3D Printing

[hentzau]

Took me a while to wrap my brain around the idea that the extruder wasn't the nozzle that the filament came out of but the motor that actually pushed the filament through the bowden tube to the hot end.

As far as cleaning out a blockage that may have creeped up the hot end, there's a method called a cold pull that they use for cleaning out the nozzle.

[Punisher]

something ive done, and still do, is crank the heat past the upper limit of the filament and push, pull.
Alternatively if you have cleaning filament, crank it all the way up and try using that.

[Blackhawk]

I honestly don't think I'm looking at a clog. When the settings work, I get pretty clean prints. It was just the 'push first' bit that I was missing (which, I am guessing, softens or melts it in the area that it's likely to bind.) I have also used cleaning filament a couple of times already.

The next problem I have to tackle is how to keep it dry when the room itself is humid. Storing it is easy - but putting it in the printer is more of a problem. Indiana being Indiana, I may need to look into a dry box that I can feed directly out of, then use that instead of the spool holder.

[hentzau]

I don’t ever really have that much of a problem with humidity. If I’ve had a roll that has been sitting down here open for months it may have issues. You really shouldn’t have issues with the spool on the feeder while it’s printing. (Also depends on brand/quality of filament. Sometimes a deal isn’t such a deal.)

[Blackhawk]

I've been using Hatchbox almost exclusively. It's one of the most recommended brands, it's affordable, and I've gotten good results with it. And the humidity over the last few days has been rising... and I've started to see exactly the kind of issues that humidity causes (like I'm seeing stringing for the first time since I got it.)

From what I've heard, a few hours in high humidity is enough to start to compromise a spool. Of course, I don't know what the humidity is like in Ruritania.

[Blackhawk]

Huh.

I say again, huh. That's both simple and effective, and I'm pretty sure I have everything I'd need lying around.

[Blackhawk]

A filament dryer/warmer has solved quite a few of the problems I was having. It was an investment, but it's already been worth it.

I've been messing around with transparent filament the last few days. Obviously I'm not going to get anything clear, but I can absolutely get translucent (clear = you can see through it, translucent = light can go through it.) I'm experimenting with printing something like...



...this in transparent filament and then painting the non-glass portions and leaving the bottles, etc. unpainted. I also have a couple of very clear specialty paints that I might use paint them partway up the side to show the bottles half empty full.

I've about written off resin printing as impossible. I've asked a bunch of places about how feasible it is to fully encase something and create ventilation to make it safe to print in my bedroom. The answers have been unanimous: I can't. Don't even try.

I've been part of the tabletop hobby for 40 years, and it's been shifting into the realm of 3d printing for a while now. It was slow at first, but it's been picking up speed. Some companies already release many of their products only a .stl files, and it's only a matter of time before we start to see board games going up on crowdfunding sites that don't actually ship with any physical components.

It would suck if the tabletop hobby started forcing out anyone who doesn't have the luxury of a self-contained workshop.

Still, it is what it is, and my situation is what it is. If I'm not looking at resin, maybe I can invest in a somewhat better FDM printer that can get at least a little better detail, and that can print some full-sized pieces (I have dozens of files that I've opened, only to find that they're too big to fit my 120x120.)

[hentzau]

A filament dryer/warmer has solved quite a few of the problems I was having. It was an investment, but it's already been worth it.

I've been messing around with transparent filament the last few days. Obviously I'm not going to get anything clear, but I can absolutely get translucent (clear = you can see through it, translucent = light can go through it.) I'm experimenting with printing something like...



...this in transparent filament and then painting the non-glass portions and leaving the bottles, etc. unpainted. I also have a couple of very clear specialty paints that I might use paint them partway up the side to show the bottles half empty full.

I've about written off resin printing as impossible. I've asked a bunch of places about how feasible it is to fully encase something and create ventilation to make it safe to print in my bedroom. The answers have been unanimous: I can't. Don't even try.

I've been part of the tabletop hobby for 40 years, and it's been shifting into the realm of 3d printing for a while now. It was slow at first, but it's been picking up speed. Some companies already release many of their products only a .stl files, and it's only a matter of time before we start to see board games going up on crowdfunding sites that don't actually ship with any physical components.

It would suck if the tabletop hobby started forcing out anyone who doesn't have the luxury of a self-contained workshop.

Still, it is what it is, and my situation is what it is. If I'm not looking at resin, maybe I can invest in a somewhat better FDM printer that can get at least a little better detail, and that can print some full-sized pieces (I have dozens of files that I've opened, only to find that they're too big to fit my 120x120.)

