Diablo 4

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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Blackhawk »

Jaddison wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2024 9:47 am $65 for a mount, armor and some platinum...not that much platinum mind you. Has Blizzard lost their minds?
That's the really annoying thing about their shop. Not only are the prices ridiculous, but they make it sound more palatable by including a 'discount' in the form of store credit. You're still giving Bethesda $65. I've only gotten cosmetics with what I've earned through the seasons. The problem is that if enough devoted fans bitch but still buy, it could end up being more profitable than selling more reasonably priced cosmetics to more people. We'll know in a year or two, based on whether they suddenly decide to show how much they love their community by lowering the prices.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Jaddison »

$30 for class specific portals......something you should be able to earn in game not pay $30...$30 is the price of many decent games but hey lets get the suckers to pay for colored portals
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Blackhawk »

I don't mind companies charging for extras, especially when they're purely cosmetic. I see it as the price we pay in exchange for games not costing $100+ retail (which they should - inflation alone should put them at around $95, and many games get a lot more active support after release than in the past.)

But yeah, everything from Diablo 4 is absurd to the point of being a joke. It's not just you, you can find plenty of news sites (including mainstream sites) discussing it. It's not popular (which doesn't mean it's not profitable.) And in this case, they're just recolors of the basic portal rather than something suitable to the class (like a gate made of bones for a necro, or of vines for a druid, etc.)
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Re: Diablo 4

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You have besmirched the name of Blizzard Jesus. Blasphemy. :mrgreen: :ninja:
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Re: Diablo 4

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I besmirch what deserves besmirching, and desmirch that which is besmirched unjustly.
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Re: Diablo 4

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But have you seen their merch?
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Re: Diablo 4

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I have some. I got smirch on their merch, but a quick wash fixed it.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by gilraen »

Blackhawk wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2024 12:44 pm But yeah, everything from Diablo 4 is absurd to the point of being a joke. It's not just you, you can find plenty of news sites (including mainstream sites) discussing it. It's not popular (which doesn't mean it's not profitable.) And in this case, they're just recolors of the basic portal rather than something suitable to the class (like a gate made of bones for a necro, or of vines for a druid, etc.)
Diablo 4 is moving to Game Pass on March 28. Not sure what it means for the overall profitability of the game, but it will likely ensure a steady stream of new players (when you feel like you are playing "for free", you are more likely to check out a game, even when the reviews are not good).
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Jaddison »

Blackhawk wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2024 12:44 pm I don't mind companies charging for extras, especially when they're purely cosmetic. I see it as the price we pay in exchange for games not costing $100+ retail (which they should - inflation alone should put them at around $95, and many games get a lot more active support after release than in the past.)

But yeah, everything from Diablo 4 is absurd to the point of being a joke. It's not just you, you can find plenty of news sites (including mainstream sites) discussing it. It's not popular (which doesn't mean it's not profitable.) And in this case, they're just recolors of the basic portal rather than something suitable to the class (like a gate made of bones for a necro, or of vines for a druid, etc.)
The class specific portals do have a class specific thing besides color but there really isn't $30 of "wow"
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Blackhawk »

Jaddison wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2024 8:40 pm The class specific portals do have a class specific thing besides color but there really isn't $30 of "wow"
Ah, I hadn't heard that. I haven't checked them out myself, and had just been seeing them referred to as 'recolors of the default portal.'
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Sudy »

I was away for several days and missed playing, but now that I'm back I think I may be done for the season. Rogue is only to 91 and I haven't done any of the endgame bosses other than Varshan (ever), but looking over their guides I just have no desire to farm their summoning mats. Running nightmare dungeons to level up glyphs is grindy as sin. The higher-tier season journey rewards don't feel worth it. Titles? An icon?

I've found all the altars of Lilith, but I still have yet to claim the final renown tier for each region. I could really use the 20 paragon points; if not his season, the next. But I have zero desire to knock out 600 points' worth of dungeons and side quests.

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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Jaddison »

Sudy wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:14 am I was away for several days and missed playing, but now that I'm back I think I may be done for the season. Rogue is only to 91 and I haven't done any of the endgame bosses other than Varshan (ever), but looking over their guides I just have no desire to farm their summoning mats. Running nightmare dungeons to level up glyphs is grindy as sin. The higher-tier season journey rewards don't feel worth it. Titles? An icon?

I've found all the altars of Lilith, but I still have yet to claim the final renown tier for each region. I could really use the 20 paragon points; if not his season, the next. But I have zero desire to knock out 600 points' worth of dungeons and side quests.
The glyph leveling grind is what made me stop last season...got to 100 but fought the beast in the ice got my ass kicked realized and found no desire to get multiple glyphs to 15 or do anything else for that last tier
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Jaddison »

I was curious to try out a non-shape shifting druid. For some reason I am bouncing off the rogue and necromancer hard...which is interesting because i found a way to enjoy all the D3 classes.

