication perils and pitfalls, e.g. patrimonial AKA wealth tax, capital gains, inheritance and gift tax, double taxation from assets in multiple countries etc.
I totally agree with this statement. Even though I have Thai friends I still plan to get help from actual professionals. If it's even Thailand where I land, they have so many hoops to jump and it looks like they're adding more. I may go with Cambodia instead, and just visit Thailand. Cambodia seems to be the easiest to deal with in Southeast Asia. Maybe it would be better for me not to be someplace, Thailand, where I like the food sooooo much anyway. :lol:

You can probably find videos from some of those professionals on youtube also.
Israel: Essentially "The Alamo" 24/7, 365 since 1947
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42444
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: Moving abroad

Post by GreenGoo »

gbasden wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:43 pm I'm thinking about the possibility of moving to Europe, most likely Spain. Thankfully I can still work remotely. I've been studying up, and I'm probably going to look at a golden visa as selling our house would let us pay cash for one that qualifies. I'm still entirely ignorant on all of the details - does anyone have practical experience with this? I've joined some Facebook groups and have been watching youtube videos, but it would be awesome to get some better information.

Thanks!
Glenn
I actually started looking into this as I might end up retiring to Europe somewhere, and since I wfh 100% now. The question was seriously considered by higher ups, which I appreciated, but in the end the answer was no due to a whole host of understandable reasons. Maybe if I worked for external affairs...

Best of luck to you. Very interesting idea and I hope it works out for you.
User avatar
gbasden
Posts: 7697
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:57 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Moving abroad

Post by gbasden »

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:58 pm
gbasden wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:43 pm I'm thinking about the possibility of moving to Europe, most likely Spain. Thankfully I can still work remotely. I've been studying up, and I'm probably going to look at a golden visa as selling our house would let us pay cash for one that qualifies. I'm still entirely ignorant on all of the details - does anyone have practical experience with this? I've joined some Facebook groups and have been watching youtube videos, but it would be awesome to get some better information.

Thanks!
Glenn
I did the reverse, emigrating from Europe to the U.S. But broadly speaking, gird your loins for Kafkaesque red-tape and bureaucracy.

To that end, if you're serious, be prepared to spend prodigiously to hire reliable expertise on both the emigration process itself, and definitely qualified tax professionals to help navigate tax implication perils and pitfalls, e.g. patrimonial AKA wealth tax, capital gains, inheritance and gift tax, double taxation from assets in multiple countries etc. Given his background, I suspect Zarathud could likely provide you with some useful insight on hiring suitable tax professionals for your particular situation, so it may behoove you to send him a PM if he hasn't read this particular thread.
Thank you! That is excellent advice!
User avatar
Hamlet3145
Posts: 1535
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Moving abroad

Post by Hamlet3145 »

gbasden wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:43 pm I've been studying up, and I'm probably going to look at a golden visa as selling our house would let us pay cash for one that qualifies.
Thanks!
Glenn
As a remote worker rappidly approaching 50 (an age when a number of "retirement" visas open up), this is a topic I've been seriously looking into for, well, years.

Re: Portugal, I have a grad school friend who has done it and seems quite happy. Be aware, though, that the "buying a house" method to the Golden Visa may no longer work as of last month (in fact, I'm pretty sure it's gone :( ). My understanding is that the program was so popular that it was causing problems with driving up costs for locals and they are trying to cut back on how many of the visas are allowed. More about this here: https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/04 ... -heres-why

Myself, I'm looking quite closely at Thailand as I've spent a lot of time there and love it. In fact, I'll be there in two weeks for the rest of the winter, thank god. And I know about the tax thing, but I really don't think its going to be a big deal for the vast majority of foreigners (who come from tax treaty countries) who live, or want to live, there.
User avatar
Alefroth
Posts: 8619
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Bellingham WA

Re: Moving abroad

Post by Alefroth »

Don't remember if there was anything Spain specific, but there is some discussion here-

viewtopic.php?p=2760574#p2760574
User avatar
em2nought
Posts: 5457
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:48 am

Re: Moving abroad

Post by em2nought »

Hamlet3145 wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 2:53 pm
Myself, I'm looking quite closely at Thailand as I've spent a lot of time there and love it. In fact, I'll be there in two weeks for the rest of the winter, thank god. And I know about the tax thing, but I really don't think its going to be a big deal for the vast majority of foreigners (who come from tax treaty countries) who live, or want to live, there.
I hope you're right about the tax thing. You might want to move some money there before Jan 1st just to be safe. I'm trying to decide if I want to get there before January to open a bank account with the 800,000 baht for the retirement visa. I really would like to try living in a new efficiency condo right beside the purple line on the outskirts of Bangkok.