Transparent filament is fun to play with. Fat Dragon Games have a bunch of files that you can print in translucent and then add lights to them to give you flickering fireplaces, lanterns, etc. I've got a few of them printed out.

And you have to think in a few years time they will have consumer-safe resins on the market.

[hentzau]

[Blackhawk]

Transparent filament is fun to play with. Fat Dragon Games have a bunch of files that you can print in translucent and then add lights to them to give you flickering fireplaces, lanterns, etc. I've got a few of them printed out.

I actually backed this, then got their fantasy set as an add-on. The fact that it uses non-bulky, self-contained, affordable LED lighting was the main selling point for me.

I've been wanting to learn how to add LEDs to terrain for a decade now, but the learning curve keeps putting me off (keeping in mind that I don't know the math involved in learning even basic electronics, so I'd have to start with a significant amount of math first to build up to what I need to know, and I haven't been able to get straight answers on exactly what that is - right now I'd be looking at the equivalent of a several years of school math classes.)

And you have to think in a few years time they will have consumer-safe resins on the market.

That would be nice. Is this something that's been announced? I've been working with casting resins for some time now, and the very same health risks exist for the very same reason, and as far as I know, there's never been a less-toxic alternative.

[hentzau]

Those LED balls are interesting. Tom's models use special clips that you insert flat batteries into, and the ends of the LED fold around the clip. No special wiring or anything needs to be done for it, so they're simple builds.

[Blackhawk]

"Tom's" is Fat Dragon?

[hentzau]

"Tom's" is Fat Dragon?

Yeah, sorry. Tom Tullis is the creator of the Fat Dragon Games Dragonlock tiles. Also, a real good resource for 3D printing tips. He primarily uses Ender 3 (and now Bambu Labs A1 variants) for his printing, so most of his tutorials are geared for those devices, but his youtube channel still has some really solid advice on it.

[Blackhawk]

Although, I'll be honest: I really want to get off of my ass and learn to wire things up myself. It's just such a tough subject to get a footing in, especially if you have gaps in some foundational knowledge like mathematics. I moved around so much as a kid, sometimes 3-4 schools in a single year, that my math education is full of holes. You can get away with gaps in other subjects (once the exam for the French Revolution is over, you don't need, or miss, that information once you start the next unit.) But math? Skip over one topic in a school switch, and every topic after that becomes impossible.)

Spending a year or two doing nothing but studying math is about as appealing as jamming needles through my eyelids.

[Blackhawk]

I've been a Fat Dragon customer off and on for a long time, and I'm a fan of their products and the company (although in the past it was their paper products that brought me to them.)

I've also been looking at OpenForge. I've thought about hand-crafting foam dungeon tiles, but OpenForge seems comparable to Dwarven Forge in quality, but costs pennies per piece. And of the various dungeon tile systems, it seems to have the widest selection (and being free is certainly a plus, too.)

[Isgrimnur]

I'm tutoring someone from Imgur on math as she starts on her college level. I'd be happy to do the same for you.

[Blackhawk]

I'm tutoring someone from Imgur on math as she starts on her college level. I'd be happy to do the same for you.

I appreciate it. I'll be honest, though, I know how to learn math. I have the resources, including access to both online classes and a small pile of books. Counterintuitively, I'm actually pretty good at math (as in being able to grasp it.) I just lack the actual education. The big roadblock has always been that years of being brow-beaten by teachers over failing in their math classes, despite my having no idea why (adult hindsight: because I had gaps in my knowledge of the basics), and generally having math make me feel like a shameful failure gave me a significant mental stumbling block that makes me cringe and cower in the closet any time I see an equation or a Greek letter next to Arabic numerals.

[Fardaza]

That's really nice BH! I don't see any lines. That's been the biggest reason I haven't looked into 3d printing. I don't like the looks of the layer lines.

[Blackhawk]

That's really nice BH! I don't see any lines. That's been the biggest reason I haven't looked into 3d printing. I don't like the looks of the layer lines.

Thanks! Now, if I can just get my prints to look like the renders from Thingiverse!

3d printing has come a long way since some of the early stuff I have seen. The layer lines are far less prominent, and I've seen multiple products that can easily eliminate them (I've been experimenting with XTC-3D by Smooth-On.) And, if nothing else, I can de-emphasize remaining lines by limiting my use of washes/contrast paints in areas where they're prominent.

