Shootings

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 81819
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Shootings

Post by Isgrimnur »

Justice Department to pursue death penalty against Buffalo supermarket shooter
Lawyers ... previously said he would consider pleading guilty to the federal charges if the death penalty was taken off the table.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 51027
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: Shootings

Post by hepcat »

I wonder if the MAGA crowd considers him a hostage.
Covfefe!
malchior
Posts: 24792
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Shootings

Post by malchior »

hepcat wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 4:24 pm I wonder if the MAGA crowd considers him a hostage.
Naturally, a POW in the fight against DEI.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 81819
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Shootings

Post by Isgrimnur »

The police response to the Uvalde shooting was riddled with failures, a new DOJ report says
Police officials who responded to the deadly Uvalde, Texas, elementary school shooting waited far too long to confront the gunman, acted with “no urgency” in establishing a command post and communicated inaccurate information to grieving families, according to a Justice Department report released Thursday that identifies “cascading failures” in law enforcement’s handling of the massacre.

The Justice Department report, the most comprehensive federal accounting of the maligned police response to the May 24, 2022, shooting at Robb Elementary School, catalogs a sweeping array of training, communication, leadership and technology problems that federal officials say contributed to the crisis lasting far longer than necessary. All the while, the report says, terrified students inside the classrooms called 911 and agonized parents begged officers to go in.

“Had law enforcement agencies followed generally accepted practices in active shooter situations and gone right after the shooter and stopped him, lives would have been saved and people would have survived,” Attorney General Merrick Garland said Thursday at a news conference in Uvalde after Justice Department officials briefed family members on their findings. The Uvalde victims, he said, “deserved better.”
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 23488
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: Shootings

Post by Pyperkub »

Yesterday's "Killer City" Mall shooting didn't even blip...
KANSAS CITY, Mo. —

Six people were injured by gunfire Wednesday evening at Crown Center after two groups of people got into an argument. ...

..."I'm talking about 13-14-year-old kids running out of here," he said. "They come flying out. Dude, with the AK-47, he had it wrapped in a towel, and two other dudes jumped in a Chevy Tahoe--black Tahoe and sped off."

Police say the gunfire damaged some the surrounding businesses.

"I mean, it's Killer City," Gaston said. "That's all I got to say. Kansas City -that's what everybody calls it. That ain't nothing new."
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 54546
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Shootings

Post by Smoove_B »

"It is now widely understood by law enforcement agencies that in active shooter incidents, time is not on the side of law enforcement. Every second counts. And the priority of law enforcement must be to immediately enter the room & stop the shooter."
So...they have a duty to protect?
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 23488
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: Shootings

Post by Pyperkub »

...themselves. as we have seen.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 81819
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Shootings

Post by Isgrimnur »

Smoove_B wrote:
"It is now widely understood by law enforcement agencies that in active shooter incidents, time is not on the side of law enforcement. Every second counts. And the priority of law enforcement must be to immediately enter the room & stop the shooter."
So...they have a duty to protect?
Castle Rock says they don’t.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 26169
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Shootings

Post by Unagi »

Isgrimnur wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2024 7:11 pm
Smoove_B wrote:
"It is now widely understood by law enforcement agencies that in active shooter incidents, time is not on the side of law enforcement. Every second counts. And the priority of law enforcement must be to immediately enter the room & stop the shooter."
So...they have a duty to protect?
Castle Rock says they don’t.
Awkward
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 81819
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Shootings

Post by Isgrimnur »

Michigan school shooter’s mother to stand trial in students’ deaths
James and Jennifer Crumbley face charges of involuntary manslaughter. Prosecutors accuse them of making a gun accessible to their son, Ethan Crumbley, and of ignoring his alleged mental health issues.
. . .
The Crumbleys are the first parents to be charged in a mass school shooting in the United States, The Associated Press reported.
. . .
The parents were charged soon after the shooting and have been held in jail for more than two years, unable to make bail.