Anyway created a storm druid and was intrigued enough to be approaching 50 and tier 3. I could see a combo storm/earth druid as there are several perks that play of the synergy of earth and storm. I have tried barbarian variants but they really all seem the same. Sorcerer is definitely different in significant ways if you do fire/ice vs lightning but to survive you have to have the defensive spread so it isn't really all that different in the end
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Torfish »

Blizzard announced a few changes coming to D4 and they look to be major changes for the better.

Massive changes to items. They are removing dumb effects that are boring and focusing more on impactful effects that will feel powerful
Complete redesign of the codex. All affixes will be there and no longer will be an item where you keep in your stash
Greater affixes added to the game. These will be loot drops only
New crafting system called masterworks
Redesign of character classes and their skill trees
End game additions:
Helltides will be buffed with more monsters and new events. They will be in world tier 1, 2, 3, 4
New end game called The Pit. Addes new crafting and boss stuff
New end game boss ladders
New end game boss
All bosses will have an Uber version

Season 4 looks to be delayed until they have all this ready to go. Public PTR prior to all season releases. I like it.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Sudy »

Damn, I've only read your post, but this sounds fantastic!

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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Jaddison »

That sounds promising.

I have been playing a little bit every day. Doing what? Grinding through the regions on hardcore to get all the bonuses so that future hardcore characters get all the perks/advantages.
Also, decided to see if I could figure out werewolf druid....now in WT3 and it is a killing machine and the pets seem viable. I have 3 werewolf companions that hit hard and when i hit the attack button and they all jump on the target at once it packs a punch. Last night we took the Butcher down in about 5 seconds.
Season 4 sounds like something to look forward to....I wonder what they were thinking before launch? Sounds like seasons 1-3 were actually playable beta
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Moliere »

March 28th on Xbox Gamepass!
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Jaddison »

For anyone tempted, there is a 35% experience and gold boost through 2 April
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Moliere »

Downloaded. Xbox Gamepass shows its worth (again). Time to go hack and slash.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Scraper »

I started a barbarian playthrough on the Series X.
Im about 4 hours in and really liking it. This game seems like a good evolution from Diablo 3.
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Re: Diablo 4

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I may reinstall this to see what the Season 4 stuff in April is about.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by disarm »

I started playing on PC through GamePass tonight; first time I've been in the game since playing the pre-release stress test on Xbox. Unfortunately, I gave up for the night after being dropped from the server and the game shutting down three times in 15 minutes. I guess Blizzard just doesn't want me to play tonight...
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Re: Diablo 4

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I started a druid as Ive never played one. Normally Id had 3 attacks and such by lvl 5 but Im still using the bear morph slap. I put all my points into it for now. Bitch slapping a boss to death is new to me.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Moliere »

monster scaling

Yeah, this game has become annoying. The harder I work to complete side quests and find gear upgrades the more the enemies around me scale their difficulty to match me. :grund:
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Re: Diablo 4

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Ya I think Im gonna uninstall again hehe.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Blackhawk »

Responding to the content in the Reddit post, not the posters here.

Level scaling was a problem in Oblivion. It isn't in Diablo.
The loot doesn't even seem to really matter while leveling through the campaign. The primary factor determining your strength while leveling is how low you can keep your character's level relative to the content.
That's how most games in this and related titles that leverage the Diablo system work. They're a constant experience, and while there may be caps in certain areas, in general the enemies are always going to level with you. The idea is that you can approach things in any order (you can even play the first three chapters in any order without affecting the story flow at all), and can return to previous areas. And yeah, that amazing, game-changing gear you find now will be replaced in a few levels (otherwise the 'find loot' mechanic would be pointless), and when you're low level, those 'few levels' come very quickly.

Here's the one thing that Reddit post seems to miss: Eliminate level scaling and you eliminate half of the gameplay. You don't farm for gear while you're leveling. It's pointless, as you will outlevel it in an hour. It's why they don't even unlock items with certain mechanics until later world tiers. Games like Diablo aren't about the experience as you go through the campaign. They're not designed for that. They're designed around the experience you have after you're done with it, or (in other, similar games) for later playthroughs. Borderlands, for example, is based on the Diablo mechanics. The game is designed around what you do when you finish the second or third playthroughs. The first is always going to be oddly balanced, fairly vanilla (most of the cool mechanics haven't kicked in), and serves mostly to get you ready for the core content.

If you're playing these games as a way to go through the story once, more power to you, and have fun, but the game wasn't designed for that experience, and won't be at its best.