I've retreated a bit on the idea of South America for part of the year as I feel it's become a bit more dangerous in the last year or two.
Israel: Essentially "The Alamo" 24/7, 365 since 1947
User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 44298
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: Moving abroad

Post by Blackhawk »

I can't read the thread title without the Dangerfield in my mind saying, "Easy! Just leave her stuff on the porch!"
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
User avatar
Carpet_pissr
Posts: 20138
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:32 pm
Location: Columbia, SC

Re: Moving abroad

Post by Carpet_pissr »

gbasden wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:43 pm I'm thinking about the possibility of moving to Europe, most likely Spain. Thankfully I can still work remotely. I've been studying up, and I'm probably going to look at a golden visa as selling our house would let us pay cash for one that qualifies. I'm still entirely ignorant on all of the details - does anyone have practical experience with this? I've joined some Facebook groups and have been watching youtube videos, but it would be awesome to get some better information.

Thanks!
Glenn
Any particular reason for Spain over other countries? If you don't speak Spanish, I would recommend Portugal instead since their level of English in general in much higher than in Spain. Also, they are much more friendly to Americans in general, in my experience. Not to mention the cost of living differences.

Though with the massive tourism boom to Portugal in the past 10 years, the price difference might be less than it used to be.

I love Spain, don't get me wrong. Had some amazing times there, in many different cities during the 12 or so years I went there for work, but they can be a bit like the French with their attitudes towards Americans. You could definitely get by if you don't know Spanish (and pretty well, too), but I wouldn't recommend it (and of course, if you do know Spanish, makes total sense, and ignore this whole post!).
User avatar
gbasden
Posts: 7697
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:57 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Moving abroad

Post by gbasden »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:58 pm
gbasden wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:43 pm I'm thinking about the possibility of moving to Europe, most likely Spain. Thankfully I can still work remotely. I've been studying up, and I'm probably going to look at a golden visa as selling our house would let us pay cash for one that qualifies. I'm still entirely ignorant on all of the details - does anyone have practical experience with this? I've joined some Facebook groups and have been watching youtube videos, but it would be awesome to get some better information.

Thanks!
Glenn
Any particular reason for Spain over other countries? If you don't speak Spanish, I would recommend Portugal instead since their level of English in general in much higher than in Spain. Also, they are much more friendly to Americans in general, in my experience. Not to mention the cost of living differences.

Though with the massive tourism boom to Portugal in the past 10 years, the price difference might be less than it used to be.

I love Spain, don't get me wrong. Had some amazing times there, in many different cities during the 12 or so years I went there for work, but they can be a bit like the French with their attitudes towards Americans. You could definitely get by if you don't know Spanish (and pretty well, too), but I wouldn't recommend it (and of course, if you do know Spanish, makes total sense, and ignore this whole post!).
At least from everything I'm seeing right now, the golden visa for Portugal is a lot harder to get, for one. You have to buy specific kind of properties in specific opportunity zones and there have been a lot of people complaining about the process. The other reason is that we/I kind of fell in love with Galicia and I love the cooler, greener weather. I am working on learning Spanish right now - I know that's going to be a huge challenge. I totally appreciate your knowledge and input!
User avatar
gbasden
Posts: 7697
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:57 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Moving abroad

Post by gbasden »

Alefroth wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:03 pm Don't remember if there was anything Spain specific, but there is some discussion here-

viewtopic.php?p=2760574#p2760574
Thank you! I'll take a look!
User avatar
Carpet_pissr
Posts: 20138
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:32 pm
Location: Columbia, SC

Re: Moving abroad

Post by Carpet_pissr »

gbasden wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:26 am
Carpet_pissr wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:58 pm
gbasden wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:43 pm I'm thinking about the possibility of moving to Europe, most likely Spain. Thankfully I can still work remotely. I've been studying up, and I'm probably going to look at a golden visa as selling our house would let us pay cash for one that qualifies. I'm still entirely ignorant on all of the details - does anyone have practical experience with this? I've joined some Facebook groups and have been watching youtube videos, but it would be awesome to get some better information.

Thanks!
Glenn
Any particular reason for Spain over other countries? If you don't speak Spanish, I would recommend Portugal instead since their level of English in general in much higher than in Spain. Also, they are much more friendly to Americans in general, in my experience. Not to mention the cost of living differences.

Though with the massive tourism boom to Portugal in the past 10 years, the price difference might be less than it used to be.

I love Spain, don't get me wrong. Had some amazing times there, in many different cities during the 12 or so years I went there for work, but they can be a bit like the French with their attitudes towards Americans. You could definitely get by if you don't know Spanish (and pretty well, too), but I wouldn't recommend it (and of course, if you do know Spanish, makes total sense, and ignore this whole post!).
At least from everything I'm seeing right now, the golden visa for Portugal is a lot harder to get, for one. You have to buy specific kind of properties in specific opportunity zones and there have been a lot of people complaining about the process. The other reason is that we/I kind of fell in love with Galicia and I love the cooler, greener weather. I am working on learning Spanish right now - I know that's going to be a huge challenge. I totally appreciate your knowledge and input!
Galicia?! Well why didn't you say so - that's basically Portugal! :D If you are talking about the Vigo/Pontevedra area, you can discount most of what I said above about Spain in general, including the attitude. Definitely more laid back, more "American friendly", and likely more there that understand and/or WILLING to speak English. I was mostly referring to the more metro areas of Spain like Madrid, maybe Barcelona as well, though I haven't spent much time there.