James Crumbley’s trial will be held in March.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55231
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: Shootings

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2024 6:43 pm
"It is now widely understood by law enforcement agencies that in active shooter incidents, time is not on the side of law enforcement. Every second counts. And the priority of law enforcement must be to immediately enter the room & stop the shooter."
So...they have a duty to protect?
Best practice and duty are different.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 26169
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Shootings

Post by Unagi »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2024 2:33 pm Best practice and duty are different.
Are 'best practices' within the jurisdiction of the DOJ?
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 81819
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Shootings

Post by Isgrimnur »

Jennifer Crumbley, mother of school shooter, found guilty of manslaughter in test of who’s responsible for a mass shooting
She faces up to 15 years in prison, and her sentencing hearing was set for April 9.
...
The prosecution argued Jennifer Crumbley is responsible for the deaths because she was “grossly negligent” in giving a gun to her son Ethan, who was 15 at the time, and failing to get him proper mental health treatment despite warning signs. Over a week of testimony, law enforcement officials, school employees, shooting victims and those who knew Jennifer Crumbley testified for the prosecution.
...
However, the defense argued the blame lay elsewhere: on her husband for improperly securing the firearm; on the school for failing to notify her about her son’s behavioral issues; and on Ethan himself, who planned and carried out the attack on his own. Defense attorney Shannon Smith said the case was “dangerous” for parents everywhere.
...
Jennifer Crumbley took the stand in her own defense and, in a remarkable moment, expressed no regret for her actions.
...
Crumbley’s husband, James, is scheduled to go on trial on the same charges in early March. Jennifer Crumbley’s defense and the prosecution were barred from speaking publicly about her case until the end of James Crumbley’s trial.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 16342
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: Shootings

Post by Zarathud »

I know an easy way to control the “danger” to parents — don’t give your kid a gun.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 81819
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Shootings

Post by Isgrimnur »

:-o
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Punisher
Posts: 3792
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:05 pm

Re: Shootings

Post by Punisher »

I'm confused.
It says she gave him the gun but then she blames her husband for not securing it properly.
If it was given to him then why is the husband responsible for securing it?
All yourLightning Bolts are Belong to Us
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 23488
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: Shootings

Post by Pyperkub »

Punisher wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:59 pm I'm confused.
It says she gave him the gun but then she blames her husband for not securing it properly.
If it was given to him then why is the husband responsible for securing it?
Per Back to the Future...

Image
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 43299
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: Shootings

Post by Blackhawk »

Punisher wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:59 pm I'm confused.
It says she gave him the gun but then she blames her husband for not securing it properly.
If it was given to him then why is the husband responsible for securing it?
Short version: She was trying to throw her husband under the bus to protect herself from jail time.

The fact that she was willing to do that to family tells me all I need to know about her quality as a parent.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 81819
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Shootings

Post by Isgrimnur »

His trial should be interesting.
Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:32 pm Over a week of testimony, law enforcement officials, school employees, shooting victims and those who knew Jennifer Crumbley testified for the prosecution.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55231
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: Shootings

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Punisher wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:59 pm I'm confused.
It says she gave him the gun but then she blames her husband for not securing it properly.
If it was given to him then why is the husband responsible for securing it?
They gifted him the gun but he was too young to actually own/posess. So in theory they should have kept it secure and out of his hands.

As an aside, any parent knows irs virtually impossible to keep kids out of everything so in addition to securing firearms, a parent must teach their kids gun safety if there are gun in the home. Preferably, even if there are not guns in the home.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55231
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: Shootings

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Shooter down at pastor Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Church in Houston, authorities say

The shooter at the Lakewood Church was a woman between 30 and 35 years of age who was armed with a long rifle and accompanied by a child, Houston Police Chief Troy Finner told reporters at a Sunday news conference.

“She is deceased here on the scene,” Finner said.

...