Redesigning the game for that experience, in most cases, would destroy the experience that most people play for.

Shall we also have a discussion about the importance of researching builds (even if you make your own?) Because that one seems to bother a lot of people, too. Diablo isn't Baldur's Gate.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Moliere »

Blackhawk wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:25 pm If you're playing these games as a way to go through the story once, more power to you, and have fun, but the game wasn't designed for that experience, and won't be at its best.
I rarely play a game after completing the initial playthrough. Cyberpunk 2077 was the rare exception. Based upon your feedback this might be a short Diablo 4 experience.
Blackhawk wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:25 pm Shall we also have a discussion about the importance of researching builds (even if you make your own?) Because that one seems to bother a lot of people, too. Diablo isn't Baldur's Gate.
Whether it is BG3, Oblivion, Elden Ring, or Diablo 4 I don't spend much time researching builds. I prefer to wing it and figure it out for myself deciding on the character I like to play and with what abilities rather than what some YouTube video tells me is the optimum build and class.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Blackhawk »

Moliere wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:01 am
Blackhawk wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:25 pm If you're playing these games as a way to go through the story once, more power to you, and have fun, but the game wasn't designed for that experience, and won't be at its best.
I rarely play a game after completing the initial playthrough. Cyberpunk 2077 was the rare exception. Based upon your feedback this might be a short Diablo 4 experience.
Blackhawk wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:25 pm Shall we also have a discussion about the importance of researching builds (even if you make your own?) Because that one seems to bother a lot of people, too. Diablo isn't Baldur's Gate.
Whether it is BG3, Oblivion, Elden Ring, or Diablo 4 I don't spend much time researching builds. I prefer to wing it and figure it out for myself deciding on the character I like to play and with what abilities rather than what some YouTube video tells me is the optimum build and class.
None of those games require it, as none of those games are designed around the assumption that a few hundred people are going to hyper-analyze the data and provide highly optimized builds to hundreds of thousands of customers. Whether it's Diablo, or Borderlands, or World of Warcraft, the endgame is balanced around a fairly optimized build.

That doesn't mean that you can't figure one out yourself, but it does mean that some research is required to understand the mechanics, to understand why one skill is great when it sounds like crap, and why one skill that sounds amazing is useless.

But if you're just playing games like that once through for the campaign, it doesn't matter. Again, the core of the game doesn't kick in until later. If you're not going that far, you can usually get by with almost anything.

And to be very clear - none of this is a criticism of people that don't enjoy endgame-focused games, or who play them through only once. It's more of a commentary on the criticism people level on a lot of them when they try to play them and either find them dull (because they didn't get to half of the content), or too easy (because they didn't get to the core of the game), or too hard (because the difficulty ramped up and their character wasn't designed with an understanding of the systems in play.)

It's sort of like someone trying to play Elden Ring like Skyrim, then commenting about how Elden Ring has problems because of it. It's not the game that's the problem (although most games like this do have quite a few), it's the expectations that are misplaced.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Moliere »

A couple more attempts at Vhenard and uninstalled. Oh well, thanks XBox Gamepass for the "free" game.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Scraper »

I honestly don't see how this game would work without the level scaling. If it wasn't in there you would easily out level the zones way before you get to them. As it is you can go almost anywhere and in any order you want because of the scaling.

With that said I have zero intentions of playing this multiplayer. I'm going to finish the main story and then bounce on to something else. I realize I'm missing all of the end game, but I really don't care about the end game.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Moliere »

Scraper wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 8:46 am I honestly don't see how this game would work without the level scaling. If it wasn't in there you would easily out level the zones way before you get to them. As it is you can go almost anywhere and in any order you want because of the scaling.
I like games that have a range in each zone with a minimum and maximum level for the mobs. So as a Level 1 I will get crushed by walking into a zone with a minimum level of 10, but as a level 20 I am not getting crushed in the starting zone with a range of 1-5.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Hyena »

Moliere wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 9:50 am
Scraper wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 8:46 am I honestly don't see how this game would work without the level scaling. If it wasn't in there you would easily out level the zones way before you get to them. As it is you can go almost anywhere and in any order you want because of the scaling.
I like games that have a range in each zone with a minimum and maximum level for the mobs. So as a Level 1 I will get crushed by walking into a zone with a minimum level of 10, but as a level 20 I am not getting crushed in the starting zone with a range of 1-5.
I agree with this. I have taken great pleasure in going back to zones and wholesale slaughtering the wolves and boars that gave me problems as a little 1st level. I remember when Oblivion level scaled everything and it got to the point of absurdity. There was a couple or three bandits on the first road away from the prison exit, and when I came back after a dozen levels or so, yep, there they were, still dressed in their rags and threatening me. But imagine my surprise after I killed them when their inventory dropped and they had all daedric armor and weapons...
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Scraper »