So far I'm still in the 'make random crap and figure out how to solve problems' phase, so I don't have much ready to share.

[Blackhawk]

Enough clear prints for now. I've got the settings as good as I think they're going to get. I've got a few pieces I need to print with PLA, then it's time for the next learning curve: PETG for a few tougher pieces (like the clips for my likely-upcoming OpenForge tiles.)

[hentzau]

Enough clear prints for now. I've got the settings as good as I think they're going to get. I've got a few pieces I need to print with PLA, then it's time for the next learning curve: PETG for a few tougher pieces (like the clips for my likely-upcoming OpenForge tiles.)

Couple of thoughts…be careful moving from PLA. I know you’re concerned about offgassing and some of the other filaments can be kind of nasty.

And I prefer a more flexible clip over a more rigid one. Easier on the fingers to add and remove.

[Blackhawk]

Enough clear prints for now. I've got the settings as good as I think they're going to get. I've got a few pieces I need to print with PLA, then it's time for the next learning curve: PETG for a few tougher pieces (like the clips for my likely-upcoming OpenForge tiles.)

Couple of thoughts…be careful moving from PLA. I know you’re concerned about offgassing and some of the other filaments can be kind of nasty.

And I prefer a more flexible clip over a more rigid one. Easier on the fingers to add and remove.

I already work with enough chemicals that give off dangerous fumes that I've taken precautions. I actually have a fairly good ventilation system set up in my room. One windows has a dual 8" exhaust fan in it, I have a window I can open on a different wall to bring fresh air in (and can add a box fan if I want to force it in), plus I have taken the time to apply seals under my bedroom door to keep anything that escapes the exhaust out of the rest of the house (where the birds are.)

Ventilation is not a problem, as long as I can have whatever project it is done an hour or so before bed. The thing that makes the resin printers such a problem is both longer prints (which I could avoid), and all of the exposed resin, which is more of an issue.

[Punisher]

I'm using the Elegoo Saturn 2. It comes with an electric air filter inside it. In fact the vent hole comes intact. Looks like I'd have to cut the case to open it up.
Something like that may help you. You could also get one that has a fan and vent and send it out of your window.
Speaking of which. I have started moving my printers to their forever home. My Snapmaker has a vent hose. I need something that the hose connects to and you put it in your window. Basically like a window fan without the fan.
My brain isn't braining. Any idea of what words i cpuld google to see whats available for that? I'm sure it exists but just can't find the words to search.

As for PETG, and anything other than PLA, The settings get much trickier. I'm almost positive that ABS wont work on that printer, mostly because you need a heated bed and an enclosure. I'm not sure about PETG but right off the bat, anything that requires a heated bed is a no go. Get as small of a spool as possible for trial and error I'd say.
I just tried using ABS for the 1st time about 3 weeks ago snd had multiple failures until I got the settings just right.

[Blackhawk]

I'm using the Elegoo Saturn 2. It comes with an electric air filter inside it. In fact the vent hole comes intact. Looks like I'd have to cut the case to open it up.
Something like that may help you. You could also get one that has a fan and vent and send it out of your window.
Speaking of which. I have started moving my printers to their forever home. My Snapmaker has a vent hose. I need something that the hose connects to and you put it in your window. Basically like a window fan without the fan.
My brain isn't braining. Any idea of what words i cpuld google to see whats available for that? I'm sure it exists but just can't find the words to search.

As for PETG, and anything other than PLA, The settings get much trickier. I'm almost positive that ABS wont work on that printer, mostly because you need a heated bed and an enclosure. I'm not sure about PETG but right off the bat, anything that requires a heated bed is a no go. Get as small of a spool as possible for trial and error I'd say.
I just tried using ABS for the 1st time about 3 weeks ago snd had multiple failures until I got the settings just right.

I checked into that first. It works with PETG (and it has a heated bed.)

For the window, I'd probably just get an appropriately sized piece of plywood and cut an appropriately sized hole in it, put a section of PVC (or whatever) partway through it for the hose to fit over, then seal the joints up with caulk (probably silicone.) For figuring out oddball things (something I do all the time), the secret is often to figure out something more common that is similar. Try 'dryer vent window'.

[Punisher]

Wait.. it DOES have a heated bed?
Realizing it's not saying much I would have sworn that it doesn't.

[Blackhawk]

Toasty warm at 60C as we speak.

Also, I'm doing my biggest print to date. A terrain piece that is clocking in at about 20 hours. It's actually designed for 15mm, but it isn't specific enough that it won't work off-scale (and my bed isn't big enough to double the size.)