A Lakewood parishioner at the scene told CNN affiliate KPRC he was inside the church waiting for the Spanish language service to start when he heard multiple shots fired. The man was then instructed by a church usher to run, he told KPRC. The service was slated to begin at 3:00 p.m. ET, according to the church website.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/11/us/joel- ... index.html


Doesn't fit the normal profile but then again, everyone is shooter now. Some reports say she tried to shoot Osteen but no real confirmation of that yet.

I guess we're finally at the point of "bring your kid to shooting day".

EDIT: Sounds like armed security/off duty police managed to take her down before too much damage but at least one injury besides the shooter - a 5 year old in critical condtion.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Alefroth
Posts: 8377
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Bellingham WA

Re: Shootings

Post by Alefroth »

Christ, the child she brought with her is in critical condition. No word yet on who shot him.
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 43482
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Re: Shootings

Post by Kraken »

I guess Florida's red flag law is effectively useless? My BIL is threatening to kill particular people and said he keeps loading and unloading his handgun, which nobody's sure really exists. He's always had serious anger issues and has been threatening to kill people for as long as I've known him, so this is probably more lovable bluster. We'd all be better off it he were restrained and medicated. But it's wicked hard to get someone involuntarily committed, and even harder to take their gun away in FL.

I'm sure this will blow over like it always has for the 40+ years I've known him. But if his gun isn't imaginary it needs to be taken away, and as I understand it FL's red flag law is "LOL freedumb!"
User avatar
em2nought
Posts: 5231
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:48 am

Re: Shootings

Post by em2nought »

Kraken wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:15 am I guess Florida's red flag law is effectively useless?
Florida has the Baker Act too. Sounds like the BIL is dealing with diminished capacities and impulse control to me. It's good he doesn't have a nuclear football. :wink:
My condo is now listed on the MLS, fingers crossed!
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 51027
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: Shootings

Post by hepcat »

I agree with your not so subtle knock against Trump. I too am glad he doesn’t have access to the nuclear football given his obvious mental issues and lack of impulse control.
Covfefe!
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 26169
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Shootings

Post by Unagi »

Zarathud wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:40 pm I know an easy way to control the “danger” to parents — don’t give your kid a gun.
Yeah, it's funny how I have absolutely no personal fear of that danger at all.
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 26169
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Shootings

Post by Unagi »

Alefroth wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:36 am Christ, the child she brought with her is in critical condition. No word yet on who shot him.
A good guy, with a gun - isn't it clear?
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55231
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: Shootings

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Kraken wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:15 am I guess Florida's red flag law is effectively useless? My BIL is threatening to kill particular people and said he keeps loading and unloading his handgun, which nobody's sure really exists. He's always had serious anger issues and has been threatening to kill people for as long as I've known him, so this is probably more lovable bluster. We'd all be better off it he were restrained and medicated. But it's wicked hard to get someone involuntarily committed, and even harder to take their gun away in FL.

I'm sure this will blow over like it always has for the 40+ years I've known him. But if his gun isn't imaginary it needs to be taken away, and as I understand it FL's red flag law is "LOL freedumb!"
You have to contact local law enforcement and let them know, particularly about the threats of violence. Of course not knowing whether he actually has a firearm or not may make it even more difficult to get them to act.

Florida ERPO.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 43482
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Re: Shootings

Post by Kraken »

Wife's brother phased back into sanity today, as he always does eventually after one of his anger episodes, and told her he doesn't really have a gun. He probably doesn't, but who knows for sure? Does FL even license them?
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55231
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: Shootings

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Kraken wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:50 pm Wife's brother phased back into sanity today, as he always does eventually after one of his anger episodes, and told her he doesn't really have a gun. He probably doesn't, but who knows for sure? Does FL even license them?
There's no license and no way to know if he purchased one. They do have do to a NICS check and I think a state background (Firearm Purchase Program) but that alone doesn't say what, if anything, was purchased. It's also not information that is readily available.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 51027
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: Shootings

Post by hepcat »

There are some reports coming out after the identity of the church shooter was just released. Some of them are stating she was a Trans woman with "Free Palestine" written on her gun barrel.