Hyena wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 10:23 am
Moliere wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 9:50 am
Scraper wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 8:46 am I honestly don't see how this game would work without the level scaling. If it wasn't in there you would easily out level the zones way before you get to them. As it is you can go almost anywhere and in any order you want because of the scaling.
I like games that have a range in each zone with a minimum and maximum level for the mobs. So as a Level 1 I will get crushed by walking into a zone with a minimum level of 10, but as a level 20 I am not getting crushed in the starting zone with a range of 1-5.
I agree with this. I have taken great pleasure in going back to zones and wholesale slaughtering the wolves and boars that gave me problems as a little 1st level. I remember when Oblivion level scaled everything and it got to the point of absurdity. There was a couple or three bandits on the first road away from the prison exit, and when I came back after a dozen levels or so, yep, there they were, still dressed in their rags and threatening me. But imagine my surprise after I killed them when their inventory dropped and they had all daedric armor and weapons...
I like both systems. There is something enjoyable about wiping out low levels mobs that used to trouble you. There is also something enjoyable about a game that always presents a challenge. So I can live with both systems, it's just I think that Diablo wouldn't work as well with the low level mob system.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Blackhawk »

Moliere wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 9:50 am
Scraper wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 8:46 am I honestly don't see how this game would work without the level scaling. If it wasn't in there you would easily out level the zones way before you get to them. As it is you can go almost anywhere and in any order you want because of the scaling.
I like games that have a range in each zone with a minimum and maximum level for the mobs. So as a Level 1 I will get crushed by walking into a zone with a minimum level of 10, but as a level 20 I am not getting crushed in the starting zone with a range of 1-5.
Absolutely. It's the classic MMO approach. But Diablo 4 is designed from the ground up to not work that way. The entire campaign would fall apart if they changed the scaling. The exploration would break. Events would break. If they wanted to have leveled zones, they'd need to rebuild the game from scratch.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Moliere »

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:13 pm
Moliere wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 9:50 am
Scraper wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 8:46 am I honestly don't see how this game would work without the level scaling. If it wasn't in there you would easily out level the zones way before you get to them. As it is you can go almost anywhere and in any order you want because of the scaling.
I like games that have a range in each zone with a minimum and maximum level for the mobs. So as a Level 1 I will get crushed by walking into a zone with a minimum level of 10, but as a level 20 I am not getting crushed in the starting zone with a range of 1-5.
Absolutely. It's the classic MMO approach. But Diablo 4 is designed from the ground up to not work that way. The entire campaign would fall apart if they changed the scaling. The exploration would break. Events would break. If they wanted to have leveled zones, they'd need to rebuild the game from scratch.
And I'm not saying what Diablo 4 is bad or a bad game design, I'm saying I don't like playing it. I appreciate Gamepass offering it so I didn't have to spend $40 on Steam to come to this decision.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Jaddison »

Hit 90, defeated Zir and now really no interest in all that last tier stuff and I did it all with a storm druid who is always in human form. There is a synergy between poison creeper and earthen bulwark that is a crowd killer then with multiple paragon board damage reduction in human form and this build has been more survivable than the tank/bear while killing fast.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Jaddison »

New season started and helltides are now across all world tiers. At first I had no idea what my "mission" was to get started but it is to jump into helltides.
With vacation starting tomorrow won't have much time to explore until I get back but loot definitely has changed
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Torfish »

Incredibly fast leveling. Of about 3.5 hours, I'm in the 40's already and in Tier 3. Only doing Helltides.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Skinypupy »

I haven't paid any attention to the D4 seasons, but decided to jump in with a new Rogue last night. I'm a little confused on what it is I'm actually supposed to be doing.

From what I can tell, I'm just supposed to be killing all the constantly respawning mobs in the red Helltide zones? Is that pretty much it? I spent a couple hours doing that last night (got up to level 20), but it already felt kinda boring. I'm sure there's probably something else I need to jump into once I hit a certain level (50?) but I have no idea what that something is.

Full disclosure: I haven't touched D4 since finishing the campaign ages ago, so I don't really know what the endgame involves.
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Re: Diablo 4

Post by Sudy »

Skinypupy wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 11:45 am I'm sure there's probably something else I need to jump into once I hit a certain level (50?) but I have no idea what that something is.
There's a new endgame activity called "The Pit" which I've heard referred to as D4's spin on D3's greater rifts. Andariel has now joined Duriel as an endgame boss as well (same loot pool and a primary but no longer exclusive source of uniques), and there's a whole new difficulty tier for endgame bosses. I know that's not all that's changed, but it's what comes to mind in terms of endgame.

I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
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