[Punisher]

Interesting... I really didn't think it had one.
Glad to see you're enjoying it and welcome to your new addiction!

[Blackhawk]

And yes, I did change the knob. I found the default one was a pain to turn when raising the Z.

[Punisher]

And yes, I did change the knob. I found the default one was a pain to turn when raising the Z.

Yeah, that's of the the rhings i like the most...using your printer to upgrade your printer.
Hmm. I wonder if yours is big enough to build your own larger printer. You'd have to buy a bunch of things but you could probably get away with printing the small tjings.

[Blackhawk]

I'm not confident enough in my knowledge, nor in the tolerances of the printer to pull off precision parts.

[Punisher]

I'll be honest, I'm not sure how precise the parts need to be.
I don't think they need to be super precise but could be wrong.

[Blackhawk]

Another quick question (and yes, I'm still bargaining with the universe for ways to pull off a resin printer.)

How long does an SLA printer take for:

• A standard miniature (guy standing there, holding a gun.)
• A large miniature (say, something on a 50mm base that stands, say, 100mm tall)
• A large terrain piece. Say a vehicle or building, in the range of 90mm x 150mm x 70mm

I know that the answer varies based on materials and printer, but I'm just trying to get a rough idea.

[hentzau]

For a resin printer it’s the number of layers on the z axis that determines the time. So a 28/32 mm figure on my photon mono takes about 1.5 hours at about 10 microns layer height.

But where the SLA differs from the bedslingers is that that print time is for the whole bed. So if you can fit 10 minis on that build plate, all 10 will print out in that 1.5 hours. On a filament printer it would basically take 10x as long for the same 10.

Terrain will be the same deal. The taller the piece after slicing the longer it takes.

[Blackhawk]

So, about 1.5 hours per inch?

Again, I'm just trying to get an understanding, not a precise time. I'm trying to figure out if I could finish off projects between getting out of bed and going back to bed. If so, then I am going to look into the possibility of having a 'storage' box I could move the item into when not in use. It would be easier to make/get a box that's airtight if I don't have to worry about accessibility and ventilation.

[hentzau]

Again, depending on resin being used and exposure time for each layer and how many microns setting your layers to. But in general, a standard mini will take 2-4 hours max.

I don’t usually print terrain on my resin printer. Sizes, cost of resin, hollowing and draining all get in the way of me doing resin prints of terrain.

Instead of boxing up your printer, probably better to just drain and clean your resin vat in between prints.

[Punisher]

I think an airtight storage might actually be better than a drain.
You could just get a small Tupperware. Just big enough to fit the vat. Then take the vat out and store it.
Even better to get a machine that has a vat cover to go with it to help prevent spills in the transfer.
Thos would mean much less clean-up.
I thought of this but decided against it especially since my printers are now in their forever home. It's a completely separate unoccupied room that will eventually have its door put back on.
Still doing cleanup and setup but started a new resin print tonight.

[Blackhawk]

Again, depending on resin being used and exposure time for each layer and how many microns setting your layers to. But in general, a standard mini will take 2-4 hours max.

I don’t usually print terrain on my resin printer. Sizes, cost of resin, hollowing and draining all get in the way of me doing resin prints of terrain.

Instead of boxing up your printer, probably better to just drain and clean your resin vat in between prints.

It would only be for terrain pieces that are too involved for FDM - like the one I posted on the last page:

[hentzau]

Right. I do use resin for things like cars and planes. But buildings and the like I stick with FDM. I meant to make that point in my last reply.

[Blackhawk]

Next!

Any suggestions for a basic 3d modeling program to simply cut a .stl file into multiple pieces? I've got a few things that I'd like to make, but the author 'helped' by combining all of the separate parts into a single file to go on a single print bed roughly the size of Kansas.

Preferably something that doesn't require two months of tutorials to make a cube.

[hentzau]

Next!

Any suggestions for a basic 3d modeling program to simply cut a .stl file into multiple pieces? I've got a few things that I'd like to make, but the author 'helped' by combining all of the separate parts into a single file to go on a single print bed roughly the size of Kansas.

Preferably something that doesn't require two months of tutorials to make a cube.

Several options:

Various slicer software will allow you to split models. That would be where I would start, if you slicer allows that.

Otherwise...tinkercad.com is fairly easy to use. Also, if you're on a fairly modern Microsoft OS, Paint3D is free. I played around with it quite a bit but haven't touched it for about a year.