Happy to answer any other questions...I have some outdated experience with immigration issues (though the opposite of what you are considering), quite a lot of experience in Spain and Portugal, and speak both of those languages fluently (Spanish>Portuguese though). I've also driven from Porto to Pontevedra and back a few times (but that was quite a few years ago, and the ol' database is not what it used to be).

I will echo what someone upthread mentioned about the bureaucracy though...it doesn't sound like something big enough to cause quality of life problems, but man, I'm here to tell you that it can be absolutely maddening. Especially, probably for Americans. MADDENING. It's truly taken to a level you probably haven't experienced...and I swear, even proudly so.
User avatar
gbasden
Posts: 7697
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:57 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Moving abroad

Post by gbasden »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:05 am
Galicia?! Well why didn't you say so - that's basically Portugal! :D If you are talking about the Vigo/Pontevedra area, you can discount most of what I said above about Spain in general, including the attitude. Definitely more laid back, more "American friendly", and likely more there that understand and/or WILLING to speak English. I was mostly referring to the more metro areas of Spain like Madrid, maybe Barcelona as well, though I haven't spent much time there.

Happy to answer any other questions...I have some outdated experience with immigration issues (though the opposite of what you are considering), quite a lot of experience in Spain and Portugal, and speak both of those languages fluently (Spanish>Portuguese though). I've also driven from Porto to Pontevedra and back a few times (but that was quite a few years ago, and the ol' database is not what it used to be).

I will echo what someone upthread mentioned about the bureaucracy though...it doesn't sound like something big enough to cause quality of life problems, but man, I'm here to tell you that it can be absolutely maddening. Especially, probably for Americans. MADDENING. It's truly taken to a level you probably haven't experienced...and I swear, even proudly so.
Actually, it was exactly Pontevedra that I am most interested in, although I want to go back and explore the whole area. I only really got to see that and Vigo. I have heard that the bureaucracy is mindblowingly bad. I am sure I have absolutely no idea what the depths of that really mean.

Are there other areas in that region that you have experience with?
User avatar
Carpet_pissr
Posts: 20138
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:32 pm
Location: Columbia, SC

Re: Moving abroad

Post by Carpet_pissr »

gbasden wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:09 am
Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:05 am
Galicia?! Well why didn't you say so - that's basically Portugal! :D If you are talking about the Vigo/Pontevedra area, you can discount most of what I said above about Spain in general, including the attitude. Definitely more laid back, more "American friendly", and likely more there that understand and/or WILLING to speak English. I was mostly referring to the more metro areas of Spain like Madrid, maybe Barcelona as well, though I haven't spent much time there.

Happy to answer any other questions...I have some outdated experience with immigration issues (though the opposite of what you are considering), quite a lot of experience in Spain and Portugal, and speak both of those languages fluently (Spanish>Portuguese though). I've also driven from Porto to Pontevedra and back a few times (but that was quite a few years ago, and the ol' database is not what it used to be).

I will echo what someone upthread mentioned about the bureaucracy though...it doesn't sound like something big enough to cause quality of life problems, but man, I'm here to tell you that it can be absolutely maddening. Especially, probably for Americans. MADDENING. It's truly taken to a level you probably haven't experienced...and I swear, even proudly so.
Actually, it was exactly Pontevedra that I am most interested in, although I want to go back and explore the whole area. I only really got to see that and Vigo. I have heard that the bureaucracy is mindblowingly bad. I am sure I have absolutely no idea what the depths of that really mean.

Are there other areas in that region that you have experience with?
Did you go to Santiago (de Compostela) while you were there? I have to assume yes, since it's so close (and amazing) from Pontevedra. But we've driven around that area, as well as the city of Coruña, which was also amazing. The massive Roman era lighthouse there, and the grounds around it are almost surreal. Those were two different trips, though, and again, quite a few years ago. Both times we would have driven from Porto.
User avatar
gbasden
Posts: 7697
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:57 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Moving abroad

Post by gbasden »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 4:20 pm
Did you go to Santiago (de Compostela) while you were there? I have to assume yes, since it's so close (and amazing) from Pontevedra. But we've driven around that area, as well as the city of Coruña, which was also amazing. The massive Roman era lighthouse there, and the grounds around it are almost surreal. Those were two different trips, though, and again, quite a few years ago. Both times we would have driven from Porto.
[/quote]

I didn't, but I plan to when we go back. I'd like to do a trip in the spring and explore more of the area.
Post Reply