It's like a late Christmas present for MAGA, in other words.
Covfefe!
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 81819
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Shootings

Post by Isgrimnur »

ABC News
A sticker saying "Palestine" was on the AR-15 rifle a woman used to open fire at celebrity pastor Joel Osteen's Lakewood Church in Houston, injuring two, including her son, according to police

Some antisemitic writings have been recovered, but a motive behind the Sunday afternoon shooting has not been determined, according to police.

"We do believe that there was a familial dispute that has taken place between her ex-husband and her ex-husband's family," some of whom are Jewish, police said.

The suspect, 36-year-old Genesse Ivonne Moreno, entered the church with her 7-year-old son, and she may have pointed her weapon at a security officer to force her way into the church, police said.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 69927
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Shootings

Post by LordMortis »

hepcat wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:17 pm It's like a late Christmas present for MAGA, in other words.
Maybe they should make efforts to improve mental health care and make it harder for unstable people to get/keep guns? :think:
User avatar
waitingtoconnect
Posts: 888
Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 5:56 am

Re: Shootings

Post by waitingtoconnect »

I’ve always been shocked in some states you can be deemed unable to decide on your own finances or medical care but you can still buy a gun.

I can not understand how in Wild West states where you used to not be allowed to carry guns in town (and this can be proven) it’s now ok to openly carry military rifles and ammo with which you could hold off a 19th century brigade or dozens of Texas police while gunning down school children.

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” – The Second Amendment ratified on December 15, 1791.

I don’t understand how well regulated became not regulated.
User avatar
Moliere
Posts: 12217
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Walking through a desert land

Re: Shootings

Post by Moliere »

hepcat wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:17 pm It's like a late Christmas present for MAGA, in other words.
Everything is a Christmas present for both sides since every event is automatically pushed through their respective narrative filter. Almost all newscasts have been turned into entertainment pushing the proper narrative to their audiences.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 51027
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: Shootings

Post by hepcat »

Sometimes one narrative is more harmful than the others though. Pushing the message that everyone who’s gay, bi or trans is a potential psychotic killer, pedophile or rapist is of that harmful camp. Pushing the narrative that Trump is a lying dick? Less so.
Covfefe!
User avatar
Punisher
Posts: 3792
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:05 pm

Re: Shootings

Post by Punisher »

To be fair, everyone has those potentials.
But I agree that making it sound like certain groups are more prone to it is no bueno.
I'd bet that percentage wise those groups are on the lower end of the spectrum as far as documented case of them doing those things vs other groups of people doing them.
All yourLightning Bolts are Belong to Us
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 23488
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: Shootings

Post by Pyperkub »

KC Super Bowl Parade shots fired
Kansas City police are asking people to leave the area near Union Station as quickly as possible as they treat victims of a shooting after a pep rally celebrating the Chiefs Super Bowl win.

“Anyone nearby needs to leave the area as quickly and safely as possible to facilitate treatment of the shooting victims. Please avoid the Union Station parking garage area to allow first responders through,” police said.

Police said two armed people were taken into custody.

There is no word on the number of victims.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 43299
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: Shootings

Post by Blackhawk »

I'm reaching a point at which I'm glad that I'm the introverted type who prefers solitude (or just a few family/friends) over social gatherings. There's fine line between paranoid and cautious, but it's getting to the point where I can't go into a large business/store/restaurant/theater without double checking approaches an exits and eye-searching people who are moving against the flow. I broke myself of those habits 20 years ago, and I hate that they've come back. But it doesn't seem like we can go more than a few days without some gathering coming under attack.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 23488
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: Shootings

Post by Pyperkub »

CNN story updated:
Upwards of 10 victims were injured in a shooting at Union Station at the end of the Chiefs rally, according to Michael Hopkins with the Kansas City Fire Department
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Post Reply